I've just bought a house which was built in 1965. It has a modern
consumer unit but having just removed a light switch I notice the wires
leading to it are black and red.

At what point does a rewire become necessary?
--
Regards,

Geoff Berrow

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:52:40 +0100, Geoff Berrow
wrote:

I've just bought a house which was built in 1965. It has a modern
consumer unit but having just removed a light switch I notice the wires
leading to it are black and red.

At what point does a rewire become necessary?

Just before it kills someone.

If you're concerned you could get it tested to see if it's all working
correctly.
--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

"Mogga" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:52:40 +0100, Geoff Berrow
wrote:

I've just bought a house which was built in 1965. It has a modern
consumer unit but having just removed a light switch I notice the wires
leading to it are black and red.

At what point does a rewire become necessary?

Just before it kills someone.

If you're concerned you could get it tested to see if it's all working
correctly.
--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

Tends to be alterations that give rise to dangers. If it was wired in
accordance with the standards of the day and is used in an appropriate
manner then it could be safe for years. Some sockets may be getting tired
though.

Make sure you have no metal light fittings if it doesn't have earthed
lighting circuits.

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965. It has a modern
consumer unit but having just removed a light switch I notice the wires
leading to it are black and red.

At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be) or b) before it's dangerous.

Don't risk it, install modern wiring, regulation compliant.

Maty

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:02:12 +0100 Mary Fisher wrote :
When it's a) illegal (which yours might be) or b) before it's dangerous.

Don't risk it, install modern wiring, regulation compliant.

It might not be compliant with current regulations but that doesn't make
it illegal.

I wonder what HIPS would make of it?

Seriously ... I'm not criticising the wiring.

Mary

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965. It has a modern
consumer unit but having just removed a light switch I notice the wires
leading to it are black and red.

At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be) or b) before it's dangerous.

Please explain how you think wiring in a house built in '65 could be
'illegal'?

Don't risk it, install modern wiring, regulation compliant.

Perhaps some proper inspection and testing might be a cheaper alternative
to blindly replacing things?

The likely major thing that doesn't meet current regs is that lighting
circuits may not have an earth. But this is by no means certain with mid
'60s wiring.

--
*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

or b) before it's dangerous.

Yes. To the OP, the usual signs are insulation starting to perish or
split. This can be seen if you take off a few sockets to see the state
of the insulation. If it looks perished, or dry, then it is time to
rewire.
My parents house is 42yo, they had a sparky round who did various tests
on the wiring, and told them there was no real need to get it rewired,
as it was fine, though it would benefit from a new consumer unit and
relevant RCD protection for different circuits. In the end, they left it
as is.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

Regulations change.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

Regulations change.

But it doesnt affect existing installations, otherwise 50%+ of houses in
the Country wouldnt meet the regs.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Mary Fisher wrote:

I wonder what HIPS would make of it?

A pigs breakfast?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

Regulations change.

True, but not in general retrospectively. Nor does non compliance mean the
law is broken.

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:31:57 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
mused:


"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:02:12 +0100 Mary Fisher wrote :
When it's a) illegal (which yours might be) or b) before it's dangerous.

Don't risk it, install modern wiring, regulation compliant.

It might not be compliant with current regulations but that doesn't make
it illegal.

I wonder what HIPS would make of it?

It can make what it likes of it. A test is done, the report written.
If it fails, it faisl, if it passes, it passes. HIPS makes no
difference to the state of the wiring, or the cost of the rewiring of
it, or the safety of it.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Geoff Berrow wrote:

I've just bought a house which was built in 1965. It has a modern
consumer unit but having just removed a light switch I notice the wires
leading to it are black and red.

Black and Red does not tell you much - most wiring in the country is
black and red - "modern" colours have only been standard for 2-3 years,
and even now there is plenty of old colour wire still being installed
today (non compliantly!)

At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When one of two things happen:

The existing wiring deteriorates to the point at which it becomes
unsafe. This would apply to most rubber insulated cables still installed
now for example.

and/or

The layout and quantity and position of the available accessories is a
long way from meeting your current requirements. That would include
living in a "trip hazard" that is festooned with extension leads because
you lack sockets in all the place you need them.

It is possible (although unlikely) that a 1965 place has already been
rewired, but it is probably still original.

