We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?

TIA

John

"jal" wrote in message
...
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?

TIA

John

You need one of these

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;js...ch=lump+hammer

jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this?

yes.

Is my thinking along the right
lines?

Yes.

And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?


Well assuming you have a vented underfloor space, one or two 4" drain
pipes, some cement, and a couple of - in my case - 6" drain covers..the
sort of cast iron thingies that you put in drainpipe collectors and the
like.


TIA

John

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order to
feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts in
via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this?

yes.

Is my thinking along the right lines?

Yes.

And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?


Well assuming you have a vented underfloor space, one or two 4" drain
pipes, some cement, and a couple of - in my case - 6" drain covers..the
sort of cast iron thingies that you put in drainpipe collectors and the
like.


TIA

John

I my memory is serving me correctly you used to be able to get telescopic
ones that you lifted up when you wanted the vent to feed the fire. Was 50
years ago though.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jal wrote:

We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking
draughts in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?

TIA

John

I don't know whether you can retro-fit them - maybe you can if you have
suspended wooden floors, but it would be a bit more difficult with solid
floors.

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with under-floor
ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there was an airbrick in
an outside wall, with a metal duct below the screed - terminating under the
fireplace. I think the relevant bits were made by Baxi - but I doubt whether
they make them now!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking
draughts in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?



I don't know whether you can retro-fit them - maybe you can if you have
suspended wooden floors, but it would be a bit more difficult with solid
floors.

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with under-floor
ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there was an airbrick in
an outside wall, with a metal duct below the screed - terminating under the
fireplace. I think the relevant bits were made by Baxi - but I doubt whether
they make them now!

With suspended floors, and airbricks in the outside walls, is it
necessary to use ducting? I would have thought that some sort of
sliding grid to open and close a hole in the floor near the fireplace,
would be sufficient.

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Roger Mills wrote:
jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking
draughts in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?



I don't know whether you can retro-fit them - maybe you can if you have
suspended wooden floors, but it would be a bit more difficult with solid
floors.

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with
under-floor ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there was
an airbrick in an outside wall, with a metal duct below the screed -
terminating under the fireplace. I think the relevant bits were made by
Baxi - but I doubt whether they make them now!

With suspended floors, and airbricks in the outside walls, is it necessary
to use ducting? I would have thought that some sort of sliding grid to
open and close a hole in the floor near the fireplace, would be
sufficient.

Cold feet?

S

Spamlet wrote:
"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Roger Mills wrote:
jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking
draughts in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?


I don't know whether you can retro-fit them - maybe you can if you have
suspended wooden floors, but it would be a bit more difficult with solid
floors.

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with
under-floor ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there was
an airbrick in an outside wall, with a metal duct below the screed -
terminating under the fireplace. I think the relevant bits were made by
Baxi - but I doubt whether they make them now!
With suspended floors, and airbricks in the outside walls, is it necessary
to use ducting? I would have thought that some sort of sliding grid to
open and close a hole in the floor near the fireplace, would be
sufficient.

Cold feet?


The idea would be to help avoid cold feet, by providing airflow next to
the fire, thus (hopefully) minimising the rush of cold air across one's
feet.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
S Viemeister wrote:


With suspended floors, and airbricks in the outside walls, is it
necessary to use ducting? I would have thought that some sort of
sliding grid to open and close a hole in the floor near the fireplace,
would be sufficient.

You could certainly get somewhere *near* the fire by doing that.

But my experience of suspended floors is that you still have a solid base
for the fire itself and for the hearth - so you'd have to tunnel under that
if you wanted to deliver the air right to the point of combustion.

My recollection is that, in my in-laws' bungalow to which I referred in an
earlier post, the exit from the duct was right under the fire basket, and
that there was a lever to open and close a valve to control the airflow.

** Newsflash ** - just done a Google - see
http://www.c20fires.co.uk/fireplace_...es/burnall.htm
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
S Viemeister wrote:

With suspended floors, and airbricks in the outside walls, is it
necessary to use ducting? I would have thought that some sort of
sliding grid to open and close a hole in the floor near the fireplace,
would be sufficient.

You could certainly get somewhere *near* the fire by doing that.

But my experience of suspended floors is that you still have a solid base
for the fire itself and for the hearth - so you'd have to tunnel under that
if you wanted to deliver the air right to the point of combustion.

My recollection is that, in my in-laws' bungalow to which I referred in an
earlier post, the exit from the duct was right under the fire basket, and
that there was a lever to open and close a valve to control the airflow.

