On 2007-07-06 19:48:06 +0100, (dmc) said:

In article , Andy Hall wrote:

3 year warranty don't forget.

3 year product lifetime.



Which sounds excellent to me for a tenner

Darren

Only if the product is usable in the first place. These cheap
sanders are so poorly engineered that the levels of vibration make them
unsuitable for all than short bursts of use.

"dmc" wrote in message ...
In article om,
Adam Aglionby wrote:

Certainly Aldi air tools are supplied by Wolf Omega with a 3 year
warranty and UK support phone line.

Interestingly they seem to be the source of the ferm stuff that
screwfix sell.

Screwfix do not sell Ferm any more.

In article , Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 09:46:40 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

and popping into Sainsburys only if they want 15 types of carrot to
choose from

I don't want that either - just good quality items of known origin and content


Our local Aldi is in Hythe which isn't exactly a cheap place. An Aldi and a
Waitrose have the place covered. Can't say I go in there that often but I
have been impressed with their fruit and veg. They seem to have very little
frige area for veg so it's all delivered fresh each day and stacked up
in the shop more like a traditional Green grocer (we are luck and still
have a couple of these left - not for long I suspect). The fruit and veg is
good and very cheap (I wouldn't like to say where it comes from though...)

The other things that they are brilliant for is basic dish washer tablets
(none of this crap 14-in-one do everything rubbish) and also for continental
food. The lidl Potato salad is *excellent* and *exactly* like it is in
germany (I have a german friend who shops there for just that!) and some of
the choritzo etc is miles ahead of anything you'll find in the normal
supermarkets IMO.

I must admit to being quite impressed at the quality of stuff. Wish they
would have more tills open though so it doesn't take forever to get
served :-(

Darren

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...


But Lidl/Aldi are a bit cleverer than Kwiksave. People are doing their
basic shop there and popping into Sainsburys only if they want 15 types of
carrot to choose from

Lidl is my local store now.. Its 200m closer than kwick save and 400m closer
than Asda.
Some of the stuff in Lidl is good some bad just like the other stores.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 19:48:06 +0100, (dmc) said:

In article , Andy Hall wrote:

3 year warranty don't forget.

3 year product lifetime.



Which sounds excellent to me for a tenner

Darren

Only if the product is usable in the first place. These cheap
sanders are so poorly engineered that the levels of vibration make them
unsuitable for all than short bursts of use.



I can honestly say vibration is minimal as I test Aldi's power tools before
deciding on keeping it so I can take it back the day after I bought it. :-)

On 2007-07-06 20:01:02 +0100, (dmc) said:

In article , Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 09:46:40 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

and popping into Sainsburys only if they want 15 types of carrot to
choose from

I don't want that either - just good quality items of known origin and content


Our local Aldi is in Hythe which isn't exactly a cheap place. An Aldi and a
Waitrose have the place covered. Can't say I go in there that often but I
have been impressed with their fruit and veg.

Waitrose is a far better choice.


They seem to have very little
frige area for veg so it's all delivered fresh each day and stacked up
in the shop more like a traditional Green grocer (we are luck and still
have a couple of these left - not for long I suspect). The fruit and veg is
good and very cheap (I wouldn't like to say where it comes from though...)

That's a problem for me. I won't buy food products without knowing
the origin.



The other things that they are brilliant for is basic dish washer tablets
(none of this crap 14-in-one do everything rubbish) and also for continental
food. The lidl Potato salad is *excellent* and *exactly* like it is in
germany (I have a german friend who shops there for just that!) and some of
the choritzo etc is miles ahead of anything you'll find in the normal
supermarkets IMO.

I can imagine that they could manage to import German produced foods
without too much incident. Unfortunately, there is very little German
food that I can or would want to eat - certainly not potato salad.



I must admit to being quite impressed at the quality of stuff. Wish they
would have more tills open though so it doesn't take forever to get
served :-(

I just won't tolerate that. There is no excuse for a queue longer
than 2 people in a supermarket. Any more than that and I walk out
because any possible cost saving is blown away by the wait.

On Jul 5, 8:19 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-05 19:31:32 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-05 18:44:56 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

It's pavlovian

Dogs come from breeders.

Only pedigree dogs

Of course.

Of course not fool have you never heard of cross breeders?

