I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan

"Janice" wrote in message
...
I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan
I used some 7'' x 2'' treated joists and 4'' galvanised nails

After a few years there is some minor rotting on some of the inside faces

They are so cheap I will just replace them when they get too bad

I suspect that this will not be for some years yet

Tony

"TMC" wrote in message
...

"Janice" wrote in message
...
I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan
I used some 7'' x 2'' treated joists and 4'' galvanised nails

After a few years there is some minor rotting on some of the inside faces

They are so cheap I will just replace them when they get too bad

I suspect that this will not be for some years yet

Tony
I also have a plan that if ever I need something more permanent I would use
bits of slotted concrete fence posts set in the ground and concrete gravel
boards but have not even bothered to cost this as the timber was so easy to
do

Tony

From a builders merchant or timber merchant, you'll pay about £3/metre
for 8 by 2 floor joists - ask for regularised and treated (the usual
spec) - or even say you're using them for gardening and see if they
have anything they can't sell for construction due to warping or
splitting etc.

Alternatively ask any builders you see demolishing a domestic property
- they'll probably let you have the joists for little or nothing - but
you'll probably have to de-nail them.

I made some last year. I went to a scaffolding company and he let me
have a load of scaffold planks that were damaged for a few quid.
These are about 8" x 2" thick sturdy pieces and are presumably
pressure treated for their outdoor life.
I'm just about to build more beds and I will get some more.

Painters10


I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan

Painters10 wrote:
I made some last year. I went to a scaffolding company and he let me
have a load of scaffold planks that were damaged for a few quid.
These are about 8" x 2" thick sturdy pieces and are presumably
pressure treated for their outdoor life.
I'm just about to build more beds and I will get some more.

Painters10


I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan


Well, sorry to diappoint you..

My wife wanted some. She said 'scaffold planks - you have some left by
the scaffolders'.

Sadly wen I picked them up from tehe back of the shed they fell to
pieces. Rotten through.

then I board some 8x1 boards. They are still running, but looked ugly
and only went up ..8"!

so then her next idea was to fence the vegetable garden, but then that
idea changed, so I got left with a load of split rail fencing. So we
whacked in some pressure treated 4x4 posts, nailed split rail (pressure
treated) to it, and chainsawed off the surplus posts: Result! and if you
leave the posts longer, you can add another rail later and make them
higher. Looks very nice and 'rustic' unlike the sawn board.

So instead of blockwork (which is another good idea: concrete blocks
mortared and bow tied together, or brick) try split rail fencing stock.
Made a giant compost heap as well..currently filled with about a years
output from a pony..

On Jan 8, 4:19 am, "Janice" wrote:
I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

I'd avoid treated timber unless you think the copper, chromium, and
arsenic oxides will improve your lettuces and your health!
I'm using plastic bins. Concrete or bricks or untreated hardwood
railway sleepers could be considered.

Matty F wrote:
On Jan 8, 4:19 am, "Janice" wrote:
I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

I'd avoid treated timber unless you think the copper, chromium, and
arsenic oxides will improve your lettuces and your health!
I'm using plastic bins. Concrete or bricks or untreated hardwood
railway sleepers could be considered.

If all the treatment washed out at the first rains, it wouldn't be much
of a treatment would it?

With raised beds largely it will go straight down the walls anyway. Not
percolate into the bed.

Oh, and plants are pretty good at dealing with metal salts, many of
which they actually NEED for growth.

Don't potatoes MAKE arsenic all by themselves?

On 7 Jan, 15:19, "Janice" wrote:
I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan

Use CCA [Copper Chrome Arsenic] (sorry its not called that any more)
Tanalth but make sure you get the timbers the size you want either by
special request or using standard sizes for your bed
Don not cut it! do not nail it but bind it in other ways or use copper
nails on stainless strapping
Matty is not correct in that the 'A' is no longer allowed and the
heavy metal ions are chemically fixed to the hydroxyl groups and
cannot leach out - that is the idea!
That is why it is OK for kiddies playgrounds
The only removal is by fungi translocating and you are not likel to
get that in you carrots!
Chris

On Jan 8, 10:34 am, wrote:
On 7 Jan, 15:19, "Janice" wrote:

I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan

Use CCA [Copper Chrome Arsenic] (sorry its not called that any more)
Tanalth but make sure you get the timbers the size you want either by
special request or using standard sizes for your bed
Don not cut it! do not nail it but bind it in other ways or use copper
nails on stainless strapping
Matty is not correct in that the 'A' is no longer allowed and the
heavy metal ions are chemically fixed to the hydroxyl groups and
cannot leach out - that is the idea!
That is why it is OK for kiddies playgrounds
The only removal is by fungi translocating and you are not likel to
get that in you carrots!

