Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

It is a concrete filled tray type with 4 tiny holes in the corners.
I'm gonna try to hire something to lift it on saturday.

Has anyone got a link to what a drain cover lifter looks like?
It wasn't greased when installed.
Is it likely to be problematic to lift it?
--

blackbat /\x/\

blackbat wrote:
Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

It is a concrete filled tray type with 4 tiny holes in the corners.
I'm gonna try to hire something to lift it on saturday.

Has anyone got a link to what a drain cover lifter looks like?
It wasn't greased when installed.
Is it likely to be problematic to lift it?

Not at all...have you tried a few screwdrivers in two corners closest to
each other?
With a colleague, lever one side up and get the oppo to stick something
underneath like a spade etc, then continue with the drivers etc until it's
off.

Also, the more common causes of blockages a

1) using kitchen roll instead of toilet roll - it doesn't break up.
2) 'flushable' baby wipes (kandoo etc) - see above.
3) 'flushable' brushes, the disposable use once variety, - see above.
4) kids flushing unbreakupable items such as dolls, pencils, pyjamas etc.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:07:13 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:


Not at all...have you tried a few screwdrivers in two corners closest to
each other?

Don't think that would work - it weighs a ton and 'looks' stuck.
And I don't want to damage any threads or whatever is in the holes.
--

blackbat /\x/\

blackbat wrote:
Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

It is a concrete filled tray type with 4 tiny holes in the corners.
I'm gonna try to hire something to lift it on saturday.

Has anyone got a link to what a drain cover lifter looks like?
It wasn't greased when installed.
Is it likely to be problematic to lift it?

blackbat,

It may well be screwed down to ensure an air-tight seal. Have a look in
those 'tiny holes' and you may find the screw heads (brass or non-ferrous) -
if they are there, simply unscrew them first and the cover will lift out.

Tips:

1 The 'concrete' is probably screed and will be no more than two inches
thick - so fairly light.
2 Before you start, nip down to the local builders merchants (Jewsons)
and buy yourself a couple of manhole lifting keys to suit for a couple of
pounds.



BRG

Phil L wrote:
blackbat wrote:
Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

It is a concrete filled tray type with 4 tiny holes in the corners.
I'm gonna try to hire something to lift it on saturday.

Has anyone got a link to what a drain cover lifter looks like?
It wasn't greased when installed.
Is it likely to be problematic to lift it?

Not at all...have you tried a few screwdrivers in two corners closest
to each other?
With a colleague, lever one side up and get the oppo to stick
something underneath like a spade etc, then continue with the drivers
etc until it's off.

Also, the more common causes of blockages a

1) using kitchen roll instead of toilet roll - it doesn't break up.
2) 'flushable' baby wipes (kandoo etc) - see above.
3) 'flushable' brushes, the disposable use once variety, - see above.
4) kids flushing unbreakupable items such as dolls, pencils, pyjamas
etc.

and 5) String tailed mice.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:54:56 +0000, blackbat wrote:

My toilet is not draining properly.

Have you tried a well aimed and fast poured bucket of water? That'll shift
most things that should be down a toilet. If there is a risk that
something is down there (see previously posted list for ideas) that
shouldn't be get your hand in first and feel around the trap. Squeamish?
You could use a rubber glove and some bleach in the water...

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as jammed
as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of ****ty water until
you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe holds a lot of water, can't
be arsed to do the maths but something of the order of a gallon or 5
litres per foot (30cm) I should think.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:54:56 +0000, blackbat wrote:

My toilet is not draining properly.

Have you tried a well aimed and fast poured bucket of water? That'll
shift most things that should be down a toilet. If there is a risk
that something is down there (see previously posted list for ideas)
that shouldn't be get your hand in first and feel around the trap.
Squeamish? You could use a rubber glove and some bleach in the
water...

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as
jammed as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of ****ty
water until you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe holds a lot
of water, can't be arsed to do the maths but something of the order
of a gallon or 5 litres per foot (30cm) I should think.

Dave,

Yes it is a lot of water! I was once involved in clearing a sewer where
the poor old workmen had to dig down around four foot to find the pipe
(below the blockage as we thought) break into the pipe, clear the blockage
and build a manhole there (it was a hell of a long run).

