I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


The rumour is that it's possibly going to get worse than that, with ebay
forcing all sellers to *only* accept PayPal unless the item being sold
is collected in person. In fact, they're already planning to try this in
Australia...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...tralia_paypal/

But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay to
abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...tralia_paypal/

We've already ditched our PayPal and e-bay accounts. Problem is that
it's going to take a while for other auction sites to come up to the
same kind of mass use that ebay has enjoyed for the past few years.
Well, unless Amazon or Google decides to take a shot, I guess.

Styx

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

That stinks. I never sell on ebay but I sometimes buy but only from people
who offer other pament methods. I've noticed that the number of people only
taking payment by Paypal seems to have increased considerably recently. I
imagine this will exacerbate the problem.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

Dunno. It's not really a monopoly, is it. If they said NOTHING apart from
paypal I'd have thought it might be...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

And, PayPal will hold onto the payment for 21 days or until the buyer
has received the item *and* has left positive feedback.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

A mass boycott is required here. I will not be selling again.

Styx wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that
paypal has ever bothered to comply with that.


The rumour is that it's possibly going to get worse than that, with ebay
forcing all sellers to *only* accept PayPal unless the item being sold
is collected in person. In fact, they're already planning to try this in
Australia...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...tralia_paypal/

But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay to
abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises

And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...tralia_paypal/

We've already ditched our PayPal and e-bay accounts. Problem is that
it's going to take a while for other auction sites to come up to the
same kind of mass use that ebay has enjoyed for the past few years.
Well, unless Amazon or Google decides to take a shot, I guess.

Styx

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.

magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay. Who or what are OFT or MMC?

"magwitch" wrote in message
...

A mass boycott is required here. I will not be selling again.


I don't think you need worry about that. All of the unusual trinkets and
great finds are now gone.

Where previously there were categories that were brimming with private
sellers, there's now just a small handful of items, and the rest are
companies. Not cheap either, and loads of unreasonable T&Cs.

magwitch wrote in :
Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in
:
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told
ebay to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive
practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the
NR fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services.
I think you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay.

If PayPal is authorised and regulated by the FSA, then the regulation
is to prevent PayPal ripping you off, laundering money etc. What Ebay
does is not covered by the FSA.

Who or what are OFT or MMC?

The Office of Fair Trading and the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

I don't put funds into my PP account and when I purchase an item I do it
through my CC into PP this way my account is safe.

You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.

Aly wrote:
"magwitch" wrote in message
...
A mass boycott is required here. I will not be selling again.


I don't think you need worry about that. All of the unusual trinkets and
great finds are now gone.

Ebay and PayPal's loss will be the local car boot sale/Oxfam's gain ;-)

Where previously there were categories that were brimming with private
sellers, there's now just a small handful of items, and the rest are
companies. Not cheap either, and loads of unreasonable T&Cs.

I haven't found that to be particularly true for the stuff I'm
interested in... I mainly use it to recycle my wardrobe, buy some sell some.

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in
:
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told
ebay to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive
practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the
NR fiasco?
It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services.
I think you mean the OFT or MMC.
And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay.

If PayPal is authorised and regulated by the FSA, then the regulation
is to prevent PayPal ripping you off, laundering money etc. What Ebay
does is not covered by the FSA.

Who or what are OFT or MMC?

The Office of Fair Trading and the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

So both would view what Ebay/PayPal (same company btw) are doing with
some concern I'd hope.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/we...utside#payment

Paul Treadaway wrote:

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/
FORTIES CROMARTY FORTH TYNE DOGGER: NORTHWEST 5 TO 7, BUT VARIABLE 3 OR 4 IN
FORTH AND TYNE AT FIRST. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SHOWERS. MODERATE OR GOOD.

George wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

I don't put funds into my PP account and when I purchase an item I do it
through my CC into PP this way my account is safe.

You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.


You poor naive innocent. I used to be like you until last summer.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.
[...]
Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

To be exact, an unlawful restraint of trade, unless my understanding of
the EU regs is completely wrong.

Jon
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
with 'green-lines'.

"George" wrote in message
...


You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.



eCheques? Of which you have ABSOLUTELY no control over? 14-days to clear.

In article 3,
Paul Treadaway writes:
magwitch wrote in :
Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in
:
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told
ebay to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive
practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the
NR fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services.
I think you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay.

If PayPal is authorised and regulated by the FSA, then the regulation
is to prevent PayPal ripping you off, laundering money etc. What Ebay
does is not covered by the FSA.