On Jul 6, 7:25 am, Andy Hall wrote:

Kwiksave have discovered that having/expanding to a lot of stores
doesn't lead to a solid business. If the business model is wrong, you
just go broke faster.

No they didn't. Are you IMM? You seem to be nursing this OT point
despite several attempts to put you out of our misery.

KwikSave sold up to Sommerfield who took the chain on to strip it of
its assets and let the unproductive shops fall off. The actual brand
took a bashing when the founder retired to live off the fat of the
land. I believe he then went into land development. No doubt giving
Sommerfield some pointers.

I dare say that all these super warehouses of the multi-complexes such
as Tesco's keep opening up -even in regions where employment has taken
a well advertised slump, are investments, as the land is usually prime
brown-field and their "warehouse" construction styles are very cheap
to build and run and can always convert to factory premises one day
when the pyramid topples.

None of which has got anything to do with the OP except of course that
you seem terminably unable to accept the fact that like Woolworth's
and Marx and Spencer's, Aldi (and Lidl) started out selling tools
cheaply, as opposed to selling cheap tools.

Any objections you have to fair competition or foul is your problem.
If you must, then by all means feel free to start your own thread on
the subject.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 17:32:17 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 15:37:13 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip
Also, talking of Tesco, the 0.50 ukp drop in Tesco's share price
in
the last couple of days and a general downward slide since they
gave a
UK profits warning, slashing it's product range in the last month
or
so, whilst reducing many prices might suggest that more and more
people are seeing the benefits of a more 'cash and carry'
approach
to
product display...

No it doesn't at all. If you look at the Tesco share price over
the last year, it has increased from around £3.50 to £4.20.
Quite

If they were doing things correctly there would not need to
announce a
profits warning!

If you look at the sector as a whole, none of it eciting at present.


That's total ********, it's in pretty good shape at present, those
that are dealing with problems are the ones who have sat on their
butts, become too arrogant or have stretched themselves one way or the
other (which is the problem with Tesco's ATM - IMO - they have
committed themselves to the USA (and other overseas) markets when many
in the industry were worrying that they might have problems doing so.

I might add at this point that my family has been involved in the food
industry (supply side) for the last 60 odd years. In fact if it had
not been for my fathers recommendation, to the board of the City of
London / Smithfield wholesale company that he worked for, to allow
Tesco to have credit when they wanted to open their first supermarket
there might never have been Tesco supermarkets.



reasonably if one announces a profit warning, one takes action
such
as cutting unprofitable elements to the business.


Hmm, what cut back the core business areas?

I said unprofitable elements to the business - e.g. slow moving and
low margin lines.

Hmm, the Henry Ford style of marketing, which only worked as long as
no one else was supplying cheap cars...

What Tesco's seem to be have been doing recently is only stocking what
they make the most profit on, not what have been fast and popular
lines, this is also how they can afford to cut prices without forcing
the supplier to cut their supply price - when that can't be done the
recipe gets altered, which can then force people away [1].

[1] IMPO when the label says "Improved Recipe" what they often mean is
'Cheapened Recipe'...



That is what tends to
secure a companies appointment with an official receiver (or other
'trouble shooter) - eventually - customers who can't get their
regular
baked Beans or what ever are as likely to visit the competition
than
change brands.

Then it won't be Lidldi will it.


But Lidl is not in trouble, nor are their parent company.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 19:47:11 +0100, (dmc) said:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:
On 2007-07-06 18:21:11 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new
for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit
repaired
under warranty.

.. and one day outside warranty?


For a ten quid sander you bin it and think "bloody hell, 3 years
use for a
tenner can't be bad" before buying another...

Darren (well, *you* wouldn't Andy but 99% of aldi customers would)

99% of Aldi customers probably would as you say. However, since
their market share is only around 2% on groceries, and I am sure
substantially less on tools, it doesn't even register. That
would even be assuming that the product was any good in the first
place.


More straw Andy, or are you know attempting to source it direct from
Australia - do you need a bigger shovel?...!

On 2007-07-06 20:15:49 +0100, Weatherlawyer said:

On Jul 5, 8:19 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-05 19:31:32 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-05 18:44:56 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

It's pavlovian

Dogs come from breeders.

Only pedigree dogs

Of course.

Of course not fool have you never heard of cross breeders?

