I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with high
pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the kitchen.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this
summer. It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room
sealed type. So what would be the best replacement? Having been used
to such reliability that is important - as is availability of any
spares if needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class -
obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the
room along with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to
lift the floor to alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with
high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the
kitchen.

Thank you for answering the question you think I should have asked.

--
Small asylum seeker wanted as mud flap, must be flexible and willing to travel

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this
summer. It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room
sealed type. So what would be the best replacement? Having been used
to such reliability that is important - as is availability of any
spares if needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class -
obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the
room along with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to
lift the floor to alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with
high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the
kitchen.

Thank you for answering the question you think I should have asked.

This is what you need to buy and do. This is for your own good.

On 8 Jul, 10:43, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.

Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

Jon.

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:52:55 UTC, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with high
pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the kitchen.

Discount the idea of the Viessman combi then...it cannot be a solution.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.

--
*Don't byte off more than you can view *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-07-08 12:20:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this
summer. It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room
sealed type. So what would be the best replacement? Having been used
to such reliability that is important - as is availability of any
spares if needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class -
obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the
room along with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to
lift the floor to alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with
high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the
kitchen.

Thank you for answering the question you think I should have asked.

Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-08 12:20:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this
summer. It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room
sealed type. So what would be the best replacement? Having been used
to such reliability that is important - as is availability of any
spares if needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class -
obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the
room along with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to
lift the floor to alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with
high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the
kitchen.

Thank you for answering the question you think I should have asked.

Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him. It will
create space too and do away with his pumps all over the place.

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:52:55 UTC, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this
summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room
along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor
to
alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with high
pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the kitchen.

Discount the idea of the Viessman combi then...it cannot be a solution.

You are clearly a plantpot.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

But do they make a boiler of the type I want? I'll do some searching.

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him. It
will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the place.

Dribble, many have been telling you for your own good you need to seek
treatment. But you ignore them. So why do you expect others to take advice
from you?

Watch my lips. No combi made will suit my requirements. Which *you* can't
possibly understand. Nor would I want one which did even if it existed.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

But do they make a boiler of the type I want? I'll do some searching.

Yes it is the 333.

On 2007-07-08 17:06:39 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

But do they make a boiler of the type I want? I'll do some searching.

The question is whether you specifically want a floor standing boiler
or one that will fit into the space vacated by one. If you can do
the latter, then there is very much more choice. Don't forget the
various models which can use 50mm muPVC pipe for flue and air supply.

As to the system aspect...... I can appreciate not wanting to have to
rip out pipes and home run the DHW and CH back to the boiler.
However, some system boilers have a pump but not a diverter valve.
In that scenario, all you would have to do is to take out the existing
pump and bridge the pipe work and use the pump in the boiler. That
should be minimally invasive.

On 2007-07-08 15:01:27 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-08 12:20:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this
summer. It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room
sealed type. So what would be the best replacement? Having been used
to such reliability that is important - as is availability of any
spares if needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class -
obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the
room along with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to
lift the floor to alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with
high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the
kitchen.

Thank you for answering the question you think I should have asked.

Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

People like you should not presume.

Said the pot as he called the kettle black.


If he has a main good enough in flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333
is the ideal choice for him.

How do you know?

It will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the place.

There's a difference between space and worthwhile usable space.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:43:39 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.


The integral pump in a system boiler should not be a problem, just replace
the existing pump with a piece of pipe. I strongly advise going to a
sealed system.

Depending on whether the existing boiler is on an outside wall (Pott
Kingfisher 80 RS) or uses a chimney (Pott Kingfisher 80 CF) then the
approach will need to be different.

If the flue is difficult then a Keston Celsius 25 is a good choice,
mine's been really reliable over 4 years, but others have not had such
good experience.



Otherwise a suitable Vaillant or Worcester would be fine.

Before taking out the old unit try to measure the gas inlet pressure if it
makes 18 mbar then you should be OK with a modern boiler. Sometimes older
boilers were installed with (grossly) inadequate pipework.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:41:31 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:52:55 UTC, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with high
pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the kitchen.

Discount the idea of the Viessman combi then...it cannot be a solution.