** Newsflash ** - just done a Google - see
http://www.c20fires.co.uk/fireplace_...es/burnall.htm

Interesting. If we ever convert the garage for living space, I'd
consider installing that. I don't see us retrofitting the fireplace in
the living room, though.

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Spamlet wrote:
"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Roger Mills wrote:
jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking
draughts in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?


I don't know whether you can retro-fit them - maybe you can if you have
suspended wooden floors, but it would be a bit more difficult with
solid floors.

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with
under-floor ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there
was an airbrick in an outside wall, with a metal duct below the
screed - terminating under the fireplace. I think the relevant bits
were made by Baxi - but I doubt whether they make them now!
With suspended floors, and airbricks in the outside walls, is it
necessary to use ducting? I would have thought that some sort of
sliding grid to open and close a hole in the floor near the fireplace,
would be sufficient.

Cold feet?


The idea would be to help avoid cold feet, by providing airflow next to
the fire, thus (hopefully) minimising the rush of cold air across one's
feet.

Ah, but without that connecting duct: would you not be drawing cold air from
outside, into the *whole* floor space? Thus, trying to reduce the direct
draft across your feet might make the whole room colder.

Incidentally, when I had the floors up in our 1900s house, that had
originally had fire places in all rooms - each with a stone slab beneath - I
found the ends of all the cross beams supporting the floors where they
abutted the hearth stones, had been charred, and, what with some of the full
length beams having rotted where they rested in the wall, this made for a
very springy floor indeed! Moral: be careful, and don't let any hot ashes
get under the floor - which that duct you mention might have been intended
to prevent.

Not by any means an expert on this though. Have similar dilemma after being
conned into the benefits of a flueless fire. Ours may or may not be
consuming its own emissions, but it sure does very quickly use up all the
air in the room, so just tends to suffocate rather than poison. Like you, I
am wondering how to get an air supply to this to make it safe, without
causing the drafts. As the room is also getting musty as a result of the
blocking up of the chimney when this wondrous new item was fitted, it may
look pretty but in effect it has been a dangerous mistake.

S

Spamlet wrote:


Not by any means an expert on this though. Have similar dilemma after being
conned into the benefits of a flueless fire. Ours may or may not be
consuming its own emissions, but it sure does very quickly use up all the
air in the room, so just tends to suffocate rather than poison. Like you, I
am wondering how to get an air supply to this to make it safe, without
causing the drafts. As the room is also getting musty as a result of the
blocking up of the chimney when this wondrous new item was fitted, it may
look pretty but in effect it has been a dangerous mistake.


It sounds as if either the fire or its installation (or both) may be
defective. Winter's coming - I hope you get it sorted soon!

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:54:52 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jal wrote:

We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking
draughts in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?

TIA

John

I don't know whether you can retro-fit them - maybe you can if you have
suspended wooden floors, but it would be a bit more difficult with solid
floors.

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with under-floor
ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there was an airbrick in
an outside wall, with a metal duct below the screed - terminating under the
fireplace. I think the relevant bits were made by Baxi - but I doubt whether
they make them now!

Correct. Baxi did an excellent fireplace with up to four pipes going
to each house wall and all terminating in a chamber under the
fireplace. The idea was that any prevailing wind provided forced
draughts to the base of the fire.

Sadly the controls were a bit lacking and you got anything from a
blast furnace of a windy day to a peat fire on a silent day.

Emptying them was rather difficult as well.

They were normally put into a new build as it went up due to the
pipeing.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jal wrote:

We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking
draughts in via the doors to the room.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is my thinking along the right
lines? And what would I look for, at Screwfix, Wickes, etc?

TIA

John

I don't know whether you can retro-fit them - maybe you can if you have
suspended wooden floors, but it would be a bit more difficult with solid
floors.

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with
under-floor ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there was
an airbrick in an outside wall, with a metal duct below the screed -
terminating under the fireplace. I think the relevant bits were made by
Baxi - but I doubt whether they make them now!

I think you're thinking of the Baxi burnall (see
http://www.c20fires.co.uk/fireplace_...es/burnall.htm for an example).

We've got one. Certainly makes maintaining an open fire easier.

Tim
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

The message
from "Roger Mills" contains these words:

My in-laws' bungalow (built in about 1960) had solid floors with
under-floor
ventillation for the open fire built in. ISTR that there was an airbrick in
an outside wall, with a metal duct below the screed - terminating under the
fireplace. I think the relevant bits were made by Baxi - but I doubt
whether
they make them now!

Yes, of course Baxi still make underfloor-draught fireplaces and
necessary bits.

