On 2007-07-06 10:04:32 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-05 18:05:04 +0100, "George"
said:

snip
Each should stick to its core business and do it properly.


That rational would mean the end of the DIY 'sheds' and their one stop
shopping...

No because they sell items that are related to DIY only - at least the
more successful ones do. Have a think about which are the most
successful and which are the least.

B&Q is the most successful by pretty much all the measures. Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely have
people in them and they are using floor space. Focus is even worse
with pet sections and until recently crafts. As a result, they don't
have the space to have the range of goods for the primary market.
The formula demonstrably doesn't work.

:Jerry: wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
snip
The new Lidl in Leatherhead is a raving success.
Those stockbrokers are all cheapskates at heart

If it's anything like the Lidl's around here it's because they have
second a (or third...) house in Europe and realise that the UK's
retail obsession with paying people to fill shelves just forces the
costs up (and thus price) and that the products stocked by Lidl's are
the same as what Lidl's and others sell abroad.



I rather like shopping there. Less stressful than the big supermarkets.
Same (or better) food, half the price, and half the staff. They don't do
truffles though, so I still have to send the chauffeur up to Fortnum's.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
news snip

I rather like shopping there. Less stressful than the big
supermarkets. Same (or better) food, half the price, and half the
staff. They don't do truffles though, so I still have to send the
chauffeur up to Fortnum's.

You mean you don't get them to deliver?...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

snip

I don't want that either - just good quality items of known origin
and content


Best you own your own farm and live the "Good Life" - that's the only
way you are going to know the origin and content of anything you might
buy in a shop...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 10:09:51 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-05 22:20:47 +0100, Owain

said:

Andy Hall wrote:
I wouldn't go to Axminster Power Tools to buy cucumbers and flax
seed, so it's bemusing that a food supermarket would be selling
power tools. Each should stick to its core business and do it
properly.

But Aldi's core business is buying things cheap and selling
things
cheap (but at a profit).

Based on their market share, there doesn't seem to be that much
interest in that.
snip

At one time B&Q only had a 1% market share!

That's true, but it grew really rather rapidly.

Lidl and Aldi have been in the market for many years and their
market share still hovers around 1-5-2% with little change.

In the UK, true, but then again they have only been playing,
establishing a presence, much like Tesco did (abroad) for many years.



More straw Andy?...

Nope. Just solid market data.


Yes, on the price of straw! :~)

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 09:46:40 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 01:33:31 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
But Aldi's core business is buying things cheap and selling things
cheap (but at a profit).

Based on their market share, there doesn't seem to be that much
interest in that.

They are expanding quickly - at least in S London. While the smaller UK
chains are in trouble.

I could imagine that their expansion (although it's 0.1 - 0.2% in 2%
range) would be at the expense of Somerfield and the like; but did
you mean in the sense of opening more stores or more people in
them? Kwiksave have discovered that having/expanding to a lot of
stores doesn't lead to a solid business. If the business model is
wrong, you just go broke faster.



But Lidl/Aldi are a bit cleverer than Kwiksave. People are doing their
basic shop there

Which people

Normal people. You know, the ones that probably fuel your retail portfolio.

and what basic shop? I don't really buy "basic shop"
things like cornflakes and cans of beans.

Oysters and champagne for you is it?


and popping into Sainsburys only if they want 15 types of carrot to
choose from

I don't want that either - just good quality items of known origin and
content

If you can verify that, you must either have too much time on your hands
or be slightly gullible.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 10:04:32 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-05 18:05:04 +0100, "George"
said:

snip
Each should stick to its core business and do it properly.


That rational would mean the end of the DIY 'sheds' and their one
stop
shopping...

No because they sell items that are related to DIY only - at least
the more successful ones do. Have a think about which are the most
successful and which are the least.

B&Q is the most successful by pretty much all the measures.

B&Q have done more to damage to those DIY (and some trade) core
business who do want to do it properly than anyone else, try finding a
member of staff in B&Q who really knows the product they are
attempting to sell.

Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

But they all buy in on price and then sell on price, which is what
companies like Aldi do - if Aldi were to buy in a production run of
(say) Makita and brand them as 'Tool-Time' as a loss-leader I bet you
would still use the same arguments about market position and price
point...


One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely have
people in them and they are using floor space.

Many people actually prefer(ed) Homebase due to that.