Of course. It's a matter of choice.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 20:01:02 +0100, (dmc) said:

snip

I must admit to being quite impressed at the quality of stuff. Wish
they
would have more tills open though so it doesn't take forever to get
served :-(

I just won't tolerate that. There is no excuse for a queue longer
than 2 people in a supermarket. Any more than that and I walk out
because any possible cost saving is blown away by the wait.


Only if there is another supermarket (or a street full of traditional
shops) next door, even if it takes half an hour to get through the
check-out you're still never going to be able to travel to another
store, park, do your shopping again and then travel the extra distance
back in half an hour - never mind the time that you've wasted shopping
and then leaving your trolley / purchases in the middle of the shop
floor and walking out!

On 2007-07-06 19:49:40 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

You really are allowing your tool snobbery to get in the way of common
sense!

I think that you are becoming confused.

Most people won't be bothered at the price point being charged,
obviously if they were selling it at 99.99 rather than 9.99 ukp your
argument might have been valid.

The argument is perfectly valid.

Point 1. If the product isn't usable, then it really doesn't matter how
cheap it is.

Point 2. If time has to be wasted returning the product for
replacement or refund then there is a high cost for that, be it in real
cash or cash equivalent terms.

Point 3. If the product lifetime is limited, then the cost has to be
multiplied by the number of times longer a decent one would last, plus
the number of store visits to procure the replacements.

Once all of those are taken into account, the low priced item is far
from low priced.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Weatherlawyer
saying something like:

Dogs come from breeders.

Only pedigree dogs

Of course.

Of course not fool have you never heard of cross breeders?

There was Pluto, of course. He came from a fast breeder.
--

Dave

On 2007-07-06 20:33:10 +0100, Weatherlawyer said:


KwikSave sold up to Sommerfield who took the chain on to strip it of
its assets and let the unproductive shops fall off. The actual brand
took a bashing when the founder retired to live off the fat of the
land. I believe he then went into land development. No doubt giving
Sommerfield some pointers.

This is all irrelevant. The brand value was weak and the market share
and share price fizzled.




I dare say that all these super warehouses of the multi-complexes such
as Tesco's keep opening up -even in regions where employment has taken
a well advertised slump, are investments, as the land is usually prime
brown-field and their "warehouse" construction styles are very cheap
to build and run and can always convert to factory premises one day
when the pyramid topples.

That may or may not be a good investment.



None of which has got anything to do with the OP except of course that
you seem terminably unable to accept the fact that like Woolworth's
and Marx and Spencer's, Aldi (and Lidl) started out selling tools
cheaply, as opposed to selling cheap tools.

They are selling cheap tools cheaply with no proper service, which is
even worse.



Any objections you have to fair competition or foul is your problem.

There's nothing wrong with competition. The issue was about whether
or not a particular product was worth having, and the answer to that
one is clearly not for all the reasons given,

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "George"
saying something like:

That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is
this another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail
going to the tip?

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.
--

Dave

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.

You'd be lucky to get the same thing in the store - most of the 'special
offers' come and go, so a refund is much more likely.
--

Dave

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Oysters and champagne for you is it?

I don't buy champagne. If I want oysters, I buy them in France where they
are better and less expensive than in the UK.


Oysters and champagne.. both very over rated.. a bit like Prius.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 20:01:02 +0100, (dmc) said:

In article , Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 09:46:40 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

and popping into Sainsburys only if they want 15 types of carrot to
choose from

I don't want that either - just good quality items of known origin
and content


Our local Aldi is in Hythe which isn't exactly a cheap place. An Aldi
and a
Waitrose have the place covered. Can't say I go in there that often but I
have been impressed with their fruit and veg.

Waitrose is a far better choice.


They seem to have very little
frige area for veg so it's all delivered fresh each day and stacked up
in the shop more like a traditional Green grocer (we are luck and still
have a couple of these left - not for long I suspect). The fruit and
veg is
good and very cheap (I wouldn't like to say where it comes from
though...)

That's a problem for me. I won't buy food products without knowing the
origin.



The other things that they are brilliant for is basic dish washer tablets
(none of this crap 14-in-one do everything rubbish) and also for
continental
food. The lidl Potato salad is *excellent* and *exactly* like it is in
germany (I have a german friend who shops there for just that!) and
some of
the choritzo etc is miles ahead of anything you'll find in the normal
supermarkets IMO.

I can imagine that they could manage to import German produced foods
without too much incident. Unfortunately, there is very little German
food that I can or would want to eat - certainly not potato salad.