The message
from EricP contains these words:



Correct. Baxi did an excellent fireplace with up to four pipes going
to each house wall and all terminating in a chamber under the
fireplace. The idea was that any prevailing wind provided forced
draughts to the base of the fire.

That was their recommended installation practice.

Sadly the controls were a bit lacking and you got anything from a
blast furnace of a windy day to a peat fire on a silent day.

Depended on situation

Emptying them was rather difficult as well.

The basic ones were difficult. They also came with rotating asboxes or,
like the one I have, an outside firedoor to empty the ash.

They were normally put into a new build as it went up due to the
pipeing.

Easy enough to put into existing property. This house went up in 1844
and didn't have a Baxi until 1978. And it has 3' thick stone walls,
fwiw.

On Oct 1, 3:11*pm, jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. * I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.


Quite a timely thead for me this as we're having the living room floor
done and I was thinking that now would be the time to put such a vent
in. However, I have one doubt. I remember chatting to a damp
treatment bloke who told me that one of the problems with older
properties is that they get damp as they were (to paraphrase) meant to
be draughty and heated with coal fires. If I bring ventilation direct
to the woodburner, will I be depriving the house of a beneficial
airflow and exposing the house to the danger of damp/condensation?

David wrote:
On Oct 1, 3:11 pm, jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.


Quite a timely thead for me this as we're having the living room floor
done and I was thinking that now would be the time to put such a vent
in. However, I have one doubt. I remember chatting to a damp
treatment bloke who told me that one of the problems with older
properties is that they get damp as they were (to paraphrase) meant to
be draughty and heated with coal fires. If I bring ventilation direct
to the woodburner, will I be depriving the house of a beneficial
airflow and exposing the house to the danger of damp/condensation?

Yes, if it is a crappy rotten old period house and you haven't damp
proofed it PROPERLY already.

;-)

OP he thanks a lot for a very useful and productive discussion.

To do the job right, I'll have to start saving for what Roger (and
others) have mentioned:
http://www.c20fires.co.uk/fireplace_...es/burnall.htm

-- looks great!

John

On Oct 2, 11:40*am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
David wrote:
On Oct 1, 3:11 pm, jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. * I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.

Quite a timely thead for me this as we're having the living room floor
done and I was thinking that now would be the time to put such a vent
in. *However, I have one doubt. *I remember chatting to a damp
treatment bloke who told me that one of the problems with older
properties is that they get damp as they were (to paraphrase) meant to
be draughty and heated with coal fires. *If I bring ventilation direct
to the woodburner, will I be depriving the house of a beneficial
airflow and exposing the house to the danger of damp/condensation?

Yes, if it is a crappy rotten old period house and you haven't damp
proofed it PROPERLY already.

;-)- Hide quoted text -


I'll start drilling into every stone and injecting the magic solution
immediately. After this, I will cover myself in lime mortar and dance
around the perimeter chanting. Then an electro-osmotic damp course....

The message
from David contains these words:

On Oct 1, 3:11*pm, jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. * I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.


Quite a timely thead for me this as we're having the living room floor
done and I was thinking that now would be the time to put such a vent
in. However, I have one doubt. I remember chatting to a damp
treatment bloke who told me that one of the problems with older
properties is that they get damp as they were (to paraphrase) meant to
be draughty and heated with coal fires. If I bring ventilation direct
to the woodburner, will I be depriving the house of a beneficial
airflow and exposing the house to the danger of damp/condensation?

Not sure what you mean by "having the living room floor done."

What sort of floor is it now?
What are you doing to it?
What's underneath it at the moment?

There's many a suspended wooden floor is sitting just a few inches above
damp bare earth.

If that's the case, and it's a wooden floor that's being repaired or
replaced with similar, then make sure that at the very least the bare
earth is covered with dpm which is well weighed down. And preferably
that there's a few inches of concrete laid on top of that. Plenty of
opportunity to put in an air feed for your fire then.

An underfloor draught to your fire will reduce the need for your fire to
take in combustion air from the room and so cause major draughts.

If you have an open fire, however, the "draw" (suction effect) of the
chimney will still take some of the air from the room up the chimeny and
ensure a significant amount of ventilation.

Keep a check on your relative humidity in the different rooms of the
house. Hygrometers are dirt cheap -- if you don't want to buy a proper
one, Lidl seem to be forever offering clocks with built-in hygrometers
for three or four pounds. If your Relative Humidity is higher than 80%
your house is far too damp. Should be in the region of 30% to 60%. Get
a decent dehumidifier if it's over 70% . I prefer to have models with a
built-in heater to ensure they work efficiently.