Focus is even worse
with pet sections and until recently crafts. As a result, they
don't have the space to have the range of goods for the primary
market. The formula demonstrably doesn't work.


Indeed, has Focus never really got their act together, ISTM that they
tried to be a cross between the (worst aspects of) 'Do it All' and
'Fads' - OK for the casual shopper who just wants to tart up a room
with a couple of rolls of wall paper or a pot of paint, and then
remembers that they also need some brushes or what ever whilst
in-store.

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:16:02 GMT Stuart Noble wrote :
Those stockbrokers are all cheapskates at heart

One day, when discussing such things, my brother said to me "why do
you buy your food at Farmfoods [Lidl-style food shop] when you are
so rich*". Then he paused and said "you're rich because you buy
your food at Farmfoods".

I guess I could be considered to be tight, but that's a legacy of
having lived on the brink of going broke in the early 90s.

*relative term, M'lud.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

:Jerry: wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 10:04:32 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-05 18:05:04 +0100, "George"
said:

snip
Each should stick to its core business and do it properly.

That rational would mean the end of the DIY 'sheds' and their one
stop
shopping...
No because they sell items that are related to DIY only - at least
the more successful ones do. Have a think about which are the most
successful and which are the least.

B&Q is the most successful by pretty much all the measures.

B&Q have done more to damage to those DIY (and some trade) core
business who do want to do it properly than anyone else, try finding a
member of staff in B&Q who really knows the product they are
attempting to sell.

Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

But they all buy in on price and then sell on price, which is what
companies like Aldi do - if Aldi were to buy in a production run of
(say) Makita and brand them as 'Tool-Time' as a loss-leader I bet you
would still use the same arguments about market position and price
point...

One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely have
people in them and they are using floor space.

Many people actually prefer(ed) Homebase due to that.

Focus is even worse
with pet sections and until recently crafts. As a result, they
don't have the space to have the range of goods for the primary
market. The formula demonstrably doesn't work.


Indeed, has Focus never really got their act together, ISTM that they
tried to be a cross between the (worst aspects of) 'Do it All' and
'Fads' - OK for the casual shopper who just wants to tart up a room
with a couple of rolls of wall paper or a pot of paint, and then
remembers that they also need some brushes or what ever whilst
in-store.



I'd use my local Focus more if they stocked the shelves more than once a
year and put price tickets on things. Not a lot to ask, but they persist
in doing neither. You can easily go bust with a good business plan if
you don't attend to the nitty gritty.
That reminds me, they also manage to stab every bag of sand or cement
with their fork-lift, but all the sheds do that, and one wonders how you
deal with a product that weighs 25kgs and on which you probably make
tuppence profit.

Stuart Noble wrote:




I'd use my local Focus more if they stocked the shelves more than
once a year and put price tickets on things. Not a lot to ask, but
they persist in doing neither. You can easily go bust with a good
business plan if you don't attend to the nitty gritty.

That reminds me, they also manage to stab every bag of sand or cement
with their fork-lift, but all the sheds do that, and one wonders how
you deal with a product that weighs 25kgs and on which you probably
make tuppence profit.

Wickes do that & I like it! You can blag money off & you get a free rubble
sack thrown in!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

:Jerry: wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
news snip
I rather like shopping there. Less stressful than the big
supermarkets. Same (or better) food, half the price, and half the
staff. They don't do truffles though, so I still have to send the
chauffeur up to Fortnum's.

You mean you don't get them to deliver?...



No, it only encourages poor people to congregate outside hoping for a
few scraps.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:


I'd use my local Focus more if they stocked the shelves more than
once a year and put price tickets on things. Not a lot to ask, but
they persist in doing neither. You can easily go bust with a good
business plan if you don't attend to the nitty gritty.

That reminds me, they also manage to stab every bag of sand or cement
with their fork-lift, but all the sheds do that, and one wonders how
you deal with a product that weighs 25kgs and on which you probably
make tuppence profit.

Wickes do that & I like it! You can blag money off & you get a free rubble
sack thrown in!



Things must be tight in the handyman business :-)

On 2007-07-06 12:40:15 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

But Lidl/Aldi are a bit cleverer than Kwiksave. People are doing their
basic shop there

Which people

Normal people. You know, the ones that probably fuel your retail portfolio.

