I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


The rumour is that it's possibly going to get worse than that, with ebay
forcing all sellers to *only* accept PayPal unless the item being sold
is collected in person. In fact, they're already planning to try this in
Australia...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...tralia_paypal/

But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay to
abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...tralia_paypal/

We've already ditched our PayPal and e-bay accounts. Problem is that
it's going to take a while for other auction sites to come up to the
same kind of mass use that ebay has enjoyed for the past few years.
Well, unless Amazon or Google decides to take a shot, I guess.

Styx

Styx wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that
paypal has ever bothered to comply with that.


The rumour is that it's possibly going to get worse than that, with ebay
forcing all sellers to *only* accept PayPal unless the item being sold
is collected in person. In fact, they're already planning to try this in
Australia...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...tralia_paypal/

But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay to
abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises

And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...tralia_paypal/

We've already ditched our PayPal and e-bay accounts. Problem is that
it's going to take a while for other auction sites to come up to the
same kind of mass use that ebay has enjoyed for the past few years.
Well, unless Amazon or Google decides to take a shot, I guess.

Styx

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.

magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay. Who or what are OFT or MMC?

magwitch wrote in :
Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in
:
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told
ebay to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive
practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the
NR fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services.
I think you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay.

If PayPal is authorised and regulated by the FSA, then the regulation
is to prevent PayPal ripping you off, laundering money etc. What Ebay
does is not covered by the FSA.

Who or what are OFT or MMC?

The Office of Fair Trading and the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

magwitch wrote:

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such €” providing
financial services for users of Ebay. Who or what are OFT or MMC?

PayPal is outside the UK hence not regulated by the FSA.

magwitch wrote:
Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I
think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay. Who or what are OFT or MMC?
Office of fair trading - irrelevant.
Monopolies and mergers commission: again probably not relevant. But
might be

Paul Treadaway wrote:

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/
FORTIES CROMARTY FORTH TYNE DOGGER: NORTHWEST 5 TO 7, BUT VARIABLE 3 OR 4 IN
FORTH AND TYNE AT FIRST. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD.

Tony Finch wrote in
:
Paul Treadaway wrote:
It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I
think you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Is PayPal in breach of any FSA rules? Surely it's Ebay that is making the
change?

In message , at 13:46:25 on Mon,
16 Jun 2008, Tony Finch remarked:
It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

It's voluntarily regulated by the Financial Ombudsman, to save people
having to complain to whoever the regulator is in Luxembourg.
--
Roland Perry

Tony Finch wrote:

Paul Treadaway wrote:

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Based in Luxembourg.

"Tony Finch" wrote in message
...
Paul Treadaway wrote:

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I
think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/
FORTIES CROMARTY FORTH TYNE DOGGER: NORTHWEST 5 TO 7, BUT VARIABLE 3 OR 4
IN
FORTH AND TYNE AT FIRST. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD.

When I was out on the road a lot, I used to really look forward to the
shipping forecast. How sad is that ? There's something very 'British radio'
and calming about it, somehow. I used to prefer when it was read by a woman.
had a more 'soothing' quality, somehow ...

Arfa

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Paypal probably does fall under the FSA actually, since it does provide
a financial service.

magwitch wrote:

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.

So go to eBid. Interesting IT selling related thread here.
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16717996

--
Adrian C

In uk.d-i-y Adrian C wrote:
magwitch wrote:

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.

So go to eBid. Interesting IT selling related thread here.
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16717996

Online auctions are a natural monopoly, for all but the most common of goods.

There are several problems with starting a new auction site.
Firstly - a massive ad campaign might get you 5% of the ebay buyers looking
at your site.

Then, unless that buyer finds what they are looking at, at a competitive
price, without too much hastle, they wander off.

For example, ebid uk, Business, Office & Industrial
Building Materials & Supplies,
has 100 items.
Ebay has 9216.

This masks a more subtle problem.
Auctions are free to list.

This would seem good for sellers and buyers, but it means you get 'spam'.
A buisness, instead of selling one or two lines that are their best buys
drops their entire catalog into the listings.
This shows as their are only about 4 sellers in the above category, compared
to several hundred on ebay, which means that sellers with one or two items
to list on the site don't bother, as this spam makes it hard to find their
auctions.
Add to that that listing an item on ebay is a (relatively) simple process.

