A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his driveway,
the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his drve is block
paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a drainage channel. I
have explained to him that the pavers are only a few inches thick and that
the post will act as a very good lever if somebody wanted to remove it (and
the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He says it is only really as a visual
deterrent. My question is are pavers hard to drill and will they split
under the pressure from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No
Nonsense Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I
presume the resin will be a waste of time in this application and that the
bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

Cheers

John

John coughed up some electrons that declared:

A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway,
the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his drve is block
paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a drainage channel. I
have explained to him that the pavers are only a few inches thick and that
the post will act as a very good lever if somebody wanted to remove it
(and
the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He says it is only really as a visual
deterrent. My question is are pavers hard to drill and will they split
under the pressure from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No
Nonsense Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I
presume the resin will be a waste of time in this application and that the
bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

Cheers

John


You're right about bolting to the blocks - if they're bedded on sand
(common), a minor knock on the post is going to lift out the one(s) it's
bolted to.

Couldn't you remove a few blocks, dig a foot deep hole, fill with concrete
and put the blocks back on top. Then bolt right through? The weight of the
block and the friction with the ground ought to be enough.

Another alternative for less concrete and less blocks up might be to take
out 2, bang a metpost or 3-4 bits of iron bar into the ground and set a
small block of strong concrete about 3-4" thick round the top, then blocks
back and bolt through.

By bolting through the blocks you wont have any expansive load on them.

And you could just set threaded rod into the concrete to mount the post -
one less drilling operation. Put blocks with holes drilled back as soon as
you pour the concrete along with threaded rod. A bend at the end of the rod
in the concrete will help assure it's held OK. Wait a week then bolt post
on.

Cheers

Tim
Cheers

Tim

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:44:03 +0000, Tim S wrote:

John coughed up some electrons that declared:

A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway,
the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his drve is block
paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a drainage channel. I
have explained to him that the pavers are only a few inches thick and that
the post will act as a very good lever if somebody wanted to remove it
(and
the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He says it is only really as a visual
deterrent. My question is are pavers hard to drill and will they split
under the pressure from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No
Nonsense Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I
presume the resin will be a waste of time in this application and that the
bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

Cheers

John


You're right about bolting to the blocks - if they're bedded on sand
(common), a minor knock on the post is going to lift out the one(s) it's
bolted to.

Couldn't you remove a few blocks, dig a foot deep hole, fill with concrete
and put the blocks back on top. Then bolt right through? The weight of the
block and the friction with the ground ought to be enough.

Another alternative for less concrete and less blocks up might be to take
out 2, bang a metpost or 3-4 bits of iron bar into the ground and set a
small block of strong concrete about 3-4" thick round the top, then blocks
back and bolt through.

By bolting through the blocks you wont have any expansive load on them.

And you could just set threaded rod into the concrete to mount the post -
one less drilling operation. Put blocks with holes drilled back as soon as
you pour the concrete along with threaded rod. A bend at the end of the rod
in the concrete will help assure it's held OK. Wait a week then bolt post
on.

Cheers

Tim
Cheers

Tim
And tell him to watch he doesn't drive over the protruding bolt
meantime !!!

PS.When you post a reply to this the Newsgroups are shown as
free.uk.diy.home I wondered why my previous reply didn't appear .Had
to change it to uk.d-i-y

What's that all about?

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:44:03 +0000, Tim S wrote:

John coughed up some electrons that declared:



PS.When you post a reply to this the Newsgroups are shown as
free.uk.diy.home I wondered why my previous reply didn't appear .Had
to change it to uk.d-i-y

What's that all about?

The original post was to both groups. Perhaps your reader is only sending a
reply to the first.

OG wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:44:03 +0000, Tim S wrote:

John coughed up some electrons that declared:


PS.When you post a reply to this the Newsgroups are shown as
free.uk.diy.home I wondered why my previous reply didn't appear .Had
to change it to uk.d-i-y

What's that all about?

The original post was to both groups. Perhaps your reader is only sending a
reply to the first.


That seems to be because Tim S set a follow-up:

Subject:
Security post
From:
Tim S
Date:
Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:44:03 +0000
Newsgroups:
free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y
Newsgroups:
free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y
Followup-To:
free.uk.diy.home

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

coughed up some electrons that declared:

And tell him to watch he doesn't drive over the protruding bolt
meantime !!!

I was thinking that afterwards. Bit of scrap wood with holes for the studs
over the top should do.

PS.When you post a reply to this the Newsgroups are shown as
free.uk.diy.home I wondered why my previous reply didn't appear .Had
to change it to uk.d-i-y

What's that all about?