But I'm, fairly sure they do a system version. Even if they don't but you
like Viessman on quality and price, you could still install the combi with
the HW outlet capped off.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 14:10:22 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.


You should get about 15% saving if all the rest of the system is up to
current standards. If you need to add TRVs and/or a wall themrostat and/or
a cylinder thermostat you should get more.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.

80% efficiency for a 25 year old boiler sounds unusually high. The boiler we
had replaced a couple years ago wasn't much older then that and was about
55% efficient.

On 8 Jul, 17:10, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.
People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him. It
will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the place.

Dribble, many have been telling you for your own good you need to seek
treatment. But you ignore them. So why do you expect others to take advice
from you?

Watch my lips. No combi made will suit my
requirements. Which *you* can't
possibly understand. Nor would I want one
which did even if it existed.

The 333 is a thermal store and boiler all in one box. A 1-box fit.
That will suit you OK that is certain, and most others. It will fit in
the same place as the old boiler as well. If your mains flow and
pressure is good enough, if I was you I would go for the 333, or a one
similar. It has a high hot water flow rate being a thermal store using
a plate heat exchnager. Viessmann make superb boilers. Can't go wrong.

On 2007-07-08 21:23:07 +0100, said:

On 8 Jul, 17:10, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.
People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him. It
will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the place.

Dribble, many have been telling you for your own good you need to seek
treatment. But you ignore them. So why do you expect others to take advice
from you?

Watch my lips. No combi made will suit my
requirements. Which *you* can't
possibly understand. Nor would I want one
which did even if it existed.

The 333 is a thermal store and boiler all in one box. A 1-box fit.
That will suit you OK that is certain, and most others. It will fit in
the same place as the old boiler as well. If your mains flow and
pressure is good enough, if I was you I would go for the 333, or a one
similar. It has a high hot water flow rate being a thermal store using
a plate heat exchnager. Viessmann make superb boilers. Can't go wrong.

Have you gone off of the Rhinitis ones now, Dr Drivel?

On 8 Jul, 20:38, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:41:31 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:52:55 UTC, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.

Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can be
DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then with high
pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap in the kitchen.

Discount the idea of the Viessman combi then...it cannot be a solution.

But I'm, fairly sure they do a system version. Even if they don't but you
like Viessman on quality and price, you could still install the combi with
the HW outlet capped off.

Why cap it when it can be used for a power shower.

On 8 Jul, 21:29, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-08 21:23:07 +0100, said:





On 8 Jul, 17:10, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.
People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him. It
will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the place.

Dribble, many have been telling you for your own good you need to seek
treatment. But you ignore them. So why do you expect others to take advice
from you?

Watch my lips. No combi made will suit my
requirements. Which *you* can't
possibly understand. Nor would I want one
which did even if it existed.

The 333 is a thermal store and boiler all in one box. A 1-box fit.
That will suit you OK that is certain, and most others. It will fit in
the same place as the old boiler as well. If your mains flow and
pressure is good enough, if I was you I would go for the 333, or a one
similar. It has a high hot water flow rate being a thermal store using
a plate heat exchnager. Viessmann make superb boilers. Can't go wrong.

Have you gone off of the Rhinitis ones now, Dr Drivel?- Hide quoted text -

Rintintin? That was an army dog !!!!!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably inappropriate
technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him. It
will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the place.

You are a plantpot, just take notice of people who know better than you.
There again don't. Do it all wrong and waste money. Yes, that is what you
need to do.

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.

80% efficiency for a 25 year old boiler sounds unusually high. The boiler
we had replaced a couple years ago wasn't much older then that and was
about 55% efficient.

Don't tell him that! Make him keep the old boiler and waste his money on
gas bills.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 14:10:22 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.


You should get about 15% saving if all the rest of the system is up to
current standards.

15%? He will save 1/3 of his gas bill. That old crock is sucking in his
money - oh sorry don't tell him.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
But do they make a boiler of the type I want? I'll do some searching.

The question is whether you specifically want a floor standing boiler
or one that will fit into the space vacated by one. If you can do
the latter, then there is very much more choice.

From: Dave Plowman (News)
Subject: Choosing a boiler - again.
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:40
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted.

