Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the TV.

Cheers.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but when you say the old aerial will work after the
switchover with a freeview box, it won't work with a TV with freeview built
in? I thought it would have worked.

SantaUK

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 17:55:05 +0100, "SantaUK"
wrote:

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but when you say the old aerial will work after the
switchover with a freeview box, it won't work with a TV with freeview built
in? I thought it would have worked.

Ours works.

"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the
TV.

The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing as a
digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/ either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the
TV.

The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing as
a digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/
either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial




I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)

"George" wrote in message
m...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the
TV.

The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing as
a digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/
either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial




I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)

Go on then.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"George" wrote in message
m...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when
the switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up
to the TV.

The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing
as a digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/
either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial




I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)

Go on then.



Maplins Code: A57CW

"George" wrote in message
om...

8


I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)

Go on then.



Maplins Code: A57CW


That's an analogue aerial with the words digital added to fool the less
knowledgeable.
It will probably work with analogue TV but not very well as it doesn't
appear to be very directional and you suffer multipath interference
(ghosts).

If anything you can use a cheaper poorer quality aerial for digital TV.

George wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
m...
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when
the switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up
to the TV.
The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing
as a digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/
either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial



I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)
Go on then.


Maplins Code: A57CW

I have a A22HG wide band, mind you it was not the current price when I
brought mine and for an RG postcode works brilliant, and a lot cheaper
than the £180 I was quoted to have one fitted and all I did was to point
it in the same direction as the other ones nearby no fancy set up tools
really needed I did buy strength meter A55HJ but it was next to useless
as it to insensitive only having 5 LEDS the difference in degrees
between a led going off was about 60
but as others have said you might not need a new aerial to pick up
Digital just give it a try then buy one if its really needed


--
Kevin R
Reply address works

In article ,
"George" writes:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the
TV.

The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing as
a digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/
either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial

I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)

Marketing gimmic to sell Joe Public aerials they didn't need.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George" writes:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when
the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to
the
TV.

The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing
as
a digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/
either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial

I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)

Marketing gimmic to sell Joe Public aerials they didn't need.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Probably. :-)

George formulated on Sunday :
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George" writes:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"George" wrote in message
om...
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the
TV.

The reason an analogue one will work is because there is no such thing as
a digital aerial, they are all analogue.


You will not get digital TV by just changing the aerial, you /need/
either:-

a satellite box + disk
a freeview TV + aerial
a freeview set top box + aerial

I bet you I can post a URL to a digital aerial Dennis. ;-)

Marketing gimmic to sell Joe Public aerials they didn't need.

-- Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Probably. :-)

The only difference being that in some areas you may need a wider band
antenna to pick up all of the muxes for your own area, because they are
outside the bandwidth of a normal analogue antenna.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

George wrote:
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the TV.

Ay?

You either need a TV with Freeview/Digital built in, or you need a
Freeview box. The aerial is either good enough for Freeview or it
isn't, it'll make no difference if you have a separate Freeview box or
a TV with Freeview built-in.

--
Chris Green

In article ,
George wrote:
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to
the TV.

Really not enough information. In some areas - like most of London - an
existing aerial covers the FreeView frequencies. So in general will work
just fine - if it worked ok for analogue. In other parts of the country
you may need a wideband one to cover all the analogue and FreeView
frequencies.

If you're in a reasonable signal strength area a log periodic takes some
beating - smooth response and good directional properties. Like this one:-

https://www.blake-uk.com/page/aerial_dml

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , George
wrote
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the TV.


There is no such thing as a digital aerial. Retailers will often sell
you a wideband aerial under the guise of being a digital aerial but it
may not be the best type of aerial for your area. A wideband aerial
tends to be a compromised design.

From which transmitter does your sister get the signals?
Type her postcode into
http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe?

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In article ,
Alan wrote:
A wideband aerial tends to be a compromised design.

Not so - log periodic aerials can be wide band and have a superb DP. For
fringe use you may be correct. But most fringe aerials are a bit 'peaky'
in response.

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote
In article ,
Alan wrote:
A wideband aerial tends to be a compromised design.

Not so - log periodic aerials can be wide band and have a superb DP.

I'm aware of that because I have a Blakes' log periodic pointing at a
transmitter 18 miles away where both channel 24 and 59 are required for
digital reception. It has a similar performance to the very large
wideband array it replaced - after 25 years of service bits fell off of
the original aerial

Most widebands being sold as digital aerials are not a log periodic
design.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In article , Alan
wrote:


There is no such thing as a digital aerial.