I must admit to being quite impressed at the quality of stuff. Wish they
would have more tills open though so it doesn't take forever to get
served :-(

I just won't tolerate that. There is no excuse for a queue longer
than 2 people in a supermarket. Any more than that and I walk out
because any possible cost saving is blown away by the wait.


You sound like an easy going kind of bloke.

On 2007-07-06 20:44:31 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

That's total ********, it's in pretty good shape at present,

Relative to what? To it's own terms of reference possibly, but flat
line trading for two years is hardly good shape in terms of the
requirements of the investment market.


those
that are dealing with problems are the ones who have sat on their
butts, become too arrogant or have stretched themselves one way or the
other (which is the problem with Tesco's ATM - IMO - they have
committed themselves to the USA (and other overseas) markets when many
in the industry were worrying that they might have problems doing so.

It's a business decision. Either it will work or it won't. If it
doesn't, then people will get fired. If it does, they will make nice
bonuses. Both as they should be.




I might add at this point that my family has been involved in the food
industry (supply side) for the last 60 odd years. In fact if it had
not been for my fathers recommendation, to the board of the City of
London / Smithfield wholesale company that he worked for, to allow
Tesco to have credit when they wanted to open their first supermarket
there might never have been Tesco supermarkets.

I am sure that Lady Porter owes you a debt of gratitude. Equally, I
am sure that the supply side owes her father a debt of gratitude.
It's just a pity that supermarkets in general (all of them) are meat
dispensers and not butchers, but that's another story.





reasonably if one announces a profit warning, one takes action
such
as cutting unprofitable elements to the business.


Hmm, what cut back the core business areas?

I said unprofitable elements to the business - e.g. slow moving and
low margin lines.

Hmm, the Henry Ford style of marketing, which only worked as long as
no one else was supplying cheap cars...

Once again this is making the assumption that price is the only trading
criterion. No wonder the UK food supply industry (the whole chain) is
so appalling.




What Tesco's seem to be have been doing recently is only stocking what
they make the most profit on, not what have been fast and popular
lines, this is also how they can afford to cut prices without forcing
the supplier to cut their supply price - when that can't be done the
recipe gets altered, which can then force people away [1].

Nothing wrong with profitable lines especially if it also results in a
raising of standards.



[1] IMPO when the label says "Improved Recipe" what they often mean is
'Cheapened Recipe'...

Quite.






That is what tends to
secure a companies appointment with an official receiver (or other
'trouble shooter) - eventually - customers who can't get their
regular
baked Beans or what ever are as likely to visit the competition
than
change brands.

Then it won't be Lidldi will it.


But Lidl is not in trouble, nor are their parent company.

It depends what you mean by "in trouble". If you mean 'are they
going to go broke'? Unfortunately not. 'Are they a success in the
UK market?'. Certainly not. Either they don't know what they are
doing or they are not seriously investing or the demand for what they
are peddling is minimal. There aren't any other reasons for such
poor market penetration.

On 2007-07-06 21:24:46 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
said:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "George"
saying something like:

That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is
this another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail
going to the tip?

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.
--

Dave

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.

You'd be lucky to get the same thing in the store - most of the 'special
offers' come and go, so a refund is much more likely.

Exactly. Then comes the PITA of finding the next POS.

On 2007-07-06 21:26:50 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Oysters and champagne for you is it?

I don't buy champagne. If I want oysters, I buy them in France where they
are better and less expensive than in the UK.


Oysters and champagne.. both very over rated.. a bit like Prius.

Oysters are OK but not special except for one or two particularly
interesting species. Champagne is certainly over rated, but I don't
drink fizzy sweet white anyway.

On 2007-07-06 21:29:19 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

You sound like an easy going kind of bloke.

I am. This does not mean that I will accept crappy service.
There's no excuse for it.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 18:09:52 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip

Otherwise, were are the Dewalt or Makita service counters within
B&Q etc.?...

That has precisely what to do with anything.?

Let's say I want to buy a new power tool. My steps for that are
first of all to research products and look at reviews in reasonably
well respected places. I will check to see that the manufacturer
has a good track record in that tool type - very important. That
will suggest that there is a good probability that they will have
continued.

I am only interested in manufacturers who offer proper spares and
service and do that job properly. That eliminates a lot of
products immediately.