Listing on ebay and ebid together at the same time is forbidden by the terms
and conditions - as you would end up not selling one item.

This means that individual sellers with one item to sell are very unlikely
to list on ebid first, wait a week, then try selling on ebay.
Which means that buyers coming to ebid don't find them.

Ian Stirling wrote:
This would seem good for sellers and buyers, but it means you get 'spam'.
A buisness, instead of selling one or two lines that are their best buys
drops their entire catalog into the listings.

The same happens on eBay - look at the people with umpteen identical
auctions for flash memory cards, for example. eBay have recently put a
limit on the number of times you can list identical items, but I don't know
if this is enforced.

This shows as their are only about 4 sellers in the above category, compared
to several hundred on ebay, which means that sellers with one or two items
to list on the site don't bother, as this spam makes it hard to find their
auctions.

It depends. If the site is categorised well, that helps. But don't people
do a lot by searches these days? And eBay's filtering is usually quite
good.

I'd rate it an advantage of eBay that people put all their inventory up -
makes looking for obscure things like a grommet for a 1975 something much
easier. In the old days you'd have to ring round all the something dealers
who'd have to look in the back of their drawers and hope you struck lucky.
Even if you did you'd pay the earth for it.

Listing on ebay and ebid together at the same time is forbidden by the terms
and conditions - as you would end up not selling one item.

It is? There are plenty of listings for, say, used cars which say the item
is listed elsewhere. And quite a few of them get ended before the auction
close because of that. Or is that a special exception for vehicles?

This means that individual sellers with one item to sell are very unlikely
to list on ebid first, wait a week, then try selling on ebay.
Which means that buyers coming to ebid don't find them.

I think the problem is that if there aren't enough punters, no-one lists at
99p for fear they won't get any interest. So you go to the site and see
lots of things at silly prices, and leave. So you don't come back, the item
doesn't sell, which doesn't encourage the seller to try again.

Theo

magwitch wrote:

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.


And Yahoo! did the same a couple of years ago, although Yahoo!
auctions were still available recently in other countries than this.

* Styx wrote:
The rumour is that it's possibly going to get worse than that

Yes you will soon have to use Paypal to pay the Ferryman.

"Styx" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

What's the problem with that?

Mary
who doesn't buy or sell through e-bay

It happens that Mary Fisher formulated :
What's the problem with that?

Mary
who doesn't buy or sell through e-bay

A seller pays ebay to list the item, then he/she pays a second time for
the transaction via Paypal. It all adds to the cost of selling anything
and obviously cost has to be passed onto the buyer.

Whilst the seller at the moment only has to offer Paypal, as Paypal
makes the transaction so easy, most buyers will opt for it.

Harry, who does buy on ebay and even occasionally sells.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:21:20 UTC, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Mary Fisher formulated :
What's the problem with that?

Mary
who doesn't buy or sell through e-bay

A seller pays ebay to list the item, then he/she pays a second time for
the transaction via Paypal. It all adds to the cost of selling anything
and obviously cost has to be passed onto the buyer.

And the seller pays a third time - the eBay final value fee.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 16 Jun 2008 23:24:34 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:21:20 UTC, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Mary Fisher formulated :
What's the problem with that?

Mary
who doesn't buy or sell through e-bay

A seller pays ebay to list the item, then he/she pays a second time for
the transaction via Paypal. It all adds to the cost of selling anything
and obviously cost has to be passed onto the buyer.

And the seller pays a third time - the eBay final value fee.

Add to that a fee from withdrawing money from your Paypal account.

BTW: I thought ebay had banned charging extra for Paypal
transactions?

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
k...
It happens that Mary Fisher formulated :
What's the problem with that?

Mary
who doesn't buy or sell through e-bay

A seller pays ebay to list the item, then he/she pays a second time for
the transaction via Paypal. It all adds to the cost of selling anything
and obviously cost has to be passed onto the buyer.

But surely buyers and sellers know all this before they buy or sell?

If they don't the deserve all they get.

Paypal and ebay are the same company, virtually. It makes sense to keep
everything in-house.

Mary

On Jun 17, 9:25 am, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message

k...

