On May 28, 5:54*pm, PeterC wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2009 17:07:44 +0100, wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2009 13:57:15 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

On Thu, 28 May 2009 11:05:49 GMT, Stuart Noble wrote:

Guy Dawson wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:

If the sunlight could be reflected back into space by white surfaces then
we'd help slow global warming.

http://www.climateark.org/shared/rea...?linkid=128556

Guy
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson * * * * * * * * * *I.T. Manager * * * * * * *Crossflight Ltd


White tarmac too maybe.

With black lines?

A negative point against the idea would be having to repaint all the
Zebra crossings.

G.Harman

yeah - white and black.

Change to Tiger crossings and save on the black paint.

MBQ

On May 29, 10:25*am, "Fredxx" wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message

...

Fredxx wrote:
It's not a coincidence that the suns energy is concentrated in the
visible spectrum. *The peak is in fact at green.

Don't you mean it's not a coincidence that our visual receptors are
optimised to the sun's peak output?

I thought that's what I said? *Visible impies our visual receptors have a
sensitivity.

No, you implied that the cause and effect were reversed.

MBQ

On May 29, 8:37*am, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
"Guy Dawson" wrote in message

...
...

Rather than doing nothing and waiting for the perfect solution we can
still do something useful...

However, painting our roofs white is not doing something useful. We would
need to cover a lot more of the planet with cities before their colour
became significant.

Colin Bignell.

But it might help reduce the heat island effect in existing cities. At
least then we can get realistic measurements of temperature trends.

MBQ

On May 28, 8:02*am, Guy Dawson wrote:
I see that Prof Chu says we should paint our roofs white to help combat
climate change.

We have a 1930s semi with a normal pitches roof with dark grey concrete
tiles on it. It sure does get hot in the loft during the summer.

Any recommendations as to what I can use to paint (I assume) the tiles
white?

What about a giant one of these http://www.shadesails.co.uk/ ?

MBQ

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
Guy Dawson wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:

You need insulation between the rafters if you want the loft cool in
summer.
It's not so much the keeping the loft cool but the reflection of
sunlight back into space to avoid heating the atmosphere.

Prof Chu's point is that a lot of solar heating is caused by building
being heated by the sun and radiating the heat back into the
atmosphere. If the sunlight could be reflected back into space by white
surfaces
then we'd help slow global warming.

White tarmac too maybe.

HTF are you going to keep that clean? :-)

Pressure washer with a *long* hose powered by a solar panel pointed at
all the white roof tops. ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message

I thought that the painting roofs white theory had been debunked? I
guess Prof Chu has shares in Dulux.


Oh I wasn't supporting his theory in general - there aren't enough roofs
but, if there were, I was commenting on the principle of white rather than
dark, which is correct.

Painting roofs white is not, on it's own, going to stop let alone reverse
global warming. Prof Chu's says that it would counter act 11 years worth
of vehicle emissions. It's relatively easy, low tech, action that can
be done so why not do it? There's no one big solution that is going to
solve global warming. We're going to have to do lots of things to make
a big effect.

He's just been appointed US energy secretary so I hope he's got some
good ideas!

Guy
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson@SMTP - // ICBM - 6.15.16W 57.12.23N 986M
4.45.4 4.45.4 4.45.4 The Reality Check's in the Post! 4.45.4 4.45.4

In message , Donwill writes
Guy Dawson wrote:
Donwill wrote:

Rather than doing nothing and waiting for the perfect solution we

still do something useful...

Guy

I suggest you go and read James Lovelock's "The Vanishing Face of
Gaia" that could be useful to you.

If you're in a sinking boat do you wait to drown or start bailing and
look for a plan B?

Guy
Unfortunately the boat is already many metres below the surface
because of the inertia in the system.
So it's not worth trying to swim up towards the surface?

Hope springs eternal..............

Spes Durat Avorum - my old school motto


--
geoff

Man at B&Q wrote:
On May 29, 8:37 am, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
"Guy Dawson" wrote in message

...
...

Rather than doing nothing and waiting for the perfect solution we can
still do something useful...
However, painting our roofs white is not doing something useful. We would
need to cover a lot more of the planet with cities before their colour
became significant.

Colin Bignell.

But it might help reduce the heat island effect in existing cities.

That too.

At least then we can get realistic measurements of temperature trends.

Temperature readings are taken in lots of places other than cities. That's
partly how we know about the heat island effect.