Next is to research prices for the preferred short list from a
variety of sources.

If I am not sure between 3 or 4 products at that stage I may well
visit a tool store to take a look and touch for myself. A great
deal can be determined in this way. It can be interesting to
use B&Q at this stage since they do have a reasonable selection.
Otherwise, I may well order two or three tools and check them at
home, returning the unwanted ones. Buying from B&Q is irrelevant
because there is no responsibility for service and prices are high
anyway.


So the only place you buy your power tools from are the authorised
dealers, who offer a spares counter then, as no were else does or can
offer the service you say you require!

snip

Hmm, Kingfisher has had their own problems remember, the difference
is
that B&Q is the core business and unlikely to sold off unless the
sh*t
really hits the fan.

I am sure that if Home Depot came along tomorrow with an attractive
enough offer, they would sell B&Q immediately. Little would need
to change. Even the orange of the logo is the same, as is the
retail format. Lowes is much the same and are the worldwide number
2.

Yes, that's been discussed on this group before, the fact that it's
often been mooted (especially in the days when Kingfisher had real
problems) but it's never even come close (have they ever admitted to
talking to each other about such a sale / merger?) suggests that it's
unlikely - of course Kingfisher it's self might be taken over as a
whole.

snip

at least one can dump a tool on a counter in Wickes or Aldi
and get either a replacement or a refund!

That isn't service.

Don't be a silly nob, of course it is, anything that resolves the
issue is (customer) service. Are you seriously suggesting that if
(say) one of your DeWalt power tools went wrong during (or very soon
after) warranty and the dealer offered you a replacement or refund you
would not accept and demand the tool be repaired?

snip

Depends what you go there for, yes they are not solely a DIY /
woodworking hobby shed but in saying that my local one is *always*
busy and has become more so since it moved into an even larger
building - just because a business model doesn't meet the
requirement
of Mr Andy Hall doesn't mean that they are abject failures and will
/
is about to go bust.

No of course not. I can only speak as I see and from the
financials. Home Retail Group, which includes that other superstar
of the high street, Argos, has had flat performance for over two
years.
snip

Agreed, I just can't see how Argos is going to survive (as is) for
much longer, they can only now have the non internet connected and or
non debit / credit card holders as customers.

On 2007-07-06 20:59:35 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

99% of Aldi customers probably would as you say. However, since
their market share is only around 2% on groceries, and I am sure
substantially less on tools, it doesn't even register. That
would even be assuming that the product was any good in the first
place.


More straw Andy, or are you know attempting to source it direct from
Australia - do you need a bigger shovel?...!

Where you get this straw idea from, I have no idea. The central
points are entirely consistent and no fallacy of the position of others
is assumed. I have simply provided a variety reasons why not to buy
junk from irrelevant retailers. All that that assumes is that people
would entertain the idea of doing so in the first place. Of course if
they don't then that's another matter.

On 2007-07-06 21:13:49 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


Only if there is another supermarket (or a street full of traditional
shops) next door,

Often there is the former (or at least within reasonable driving
distance). Sadly, there is no longer the latter. That's entirely
because people want to buy on price and not on service.


even if it takes half an hour to get through the
check-out you're still never going to be able to travel to another
store, park, do your shopping again and then travel the extra distance
back in half an hour - never mind the time that you've wasted shopping
and then leaving your trolley / purchases in the middle of the shop
floor and walking out!

... or one could ask them to deliver.

I quite like Waitrose' system of barcode scanners (Quick Check) for JL
account customers. There is zero waiting with that, as it should be.
I wonder if Aldidl could run such a scheme....

If I am going to wait in a shop to pay, there should be a reason to do
so - e.g. that I am going to get some level of service - in other words
the service of the individual shop. There's a reason to wait for
that, assuming it really as some value.

OTOH, if it's just a person on a till mindlessly scanning items there
is no value added at all. I am having to select the items from the
shelf and then I'm expected to wait to pay? That's a nonsense. I
might as well do the whole job and make it *really* self service, then
I can go at the pace that I need or want to do..

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 20:44:31 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip

What Tesco's seem to be have been doing recently is only stocking
what
they make the most profit on, not what have been fast and popular
lines, this is also how they can afford to cut prices without
forcing
the supplier to cut their supply price - when that can't be done
the
recipe gets altered, which can then force people away [1].

Nothing wrong with profitable lines especially if it also results in
a raising of standards.