Some people disagree that CCA is OK for gardens and playgrounds. In
fact many countries ban CCA timber in playgrounds. If there is a non-
CCA alternative I'd use that instead.

http://www.garden-nz.co.nz/forum/30153.html

"Tanalised, pressure treated or CCA timber are all terms for a wood
preservative system based on copper, chrome and arsenic. For years we
at HDRA have advised our members not to use tanalised timber to edge
vegetable beds and make compost boxes, simply because we felt that the
chrome, a toxic heavy metal, and arsenic, a poison used in the
preservative had no place in an organic garden

These worries were confirmed in spring 1997 by alarming reports from
the USA. Researchers found that decks made from tanalised timber can
leach high amounts of arsenic into nearby soil. Samples taken from
beneath treated decking contained up to 80 times more arsenic than
surrounding soil and as much as 35 times the legal limit for arsenic
in the soil. The study found that arsenic leaches quickly from treated
wood..."

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:34:07 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On 7 Jan, 15:19, "Janice" wrote:
I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan

Use CCA [Copper Chrome Arsenic] (sorry its not called that any more)
Tanalth but make sure you get the timbers the size you want either by
special request or using standard sizes for your bed
Don not cut it! do not nail it but bind it in other ways or use copper
nails on stainless strapping
Matty is not correct in that the 'A' is no longer allowed and the
heavy metal ions are chemically fixed to the hydroxyl groups and
cannot leach out - that is the idea!
That is why it is OK for kiddies playgrounds
The only removal is by fungi translocating and you are not likel to
get that in you carrots!
Chris

I'd suggest reading this before deciding if you want to machine any
tanalised timber.

http://www.bancca.org/CCA_Victims/Ac...auls_story.htm

On Jan 7, 11:24*pm, Matty F wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:34 am, wrote:



On 7 Jan, 15:19, "Janice" wrote:

I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan

Use CCA [Copper Chrome Arsenic] (sorry its not called that any more)
Tanalth but make sure you get the timbers the size you want either by
special request or using standard sizes for your bed
Don not cut it! do not nail it but bind it in other ways or use copper
nails on stainless strapping
Matty is not correct in that the 'A' is no longer allowed and the
heavy metal ions are chemically fixed to the hydroxyl groups and
cannot leach out - that is the idea!
That is why it is OK for kiddies playgrounds
The only removal is by fungi translocating and you are not likel to
get that in you carrots!

Some people disagree that CCA is OK for gardens and playgrounds. In
fact many countries ban CCA timber in playgrounds. If there is a non-
CCA alternative I'd use that instead.

http://www.garden-nz.co.nz/forum/30153.html

"Tanalised, pressure treated or CCA timber are all terms for a wood
preservative system based on copper, chrome and arsenic. For years we
at HDRA have advised our members not to use tanalised timber to edge
vegetable beds and make compost boxes, simply because we felt that the
chrome, a toxic heavy metal, and arsenic, a poison used in the
preservative had no place in an organic garden

The point being they are talking *organic*. A lot of things are not
allowed in organic schemes that are otherwise fine.

These worries were confirmed in spring 1997 by alarming reports from
the USA. Researchers found that decks made from tanalised timber can

Decks are horizontal and any leaching could indeed fall to the soil,
but you don't grow veg below a deck.

Sorry, but you've still not presented anything to say tanalised timber
shouldn't be used for edging raised beds.

MBQ

On 7 Jan, 23:24, Matty F wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:34 am, wrote:



On 7 Jan, 15:19, "Janice" wrote:

I am going to make some raised beds in my garden to grow vegetables as the
present soil is heavy clay. I already had a small raised bed made from 2ft
by 6in edging slabs and the difference in yeild was startling. I imagine
lengths 8in by 2in timber would be ok so what would be the best and
prefeably cheap timber to use? And what should it be treated with?