You can get some dating clues by reading this:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....03d6bdddd41466



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:02:12 +0100 Mary Fisher wrote :
When it's a) illegal (which yours might be) or b) before it's dangerous.

Don't risk it, install modern wiring, regulation compliant.

It might not be compliant with current regulations but that doesn't make
it illegal. And, as already said, if the OP sticks to insulated switches
and fittings the safety risk is negligible. But if he wants brass
chandeliers and switches then it's rewire time.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

In article , A.Lee
writes
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

or b) before it's dangerous.

Yes. To the OP, the usual signs are insulation starting to perish or
split. This can be seen if you take off a few sockets to see the state
of the insulation. If it looks perished, or dry, then it is time to
rewire.
My parents house is 42yo, they had a sparky round who did various tests
on the wiring, and told them there was no real need to get it rewired,
as it was fine, though it would benefit from a new consumer unit and
relevant RCD protection for different circuits. In the end, they left it
as is.
Alan.

I would do a sample check on fittings that the wires are still firmly
terminated - I have found that the wires can work loose with time. Other
than that I would do nothing unless you need to add a lot of sockets,
etc.


--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

The message
from Geoff Berrow contains these words:

I've just bought a house which was built in 1965. It has a modern
consumer unit but having just removed a light switch I notice the wires
leading to it are black and red.

You could have bought a house built in 2005 and still made the same discovery.

At what point does a rewire become necessary?

These days not very often. If you had rubber covered wiring you should
be concerned but that should not have been in a 1965 new build.

--
Roger Chapman

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

Regulations change.

But it doesnt affect existing installations, otherwise 50%+ of houses in
the Country wouldnt meet the regs.

Yes, and if those houses' wiring was examined by The Authorities it would be
condemned.

It happened to us, many years ago.

Mary

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:38:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
mused:


"A.Lee" wrote in message
. ..
Mary Fisher wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
...
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

Regulations change.

But it doesnt affect existing installations, otherwise 50%+ of houses in
the Country wouldnt meet the regs.

Yes, and if those houses' wiring was examined by The Authorities it would be
condemned.

Just because it isn't up to the current standards doesn't mean it
needs condemning.

It happened to us, many years ago.

You may have been conned, or the wiring may have been actually
condemable.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 31 Jul, 21:49, Lurch wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:38:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
mused:







"A.Lee" wrote in message
. ..
Mary Fisher wrote:

"A.Lee" wrote in message
. ..
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message
. ..
I've just bought a house which was built in 1965.
At what point does a rewire become necessary?

When it's a) illegal (which yours might be)

Why would an existing installation be illegal?

Regulations change.

But it doesnt affect existing installations, otherwise 50%+ of houses in
the Country wouldnt meet the regs.

Yes, and if those houses' wiring was examined by The Authorities it would be
condemned.

Just because it isn't up to the current standards doesn't mean it
needs condemning.

It happened to us, many years ago.

You may have been conned, or the wiring may have been actually
condemable.
--
Regards,
Stuart.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are all too many con artists out there who trade on the
ignorance of simple folk!

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:38:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"


It happened to us, many years ago.

You may have been conned, or the wiring may have been actually
condemable.

We weren't conned, the regs said that you couldn't have two and three pin
power points in the same room.

Mary

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:13:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
mused:


"Lurch" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:38:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"


It happened to us, many years ago.

You may have been conned, or the wiring may have been actually
condemable.

We weren't conned, the regs said that you couldn't have two and three pin
power points in the same room.

Well there you go then, condemnable. 'Not right' doesn't equate to
'condemned'.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 31 Jul, 22:13, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Lurch" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:38:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"

It happened to us, many years ago.

You may have been conned, or the wiring may have been actually
condemable.

We weren't conned, the regs said that you couldn't have two and three pin
power points in the same room.

Mary

What year was that in Mary?

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:13:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
mused:


"Lurch" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:38:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"


It happened to us, many years ago.

You may have been conned, or the wiring may have been actually
condemable.

We weren't conned, the regs said that you couldn't have two and three pin
power points in the same room.

Well there you go then, condemnable. 'Not right' doesn't equate to
'condemned'.

We were told to have the wiring redone in accordance with the regs, it would
be examined and condemned if not done according to regs. It was back in the
1960s but it seems to me that regulations have increased rather than
decreased over the years, I've known a pensioner be left with no heating or
hot water because of a fault with her boiler - this by a government scheme.