[1] IMPO when the label says "Improved Recipe" what they often mean
is
'Cheapened Recipe'...

Quite.


Contradict yourself Andy, why not....

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 20:59:35 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip

More straw Andy, or are you know attempting to source it direct
from
Australia - do you need a bigger shovel?...!

Where you get this straw idea from, I have no idea.

Your anti cheap tool arguments are often of the straw man type.

On 2007-07-06 21:43:57 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

So the only place you buy your power tools from are the authorised
dealers, who offer a spares counter then, as no were else does or can
offer the service you say you require!

Typically yes. I also ask them to match the lowest price I can find.
I never have problems with that. Thus I can get the lowest price
and good service.




snip

Hmm, Kingfisher has had their own problems remember, the difference
is
that B&Q is the core business and unlikely to sold off unless the
sh*t
really hits the fan.

I am sure that if Home Depot came along tomorrow with an attractive
enough offer, they would sell B&Q immediately. Little would need
to change. Even the orange of the logo is the same, as is the
retail format. Lowes is much the same and are the worldwide number
2.

Yes, that's been discussed on this group before, the fact that it's
often been mooted (especially in the days when Kingfisher had real
problems) but it's never even come close (have they ever admitted to
talking to each other about such a sale / merger?) suggests that it's
unlikely - of course Kingfisher it's self might be taken over as a
whole.

Assimilated by the Borg it is called.




snip

at least one can dump a tool on a counter in Wickes or Aldi
and get either a replacement or a refund!

That isn't service.

Don't be a silly nob, of course it is, anything that resolves the
issue is (customer) service.

No it isn't. The issue is how many times is that going to happen.

I'll give you an example.

Some moons ago, I bought a B&D Scorpion saw, mainly for branch trimming
in the garden and similar work. It was a pile of junk. On the first
one the mechanism locked and jammed. It was returned to B&Q and
replaced. The replacement began smoking immediately the trigger was
pulled. That went back. B&Q wanted to replace it again. Nope.
Refund. Moreover, cost of fuel and £25 in store vouchers on top.
That doesn't cover the actual cost of the time but at least it was a
good gesture and they didn't have to be squeezed too hard for it.


Are you seriously suggesting that if
(say) one of your DeWalt power tools went wrong during (or very soon
after) warranty and the dealer offered you a replacement or refund you
would not accept and demand the tool be repaired?

Different issue. The more important points are whether the same or a
better product are available or another has to be found - the successor
may be crap - and what happens at the end of the warranty. If I
think that there is a fair likelihood of needing to use a warranty, I
almost certainly won't buy the product.




Agreed, I just can't see how Argos is going to survive (as is) for
much longer, they can only now have the non internet connected and or
non debit / credit card holders as customers.

The only value I can see is if one needs to get a product really
quickly. A few months ago, I needed to obtain an iron within an
hour. I was able to check stock on line, order and collect and done.

Shopping in there reminds me of a tombola stall. I half expect
customers to be throwing rubber rings over the racks of items behind
the counter.

On 2007-07-06 22:10:26 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 20:44:31 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip

What Tesco's seem to be have been doing recently is only stocking
what
they make the most profit on, not what have been fast and popular
lines, this is also how they can afford to cut prices without
forcing
the supplier to cut their supply price - when that can't be done
the
recipe gets altered, which can then force people away [1].

Nothing wrong with profitable lines especially if it also results in
a raising of standards.



[1] IMPO when the label says "Improved Recipe" what they often mean
is
'Cheapened Recipe'...

Quite.


Contradict yourself Andy, why not....

I think you're getting lost, Jerry. There's no contradiction.

The other great marketing lie is "new size". Smaller.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 22:10:26 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 20:44:31 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip

What Tesco's seem to be have been doing recently is only stocking
what
they make the most profit on, not what have been fast and popular
lines, this is also how they can afford to cut prices without
forcing
the supplier to cut their supply price - when that can't be done
the
recipe gets altered, which can then force people away [1].

Nothing wrong with profitable lines especially if it also results
in
a raising of standards.



[1] IMPO when the label says "Improved Recipe" what they often
mean
is
'Cheapened Recipe'...

Quite.


Contradict yourself Andy, why not....

I think you're getting lost, Jerry. There's no contradiction.