Guy
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson@SMTP - // ICBM - 6.15.16W 57.12.23N 986M
4.45.4 4.45.4 4.45.4 The Reality Check's in the Post! 4.45.4 4.45.4

geoff wrote:
In message , Donwill writes
Guy Dawson wrote:
Donwill wrote:

Rather than doing nothing and waiting for the perfect solution we
still do something useful...

Guy

I suggest you go and read James Lovelock's "The Vanishing Face of
Gaia" that could be useful to you.

If you're in a sinking boat do you wait to drown or start bailing and
look for a plan B?

Guy
Unfortunately the boat is already many metres below the surface
because of the inertia in the system.
So it's not worth trying to swim up towards the surface?

Hope springs eternal..............

Spes Durat Avorum - my old school motto.


The problem is, as I see it, is:- As long as people think they can solve the

problem by small fruitless gestures,the tendency is that they will not
face up

to the real problem and that is overpopulation. People need to be
convinced by

propaganda, advertising, the hard sell, call it what you like, that
having a large

family is a no no.

I know that it goes against religous beleifs which are very difficult to
modify, but we have to try.
This is where your old school motto
"SPES DURAT AVORUM" should apply. It seems to me that the one
overwhelming factor is the control of population. YET there seems to be
none, or very little efforts in this direction.

I am not against striving, but it needs to be channeled in a fruitfull
direction not wasted on mickey mouse schemes based on the Blue Peter
school of engineering.

Don

John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
Guy Dawson wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:

You need insulation between the rafters if you want the loft cool
in summer.
It's not so much the keeping the loft cool but the reflection of
sunlight back into space to avoid heating the atmosphere.

Prof Chu's point is that a lot of solar heating is caused by
building being heated by the sun and radiating the heat back into
the atmosphere. If the sunlight could be reflected back into space
by white surfaces
then we'd help slow global warming.

White tarmac too maybe.

HTF are you going to keep that clean? :-)

Pressure washer with a *long* hose powered by a solar panel pointed at
all the white roof tops. ;-)


Long hose no probs, how big a panel we gonna need for a 2.9kW induction
motor?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , Donwill writes
geoff wrote:
In message , Donwill writes
Guy Dawson wrote:
Donwill wrote:

Rather than doing nothing and waiting for the perfect solution we
still do something useful...

Guy

I suggest you go and read James Lovelock's "The Vanishing Face
of Gaia" that could be useful to you.

If you're in a sinking boat do you wait to drown or start bailing and
look for a plan B?

Guy
Unfortunately the boat is already many metres below the surface
because of the inertia in the system.
So it's not worth trying to swim up towards the surface?

Hope springs eternal..............
Spes Durat Avorum - my old school motto.


The problem is, as I see it, is:- As long as people think they can solve the

problem by small fruitless gestures,

You're a newbie here - hardly an argument which hasn't been done to
death here on many occasions

the tendency is that they will not face up

to the real problem and that is overpopulation. People need to be
convinced by

propaganda, advertising, the hard sell, call it what you like, that
having a large

family is a no no.

I know that it goes against religous beleifs which are very difficult
to modify, but we have to try.
This is where your old school motto
"SPES DURAT AVORUM" should apply. It seems to me that the one
overwhelming factor is the control of population. YET there seems to be
none, or very little efforts in this direction.


Err ...
I've been banging on about it for years (I have no kids of my own, but
two by marriage)

I can immediately think of three countries with massive populations

china - one child policy
India - coercive sterilisation
Indonesia (dua anak cukup - two children are enough)

which have tried to control their population growth, with varying
degrees of success




--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , Donwill writes
geoff wrote:
In message , Donwill writes
Guy Dawson wrote:
Donwill wrote:

Rather than doing nothing and waiting for the perfect solution we
still do something useful...

Guy

I suggest you go and read James Lovelock's "The Vanishing Face
of Gaia" that could be useful to you.

If you're in a sinking boat do you wait to drown or start bailing
and
look for a plan B?

Guy
Unfortunately the boat is already many metres below the surface
because of the inertia in the system.
So it's not worth trying to swim up towards the surface?

Hope springs eternal..............
Spes Durat Avorum - my old school motto.


The problem is, as I see it, is:- As long as people think they can
solve the

problem by small fruitless gestures,

You're a newbie here, is that so? and does that prohibit me from commenting?

Actually I've contributed to this group and others under a few
different names over the years.

i.e Eurwil, Lodiehr and a few others, I tried to look them up on
google archive but failed.