David wrote:
On Oct 2, 11:40 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
David wrote:
On Oct 1, 3:11 pm, jal wrote:
We have an open fire, which we use occasionally during the winter. I
rather fancy opening up a vent in the floor, near the hearth, in order
to feed the fire with air from the vent, rather than it sucking draughts
in via the doors to the room.
Quite a timely thead for me this as we're having the living room floor
done and I was thinking that now would be the time to put such a vent
in. However, I have one doubt. I remember chatting to a damp
treatment bloke who told me that one of the problems with older
properties is that they get damp as they were (to paraphrase) meant to
be draughty and heated with coal fires. If I bring ventilation direct
to the woodburner, will I be depriving the house of a beneficial
airflow and exposing the house to the danger of damp/condensation?
Yes, if it is a crappy rotten old period house and you haven't damp
proofed it PROPERLY already.

;-)- Hide quoted text -


I'll start drilling into every stone and injecting the magic solution
immediately. After this, I will cover myself in lime mortar and dance
around the perimeter chanting. Then an electro-osmotic damp course....

Thats the spirit. Or get a concrete saw and slice the house a bit at a
time and lay a DPC..

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Spamlet wrote:


Not by any means an expert on this though. Have similar dilemma after
being conned into the benefits of a flueless fire. Ours may or may not
be consuming its own emissions, but it sure does very quickly use up all
the air in the room, so just tends to suffocate rather than poison. Like
you, I am wondering how to get an air supply to this to make it safe,
without causing the drafts. As the room is also getting musty as a
result of the blocking up of the chimney when this wondrous new item was
fitted, it may look pretty but in effect it has been a dangerous mistake.


It sounds as if either the fire or its installation (or both) may be
defective. Winter's coming - I hope you get it sorted soon!

We have CH as well: the fire is mostly for show and to take off initial
chill before the CH gets going. Of most concern is what another user may do
when the house is sold on...

S

David wrote:
As for the floor, it's currently stone
flags laid on ash and earth. They're coming up for re-use elsewhere
and then it's a DPM, screed and several weeks later, wooden flooring
laid on battens. It's just struck me that a vent into the underfloor
space from outside and then a vent under the woodburner would
ventilate this underfloor quite effectively. Thence to Lidl for the
hygrometers... Thanks again.


Bear with me a second. If your final floor is over a pretty sealed up
space with only wood between the room and it, the very last thing you
want to do is ventilate it to the outside. It will get amazingly cold.
By all means have some vents to the room if you must, but not to the
outside.


Put some form of pipe in the ground under the screed, and exit it up
higher than damp somewhere outide, with and upside down U bend to stop
rain getting in, amnd something to stop insects and rodents getting in
as well, and take that direct to the fire area before you do all the
screeding. Oh and if thats what you are doing. put at least 50mm
extruded polystrene or Celotex into the screed for insulation.

On Oct 3, 10:11*am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
David wrote:
* As for the floor, it's currently stone
flags laid on ash and earth. *They're coming up for re-use elsewhere
and then it's a DPM, screed and several weeks later, wooden flooring
laid on battens. It's just struck me that a vent into the underfloor
space from outside and then a vent under the woodburner would
ventilate this underfloor quite effectively. *Thence to Lidl for the
hygrometers... *Thanks again.

Bear with me a second. If your final floor is over a pretty sealed up
space with only wood between the room and it, the very last thing you
want to do is ventilate it to the outside. It will get amazingly cold.
By all means have some vents to the room if you must, but not to the
outside.

Put some form of pipe in the ground under the screed, and exit it up
higher than damp somewhere outide, with and upside down *U bend to stop
rain getting in, amnd something to stop insects and rodents getting in
as well, and take that direct to the fire area before you do all the
screeding. Oh and if thats what you are doing. put at least 50mm
extruded polystrene or Celotex into the screed for insulation.

Thanks - that's good advice. Though the cat won't thank me for
keeping the rodents out.

Gosh. I would like to as well, but that was 12 years ago and you have not had a response. What did you do?

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...re-511177-.htm

On 08/01/2021 22:31, paddy wrote:
Gosh. I would like to as well, but that was 12 years ago and you have
not had a response. What did you do?

You are welcome to post here, but please read the following before
replying to a 12 year old post:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Home_owners_hub

Froze? Found a decent way to read Usenet?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"paddy" wrote in message
groupdirect.com...
Gosh. I would like to as well, but that was 12 years ago and you have not
had a response. What did you do?

--
For full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...re-511177-.htm