Yes and no...


Any CAI certified aerial will have a balun. It will also have been proven to
be able to pass the digital signals without significant data corruption.

I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate between
certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because analogue
degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old contractor crap and
still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a digital service.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article , Alan
wrote:

There is no such thing as a digital aerial.


Yes and no...


Any CAI certified aerial will have a balun. It will also have been proven to
be able to pass the digital signals without significant data corruption.

I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate between
certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because analogue
degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old contractor crap and
still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a digital service.

Usual ********.

A 'digital' aerial is simply one with a wide enough frequency response
to suit the digital channel spacing in the area in question.

In many areas the old analogue one is perfectly adequate, if not
especially optimum.

Whether its certified or not has no bearing on either whether its good
for digital reception, or in fact is any good at all.

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate
between certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because
analogue degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old
contractor crap and still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a
digital service.

Thought digital was more robust to some kinds of signal problems?

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:41:42 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Thought digital was more robust to some kinds of signal problems?

The difference is that analogue degrades gracefully. Digital tends
to either work or not work, there is little between other than some
popping noises on the audio and some picture freezing between the
two states.

There is also the question of analogue having far more bandwidth
which means it can cope with certain types of shot well, while the
sort of digital systems we have in mass use cannot do so.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:41:42 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Thought digital was more robust to some kinds of signal problems?

The difference is that analogue degrades gracefully.

Depends on what you mean by 'gracefully'. On a domestic installation in
most parts of the country using the correct aerial this is irrelevant.
Unless you actually like watching multiple images through a layer of snow.
With hissy sound.

Digital tends to either work or not work, there is little between other
than some popping noises on the audio and some picture freezing between
the two states.

Which for most is a good thing.

There is also the question of analogue having far more bandwidth
which means it can cope with certain types of shot well, while the
sort of digital systems we have in mass use cannot do so.

I'm not sure what you mean - but it's not got anything to do with aerials.

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , David Hansen
scribeth thus
On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:41:42 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Thought digital was more robust to some kinds of signal problems?

The difference is that analogue degrades gracefully. Digital tends
to either work or not work, there is little between other than some
popping noises on the audio and some picture freezing between the
two states.

There is also the question of analogue having far more bandwidth
which means it can cope with certain types of shot well, while the
sort of digital systems we have in mass use cannot do so.


Can you explain that please .. "shot well"?....



--
Tony Sayer

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate
between certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because
analogue degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old
contractor crap and still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a
digital service.

Thought digital was more robust to some kinds of signal problems?

It is for some - like multipath - but not all.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Andy Luckman
(AJL Electronics) scribeth thus
In article , Alan
wrote:


There is no such thing as a digital aerial.


Yes and no...


Any CAI certified aerial will have a balun. It will also have been proven to
be able to pass the digital signals without significant data corruption.

A balun is just a balanced to unbalanced conversion device I can't quite
see how it will corrupt the bits..


I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate between
certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because analogue
degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old contractor crap and
still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a digital service.



Not strictly scientific is that ?. More clever marketing for the aerial
industry and a chance to make a few quid..
--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:

A balun is just a balanced to unbalanced conversion device I can't quite
see how it will corrupt the bits..

.... Or reduce corruption of the bits, hopefully. We've done this one
often enough Tony, both here and on uk.tech.digital-tv. If you connect
a coax feeder to a symmetrical aerial (such as the centre-fed dipole of
a typical TV aerial) without using any form of balun then the outer of
the feeder becomes part of the aerial. If you're transmitting, the
outer of the coax will be 'RF-hot' and will radiate, quite possibly
causing EMC problems to low-level parts of the transmitting equipment as
well as safety concerns if high RF power is involved. When receiving,
unwanted signals picked up on this hot feeder will find their way into
the receiver, however perfect the screening of the coax itself.

The relevance of this to DTT reception is that the house end of the
feeder is likely to run near to mains wiring, and usually ends up
connected to mains powered appliances (the DTT box and other TV
equipment). There's likely to be significant RF coupling between
mains-borne impulsive interference - from all those sparking switch and
thermostat contacts, etc. - and the outer of the feeder. The balun-less
aerial connection allows this interference into the signal path, as do
any other 'leaks' in the integrity of the feeder system - notably old
unscreened and isolated outlet plates and poorly screened receiver flyleads.