- hardly an argument which hasn't been done to
death here on many occasions.
It is very important to get the media and people in general to discuss
the matter, so the more times it's mentioned the better I think.There
seems to be a Media block on the subject.

the tendency is that they will not face up

to the real problem and that is overpopulation. People need to be
convinced by

propaganda, advertising, the hard sell, call it what you like, that
having a large

family is a no no.

I know that it goes against religous beleifs which are very difficult
to modify, but we have to try.
This is where your old school motto
"SPES DURAT AVORUM" should apply. It seems to me that the one
overwhelming factor is the control of population. YET there seems to
be none, or very little efforts in this direction.


Err ...
I've been banging on about it for years.

Well good for you son, keep at it.

(I have no kids of my own, but
two by marriage)


I can immediately think of three countries with massive populations

china - one child policy
India - coercive sterilisation
Indonesia (dua anak cukup - two children are enough)

which have tried to control their population growth, with varying
degrees of success.
At least they've tried, and we must get people talking about it.


Don

The Medway Handyman wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
Guy Dawson wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:

You need insulation between the rafters if you want the loft cool
in summer.
It's not so much the keeping the loft cool but the reflection of
sunlight back into space to avoid heating the atmosphere.

Prof Chu's point is that a lot of solar heating is caused by
building being heated by the sun and radiating the heat back into
the atmosphere. If the sunlight could be reflected back into space
by white surfaces
then we'd help slow global warming.
White tarmac too maybe.
HTF are you going to keep that clean? :-)
Pressure washer with a *long* hose powered by a solar panel pointed at
all the white roof tops. ;-)


Long hose no probs, how big a panel we gonna need for a 2.9kW induction
motor?

The size of a small village ought to do it! (or one could sue John
Prescott as a "pair'a'bollock" reflector)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Donwill wrote:

At least they've tried, and we must get people talking about it.

Given the birth rate in the UK is below the sustainability point anyway,
is this an issue here? (our fastest growing sector of population is the
"oldest old".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 29 May 2009 19:42:41 +0100, Guy Dawson
wrote:

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message

I thought that the painting roofs white theory had been debunked? I
guess Prof Chu has shares in Dulux.


Oh I wasn't supporting his theory in general - there aren't enough roofs
but, if there were, I was commenting on the principle of white rather than
dark, which is correct.

Painting roofs white is not, on it's own, going to stop let alone reverse
global warming. Prof Chu's says that it would counter act 11 years worth
of vehicle emissions. It's relatively easy, low tech, action that can
be done so why not do it? There's no one big solution that is going to
solve global warming. We're going to have to do lots of things to make
a big effect.

I wonder how much environmental damage would be caused by the
production & distribution of all that white paint?

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On May 29, 8:09*pm, Guy Dawson wrote:
Man at B&Q wrote:
On May 29, 8:37 am, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:
"Guy Dawson" wrote in message

...
...

Rather than doing nothing and waiting for the perfect solution we can
still do something useful...
However, painting our roofs white is not doing something useful. We would
need to cover a lot more of the planet with cities before their colour
became significant.

Colin Bignell.

But it might help reduce the heat island effect in existing cities.

That too.

At least then we can get realistic measurements of temperature trends.

Temperature readings are taken in lots of places other than cities. That's
partly how we know about the heat island effect.

Yeh, it's also why a lot of readings cannot be trusted as they don't
come with data on how the local environment has changed over the
years.

MBQ

On Thu, 28 May 2009 21:27:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

wrote:

solar warm air heating can be installed for hundreds of pounds, and
pays back ok if sufficiently well designed.


NT
Bwahahah

In the Mojave desert maybe. Not in e.g.Accrington...

Is the wrong answer.


--

On 28 May, 21:27, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
wrote:

solar warm air heating can be installed for hundreds of pounds, and
pays back ok if sufficiently well designed.

In the Mojave desert maybe. Not in e.g.Accrington...

Works in Canada too, via the chap in rec.woodworking who builds and
sells the things commercially.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 28 May, 21:27, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
wrote:

solar warm air heating can be installed for hundreds of pounds, and
pays back ok if sufficiently well designed.

In the Mojave desert maybe. Not in e.g.Accrington...

Works in Canada too, via the chap in rec.woodworking who builds and
sells the things commercially.

I never said it didnt WORK. Just that it 'pays back OK'. Is a false
statement.