Newsreader wibblings. Might have been my newsreader setting the followup to
free.uk.diy.home. Sorry.

Cheers

Tim

John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his
drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a
drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only a
few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever if
somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He
says it is only really as a visual deterrent. My question is are
pavers hard to drill and will they split under the pressure from a
rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No Nonsense Injection
Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I presume the resin
will be a waste of time in this application and that the bolts are
too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

The pavers are either 50mm or 60mm and neither are any use at all for
bolting things to - your friend may think it will be OK and act as a visual
deterrent but it won't - it won't last 5 minutes, the first time someone
brushes against it, it will be gone, given that the pavers are really just
bricks sat on a bed of sand.

To install it properly, you'll need to take up a few pavers and concrete a
patch about a foot deep and six inches square, the easiest way to do this is
to cut out the shape of the hole with a grinder, so that the BP pattern
isn't ruined, and concrete the hole to the top of the pavers, leave for a
week or so, then use the resin and bolts as normal.

for added strength, prior to casting the concrete, knock a few pieces of
steel into the sides of the hole and leave protruding into the void to be
filled.


--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

What exactly are we trying to deter here?

I can't help thinking that if I stuck a post at the end of MY drive, I'm
probably going to be the one who hits it sooner or later! If you're going
to the extent of concreting something in, why not a gatepost/gate?

Just a thought....

Midge.





"Phil L" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his
drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a
drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only a
few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever if
somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He
says it is only really as a visual deterrent. My question is are
pavers hard to drill and will they split under the pressure from a
rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No Nonsense Injection
Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I presume the resin
will be a waste of time in this application and that the bolts are
too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

The pavers are either 50mm or 60mm and neither are any use at all for
bolting things to - your friend may think it will be OK and act as a
visual deterrent but it won't - it won't last 5 minutes, the first time
someone brushes against it, it will be gone, given that the pavers are
really just bricks sat on a bed of sand.

To install it properly, you'll need to take up a few pavers and concrete a
patch about a foot deep and six inches square, the easiest way to do this
is to cut out the shape of the hole with a grinder, so that the BP pattern
isn't ruined, and concrete the hole to the top of the pavers, leave for a
week or so, then use the resin and bolts as normal.

for added strength, prior to casting the concrete, knock a few pieces of
steel into the sides of the hole and leave protruding into the void to be
filled.


--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his driveway,
the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his drve is block
paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a drainage channel. I
have explained to him that the pavers are only a few inches thick and that
the post will act as a very good lever if somebody wanted to remove it (and
the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He says it is only really as a visual
deterrent. My question is are pavers hard to drill and will they split
under the pressure from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No
Nonsense Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I
presume the resin will be a waste of time in this application and that the
bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

Cheers


Attaching a post to a block paviour is a waste of time, as has been
said. You can either lift some and get concrete down, or you can buy
posts specfically designed for paviours. These have a long metal
tongue that lies on the paving, thus they bolt to several blocks. I
doubt theyre at all secure though, could just be lifted off the ground
I expect.

You might be able to whack some steel bar into the ground instead of
digging, concreting and relaying the blocks, but I dunno how you'd
connect it to the post, nor how vandal proof it would be. I'd go with
a big heavy lump of concrete.


NT

Midge wrote:
What exactly are we trying to deter here?

I can't help thinking that if I stuck a post at the end of MY drive,
I'm probably going to be the one who hits it sooner or later! If
you're going to the extent of concreting something in, why not a
gatepost/gate?
Just a thought....

Midge.





"Phil L" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his
drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a
drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only
a few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever
if somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted
to)!! He says it is only really as a visual deterrent. My question
is are pavers hard to drill and will they split under the pressure
from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No Nonsense
Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I
presume the resin will be a waste of time in this application and
that the bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be
better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

The pavers are either 50mm or 60mm and neither are any use at all for
bolting things to - your friend may think it will be OK and act as a
visual deterrent but it won't - it won't last 5 minutes, the first
time someone brushes against it, it will be gone, given that the
pavers are really just bricks sat on a bed of sand.

To install it properly, you'll need to take up a few pavers and
concrete a patch about a foot deep and six inches square, the
easiest way to do this is to cut out the shape of the hole with a
grinder, so that the BP pattern isn't ruined, and concrete the hole
to the top of the pavers, leave for a week or so, then use the resin
and bolts as normal. for added strength, prior to casting the concrete,
knock a few
pieces of steel into the sides of the hole and leave protruding into
the void to be filled.


