OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using the
DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with the
telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned down)
and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same ring
main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main) and
she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was still on.
I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to expect - MCBs
couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would be off, but they
weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a neighbour came knocking
to say that something similar had happened at their house and was wondering
if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in town
shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour later, he
rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on time as
*some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her office is in
town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was flashing).
His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle geographically,
with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even 4 miles. How the
hell could this have happened and more to the point, just exactly *what*
happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)

http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3064929 possibly relevant

Is the kit which went off now working again or dead or a mixture?

--
Robin

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:24:17 +0100, John wrote:

OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using the
DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with the
telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned down)
and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same ring
main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main) and
she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was still on.
I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to expect - MCBs
couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would be off, but they
weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a neighbour came knocking
to say that something similar had happened at their house and was wondering
if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in town
shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour later, he
rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on time as
*some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her office is in
town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was flashing).
His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle geographically,
with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even 4 miles. How the
hell could this have happened and more to the point, just exactly *what*
happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)

Probably a fault at a higher voltage (33kv or even higher) some long way
from you pulled the volts down enough for a 'brown out'.

Fault protection for predominantly overhead systems have both an
instantaneous element and a time-delayed element. The instantaneous element
trips the circuit in a matter of a very few milliseconds and is intended
for transient faults, like wind-borne material, birds flying into and
clashing the wires, tree branches, which can cause a very short duration
fault but which then clears itself, so the circuit can be re-energised
after a few seconds delay. In the event of a sustained fault the
time-delayed protection operates. At 11kv, that time delay is still very
small, typically 350-400 milliseconds.

On underground systems, there isn't usually any need for instantaneous
protection, as a fault will be sustained anyway. The higher the voltage the
longer the (relative) time delay, to get discrimation between voltages -
you don't want the protection at, say, 33kv or 132kv recognising and
operating with a fault at 11kv, so the time delay to operate could be two
or three seconds.

So, a fault at a much higher voltage, and quite possibly some distance from
you will be pulling down the voltage for perhaps two or three seconds where
you are until the fault is cleared. Some equipment at home will be more
sensitive to (severe) voltage fluctuations than others, hence some items
affected, some not.

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

"John" wrote in message
...
OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using the
DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with the
telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned down)
and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same ring
main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main)
and she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was
still on. I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to
expect - MCBs couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would
be off, but they weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a
neighbour came knocking to say that something similar had happened at
their house and was wondering if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in
town shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour
later, he rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on
time as *some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her office
is in town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was
flashing). His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle
geographically, with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even 4
miles. How the hell could this have happened and more to the point, just
exactly *what* happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)

Obviously due to deployment somewhere of an EM pulse weapon. A no-brainer
for Stargate SG1 watchers.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines

"Robin" pleaseaskinthegroup@becauseIhavegotfedupwithspama ndstuff.co.ru
wrote in message k...

http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3064929 possibly relevant

Is the kit which went off now working again or dead or a mixture?

Ha, that'll be it Robin. We get the LEP delivered but it only arrives at
about 5.30ish - hadn't thought about looking at the online version )

Everything working as it should, it was only off momentarily. What I
couldn't understand was that it only affected some things in the house and
not others.

John

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:24:17 +0100, John wrote:

OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using
the
DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with the
telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned
down)
and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same ring
main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main)
and
she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was still
on.
I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to expect - MCBs
couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would be off, but
they
weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a neighbour came
knocking
to say that something similar had happened at their house and was
wondering
if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in
town
shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour later,
he
rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on time as
*some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her office is in
town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was
flashing).
His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle
geographically,
with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even 4 miles. How the
hell could this have happened and more to the point, just exactly *what*
happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)

Probably a fault at a higher voltage (33kv or even higher) some long way
from you pulled the volts down enough for a 'brown out'.

