Friends, I know that the powers that be would prefer diy'ers not to
undertake their own electrical work but circumstances force my hand.

I am redesigning the kitchen and my wife insists on having a Halogen
Hob on one side of the room and an oven installed about 2 feet higher
on the other side.

There is one only Cooker/Oven cable entry into the kitchen where the
old oven used to stand which is where the Hob is going.

My problem is this: Having purchased new Cable, Neon Oven Sockets and
ancilliaries how do I get 2 large cables (I think they are 5mm dia
multi core) into the small holes (7mm) equipped with double screws for
power. Obviously I must have power in and then continue the cable
around the wall to the oven.

Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?

Regards, Peter.

petercharlesfagg wrote:
Friends, I know that the powers that be would prefer diy'ers not to
undertake their own electrical work but circumstances force my hand.

I am redesigning the kitchen and my wife insists on having a Halogen
Hob on one side of the room and an oven installed about 2 feet higher
on the other side.

There is one only Cooker/Oven cable entry into the kitchen where the
old oven used to stand which is where the Hob is going.

My problem is this: Having purchased new Cable, Neon Oven Sockets and
ancilliaries how do I get 2 large cables (I think they are 5mm dia
multi core) into the small holes (7mm) equipped with double screws for
power. Obviously I must have power in and then continue the cable
around the wall to the oven.

Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?

Regards, Peter.

Its just about aceptable, but not nice.

Do check how much power each one takes though. You may find that e.g.
the oven is only 3KW or so. And doesn't need such fat cables.

"petercharlesfagg" wrote in message
...
Friends, I know that the powers that be would prefer diy'ers not to
undertake their own electrical work but circumstances force my hand.

I am redesigning the kitchen and my wife insists on having a Halogen
Hob on one side of the room and an oven installed about 2 feet higher
on the other side.

There is one only Cooker/Oven cable entry into the kitchen where the
old oven used to stand which is where the Hob is going.

My problem is this: Having purchased new Cable, Neon Oven Sockets and
ancilliaries how do I get 2 large cables (I think they are 5mm dia
multi core) into the small holes (7mm) equipped with double screws for
power. Obviously I must have power in and then continue the cable
around the wall to the oven.

Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?

Regards, Peter.


You will require two 40 amp cooker supplies, each with 6mm cable back to the
consumer unit.

petercharlesfagg coughed up some electrons that declared:

Friends, I know that the powers that be would prefer diy'ers not to
undertake their own electrical work but circumstances force my hand.

I am redesigning the kitchen and my wife insists on having a Halogen
Hob on one side of the room and an oven installed about 2 feet higher
on the other side.

There is one only Cooker/Oven cable entry into the kitchen where the
old oven used to stand which is where the Hob is going.

My problem is this: Having purchased new Cable, Neon Oven Sockets and
ancilliaries how do I get 2 large cables (I think they are 5mm dia
multi core) into the small holes (7mm) equipped with double screws for
power. Obviously I must have power in and then continue the cable
around the wall to the oven.

Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?

No, it's never acceptable to do that.


What are the max power ratings of both appliances?
What fuse/breaker is supplying the old cooker circuit?

The best solution might be another circuit back to the CU.

Might be possible is one of the devices is low power (=3kW) to take a fused
switch unit off the 13A socket circuit, but the socket circuit might
already be loaded to death with kettle, toaster, washing machine, etc.

If the total load of both appliances is = whatever the cooker circuit is
good for, you might be able to share it, but you really need to put a
junction box in that can cope with 3 cables (one in, two out) and split it
that way.

You might well need a second cooker switch, so that both devices have local
isolation (ie the cooker's gone badly wrong and you're stuck to it while
it's zapping you, it's nice to have a chance to reach the isolator switch).

Cheers


Tim

Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?


Its just about aceptable, but not nice.

Poor advice

Do check how much power each one takes though. You may find that e.g. the
oven is only 3KW or so. And doesn't need such fat cables.

Better Advice

Tim S wrote:

If the total load of both appliances is = whatever the cooker circuit is
good for, you might be able to share it, but you really need to put a
junction box in that can cope with 3 cables (one in, two out) and split it
that way.

This would probably be my first approach if the existing feed is up to
it. Note that you can apply diversity to the loading from a domestic
cooker when calculating the total design load.

You might well need a second cooker switch, so that both devices have local
isolation (ie the cooker's gone badly wrong and you're stuck to it while
it's zapping you, it's nice to have a chance to reach the isolator switch).

Indeed - the switch must be within 2m if memory serves correctly.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John wrote:
Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?

Its just about aceptable, but not nice.

Poor advice

Its based on a fairly deep understanding of ohms law and heat transfer.

The section of 'small' cable is very very small, and although it will
heat up more, its adjacent to both a large chunk of brass terminal, and
a large chunk of thicker wire, and by definition its not covered in plastic.

Because its so small it wont result in voltage loss, and because its so
small compared with sorrunding masses with large surface ares, it wont
heat up.

Rules are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

I stand by my statement, its just about acceptable. I.e. it probably
breaks a rule, but its safe enough.



Do check how much power each one takes though. You may find that e.g. the
oven is only 3KW or so. And doesn't need such fat cables.

Better Advice

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
John wrote:
Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?

Its just about aceptable, but not nice.

Poor advice

Its based on a fairly deep understanding of ohms law and heat transfer.

The section of 'small' cable is very very small, and although it will
heat up more, its adjacent to both a large chunk of brass terminal, and
a large chunk of thicker wire, and by definition its not covered in plastic.