PayPal moved out of the UK, so FSA provides you no protection anymore.
Also, UK law didn't allow it to become a real bank, which it wanted to.
Card companies also warned they were to start treating PayPal payments
as cash advances, so you get no card protection. One or two had also
started to charge the cash advance fee on PayPal transactions (ISTR
Nationwide was one such).

Who or what are OFT or MMC?

The Office of Fair Trading and the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

Monopolies and Mergers Commission was replaced by the Competition
Commission some years back. I think they got fed up with people
complaining that there was only one Monopolies and Mergers Commission ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

magwitch wrote in
:
Paul Treadaway wrote:
The Office of Fair Trading and the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

So both would view what Ebay/PayPal (same company btw) are doing with
some concern I'd hope.

I don't know, why not raise it with them?

http://www.oft.gov.uk

Tony Finch wrote in
:
Paul Treadaway wrote:
It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I
think you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Is PayPal in breach of any FSA rules? Surely it's Ebay that is making the
change?

magwitch wrote:

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.

So go to eBid. Interesting IT selling related thread here.
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16717996

--
Adrian C

* Styx wrote:
The rumour is that it's possibly going to get worse than that

Yes you will soon have to use Paypal to pay the Ferryman.

magwitch wrote:

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.


And Yahoo! did the same a couple of years ago, although Yahoo!
auctions were still available recently in other countries than this.

"magwitch" wrote in message
...
George wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

I don't put funds into my PP account and when I purchase an item I do it
through my CC into PP this way my account is safe.

You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.


You poor naive innocent. I used to be like you until last summer.

What happened to you last summer?


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In message , at 13:46:25 on Mon,
16 Jun 2008, Tony Finch remarked:
It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

It's voluntarily regulated by the Financial Ombudsman, to save people
having to complain to whoever the regulator is in Luxembourg.
--
Roland Perry

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

Having dealt with a large number of twerps who think that UK residents can
accept cheques (in US dollars) drawn on US banks despite them clearly being
endorsed to the contrary, I am happy to play eBay's game with a system that
works.

--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."

In uk.d-i-y George wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.

George wrote:


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.

Have you tried getting your money back? I have.

On one occassion PayPal insisted that I gave the supplier a chance to
deliver since the supplier blamed postal problems for non-delivery. Then
when I had given a reasonable period and the item still had not been
delivered PayPal refused to reimburse me because I was "too late to
claim a refund". The fact that I had notified them within the time
allowed that I had a problem and that PayPal had suggested a delay was
casually ignored.

On another occasion my wife paid for courier services using PayPal. The
Courier charged for four deliveries, but was contracted only to supply
one. Paypal tried all sorts of techniques to claim the cock-up was our
problem, but eventually admitted that we had not received the services
billed. Then they refunded a small fraction of the total payment taking
a large "administration fee".

magwitch wrote:

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such €” providing
financial services for users of Ebay. Who or what are OFT or MMC?

PayPal is outside the UK hence not regulated by the FSA.

Tony Finch wrote:

Paul Treadaway wrote:

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Based in Luxembourg.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message

How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.

I see,so it won't work the otherway round? :-) sorry but that doesn't carry
weight or brick in this case.

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

Paypal probably does fall under the FSA actually, since it does provide
a financial service.

magwitch wrote:
Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told ebay
to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the NR
fiasco?

It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I
think
you mean the OFT or MMC.

And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay. Who or what are OFT or MMC?
Office of fair trading - irrelevant.
Monopolies and mergers commission: again probably not relevant. But
might be

Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in :
Paul Treadaway wrote:
magwitch wrote in
:
But the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have told
ebay to abandon the plans on the grounds of anti-competitive
practises
And what's our *useless* FSA doing? Still trying to catch up on the
NR fiasco?
It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services.
I think you mean the OFT or MMC.
And PayPal is a bank or like to style themselves as such — providing
financial services for users of Ebay.

If PayPal is authorised and regulated by the FSA, then the regulation
is to prevent PayPal ripping you off, laundering money etc. What Ebay
does is not covered by the FSA.

The problem is, that it isn't covered by the FSA, being based curiously
in somewhere across a stretch of water.


Who or what are OFT or MMC?

The Office of Fair Trading and the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

Paul Treadaway wrote:
Tony Finch wrote in
:
Paul Treadaway wrote:
It's nothing to do with the FSA, which regulates financial services. I
think you mean the OFT or MMC.
Isn't PayPal a financial service?

Is PayPal in breach of any FSA rules?