It happens that Mary Fisher formulated :
What's the problem with that?

Mary
who doesn't buy or sell through e-bay

A seller pays ebay to list the item, then he/she pays a second time for
the transaction via Paypal. It all adds to the cost of selling anything
and obviously cost has to be passed onto the buyer.

But surely buyers and sellers know all this before they buy or sell?

They do, indeed.


If they don't the deserve all they get.

Indeed.

MBQ

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

That stinks. I never sell on ebay but I sometimes buy but only from people
who offer other pament methods. I've noticed that the number of people only
taking payment by Paypal seems to have increased considerably recently. I
imagine this will exacerbate the problem.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

Dunno. It's not really a monopoly, is it. If they said NOTHING apart from
paypal I'd have thought it might be...

"The Dim Reaper" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

That stinks. I never sell on ebay but I sometimes buy but only from
people who offer other pament methods. I've noticed that the number of
people only taking payment by Paypal seems to have increased considerably
recently. I imagine this will exacerbate the problem.

Hopefully the roll-out of 'instant' Bank Transfers will make this method of
payment more common.

Germany and Sweden have had this for many years and almost no-one (buyer or
seller) expects a remote payment to be made any other way.

tim

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "tims next home"
saying something like:

Hopefully the roll-out of 'instant' Bank Transfers will make this method of
payment more common.

Germany and Sweden have had this for many years and almost no-one (buyer or
seller) expects a remote payment to be made any other way.

ding!

It's a pleasure dealing with German sellers - a quick IBAN and goods in
the post. Unlike PP, you can be sure who you're dealing with via IBAN.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

And, PayPal will hold onto the payment for 21 days or until the buyer
has received the item *and* has left positive feedback.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

A mass boycott is required here. I will not be selling again.

"magwitch" wrote in message
...

A mass boycott is required here. I will not be selling again.


I don't think you need worry about that. All of the unusual trinkets and
great finds are now gone.

Where previously there were categories that were brimming with private
sellers, there's now just a small handful of items, and the rest are
companies. Not cheap either, and loads of unreasonable T&Cs.

Aly wrote:
"magwitch" wrote in message
...
A mass boycott is required here. I will not be selling again.


I don't think you need worry about that. All of the unusual trinkets and
great finds are now gone.

Ebay and PayPal's loss will be the local car boot sale/Oxfam's gain ;-)

Where previously there were categories that were brimming with private
sellers, there's now just a small handful of items, and the rest are
companies. Not cheap either, and loads of unreasonable T&Cs.

I haven't found that to be particularly true for the stuff I'm
interested in... I mainly use it to recycle my wardrobe, buy some sell some.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

I don't put funds into my PP account and when I purchase an item I do it
through my CC into PP this way my account is safe.

You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.

George wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

I don't put funds into my PP account and when I purchase an item I do it
through my CC into PP this way my account is safe.

You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.


You poor naive innocent. I used to be like you until last summer.

"magwitch" wrote in message
...
George wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

I don't put funds into my PP account and when I purchase an item I do it
through my CC into PP this way my account is safe.

You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.


You poor naive innocent. I used to be like you until last summer.

What happened to you last summer?


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

"George" wrote in message
...


You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.



eCheques? Of which you have ABSOLUTELY no control over? 14-days to clear.

In uk.d-i-y George wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message

How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.

I see,so it won't work the otherway round? :-) sorry but that doesn't carry
weight or brick in this case.

In uk.d-i-y George wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message

How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.

I see,so it won't work the otherway round? :-) sorry but that doesn't carry
weight or brick in this case.

No.
Seller sends buyer brick - then buyer just claims it's not as described,
and returns brick, paypal refunds as before.

Ian Stirling wrote:
In uk.d-i-y George wrote:
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.
I see,so it won't work the otherway round? :-) sorry but that doesn't carry
weight or brick in this case.

No.
Seller sends buyer brick - then buyer just claims it's not as described,
and returns brick, paypal refunds as before.


Seller claims it was a gold plated coffee bar.

Paypal holds onto everyone's money for ever.

The point about paypal is they have fixed it so that they *never ever lose*.

Ian Stirling wrote:
In uk.d-i-y George wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.

Precisely.

Better still send teh item that was broken that you bought the new one
to replace, back, instead of the brick.