DVB-T is alas rather susceptible to impulsive interference. It causes
those momentary drop-outs ('blocking') and sound clicks. The problem
isn't so bad as in the early DTT days, but it's certainly still there.
Good RF practice wrt screening and baluns to keep the coax cold is the
best way of reducing it. The change to 8K FFT length that will come
with ASO/DSO will help further, and DVB-T2 shouldn't suffer in this way
since it includes a long time-interleave option (like DAB) to smear out
impulse events in the time domain.

In the meantime, with the present interim transmission arrangements...

I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate between
certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because analogue
degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old contractor crap and
still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a digital service.

Not strictly scientific is that ?. More clever marketing for the aerial
industry and a chance to make a few quid..

.... there's little doubt that DTT is considerably more demanding of
aerial performance than analogue, if you want acceptable results. Part
of the problem is that (some) people will tolerate appallingly poor
analogue reception without complaint, but will take the DTT box back to
the shop if they get impulse interference break-up. DTT reception has
to be pretty 'solid' to be acceptable. Analogue degrades gradually, if
not gracefully, and with a modicum of technical knowledge you can see
what the problem is: noise, multipath, temporary tropospheric
interference, etc. are all quite easy to identify. With digital the
margin gets invisibly used up and then you fall off the cliff not
knowing why you fell. With a marginal aerial system this will happen
more frequently.

Is there such a thing as a 'digital aerial'? Obviously a passive aerial
doesn't care about the details of the signals' coding and modulation (at
least for signals with similar RF bandwidths) - although an active one
with a built-in preamp might. Isn't it equally valid to say that
there's no such thing as an 'analogue aerial' either? More to the point
though, some aerials are certainly more suitable than others for DTT
reception and to that extent the term "digital aerial" does have some
meaning, IMHO.

Wideband or grouped? (Wideband is Group W, so maybe that's grouped
too!) An argument in favour of using wideband aerials where not
initially necessary is future-proofing. Once the 6-multiplex DSO plan
is complete (3-multiplex for most relay sites) there's a fair chance
that we'll see additional DTT services coming on in what Ofcom call
'interleaved spectrum' and these are quite likely to be out-of-group
relative to the original local analogue plan. It remains to be seen
whether the TXs will be co-sited, but if they are then wideband aerials
will be advantageous. Yes, the log-periodic (Benchmark standard 4) is a
good solution.

Further reading:
http://www.cai.org.uk/downloads/Guid...0 Aerials.pdf

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:

We've done this one
often enough Tony, both here and on uk.tech.digital-tv. If you connect
a coax feeder to a symmetrical aerial (such as the centre-fed dipole of
a typical TV aerial) without using any form of balun then the outer of
the feeder becomes part of the aerial. If you're transmitting, the
outer of the coax will be 'RF-hot' and will radiate, quite possibly
causing EMC problems to low-level parts of the transmitting equipment as
well as safety concerns if high RF power is involved. When receiving,
unwanted signals picked up on this hot feeder will find their way into
the receiver, however perfect the screening of the coax itself.

I don't think that is actually correct.
It is as equally valid to say that the coax outer 'grounds' one limb of
the dipole at its feed end, and it becomes a 'reflector' boosting the
signal into the other half. Ie. the 'balanced' nature of the antenna is
a myth. It doesn't care what the potential is of any limb: what it cares
about is the difference. It can be 'earthed' at any pint.

Baluns are generally valid on unscreened unearthed transmission lines.
Like twisted pair.

In article , Andy Wade spambucket@ma
xwell.myzen.co.uk scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:

A balun is just a balanced to unbalanced conversion device I can't quite
see how it will corrupt the bits..

... Or reduce corruption of the bits, hopefully. We've done this one
often enough Tony, both here and on uk.tech.digital-tv. If you connect
a coax feeder to a symmetrical aerial (such as the centre-fed dipole of
a typical TV aerial) without using any form of balun then the outer of
the feeder becomes part of the aerial. If you're transmitting, the
outer of the coax will be 'RF-hot' and will radiate, quite possibly
causing EMC problems to low-level parts of the transmitting equipment as
well as safety concerns if high RF power is involved. When receiving,
unwanted signals picked up on this hot feeder will find their way into
the receiver, however perfect the screening of the coax itself.