Jan

Use CCA [Copper Chrome Arsenic] (sorry its not called that any more)
Tanalth but make sure you get the timbers the size you want either by
special request or using standard sizes for your bed
Don not cut it! do not nail it but bind it in other ways or use copper
nails on stainless strapping
Matty is not correct in that the 'A' is no longer allowed and the
heavy metal ions are chemically fixed to the hydroxyl groups and
cannot leach out - that is the idea!
That is why it is OK for kiddies playgrounds
The only removal is by fungi translocating and you are not likel to
get that in you carrots!

Some people disagree that CCA is OK for gardens and playgrounds. In
fact many countries ban CCA timber in playgrounds. If there is a non-
CCA alternative I'd use that instead.

http://www.garden-nz.co.nz/forum/30153.html

"Tanalised, pressure treated or CCA timber are all terms for a wood
preservative system based on copper, chrome and arsenic. For years we
at HDRA have advised our members not to use tanalised timber to edge
vegetable beds and make compost boxes, simply because we felt that the
chrome, a toxic heavy metal, and arsenic, a poison used in the
preservative had no place in an organic garden

These worries were confirmed in spring 1997 by alarming reports from
the USA. Researchers found that decks made from tanalised timber can
leach high amounts of arsenic into nearby soil. Samples taken from
beneath treated decking contained up to 80 times more arsenic than
surrounding soil and as much as 35 times the legal limit for arsenic
in the soil. The study found that arsenic leaches quickly from treated
wood..."

Dear Matty
Since 2004 in the EU 'CCA' is not based on that as you suggest as the
A has been removed!
Of what possible relevance is this to my recommendation? I stated that
the A (arsenic of cca) was no longer used.
see http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/sbede...ns/Europe.html
"Since June 2004, the use of CCA-treated timber has been severely
curtailed with an amendment of the European Union Commission Directive
76/769/EEC. This amendment now states that arsenic compounds may not
be used ‘in the preservation of wood. Furthermore, wood so treated may
not be placed on the market’. The only exceptions are wood to be used
in industrial installation that ‘the structural integrity of the wood
is required for human or livestock safety and skin contact by the
general public during is service life is unlikely’. The following uses
are specifically not allowed (Commission Directive 2003/2/EC, 6
January 2003):

* in residential or domestic constructions, whatever the purpose,
* in any application where there is a risk of repeated skin
contact
* in marine waters,
* for agricultural purposes other than for livestock fence posts
and structural uses…
* in any application where treated wood may come into contact with
intermediate or finished products intended for human and/or animal
consumption.

The EU amendment therefore restricts the marketing and use of both the
CCA chemical as well as timber treated with CCA, and will also apply
to imported treated wood and waste wood in re-use. In addition, it is
anticipated that from 2007, CCA preservatives will require
authorisation according to The Biocidal Products Directive (BPD)19
(Enviros Consulting et al, 2004). The EU regulations, however, do not
apply to CCA-treated wood already in service. CCA-treated timber has
not been as extensively used in Europe as it has in Australia
however."

The evidence from Au and NZ does not take into account the differences
in their treatment specifications compared with the UK (8 kgs p m3
versus 4 for a kick off) and I could not agree more with the
delightlfully apposite comment of Huge!



CCA has stopped being used not because of its record but because "The
CSTEE could not establish the arsenic-related risks of landfill
disposal of CCA-treated timber, which is classified as a hazardous
waste by the Commission in 2000, and thus concluded that it was
appropriate to apply the precautionary principle and, in the absence
of proof of harm, reduce the production of CCA-treated timber as much
as possible because it is likely to cause serious harm (CSTEE, 2003)."

See http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalop...us/5_04_08.pdf
Sections 1,3,4 and 6 to see why in Children's play grounds CCA (with
the Arsenic) has not all been taken down

I woould be delighted to see references to any journal that has
produced evidence the PROPERLY FIXED CCA IN SOFTWOOD SAWN (NOT POLES)
treated to EU or UK standards leeches as it was my understanding that
if it was properly allowed to fix in the plant that the metals ions
were chemically fixed to the hydroxyl groups of the cellulose. Please
will some of you budding ecolocial chemists show me that I am wrong in
my understanding? Please, however, no anecdotal blogs,


Chris