Don't forget the
various models which can use 50mm muPVC pipe for flue and air supply.

There is no problem as it is on an outside wall well clear of windows etc.

As to the system aspect...... I can appreciate not wanting to have to
rip out pipes and home run the DHW and CH back to the boiler.
However, some system boilers have a pump but not a diverter valve.
In that scenario, all you would have to do is to take out the existing
pump and bridge the pipe work and use the pump in the boiler. That
should be minimally invasive.

Yes - a pump would be ok. Indeed if it modulates that speed it might make
more sense.

--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Ed Sirett wrote:
A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the
room along with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to
lift the floor to alter pipework.


The integral pump in a system boiler should not be a problem, just
replace the existing pump with a piece of pipe. I strongly advise going
to a sealed system.

OK.

Depending on whether the existing boiler is on an outside wall (Pott
Kingfisher 80 RS) or uses a chimney (Pott Kingfisher 80 CF) then the
approach will need to be different.

RS. The flue will be no problem.

If the flue is difficult then a Keston Celsius 25 is a good choice,
mine's been really reliable over 4 years, but others have not had such
good experience.

Otherwise a suitable Vaillant or Worcester would be fine.

Before taking out the old unit try to measure the gas inlet pressure if
it makes 18 mbar then you should be OK with a modern boiler. Sometimes
older boilers were installed with (grossly) inadequate pipework.

It's got a 28mm feed all the way from the meter with only the last foot or
so in 15mm. The 28mm pipe is also dead straight apart from one 90 degree
bend until the actual boiler connection, so I'd guess can handle
everything the supply can give.

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Ed Sirett wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 14:10:22 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency
of about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so
saving should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the
room it's in so now would seem the ideal time.


You should get about 15% saving if all the rest of the system is up to
current standards. If you need to add TRVs and/or a wall themrostat
and/or a cylinder thermostat you should get more.

The rest of the system is pretty well state of the art.

--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article . com,
wrote:
Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can
be DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then
with high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap
in the kitchen.

Discount the idea of the Viessman combi then...it cannot be a
solution.

But I'm, fairly sure they do a system version. Even if they don't but
you like Viessman on quality and price, you could still install the
combi with the HW outlet capped off.

Why cap it when it can be used for a power shower.

FFS, I already have a hot water system perfectly suited to my needs -
including two very decent showers.

I *don't* want or need a fooking combi. Is that too difficult for you to
understand?

--
*Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:43:39 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm going to replace my ultra reliable Potterton Kingfisher this summer.
It's an 80,000 BTU, floor standing, basic electrics room sealed type.
So what would be the best replacement? Having been used to such
reliability that is important - as is availability of any spares if
needed. Efficiency should also be near top of the class - obviously.

The boiler is sited in a cupboard, so could be either floor or wall
mounted. I intend doing the installation myself and having it finally
commissioned by a suitably qualified person.

A 'system' type boiler would not be very practical in this case - the
pump
and three port valve etc are situated at the other side of the room along
with the storage cylinder and I'd prefer not to have to lift the floor to
alter pipework.


The integral pump in a system boiler should not be a problem, just replace
the existing pump with a piece of pipe. I strongly advise going to a
sealed system.

Depending on whether the existing boiler is on an outside wall (Pott
Kingfisher 80 RS) or uses a chimney (Pott Kingfisher 80 CF) then the
approach will need to be different.

If the flue is difficult then a Keston Celsius 25 is a good choice,
mine's been really reliable over 4 years, but others have not had such
good experience.



Otherwise a suitable Vaillant or Worcester would be fine.

Before taking out the old unit try to measure the gas inlet pressure if it
makes 18 mbar then you should be OK with a modern boiler. Sometimes older
boilers were installed with (grossly) inadequate pipework.

ALL boilers should have dedicated pipe back to the meter.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:
Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can
be DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then
with high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap
in the kitchen.

Discount the idea of the Viessman combi then...it cannot be a
solution.

But I'm, fairly sure they do a system version. Even if they don't but
you like Viessman on quality and price, you could still install the
combi with the HW outlet capped off.

Why cap it when it can be used for a power shower.