He's not concreting anything in, he's putting down a block of concrete, to
which a security post is attached, these posts can be easily lifted off by
the owner, via a key, or laid flat for driving over and then erected again,
to prevent their own car from being removed from the drive....if you'd read
the OP you would already know this


--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

wrote:
John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his
drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a
drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only
a few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever
if somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted
to)!! He says it is only really as a visual deterrent. My question
is are pavers hard to drill and will they split under the pressure
from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No Nonsense
Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I presume
the resin will be a waste of time in this application and that the
bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better
than a Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

Cheers


Attaching a post to a block paviour is a waste of time, as has been
said. You can either lift some and get concrete down, or you can buy
posts specfically designed for paviours. These have a long metal
tongue that lies on the paving, thus they bolt to several blocks. I
doubt theyre at all secure though, could just be lifted off the ground
I expect.

You might be able to whack some steel bar into the ground instead of
digging, concreting and relaying the blocks, but I dunno how you'd
connect it to the post, nor how vandal proof it would be. I'd go with
a big heavy lump of concrete.

The other main drawback with this is plastic gas and water mains which are
easily punctured, not to mention electricity mains.


--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his
drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a
drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only a
few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever if
somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He
says it is only really as a visual deterrent. My question is are
pavers hard to drill and will they split under the pressure from a
rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No Nonsense Injection
Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I presume the resin
will be a waste of time in this application and that the bolts are
too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

Installed a couple of these earlier this year. You can get posts designed
to be concreted in, you can't bolt to blocks.

I removed some blocks, dug down about 18" & concreted in the base, then
replaced the blocks around it. Had to cut a couple IIRC.

I used http://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/?gcl...FUog3godbm0ISg

Maybe you could get a concrete in base from the post supllier.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Phil L wrote:
wrote:
John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his
drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a
drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only
a few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever
if somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted
to)!! He says it is only really as a visual deterrent.

snip

Attaching a post to a block paviour is a waste of time, as has been
said. You can either lift some and get concrete down, or you can buy
posts specfically designed for paviours. These have a long metal
tongue that lies on the paving, thus they bolt to several blocks. I
doubt theyre at all secure though, could just be lifted off the ground
I expect.

You might be able to whack some steel bar into the ground instead of
digging, concreting and relaying the blocks, but I dunno how you'd
connect it to the post, nor how vandal proof it would be. I'd go with
a big heavy lump of concrete.

The other main drawback with this is plastic gas and water mains which are
easily punctured, not to mention electricity mains.



Bearing in mind Phil's warning, how about drilling through the paviors,
walloping in metre lengths of studding (aka threaded rod, allthread),
then dropping the post's base over them and putting nuts on? 10mm or
12mm would do, stainless if feeling particularly wealthy. The end of
the rods could be peened over if there's a risk of an intruder with a
spanner. I'd make up a flogging piece to protect the end of the thread
while hammering it in, and run three or four nuts on too, so the thread
is cleaned up as they are removed.

Less secure than a concrete pile, but much less work.

--
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. )****

On Dec 17, 8:56*am, Kevin Poole wrote:
The other main drawback with this is plastic gas and water mains which are
easily punctured, not to mention electricity mains.

Bearing in mind Phil's warning, how about drilling through the paviors,
walloping in metre lengths of studding (aka threaded rod, allthread),
then dropping the post's base over them and putting nuts on? *10mm or
He would also look pretty silly if the owner calls him back a few
weeks later to say the drains are now blocked and they had to dig up
the driveway to replace a section of drains..

Anyway, if you just whack lengths of studding into soil they will just
work loose and pull out..

This sounds like one of those jobs to walk away from or to spend more
time and do it properly as others have indicated.

Dave

I can't help thinking that if I stuck a post at the end of MY drive, I'm
probably going to be the one who hits it sooner or later! *If you're going
to the extent of concreting something in, why not a gatepost/gate?


I agree, it sounds like a good idea if you've got an expensive and
attractive vehicle to protect, but I would want some kind of failsafe
warning device I think particularly if I had to reverse on dark early
mornings/evening in the wet etc! A bit of a drag having to keep
putting it up & down as well. If it's only a visual deterrent then
maybe it's better to rely on a good car alarm for day time, plus
security lighting for night time? Or how about elec gates!

AJH coughed up some electrons that declared:


I can't help thinking that if I stuck a post at the end of MY drive, I'm
probably going to be the one who hits it sooner or later! *If you're
going to the extent of concreting something in, why not a gatepost/gate?