Don't tell I, tell 'ee!.. As they say in Dorset..

The relevance of this to DTT reception is that the house end of the
feeder is likely to run near to mains wiring, and usually ends up
connected to mains powered appliances (the DTT box and other TV
equipment). There's likely to be significant RF coupling between
mains-borne impulsive interference - from all those sparking switch and
thermostat contacts, etc. - and the outer of the feeder. The balun-less
aerial connection allows this interference into the signal path, as do
any other 'leaks' in the integrity of the feeder system - notably old
unscreened and isolated outlet plates and poorly screened receiver flyleads.

Indeed as its been doing for all these years..


DVB-T is alas rather susceptible to impulsive interference.

Yep such a wondrous system;!..

It causes
those momentary drop-outs ('blocking') and sound clicks. The problem
isn't so bad as in the early DTT days, but it's certainly still there.
Good RF practice wrt screening and baluns to keep the coax cold is the
best way of reducing it.

A simple signal to noise ratio problem..

The change to 8K FFT length that will come
with ASO/DSO will help further, and DVB-T2 shouldn't suffer in this way
since it includes a long time-interleave option (like DAB) to smear out
impulse events in the time domain.

In the meantime, with the present interim transmission arrangements...

Indeed, the cowboys have never had it so good;!..


I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate between
certified and non certified types.

Umm.. I've just bought a couple of Triax group A's recently I don't
recall any certificates stuck thereon?..

Bear in mind that because analogue
degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old contractor crap and
still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a digital service.

Not strictly scientific is that ?. More clever marketing for the aerial
industry and a chance to make a few quid..

... there's little doubt that DTT is considerably more demanding of
aerial performance than analogue, if you want acceptable results.


Well seeing that the ERP's are so very relatively low then not too
surprising really. Still come the allowed increases....

Part
of the problem is that (some) people will tolerate appallingly poor
analogue reception without complaint, but will take the DTT box back to
the shop if they get impulse interference break-up.
DTT reception has
to be pretty 'solid' to be acceptable. Analogue degrades gradually, if
not gracefully, and with a modicum of technical knowledge you can see
what the problem is: noise, multipath, temporary tropospheric
interference, etc. are all quite easy to identify. With digital the
margin gets invisibly used up and then you fall off the cliff not
knowing why you fell. With a marginal aerial system this will happen
more frequently.

Is there such a thing as a 'digital aerial'? Obviously a passive aerial
doesn't care about the details of the signals' coding and modulation (at
least for signals with similar RF bandwidths) - although an active one
with a built-in preamp might. Isn't it equally valid to say that
there's no such thing as an 'analogue aerial' either? More to the point
though, some aerials are certainly more suitable than others for DTT
reception and to that extent the term "digital aerial" does have some
meaning, IMHO.

Yes I would have thought that the OP would have known that;!..


Wideband or grouped? (Wideband is Group W, so maybe that's grouped
too!) An argument in favour of using wideband aerials where not
initially necessary is future-proofing. Once the 6-multiplex DSO plan
is complete (3-multiplex for most relay sites) there's a fair chance
that we'll see additional DTT services coming on in what Ofcom call
'interleaved spectrum' and these are quite likely to be out-of-group
relative to the original local analogue plan. It remains to be seen
whether the TXs will be co-sited, but if they are then wideband aerials
will be advantageous. Yes, the log-periodic (Benchmark standard 4) is a
good solution.


Indeed. A very good choice if existing levels will permit the usage
which sometimes in the current intermediate climate they just don't have
enough gain whereas a grouped Yagi will...

Further reading:
http://www.cai.org.uk/downloads/Guid...20Benchmarked%
20Aerials.pdf

And then fail to benchmark some of their members and what they get up to
or throw up;!..
--
Tony Sayer

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote:

In article , Alan
wrote:


There is no such thing as a digital aerial.


Yes and no...


Any CAI certified aerial will have a balun. It will also have been proven to
be able to pass the digital signals without significant data corruption.

I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate between
certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because analogue
degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old contractor crap and
still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a digital service.


I'm getting very poor Freeview reception. I expect I need a better
aerial, but I would like to mount it in the loft for ease of access.

Is it possible to get better reception with a very good loft aerial
than with a crappy old small aerial mounted on the chimney stack? I
know that a very good aerial on the chimney stack would be better
still, but I would like to do it myself so only the loft would be
practicable.