FFS, I already have a hot water system perfectly suited to my needs -
including two very decent showers.

With a pump on each tap as well!!!! True, very true.

I *don't* want or need a fooking combi. Is that too difficult for you to
understand?

You need a combi, you really do.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
Viessman 333 floor mounted stored water (thermal store) combi - can
be DIYed. Top quality. Highly reliable. Simple to install. Then
with high pressure DHW you can get rid of the pump pumping one tap
in the kitchen.
Discount the idea of the Viessman combi then...it cannot be a
solution.
But I'm, fairly sure they do a system version. Even if they don't but
you like Viessman on quality and price, you could still install the
combi with the HW outlet capped off.

Why cap it when it can be used for a power shower.

FFS, I already have a hot water system perfectly suited to my needs -
including two very decent showers.

I *don't* want or need a fooking combi. Is that too difficult for you to
understand?

Don't let drivel get to you..

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably
inappropriate technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him.
It will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the
place.

You are a plantpot, just take notice of people who know better than you.
There again don't. Do it all wrong and waste money. Yes, that is what
you need to do.

You appear to be calling yourself a plantpot. For once I agree with you.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The integral pump in a system boiler should not be a problem, just replace
the existing pump with a piece of pipe. I strongly advise going to a
sealed system.

What is the advantage of a sealed over an open system?

I am asking as we currently have an ancient Baxi Bermuda back boiler and are
planning on replacing it soon, in our old house we had a Vaillant combi and
it was very good, but in this house there is an airing cupboard etc etc and
er indoors likes the idea of keeping it. As a result I am looking at getting
maybe a Vaillant 418 open boiler vs a system boiler. From what I can tell
the efficiency is not much different?

The message
from "RedOnRed" contains these words:

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.

80% efficiency for a 25 year old boiler sounds unusually high. The
boiler we
had replaced a couple years ago wasn't much older then that and was about
55% efficient.

I think Dave has got that wrong as well. On the SEDBUK database the
Kingfishers in the range 76 - 79% weren't manufactured prior to 1997. My
money would be on the earlier models at 65%.

--
Roger Chapman

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 01:49:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Notwithstanding the choice of model, and the presumably
inappropriate technology, Viessmann do make good quality products.

People like you should not presume. If he has a main good enough in
flow/pressure, then the Viessmann 333 is the ideal choice for him.
It will create space too and do away with his pumps all over the
place.

You are a plantpot, just take notice of people who know better than you.
There again don't. Do it all wrong and waste money. Yes, that is what
you need to do.

You appear to be calling yourself a plantpot. For once I agree with you.

What a lot of childish drivel! It sounds as if I'm standing in the
playground again. To all of you who are wasting my bandwith with
petty insults... Shut the **** up unless you have anything sensible
to say...

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:40:22 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"RedOnRed" wrote in message
.. .

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.

80% efficiency for a 25 year old boiler sounds unusually high. The boiler
we had replaced a couple years ago wasn't much older then that and was
about 55% efficient.

Don't tell him that! Make him keep the old boiler and waste his money on
gas bills.

You too Drivel... SHUT the **** up!

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:57:50 +0100, "RedOnRed" wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
Tournifreak wrote:
Can I ask why you want to change it? If it's so reliable it seems a
bit odd to get shot of it.

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.

80% efficiency for a 25 year old boiler sounds unusually high. The boiler we
had replaced a couple years ago wasn't much older then that and was about
55% efficient.


http://www.sedbuk.com/

Look up your boiler and find the correct figures, if it's there.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 08:17:09 +0100, Roger
wrote:

The message
from "RedOnRed" contains these words:

It's some 25 years old and can't go on for ever? And has an efficiency of
about 80%. My gas bills are over 1000 quid a year so a 20% or so saving
should be cost effective. I'm also intending re-decorating the room it's
in so now would seem the ideal time.

80% efficiency for a 25 year old boiler sounds unusually high. The
boiler we
had replaced a couple years ago wasn't much older then that and was about
55% efficient.

I think Dave has got that wrong as well. On the SEDBUK database the
Kingfishers in the range 76 - 79% weren't manufactured prior to 1997. My
money would be on the earlier models at 65%.

Beat me to it...