Everybody with investments such as ISAs, pension schemes, unit trusts
etc. probably has some level in retail.



and what basic shop? I don't really buy "basic shop"
things like cornflakes and cans of beans.

Oysters and champagne for you is it?

I don't buy champagne. If I want oysters, I buy them in France where
they are better and less expensive than in the UK.



and popping into Sainsburys only if they want 15 types of carrot to
choose from

I don't want that either - just good quality items of known origin and content

If you can verify that, you must either have too much time on your
hands or be slightly gullible.

Neither. I am just very picky about what I eat and what I buy to eat.

On 2007-07-06 12:36:01 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

At one time B&Q only had a 1% market share!

That's true, but it grew really rather rapidly.

Lidl and Aldi have been in the market for many years and their
market share still hovers around 1-5-2% with little change.

In the UK, true, but then again they have only been playing,

People who play at business usually don't succeed.


establishing a presence, much like Tesco did (abroad) for many years.

Except that Tesco did it properly.

On 2007-07-06 12:56:09 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

B&Q have done more to damage to those DIY (and some trade) core
business who do want to do it properly than anyone else, try finding a
member of staff in B&Q who really knows the product they are
attempting to sell.

Actually you can. The time to go for that is Sunday mornings when
students from eastern Europe are working there. They tend to be very
knowledgable, polite and helpful.



Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

But they all buy in on price and then sell on price, which is what
companies like Aldi do

Which is probably why they are also unsuccessful.



- if Aldi were to buy in a production run of
(say) Makita and brand them as 'Tool-Time' as a loss-leader I bet you
would still use the same arguments about market position and price
point...

The issue is about service and support.




One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely have
people in them and they are using floor space.

Many people actually prefer(ed) Homebase due to that.

The results suggest otherwise. If they did prefer it, they didn't
prefer it enough to spend good money there.




Focus is even worse
with pet sections and until recently crafts. As a result, they
don't have the space to have the range of goods for the primary
market. The formula demonstrably doesn't work.


Indeed, has Focus never really got their act together, ISTM that they
tried to be a cross between the (worst aspects of) 'Do it All' and
'Fads' - OK for the casual shopper who just wants to tart up a room
with a couple of rolls of wall paper or a pot of paint, and then
remembers that they also need some brushes or what ever whilst
in-store.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 12:36:01 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

At one time B&Q only had a 1% market share!

That's true, but it grew really rather rapidly.

Lidl and Aldi have been in the market for many years and their
market share still hovers around 1-5-2% with little change.

In the UK, true, but then again they have only been playing,

People who play at business usually don't succeed.

I was using the word 'playing' rather sarcastically.



establishing a presence, much like Tesco did (abroad) for many
years.

Except that Tesco did it properly.



So that would be why Lidl is still expanding in the UK, doing in
incorrectly and not making any money out of their UK operations?...

Also, talking of Tesco, the 0.50 ukp drop in Tesco's share price in
the last couple of days and a general downward slide since they gave a
UK profits warning, slashing it's product range in the last month or
so, whilst reducing many prices might suggest that more and more
people are seeing the benefits of a more 'cash and carry' approach to
product display...

On Jul 5, 8:28 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-05 19:17:16 +0100, "George" said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message
I wouldn't go to Axminster Power Tools to buy cucumbers and flax seed,
so it's bemusing that a food supermarket would be selling power tools.
Each should stick to its core business and do it properly.

So are you saying high street chain department stores should stop selling
food and wines and stick to selling household ware,clothes ect?

Customer service would be far better if retailers focused on a core
business and did that properly.

To the case in point -

Yesterday I needed a couple of spare parts for a Bosch workshop vacuum
cleaner purchased from them a while ago. I identified the model on
Bosch's web site and quickly found the spare, name and part number from
an exploded diagram.

Knowing that Bosch don't supply direct, but through resellers, I called
up Axminster, spoke to their technical department and asked them to
source the parts for me. They called me back 5 minutes later with
price and delivery. Product was ordered and will be here tomorrow.

If I look on Aldi's site, I don't see the number to call for their
technical department for power tools, nor do I see where to order spare
parts.

Certainly Aldi air tools are supplied by Wolf Omega with a 3 year
warranty and UK support phone line. Computer stuff always has a UK
support line no as well.
Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.