We made a mistake in our calculations and broke the 6" sewer above the
blockage, and within seconds, the poor beggers were up to their knees in
some rather smelly stuff - yuk!

Took me days to get rid of the smell from the van after I had taken them
back to the depot for a shower and then home for clean clothes (they did
look rather fetching in nothing but new boilers suits and wellies though as
I took 'em home). :-)

BRG

On 5 Mar, 21:24, "BRG" wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:54:56 +0000, blackbat wrote:

My toilet is not draining properly.

Have you tried a well aimed and fast poured bucket of water? That'll
shift most things that should be down a toilet. If there is a risk
that something is down there (see previously posted list for ideas)
that shouldn't be get your hand in first and feel around the trap.
Squeamish? You could use a rubber glove and some bleach in the
water...

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as
jammed as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of ****ty
water until you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe holds a lot
of water, can't be arsed to do the maths but something of the order
of a gallon or 5 litres per foot (30cm) I should think.

Dave,

Yes it is a lot of water! I was once involved in clearing a sewer where
the poor old workmen had to dig down around four foot to find the pipe
(below the blockage as we thought) break into the pipe, clear the blockage
and build a manhole there (it was a hell of a long run).

We made a mistake in our calculations and broke the 6" sewer above the
blockage, and within seconds, the poor beggers were up to their knees in
some rather smelly stuff - yuk!

Took me days to get rid of the smell from the van after I had taken them
back to the depot for a shower and then home for clean clothes (they did
look rather fetching in nothing but new boilers suits and wellies though as
I took 'em home). :-)

BRG

Just been there - just done it ! Mini digger to dig down to an S G
bend with a liftable cover - it lifted all right and the hole filled
up almost to road level with my family's deposits !! Probably pretty
obvious but I cleared the drain with a hose attached to the drain rod
with cable ties.

So there's now a hole extended to find the broken join and tomorrow's
task is to sort that and also fit a rodding eye for that part of the
drain run.

Sorry - that doesn't help the OP !

Rob

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:30:06 -0000, "BRG" wrote:

blackbat,

It may well be screwed down to ensure an air-tight seal. Have a look in
those 'tiny holes' and you may find the screw heads (brass or non-ferrous) -
if they are there, simply unscrew them first and the cover will lift out.

I've cleared any debris out of the holes with compressed air. All I
can see is another threaded hole further inside. I guess there must be
some key etc that fits those threads to allow lifting.

Tips:

1 The 'concrete' is probably screed and will be no more than two inches
thick - so fairly light.
2 Before you start, nip down to the local builders merchants (Jewsons)
and buy yourself a couple of manhole lifting keys to suit for a couple of
pounds.

--

blackbat /\x/\

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:04:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:



Have you tried a well aimed and fast poured bucket of water? That'll shift
most things that should be down a toilet. If there is a risk that
something is down there (see previously posted list for ideas) that
shouldn't be get your hand in first and feel around the trap. Squeamish?
You could use a rubber glove and some bleach in the water...
It's not the toilet, the drain for my kitchen sink also routes via
this cover and that is also taking time to dissipate.


How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as jammed
as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of ****ty water until
you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe holds a lot of water, can't
be arsed to do the maths but something of the order of a gallon or 5
litres per foot (30cm) I should think.

Great - you're supposed to be giving me encouragement :-)
--

blackbat /\x/\

i'm on drains too,
ive got one that is quite blocked,
takes a long time for water to seep through,
what i've been doing is putting a hose and water tap in there
dripping just enough to keep it topped up
and looking at it every half an hour or so,
after while i could open the tap a little more
and more water was getting through,
its slowly crumb by crumb unblocking itself...

also caustic soda dissolves **** and stuff
doesnt it?

so my suggestion is to put a hose in there
and drip in just as much water
as will drain,
and see if it clears itself
before destroying pipes,
some of the posts here are quite scary...

but if its the only loo youve got
perhaps dig an earth toilet in the garden whilst you sort it?

g

blackbat wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:04:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:



Have you tried a well aimed and fast poured bucket of water? That'll
shift most things that should be down a toilet. If there is a risk
that something is down there (see previously posted list for ideas)
that shouldn't be get your hand in first and feel around the trap.
Squeamish? You could use a rubber glove and some bleach in the
water...
It's not the toilet, the drain for my kitchen sink also routes via
this cover and that is also taking time to dissipate.