Several.


Surely it's Ebay that is making the
change?

Paypal IS ebay, more or less.

George wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.


Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.


Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.

ROFLMAO!!

Get your money back? from Paypal?


Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

I don't put funds into my PP account and when I purchase an item I do it
through my CC into PP this way my account is safe.

You're the one that loses out if you dont like it.


Indeed.
That's why I don't like it.

Ian Stirling wrote:
In uk.d-i-y George wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

Isn't this a monopoly issues? And illegal under EU law..not that paypal
has ever bothered to comply with that.

Does it matter? I'd rather pay to a seller through PP this way I know its
been recieved and can get my money back.
Sending a cheque or money order takes more time and PP is instant,the
cheque/MO could get lost in the post which causes ore delay and I've been
there,done that in y early stages of buying off ebay.

How to get free stuff from ebay.

Buy item, pay through paypal, and get it.

Claim item is not as described.
Post a brick back to the seller (tracked).

As you can show paypal a tracking number that was in fact delivered to the
seller, they will now reverse the transaction.

Sell item down pub.

If police arrive, say that the seller is lying, and trying to get out
of giving his refund.

Precisely.

Better still send teh item that was broken that you bought the new one
to replace, back, instead of the brick.

Brian Watson wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I just noticed one can no longer sell on Ebay without offering PayPal.

Well that's the end of it as far as I am concerned, as a seller.

Having dealt with a large number of twerps who think that UK residents can
accept cheques (in US dollars) drawn on US banks despite them clearly being
endorsed to the contrary, I am happy to play eBay's game with a system that
works.

I have had no problem in cashing US dollar cheques.

In uk.d-i-y Adrian C wrote:
magwitch wrote:

Google have already signed an agreement with Ebay stating that Google
will not set up an auction site.

So go to eBid. Interesting IT selling related thread here.
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16717996

Online auctions are a natural monopoly, for all but the most common of goods.

There are several problems with starting a new auction site.
Firstly - a massive ad campaign might get you 5% of the ebay buyers looking
at your site.

Then, unless that buyer finds what they are looking at, at a competitive
price, without too much hastle, they wander off.

For example, ebid uk, Business, Office & Industrial
Building Materials & Supplies,
has 100 items.
Ebay has 9216.

This masks a more subtle problem.
Auctions are free to list.

This would seem good for sellers and buyers, but it means you get 'spam'.
A buisness, instead of selling one or two lines that are their best buys
drops their entire catalog into the listings.
This shows as their are only about 4 sellers in the above category, compared
to several hundred on ebay, which means that sellers with one or two items
to list on the site don't bother, as this spam makes it hard to find their
auctions.
Add to that that listing an item on ebay is a (relatively) simple process.

Listing on ebay and ebid together at the same time is forbidden by the terms
and conditions - as you would end up not selling one item.

This means that individual sellers with one item to sell are very unlikely
to list on ebid first, wait a week, then try selling on ebay.
Which means that buyers coming to ebid don't find them.

In article ,
(Steve Firth) writes:
Have you tried getting your money back? I have.

On one occassion PayPal insisted that I gave the supplier a chance to
deliver since the supplier blamed postal problems for non-delivery. Then
when I had given a reasonable period and the item still had not been
delivered PayPal refused to reimburse me because I was "too late to
claim a refund". The fact that I had notified them within the time
allowed that I had a problem and that PayPal had suggested a delay was
casually ignored.

On another occasion my wife paid for courier services using PayPal. The
Courier charged for four deliveries, but was contracted only to supply
one. Paypal tried all sorts of techniques to claim the cock-up was our
problem, but eventually admitted that we had not received the services
billed. Then they refunded a small fraction of the total payment taking
a large "administration fee".

One of my staff resorted to the courts to get his money back
from PayPal, but that was when they were still in this country.
He doesn't stand for any nonsense when it comes to anyone
pulling a fast one on him, and does seem to end up in court
a couple of times a year. Don't think he's ever lost a case.
His cases were always a topic of conversation in the team,
and we tried to persuade him to start a blog, but he hasn't.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Steve Firth" wrote in message


On another occasion my wife paid for courier services using PayPal. The
Courier charged for four deliveries, but was contracted only to supply
one. Paypal tried all sorts of techniques to claim the cock-up was our
problem, but eventually admitted that we had not received the services
billed. Then they refunded a small fraction of the total payment taking
a large "administration fee".

Lets be fair here,isn't this a problem of yours and the Courier to sort out
and not PP's? ie you should be claiming from the Courier.