Fault protection for predominantly overhead systems have both an
instantaneous element and a time-delayed element. The instantaneous
element
trips the circuit in a matter of a very few milliseconds and is intended
for transient faults, like wind-borne material, birds flying into and
clashing the wires, tree branches, which can cause a very short duration
fault but which then clears itself, so the circuit can be re-energised
after a few seconds delay. In the event of a sustained fault the
time-delayed protection operates. At 11kv, that time delay is still very
small, typically 350-400 milliseconds.

On underground systems, there isn't usually any need for instantaneous
protection, as a fault will be sustained anyway. The higher the voltage
the
longer the (relative) time delay, to get discrimation between voltages -
you don't want the protection at, say, 33kv or 132kv recognising and
operating with a fault at 11kv, so the time delay to operate could be two
or three seconds.

So, a fault at a much higher voltage, and quite possibly some distance
from
you will be pulling down the voltage for perhaps two or three seconds
where
you are until the fault is cleared. Some equipment at home will be more
sensitive to (severe) voltage fluctuations than others, hence some items
affected, some not.

Brilliant explanation Wanderer, thanks very much.

John.

"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...
OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using
the DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with
the telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned
down) and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same
ring main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main)
and she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was
still on. I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to
expect - MCBs couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would
be off, but they weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a
neighbour came knocking to say that something similar had happened at
their house and was wondering if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in
town shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour
later, he rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on
time as *some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her
office is in town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was
flashing). His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle
geographically, with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even
4 miles. How the hell could this have happened and more to the point,
just exactly *what* happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)

Obviously due to deployment somewhere of an EM pulse weapon. A no-brainer
for Stargate SG1 watchers.

Must admit, that hadn't really crossed my mind Dave )

In article ,
John wrote:
Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle
geographically, with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe
even 4 miles. How the hell could this have happened and more to the
point, just exactly *what* happened??

You had a voltage reduction and those things sensitive to this shut down
while others - like a kettle - carried on. Some devices with a clever
power supply can cope with a much greater voltage reduction than others
and carry on working normally. Had it been dark and you'd had lights on
you'd have noticed a reduction in brightness. Probably.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

John wrote:
"The Wanderer" wrote in message

Probably a fault at a higher voltage (33kv or even higher) some long way
from you pulled the volts down enough for a 'brown out'.

Fault protection for predominantly overhead systems have both an
instantaneous element and a time-delayed element. The instantaneous
element
trips the circuit in a matter of a very few milliseconds and is intended
for transient faults, like wind-borne material, birds flying into and
clashing the wires, tree branches, which can cause a very short duration
fault but which then clears itself, so the circuit can be re-energised
after a few seconds delay. In the event of a sustained fault the
time-delayed protection operates. At 11kv, that time delay is still very
small, typically 350-400 milliseconds.

On underground systems, there isn't usually any need for instantaneous
protection, as a fault will be sustained anyway. The higher the voltage
the
longer the (relative) time delay, to get discrimation between voltages -
you don't want the protection at, say, 33kv or 132kv recognising and
operating with a fault at 11kv, so the time delay to operate could be two
or three seconds.

So, a fault at a much higher voltage, and quite possibly some distance
from
you will be pulling down the voltage for perhaps two or three seconds
where
you are until the fault is cleared. Some equipment at home will be more
sensitive to (severe) voltage fluctuations than others, hence some items
affected, some not.

Brilliant explanation Wanderer, thanks very much.

Yup, very useful. ;-)

I would add to that, IT equipment in particular will respond to these
things in different (and sometimes surprising) ways.

Most PC power supplies have enough internal capacity to ride out short
interruptions of several hundred ms. So a short glitch that affects some
equipment may go unnoticed by the PC. However as the duration increases
more and more will reset (hence the "some computers in the office"
problem). The reverse can also be true, the PSU in the HDD recorder may
be able to cope with longer interruptions than the (typically more
heavily loaded) computer PSU can.