Because its so small it wont result in voltage loss, and because its so
small compared with sorrunding masses with large surface ares, it wont
heat up.

It's not small. There's no good connection to the broken-off
strands. The remaining strands get warm, oxidise and insulate
themselves from the broken-off strands. This works its way
back up the cable, and when done in both live and neutral,
you can sometimes find the eventual failure where they meet
in the sheath, and the combined heating melts the insulation.
Often the heat going the other way will damage the wiring
accessory -- it's a bit of a toss-up which burns out first.

There are crimps available to do this properly, and they
ensure the whole conductor area is part of the connection.

Rules are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

I stand by my statement, its just about acceptable. I.e. it probably
breaks a rule, but its safe enough.

It's a long well-established direct cause of cable and
accessory failure.


--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

John Rumm wrote:
Tim S wrote:
SNIP
You might well need a second cooker switch, so that both devices
have local isolation (ie the cooker's gone badly wrong and you're
stuck to it while it's zapping you, it's nice to have a chance to
reach the isolator switch).

Indeed - the switch must be within 2m if memory serves correctly.


What about people with shorter arms? :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
John Rumm wrote:
Tim S wrote:
SNIP
You might well need a second cooker switch, so that both devices
have local isolation (ie the cooker's gone badly wrong and you're
stuck to it while it's zapping you, it's nice to have a chance to
reach the isolator switch).

Indeed - the switch must be within 2m if memory serves correctly.


What about people with shorter arms? :-)


Natural selection ;o)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
petercharlesfagg coughed up some electrons that declared:

Friends, I know that the powers that be would prefer diy'ers not to
undertake their own electrical work but circumstances force my hand.

I am redesigning the kitchen and my wife insists on having a Halogen
Hob on one side of the room and an oven installed about 2 feet higher
on the other side.

There is one only Cooker/Oven cable entry into the kitchen where the
old oven used to stand which is where the Hob is going.

My problem is this: Having purchased new Cable, Neon Oven Sockets and
ancilliaries how do I get 2 large cables (I think they are 5mm dia
multi core) into the small holes (7mm) equipped with double screws for
power. Obviously I must have power in and then continue the cable
around the wall to the oven.

Would it be acceptable to remove two or three wires from each cable,
then twist them together making one fat cable that will fit the
connector?

No, it's never acceptable to do that.


What are the max power ratings of both appliances?
What fuse/breaker is supplying the old cooker circuit?

The best solution might be another circuit back to the CU.

Might be possible is one of the devices is low power (=3kW) to take a
fused
switch unit off the 13A socket circuit, but the socket circuit might
already be loaded to death with kettle, toaster, washing machine, etc.

If the total load of both appliances is = whatever the cooker circuit is
good for, you might be able to share it, but you really need to put a
junction box in that can cope with 3 cables (one in, two out) and split it
that way.


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB60.html

will easily take two 6mm cables into its terminals and still allow the cord
grip to work. If the switching arrangments are ok you could use one of these
behind the plinth to split the power.

Adam

Friends, thankyou for all the responses it is really appreciated.

I am going to connect the wiring through a junction box so that both
the hob and the oven can be isolated with their own switch, it does
mean that I will have to chisel out a load more wall to accomodate the
junction box but in the interests of safety it will be worth it and
the peace of mind.

Thankyou again, Peter.

petercharlesfagg wrote:
Friends, thankyou for all the responses it is really appreciated.

I am going to connect the wiring through a junction box so that both
the hob and the oven can be isolated with their own switch, it does
mean that I will have to chisel out a load more wall to accomodate the
junction box but in the interests of safety it will be worth it and
the peace of mind.

Remember that you can't bury a screw terminal connection junction box in
plaster.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:43:48 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Remember that you can't bury a screw terminal connection junction box in
plaster.


Of course you can, it's not legal but there is nothing to stop you
doing it


--

On 23 Oct, 20:43, John Rumm wrote:
petercharlesfagg wrote:
Friends, thankyou for all the responses it is really appreciated.

I am going to connect the wiring through a junction box so that both
the hob and the oven can be isolated with their own switch, it does
mean that I will have to chisel out a load more wall to accomodate the
junction box but in the interests of safety it will be worth it and
the peace of mind.

Remember that you can't bury a screw terminal connection junction box in
plaster.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|
\================================================= ================/

It will be under tiles, otherwise it will stand out like a sore thumb!
Peter.

petercharlesfagg wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

petercharlesfagg wrote:

I will have to chisel out a load more wall to accomodate the
junction box

Remember that you can't bury a screw terminal connection junction box in
plaster.

It will be under tiles, otherwise it will stand out like a sore thumb!

OK then, you can't bury a junction box under a tile either.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
et...
petercharlesfagg wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

petercharlesfagg wrote:

I will have to chisel out a load more wall to accomodate the
junction box

Remember that you can't bury a screw terminal connection junction box in
plaster.

It will be under tiles, otherwise it will stand out like a sore thumb!

OK then, you can't bury a junction box under a tile either.


You can if its easy to remove for access.
Eg. if he screws it on.

petercharlesfagg wrote:

It will be under tiles, otherwise it will stand out like a sore thumb!

In which case make the connections via crimp terminals:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Cable_crimping


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

To alleviate any fears of the system burning out I have employed the
services of an electrician who has fitted a junction box inside one of
the wall cupboards and seperate cables to each appliance.

By doing so the tiles will have to wait because I NOW cannot afford
them!

Thanks everyone, Peter.