How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as
jammed as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of
****ty water until you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe
holds a lot of water, can't be arsed to do the maths but something
of the order of a gallon or 5 litres per foot (30cm) I should think.

Great - you're supposed to be giving me encouragement :-)

Nah! If the cover is not screwed down (and from your previous reply it
appears that way) then you can take some comfort in the fact that there is
no pressure there - if it was, then the lid would be on the ceiling by now -
and I would suggest the blockage is *before* the manhole.

Try putting a heavy screwdriver (after giving the manhole cover a sharp rap
or two with a hammer shaft) between the lid and frame rebate and press
down - you should see the cover give.

BRG

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:44:24 +0000, blackbat wrote:

It's not the toilet,

er, so why did you say?:

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:54:56 +0000, blackbat wrote:

Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

the drain for my kitchen sink also routes via this cover and that is
also taking time to dissipate.

Give the full and correct story and you satnd a much better chance of
getting accurate and sensible advice... Though that doesn't help a lot
other than indicating the blockage is not likely to be in the U bend of
the loo.

Does mean you'll have greasy and rotting vegitable matter along with
****ty water to contend with. I'm not sure which is worse the **** or
rotting vegitable matter, I think the later.

How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as
jammed as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of ****ty
water until you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe holds a lot
of water,

Great - you're supposed to be giving me encouragement :-)

Just a warning before you go proding about willy nilly and flood your
utility room. I think building regs say that inspection chamber covers
inside buildings have to be screwed down and have proper seals, unlike
those outside that just rest in the rim without seals. Open with caution
and be prepared to shut it down again PDQ (if you can!) and have plan for
when you can't, clear the floor, remove furniture etc...

--
Cheers
Dave.

The message
from "BRG" contains these words:

Nah! If the cover is not screwed down (and from your previous reply it
appears that way) then you can take some comfort in the fact that there is
no pressure there - if it was, then the lid would be on the ceiling by
now -
and I would suggest the blockage is *before* the manhole.

Just to muddy the waters a little shouldn't manhole covers inside a
house be screwed down as a matter of course?

--
Roger Chapman

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:51:58 -0000, "George \(dicegeorge\)"
wrote:

caustic soda dissolves **** and stuff

Hmm, I'm considering putting that on a T shirt
--

blackbat /\x/\

Roger wrote:
The message
from "BRG" contains these words:

Nah! If the cover is not screwed down (and from your previous reply
it appears that way) then you can take some comfort in the fact that
there is no pressure there - if it was, then the lid would be on the
ceiling by now -
and I would suggest the blockage is *before* the manhole.

Just to muddy the waters a little shouldn't manhole covers inside a
house be screwed down as a matter of course?

Correct, but not all builders do that - or the odd D-I-Yer for that matter -
or they simply 'forget' to put the screws in :-)

BRG

In article ,
blackbat wrote:

Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

BlackBat -- first thing I would do is find the next drain down the line
and look in there (if you can).

Funnily enough I TOO cleared a sewage drain last weekend(!) Luckily,
ours goes into our neighbour's, which is in his garden, and the two join
together and flow into a larger diameter drain.

I cleared ours (having unsuccessfully poked long things down from my
end) by shoving a running hose pipe up my neighbour's end (he enjoyed it
immensely): the flow of water flushed the blockage gradually, in a
minute or two, followed by a veritable fountain of **** which had (as
others have warned) backed up well beyond my blocked drain. Fortunately
I was prepared for that (done this before), and was standing well back.

John

On 6 Mar, 15:02, Paul Matthews wrote:
jal wrote:
BlackBat -- first thing I would do is find the next drain down the line
and look in there (if you can). *

Good advice.

It is more likely to be outdoors in case of a little mess, if that also shows
signs of blockage then move to the next one until you find one that is clear
and you can then work on the thought that the blockage is between them.

I'd also be tempted to try rodding from the clear end.

If you find (and clear) a blockage keep an eye on things. If the point of
blockage is outside and things start to slow again, it will probably be work
getting a camera up to check for damage - you may have a tree root or slippage
between pipes.
--
Paul Matthews * * * * * * * * * * * * *


This might not seem a likely solution but if your manhole cover is
strong enough to take it, a whack with a sledge hammer at several
points around the edge will often loosen it. Then get crow bars and
chisels in and finally it will lift but it's best if you've got some
manhole keys. I've seen professional sewer gangs whip up Victorian
manhole covers in the street in no time with nothing fancier than
this.