But there's no point in continuing this because nobody's going to take any
notice of my experiences - as if I cared :-)

Mary
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:52:14 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
mused:


"Lurch" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:13:46 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
mused:


"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:38:59 +0100, "Mary Fisher"


It happened to us, many years ago.

You may have been conned, or the wiring may have been actually
condemable.

We weren't conned, the regs said that you couldn't have two and three pin
power points in the same room.

Well there you go then, condemnable. 'Not right' doesn't equate to
'condemned'.

We were told to have the wiring redone in accordance with the regs, it would
be examined and condemned if not done according to regs. It was back in the
1960s but it seems to me that regulations have increased rather than
decreased over the years,

Be that as it may, I can't condemn much these days, I can only advise
on what wants doing. I have condemned stuff before and the customer
has decided to completely ignore me and carry on as they are, it's the
way it works. You obviously listened to the advice you received.

I've known a pensioner be left with no heating or
hot water because of a fault with her boiler - this by a government scheme.

Gas is different to water, people take notice because it's gas and
there is more weight behind the authorities and gas suppliers.

But there's no point in continuing this because nobody's going to take any
notice of my experiences - as if I cared :-)

I'm not not taking notice, I'm telling you where your experiences
aren't the norm. As usual, you are bandying advice about based on
personal experience, intefering as I call it.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
But it doesnt affect existing installations, otherwise 50%+ of houses
in the Country wouldnt meet the regs.

Yes, and if those houses' wiring was examined by The Authorities it
would be condemned.

It happened to us, many years ago.

That house might have been wired pre-war and altered and added to wiring
wise many times over the years. By the '60s, standards had somewhat
settled down and weren't *that* much different from today. Of course the
only way to tell if it does indeed need a total re-wire is by testing and
examination. It simply can't be done by age alone.

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from Tony Bryer contains these words:

Don't risk it, install modern wiring, regulation compliant.

It might not be compliant with current regulations but that doesn't make
it illegal. And, as already said, if the OP sticks to insulated switches
and fittings the safety risk is negligible. But if he wants brass
chandeliers and switches then it's rewire time.

My late parents bungalow, built in 1968, had twin plus earth wiring for
the lights. I also had a central point for the ground floor lighting
with a mass of screw-it (?) junctions and the earth wires wrapped round
the containment in an untidy mess but that, as they say,is another
story, the ending of which has yet to be written.

--
Roger Chapman

Message-ID: t from Mary
Fisher contained the following:

Don't risk it, install modern wiring, regulation compliant.


Having had the wiring checked this morning it turns out that it's
rubber. So it's a rewire unfortunately. On the plus side the house is
empty of furniture and we're in the process of decorating and fitting
new carpets throughout so now is a good time to do it. I'll take the
opportunity of putting some downlighters in at the same time.
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

"Geoff Berrow" wrote

Having had the wiring checked this morning it turns out that it's
rubber. So it's a rewire unfortunately. On the plus side the house is
empty of furniture and we're in the process of decorating and fitting
new carpets throughout so now is a good time to do it. I'll take the
opportunity of putting some downlighters in at the same time.
--
Also time to look at circuit layout.
How many, future requirement etc etc
Make sure you get a split box with plenty of spares just in case.

Phil

On 1 Aug, 13:19, Geoff Berrow wrote:

Having had the wiring checked this morning it turns out that it's
rubber. So it's a rewire unfortunately.

Yup. This could be useful then:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Rewiring_Tips


I'll take the
opportunity of putting some downlighters in at the same time.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...logen_Lighting


NT

On 31 Jul, 23:23, Owain wrote:
Mary Fisher wrote:

We weren't conned, the regs said that you couldn't have two and three pin
power points in the same room.

I've never heard of such a Reg, indeed it would be absolutely normal to
have 2- or 3-pin 5A sockets for small appliances and lighting and 3-pin
15A sockets for heating, up to c. 1948.

Any wiring old enough to have 2-pin sockets might be unsafe for other
reasons.

Owain

A mix of 2 and 3 pin sockets was common in the 60s. A minority of
places still had that in the 80s.


NT

In article .com,
wrote:
A mix of 2 and 3 pin sockets was common in the 60s. A minority of
places still had that in the 80s.

On new build?

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.