Bruce wrote:


I'm getting very poor Freeview reception. I expect I need a better
aerial, but I would like to mount it in the loft for ease of access.

Is it possible to get better reception with a very good loft aerial
than with a crappy old small aerial mounted on the chimney stack? I
know that a very good aerial on the chimney stack would be better
still, but I would like to do it myself so only the loft would be
practicable.


Depends where you are. If you're just over the road from Crystal Palace
a bent paper clip will probably work. If a deep valley in the wilds of
the Highlands, nothing will help!

A postcode checker was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
Bruce wrote:


I'm getting very poor Freeview reception. I expect I need a better
aerial, but I would like to mount it in the loft for ease of access.

Is it possible to get better reception with a very good loft aerial
than with a crappy old small aerial mounted on the chimney stack? I
know that a very good aerial on the chimney stack would be better
still, but I would like to do it myself so only the loft would be
practicable.


Depends where you are. If you're just over the road from Crystal Palace
a bent paper clip will probably work. If a deep valley in the wilds of
the Highlands, nothing will help!

A postcode checker was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Andy

But for some people that is very uncertain. Although living near a
transmitter, its transmissions go over our heads! Hence analogue
reception is terrible. No idea if that will change at all when digital
is installed there - whether at reduced or full power.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
Bruce wrote:


I'm getting very poor Freeview reception. I expect I need a better
aerial, but I would like to mount it in the loft for ease of access.

Is it possible to get better reception with a very good loft aerial
than with a crappy old small aerial mounted on the chimney stack? I
know that a very good aerial on the chimney stack would be better
still, but I would like to do it myself so only the loft would be
practicable.


Depends where you are. If you're just over the road from Crystal Palace a
bent paper clip will probably work. If a deep valley in the wilds of the
Highlands, nothing will help!

A passive reflector at the top will probably help or freesat/sky.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:44:57 +0100 someone who may be Andy Champ
wrote this:-

Depends where you are. If you're just over the road from Crystal Palace
a bent paper clip will probably work. If a deep valley in the wilds of
the Highlands, nothing will help!

The situation is more complicated than that. Local geography is
everything, including trees. One house may get good reception while
the next may need a tall pole to get the aerial over an obstruction.
Moving an aerial by a metre or less may make all the difference.
Television signals are not as good at going through/round things as
FM radio signals are and getting good reception may be a matter of
fiddling.

The deep valley may have a convenient repeater, near a transmitter
it may be necessary to reduce signals to avoid swamping the
television input by fitting an attenuator.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:05:32 +0100, Bruce wrote:

I'm getting very poor Freeview reception. I expect I need a better
aerial, but I would like to mount it in the loft for ease of access.

Is it possible to get better reception with a very good loft aerial
than with a crappy old small aerial mounted on the chimney stack? I
know that a very good aerial on the chimney stack would be better
still, but I would like to do it myself so only the loft would be
practicable.

Much will depend on the roof through which the ærial receives its
signal. The roof will certainly absorb some signal dependant upon its
material - is it slate, clay tile, concrete tile, man-made (plastic)
tile?
Absorbed or lying rain, snow or whatever will affect your signal's
attenuation - indeed, it could possibly slightly affect ghosting
(multipath reception).
Having spent much of a working lifetime (it seems!) trying to resolve
TV reception problems, I would really advise an outside ærial in
virtually every problem case, even though it might involve borrowing a
ladder.
With Freeview you have to consider the frequency range of your local
transmitters when selecting the appropriate ærial. ISTR that there
are three or four multiplexes per area so the appropriate ærial has to
be chosen. A wideband might be the most convenient, but you may get
slightly better gain from the 'correct' ærial for your locality.

Personally I don't have a TV, on account of the poor quality of the
vast majority of most programming.

--
Frank Erskine

Bruce wrote:
"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote:

In article , Alan
wrote:

There is no such thing as a digital aerial.

Yes and no...


Any CAI certified aerial will have a balun. It will also have been proven to
be able to pass the digital signals without significant data corruption.

I think the reason there are "Digital" aerials is to differentiate between
certified and non certified types. Bear in mind that because analogue
degrades gracefully, you can often get away with any old contractor crap and
still get acceptable signals. Not the case with a digital service.


I'm getting very poor Freeview reception. I expect I need a better
aerial, but I would like to mount it in the loft for ease of access.