I agree, it sounds like a good idea if you've got an expensive and
attractive vehicle to protect, but I would want some kind of failsafe
warning device I think particularly if I had to reverse on dark early
mornings/evening in the wet etc! A bit of a drag having to keep
putting it up & down as well. If it's only a visual deterrent then
maybe it's better to rely on a good car alarm for day time, plus
security lighting for night time? Or how about elec gates!

Unless the post is virtually a girder, I can't see it being much of a
deterrent for theft. Joyriders and criminals who just need a one use
getaway vehicle will probably just squidge the post and accept the
consequential bumper damage.

The main use I've seen such posts put to is to preserve a parking space.

Then again, if the customer wants a post, then it's a job - no need to
argue.

Cheers

Tim

On 16 Dec, 14:29, "John" wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his driveway,
the sort that lay down flat and lock. *The problem is his drve is block
paving

Don't do it. Although it's fine for a "Don't park here" visual
deterrent, someone will eventually nudge the post by accident and then
it will lift the blocks clean out.

If you do this, lift a few blocks, clear out a bucket-sized hole and
get some concrete down there. Then bolt long and go into the concrete
(maybe just cast some rag bolts in and leave studs poking up).

Otherwise resin fittings are a good idea into blocks. Otherwise use a
big plastic wallplug, but Rawlbolt shield anchors are unnecessary (for
a deterrent post) and will cheerfully split a brick.

Tim S wrote:
AJH coughed up some electrons that declared:

I can't help thinking that if I stuck a post at the end of MY drive, I'm
probably going to be the one who hits it sooner or later!


or why not half a gate
so pedestrians and cyclists and prams can get in and out
but not cars-
and it would be more visible so less likely to accidentally hit it yourself!


g

Oddly enough, I did read the original posting (Phil) and I've just read it
again, and my question still stands. What are we trying to deter here? (the
original posting does not make this clear). That will surely dictate the
effectiveness of the solution i.e.

If we're trying to stop an older insecure car from being nicked, I'd be
spending the money on the car as you can't take your post with you to the
shops.

If its a modern car with approriate immobilsation/deadlocks it will be
reasonably secure anyway unless your daft enough to leave the keys in, or
easily accessible.

If we're looking at a car that is modern AND desirable enough to be worth
the extra effort and time stealing, the sort of people who will go after it
will go after it, and a daft little parking post aint gonna make any
difference.

If we're not talking a car (maybe a caravan or boat?), then again, a parking
post is useless as the vehicle used to tow it away will be nicked, and other
methods should be considered such as wheel clamps, chaining to ground
anchors etc.

We may be looking to deter someone from reversing a nicked van up your drive
so they can do your house over and conveniently load all your stuff in.
Parking post pretty useless for that too as the thieves will likely have
targeted your house because of other reasons/security weaknesses.

And finally, we could be talking about the ONLY situation where this
solution is likely to be effective - and that is deterring people from using
your drive when they shouldn't, such as turning around etc. My second point
also still stands - you might fall foul of your own deterent and a gate
would be better.

Midge







"Phil L" wrote in message
news
Midge wrote:
What exactly are we trying to deter here?

I can't help thinking that if I stuck a post at the end of MY drive,
I'm probably going to be the one who hits it sooner or later! If
you're going to the extent of concreting something in, why not a
gatepost/gate?
Just a thought....

Midge.





"Phil L" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his
driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his
drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a
drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only
a few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever
if somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted
to)!! He says it is only really as a visual deterrent. My question
is are pavers hard to drill and will they split under the pressure
from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No Nonsense
Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I
presume the resin will be a waste of time in this application and
that the bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be
better than a
Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

The pavers are either 50mm or 60mm and neither are any use at all for
bolting things to - your friend may think it will be OK and act as a
visual deterrent but it won't - it won't last 5 minutes, the first
time someone brushes against it, it will be gone, given that the
pavers are really just bricks sat on a bed of sand.

To install it properly, you'll need to take up a few pavers and
concrete a patch about a foot deep and six inches square, the
easiest way to do this is to cut out the shape of the hole with a
grinder, so that the BP pattern isn't ruined, and concrete the hole
to the top of the pavers, leave for a week or so, then use the resin
and bolts as normal. for added strength, prior to casting the concrete,
knock a few
pieces of steel into the sides of the hole and leave protruding into
the void to be filled.


He's not concreting anything in, he's putting down a block of concrete, to
which a security post is attached, these posts can be easily lifted off by
the owner, via a key, or laid flat for driving over and then erected
again, to prevent their own car from being removed from the drive....if
you'd read the OP you would already know this


--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008