Don't hit it if it's a flimsy cast iron lid though. It'll break.

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:46:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:


Give the full and correct story and you satnd a much better chance of
getting accurate and sensible advice... Though that doesn't help a lot
other than indicating the blockage is not likely to be in the U bend of
the loo.

True, but to be fair my question was how to lift a stuck manhole
cover, not locate a blockage.

Does mean you'll have greasy and rotting vegitable matter along with
****ty water to contend with. I'm not sure which is worse the **** or
rotting vegitable matter, I think the later.

How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as
jammed as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of ****ty
water until you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe holds a lot
of water,

Great - you're supposed to be giving me encouragement :-)

Just a warning before you go proding about willy nilly and flood your
utility room. I think building regs say that inspection chamber covers
inside buildings have to be screwed down and have proper seals, unlike
those outside that just rest in the rim without seals. Open with caution
and be prepared to shut it down again PDQ (if you can!) and have plan for
when you can't, clear the floor, remove furniture etc...

I'm dreading an overflow situation, the utility room has washing
machine, tumble dryer, freezer and fitted kitchen units. Not easily
removed.
--

blackbat /\x/\

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:50:15 +0000, jal wrote:

In article ,
blackbat wrote:

Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

BlackBat -- first thing I would do is find the next drain down the line
and look in there (if you can).

Good advice. I can get to a drain further down the line. Don't think
the blockage will be there. I think I'll still need to get to my
blocked drain but at least if I can release most of the crap by
rodding backwards then it would prevent a flood situation in the
utility room.
--

blackbat /\x/\

In message , blackbat
writes
How far below the slow toilet is this inspection cover? If it's as jammed
as you suggest it might be holding back a stack full of ****ty water until
you disturb it then whoosh.... 110mm dia pipe holds a lot of water, can't
be arsed to do the maths but something of the order of a gallon or 5
litres per foot (30cm) I should think.

Great - you're supposed to be giving me encouragement :-)
Brownfield water feature including fountain.

I'd suggest the threaded holes you can see are actually in the frame for
the cover so if you do manage to get soemthing to screw into them you'll
be pulling the whole cover and base up. Screwdrivers and a spade or if
you can still read the moulded/pressed/cast makers mark, a set of keys
for that type of cover.
--
Clint Sharp

blackbat wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:46:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:


Give the full and correct story and you satnd a much better chance of
getting accurate and sensible advice... Though that doesn't help a
lot other than indicating the blockage is not likely to be in the U
bend of the loo.

True, but to be fair my question was how to lift a stuck manhole
cover, not locate a blockage.

As previously said blackbat, give the cover a few gentle clouts and a bit of
leverage and it should move easily - and if you can get some manhole cover
keys to fit, so much the better.

Also remember, that if the gentle method fails - and you really have to get
into the sewer no matter what at that point - then breaking and replacing
the cover may be your only option if the thing really is stuck (unlikely by
the way on an internal manhole).

BRG

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:54:56 +0000, blackbat
wrote:

Hi all,
My toilet is not draining properly.

I need to lift the associated drain cover in a utility room to check
for blockages but the cover has never been up since the day it was
fitted and looks jammed solid.

It is a concrete filled tray type with 4 tiny holes in the corners.
I'm gonna try to hire something to lift it on saturday.

Has anyone got a link to what a drain cover lifter looks like?
It wasn't greased when installed.
Is it likely to be problematic to lift it?


A follow up if you are interested.

The four tiny holes in the corners housed M8 threads. Tried attaching
bolts to them and a cross bar as a handle but lid wouldn't budge.

Then, bingo. The penny dropped - the threads weren't designed to house
a key, they were for screws to clamp the lid to the frame. I had been
trying to lift the frame :-)

I gave they cover a couple of whacks with a mallet to loosen it.
Chipped away some of the concrete around the housing which allowed me
to get a cold chisel and crowbar in and it lifted.

Lucky too as there was no overflow from the stack.

Then it was rodding as usual - all done now.

Thanks to all those that replied with advice.
--

blackbat /\x/\