If you knew anything about the industry you would know that there is
one hell of a contradiction. :~(

On 2007-07-06 22:17:42 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 20:59:35 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip

More straw Andy, or are you know attempting to source it direct
from
Australia - do you need a bigger shovel?...!

Where you get this straw idea from, I have no idea.

Your anti cheap tool arguments are often of the straw man type.

Not really. The reasons as to why not are clearly explained. A straw
man argument is where the position of the other party is erroneously
assumed.

If somebody suggests or asks about sourcing a "product of limited
value" to be kind about it, then it is reasonable and not erroneous to
assume that they may at least be fleetingly considering its purchase.
Under those circumstances, it's entirely reasonable to point out that
there are many other things in the value equation than price. By
definition, it is not a straw man argument.

":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 20:44:31 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

snip

What Tesco's seem to be have been doing recently is only stocking what
they make the most profit on, not what have been fast and popular
lines, this is also how they can afford to cut prices without forcing
the supplier to cut their supply price - when that can't be done the
recipe gets altered, which can then force people away [1].

Nothing wrong with profitable lines especially if it also results in a
raising of standards.



[1] IMPO when the label says "Improved Recipe" what they often mean is
'Cheapened Recipe'...

Quite.


Contradict yourself Andy, why not....

You will get used to this.

On 2007-07-06 22:30:39 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


If you knew anything about the industry you would know that there is
one hell of a contradiction. :~(

Then it's even worse than I feared.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Oysters and champagne for you is it?

I don't buy champagne. If I want oysters, I buy them in France
where they are better and less expensive than in the UK.


Is that because the oysters are French bred?

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 21:13:49 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


Only if there is another supermarket (or a street full of traditional
shops) next door,

Often there is the former (or at least within reasonable driving
distance). Sadly, there is no longer the latter. That's entirely
because people want to buy on price and not on service.

Or perhaps its because the supermarkets have more choice, longer opening
hours, bigger range?

The darstadly fiends have given the punters what they want!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2007-07-06 23:30:03 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Oysters and champagne for you is it?

I don't buy champagne. If I want oysters, I buy them in France
where they are better and less expensive than in the UK.


Is that because the oysters are French bred?

Weee.....lllllll

Those from the Brittany coast are pretty good.

Many that arrive in the UK are from the Pacific. They are large, but
without worthwhile flavour - a real baguettelle in fact.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 15:39:37 +0100, Adam Aglionby said:

Certainly Aldi air tools are supplied by Wolf Omega with a 3 year
warranty and UK support phone line. Computer stuff always has a UK
support line no as well.
Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.



That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is this
another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail going to
the tip?



Why do you care?
As long as you get a fixed/working product does it matter if its new or
repaired?

On 2007-07-06 23:33:52 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 21:13:49 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


Only if there is another supermarket (or a street full of traditional
shops) next door,

Often there is the former (or at least within reasonable driving
distance). Sadly, there is no longer the latter. That's entirely
because people want to buy on price and not on service.

Or perhaps its because the supermarkets have more choice, longer opening
hours, bigger range?

The darstadly fiends have given the punters what they want!

I don't think the punters really know what they do want.

It's perfectly possible to get the quality and merchandising of food
right. For example, a while back I went into a Carrefour store in
one of the suburbs of Paris - not a particularly upmarket area at all
on the east side. It could be the proximity of Eurodisney.

At any rate, they had a proper fish counter with live crustacea in
tanks of pumped seawater, any other fish you could think of. There
was a proper vegetable counter, correctly presented. Same for the meat.

All of this is before one looks at the individual shops.

None of these are particularly expensive but quality is high.

In the UK, presentation and quality are awful by comparison. Some of
the organic produce is reasonable, but that's about it.

It relates to wanting to buy cheaply regardless of the quality and then
accepting any old crap.

There is better.

On 2007-07-06 23:51:54 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 15:39:37 +0100, Adam Aglionby said:

Certainly Aldi air tools are supplied by Wolf Omega with a 3 year
warranty and UK support phone line. Computer stuff always has a UK
support line no as well.
Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.



That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is this
another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail going to
the tip?



Why do you care?
As long as you get a fixed/working product does it matter if its new or
repaired?

Sigh.

At the end of the warranty?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

That's a problem for me. I won't buy food products without knowing the
origin.


To what level of accuracy/precision?.. EU? GB? England? Somerset? Post code
of farm?