Brownouts (sustained low volts) pose a different sort of problem - how
it copes with this will depend on the PSU technology. Most IT kit will
have switch mode PSUs, and some have very wide ranging input
capabilities (laptop PSUs for example are often happy with anything from
90V up), and may carry on with half mains voltage and not bat an eyelid.
Others may treat it as an interruption and shut the machine down. What
happens on power recovery is controllable in the BIOS on many PCs now.
So you have have them stay off, or start, or return to whatever state
there were in at the time of interruption. Most non IT kit will just run
dimmer / slower or not work at all on low volts. Although some things
like fridges are actually at risk of being damaged by persistent low volts.

For IT kit a UPS is your friend!

(and if you power is anything like ours, gets well used sometimes!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
"The Wanderer" wrote in message

Probably a fault at a higher voltage (33kv or even higher) some long way
from you pulled the volts down enough for a 'brown out'.

Fault protection for predominantly overhead systems have both an
instantaneous element and a time-delayed element. The instantaneous
element
trips the circuit in a matter of a very few milliseconds and is intended
for transient faults, like wind-borne material, birds flying into and
clashing the wires, tree branches, which can cause a very short duration
fault but which then clears itself, so the circuit can be re-energised
after a few seconds delay. In the event of a sustained fault the
time-delayed protection operates. At 11kv, that time delay is still very
small, typically 350-400 milliseconds.

On underground systems, there isn't usually any need for instantaneous
protection, as a fault will be sustained anyway. The higher the voltage
the
longer the (relative) time delay, to get discrimation between voltages -
you don't want the protection at, say, 33kv or 132kv recognising and
operating with a fault at 11kv, so the time delay to operate could be
two
or three seconds.

So, a fault at a much higher voltage, and quite possibly some distance
from
you will be pulling down the voltage for perhaps two or three seconds
where
you are until the fault is cleared. Some equipment at home will be more
sensitive to (severe) voltage fluctuations than others, hence some items
affected, some not.

Brilliant explanation Wanderer, thanks very much.

Yup, very useful. ;-)

I would add to that, IT equipment in particular will respond to these
things in different (and sometimes surprising) ways.

Most PC power supplies have enough internal capacity to ride out short
interruptions of several hundred ms. So a short glitch that affects some
equipment may go unnoticed by the PC. However as the duration increases
more and more will reset (hence the "some computers in the office"
problem). The reverse can also be true, the PSU in the HDD recorder may be
able to cope with longer interruptions than the (typically more heavily
loaded) computer PSU can.

Brownouts (sustained low volts) pose a different sort of problem - how it
copes with this will depend on the PSU technology. Most IT kit will have
switch mode PSUs, and some have very wide ranging input capabilities
(laptop PSUs for example are often happy with anything from 90V up), and
may carry on with half mains voltage and not bat an eyelid. Others may
treat it as an interruption and shut the machine down. What happens on
power recovery is controllable in the BIOS on many PCs now. So you have
have them stay off, or start, or return to whatever state there were in at
the time of interruption. Most non IT kit will just run dimmer / slower or
not work at all on low volts. Although some things like fridges are
actually at risk of being damaged by persistent low volts.

For IT kit a UPS is your friend!

(and if you power is anything like ours, gets well used sometimes!)

Again, very good, interesting info - thanks John

John wrote:
OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using the
DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with the
telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned down)
and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same ring
main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main) and
she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was still on.
I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to expect - MCBs
couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would be off, but they
weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a neighbour came knocking
to say that something similar had happened at their house and was wondering
if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in town
shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour later, he
rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on time as
*some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her office is in
town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was flashing).
His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle geographically,
with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even 4 miles. How the
hell could this have happened and more to the point, just exactly *what*
happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)


"Brownout". Voltage dropped enough to trip some stuff but not others.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:



"Brownout". Voltage dropped enough to trip some stuff but not others.