Is it possible to get better reception with a very good loft aerial
than with a crappy old small aerial mounted on the chimney stack? I
know that a very good aerial on the chimney stack would be better
still, but I would like to do it myself so only the loft would be
practicable.

Yes, it is, but is never as good as one out in the breeze up high and
with a clear line of sight to the horizon.

George wrote:

Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the TV.

If she does not want a box, then she needs a new TV. The aerial
(regardless of type) will not magically add digital reception to an
analogue TV.

Before you go changing aerials, find out what group[1] aerial you will
need, now and after switchover:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/tech/...ils/81plan.pdf

If post switchover uses the same grouping as your current setup, you
will be better staying with your current aerial or one similar to it
rather than going for a "digital"[2]


[1] Aerials were traditionally "grouped" - i.e. that meant they were
tuned to work best in a subset of the full range of frequencies used for
TV transmission. This gets round the difficulty of making a wideband
aerial that attempts to serve the whole range. Group A being the lowest
set of frequencies, B the next, up to Group C/D serving the highest. The
other letters you see represent wider groups, and the widest is the
group K "wideband" that (in theory) works across the full spread of
frequencies. Needless to say, the wider the group, the less optimum the
performance in general.


[2] The ad men seem to have hit upon this meaningless term to mean a
"wideband" aerial. These may be required in some places where the
channel allocations place the different channel groups in non adjacent
areas of the spectrum.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:45:43 GMT someone who may be "George"
wrote this:-

Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Is she in a poor reception area?

Television aerials are, like most things, not something where there
is a simple answer. If you want to get the right aerial study the
pages from http://www.aerialsandtv.com/atvschoiceofaerials.html
and gain an understanding of what you want.

As someone else has said, the first thing to know is which
transmitter the signals come from. From that you can find out which
group the transmitter signals were in originally, which groups they
are in now (note that analogue Channel 5 is often out of the
original group too) and which group(s) they will be in after the
switchover. From that and the signal strength you can decide which
aerial(s) you want.

Most transmitters will revert to one group at switchover. Thus most
people don't need to change aerials. People may want to change
aerial if they cannot get all of the digital channels at the moment,
but they should be made aware that in a few years they may get them
anyway with their current aerial. What follows is aimed at those who
will not be in this position after the switchover, about half a
dozen of the main transmitters.

In strong and medium signal areas the choice is easy, a log
periodic. These were developed by navies specifically to have a wide
response and are superb aerials for these circumstances. They don't
have a downside, except that they don't look like the sort of aerial
many expect. The fact that so few are seen shows the triumph of
something over substance.

In poor signal areas the choice is more difficult. An enormous
wideband aerial may work, at least until the wind attacks it.
However, there is a lot to be said for a more subtle approach. If
the signals are/will be in two groups then a more subtle approach is
to use two aerials, each of a different group, which are combined
into one lead. These can be pointed at the same or different
transmitters, depending on location
http://www.aerialsandtv.com/ampsandsplitters.html#CombineTheSignalsFromTwoAeri als.





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

George wrote:
Hi-gain,outdoor in the region of £20/25

Yes I know a normal analogue aerial on a freeview box will work when the
switchover applies but the sister doesn't want a FV box hooked up to the TV.

Cheers.


That does not compute,Dr spock.

Whether the FV unit is exterenal or internal to the TV makes no bloody
difference!


And I am still running on my original analogue installation here..its
good enough. Especially now they have upped the transmitter power.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Whether the FV unit is exterenal or internal to the TV makes no bloody
difference!

Another question:

I get 'TNT' (French version of digital terrestrial) using an aerial which
is similar to an oblong box about 8'' x 4'' sited on the inside window
ledge. The signal goes via a powered amplifier into a set top box.

Would it be possible to use this type of aerial indoors in the UK eg in the
loft. (to get UK stations I mean) The aerial we have in the loft at
the moment is a 'normal' one

John

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

"JTM" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Whether the FV unit is exterenal or internal to the TV makes no bloody
difference!

Another question:

I get 'TNT' (French version of digital terrestrial) using an aerial which
is similar to an oblong box about 8'' x 4'' sited on the inside window
ledge. The signal goes via a powered amplifier into a set top box.

Would it be possible to use this type of aerial indoors in the UK eg in
the
loft. (to get UK stations I mean) The aerial we have in the loft at
the moment is a 'normal' one

John

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

The suspense is killing me - What is George's sister going to have after the
digital changeover?