Not quite a "blackout" - but bad enough to require a change of underwear?
g
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In article , John herbieadslRE
writes
OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using the
DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with the
telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned down)
and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same ring
main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main) and
she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was still on.
I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to expect - MCBs
couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would be off, but they
weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a neighbour came knocking
to say that something similar had happened at their house and was wondering
if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in town
shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour later, he
rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on time as
*some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her office is in
town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was flashing).
His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle geographically,
with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even 4 miles. How the
hell could this have happened and more to the point, just exactly *what*
happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)



More then likely it went low volts which we have had a few times
recently. On one transmitter site dropped to around 120 volts affected
some gear and not other stuff. One unit will work on anything, literally
from 70 up to 300 odd the others are far more fragile!....
--
Tony Sayer

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


"Brownout". Voltage dropped enough to trip some stuff but not others.

Not quite a "blackout" - but bad enough to require a change of underwear?
g
Probably..

tony sayer wrote:
In article , John herbieadslRE
writes
OK, not DIY but interesting anyway.

Yesterday, I was sat at my computer at about 3.00pm and suddenly the
computer and the wireless router went off, I was listening to the radio
tuner of the hi-fi and that went off, but at the same time I was using the
DVD/HDD recorder to dub some stuff from the hard drive to DVD (with the
telly on so that I could see what was going on, but the sound turned down)
and that *remained on* and OK - all of these being fed on the same ring
main.

Meanwhile, my wife was in the kitchen (which is on a seperate ring main) and
she came in to say that her telly had gone off but the kettle was still on.
I looked at the consumer unit, not really knowing what to expect - MCBs
couldn't have tripped or everything on those circuits would be off, but they
weren't. As expected, nothing was untoward. Then a neighbour came knocking
to say that something similar had happened at their house and was wondering
if we'd noticed anything.

Just been talking to a mate of mine on the phone and he said, "Did your
lektrickery go off at about 3 o'clock yesterday?" Apparently, he was in town
shopping and various shop lights and stuff went off. Half an hour later, he
rings his wife at work and she says that she'll not be home on time as
*some* of the computers (not all) had thrown a wobbly - her office is in
town.

When he got home, he found that his kitchen fridge was off and that a
clock/radio in the bedroom had gone off (because the display was flashing).
His beer fridge in the garage was OK though (PHEW!!! ))

Now, my house, his house, and town are roughly in a triangle geographically,
with each side of the triangle being about 3, maybe even 4 miles. How the
hell could this have happened and more to the point, just exactly *what*
happened??

John (this is in Preston, Lancashire, BTW)



More then likely it went low volts which we have had a few times
recently. On one transmitter site dropped to around 120 volts affected
some gear and not other stuff. One unit will work on anything, literally
from 70 up to 300 odd the others are far more fragile!....

Lost a SCO unix box to a brownout once. It had two big disks and a tape
drive in it..too much for the power supply capacitors to keep going on.
It rebooted, and we got another one as it was reloading all its
operating system. Crashed the most critical part of the disk. Never
worked again.

No other computer batted an eyelid.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Lost a SCO unix box to a brownout once. It had two big disks and a tape
drive in it..too much for the power supply capacitors to keep going on.
It rebooted, and we got another one as it was reloading all its
operating system. Crashed the most critical part of the disk. Never
worked again.

No other computer batted an eyelid.

We had about half a dozen power cuts last Monday during the day - only
lasted at most a couple of mins each so the UPSs rode though them
without any difficulties. The last one however came at about half seven,
and it stayed off. After 15 mins or so I though it was time to power
down before the batteries ran out. Then we though ok, now what? Decided
a cinema trip was about the only thing to do, so fired a computer up
again long enough to book tickets (made it with 30 secs of battery to
spare!). Buggered off to see Shrek the third. Phoning home at 10:00
revealed still no power (this power cut affecting only 300 meters square
of the village it seemed). So got a takeaway on the way home. Apparently
the power came back about 10 mins before we got home ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

Had it been dark and you'd had lights on
you'd have noticed a reduction in brightness. Probably.

Absolutely.

I sit up late with the cat and a lager and watch old films on the telly
with houselghts dim and surround sound through a separate unit. (On
Saturdays I have some cheesy biscuits - that's living all right!)

My lights, (overhead supplied) are always dimming, but the telly, HDD
player, and audio unit don't give a damn.

Neither does my PC if on, or anything else that I can see.

mike