Adam


Based on their marketing information, it appears that their
product managers haven't the feintest idea of what a power tool really
is.

I might just about believe that they could tell me where the cucumbers
are, but could probably not describe the nutrtitional content (or
rather the lack of it) in cornflakes.

On 2007-07-06 15:39:37 +0100, Adam Aglionby said:

Certainly Aldi air tools are supplied by Wolf Omega with a 3 year
warranty and UK support phone line. Computer stuff always has a UK
support line no as well.
Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.



That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is
this another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail
going to the tip?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 12:56:09 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

B&Q have done more to damage to those DIY (and some trade) core
business who do want to do it properly than anyone else, try
finding a
member of staff in B&Q who really knows the product they are
attempting to sell.

Actually you can. The time to go for that is Sunday mornings when
students from eastern Europe are working there. They tend to be
very knowledgable, polite and helpful.

Yes, about the own brand power tools that are made in the former
eastern block countries... Their knowledge is only as good as either
their training or practical experience with the product.




Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

But they all buy in on price and then sell on price, which is what
companies like Aldi do

Which is probably why they are also unsuccessful.


B&Q, Wickes unsuccessful, if you say so!...



- if Aldi were to buy in a production run of
(say) Makita and brand them as 'Tool-Time' as a loss-leader I bet
you
would still use the same arguments about market position and price
point...

The issue is about service and support.


More straw Andy?




One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely
have
people in them and they are using floor space.

Many people actually prefer(ed) Homebase due to that.

The results suggest otherwise. If they did prefer it, they didn't
prefer it enough to spend good money there.


Rubbish, Homebase was (at the time of it's sell off from the JS group)
making more money than the food sector - that is why the JS group sold
it off, to raise money to save the core business.

Stuart Noble wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:


I'd use my local Focus more if they stocked the shelves more than
once a year and put price tickets on things. Not a lot to ask, but
they persist in doing neither. You can easily go bust with a good
business plan if you don't attend to the nitty gritty.

That reminds me, they also manage to stab every bag of sand or
cement with their fork-lift, but all the sheds do that, and one
wonders how you deal with a product that weighs 25kgs and on which
you probably make tuppence profit.

Wickes do that & I like it! You can blag money off & you get a free
rubble sack thrown in!



Things must be tight in the handyman business :-)

Its the handyman who is tight :-)


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Jul 6, 3:44 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 15:39:37 +0100, Adam Aglionby said:



Certainly Aldi air tools are supplied by Wolf Omega with a 3 year
warranty and UK support phone line. Computer stuff always has a UK
support line no as well.
Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.

That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is
this another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail
going to the tip?

TBH guess the latter.

Adam

On 2007-07-06 15:37:13 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 12:36:01 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

At one time B&Q only had a 1% market share!

That's true, but it grew really rather rapidly.

Lidl and Aldi have been in the market for many years and their
market share still hovers around 1-5-2% with little change.

In the UK, true, but then again they have only been playing,

People who play at business usually don't succeed.

I was using the word 'playing' rather sarcastically.



establishing a presence, much like Tesco did (abroad) for many
years.

Except that Tesco did it properly.



So that would be why Lidl is still expanding in the UK, doing in
incorrectly and not making any money out of their UK operations?...

The expansion is infinitessimal. 0.1 - 0.2% change in a 2% or less
market share is noise.


Also, talking of Tesco, the 0.50 ukp drop in Tesco's share price in
the last couple of days and a general downward slide since they gave a
UK profits warning, slashing it's product range in the last month or
so, whilst reducing many prices might suggest that more and more
people are seeing the benefits of a more 'cash and carry' approach to
product display...

No it doesn't at all. If you look at the Tesco share price over the
last year, it has increased from around £3.50 to £4.20. Quite
reasonably if one announces a profit warning, one takes action such as
cutting unprofitable elements to the business.

On 2007-07-06 15:51:17 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 12:56:09 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

B&Q have done more to damage to those DIY (and some trade) core
business who do want to do it properly than anyone else, try
finding a
member of staff in B&Q who really knows the product they are
attempting to sell.

Actually you can. The time to go for that is Sunday mornings when
students from eastern Europe are working there. They tend to be
very knowledgable, polite and helpful.

Yes, about the own brand power tools that are made in the former
eastern block countries...

A rather cheap remark.

Their knowledge is only as good as either
their training or practical experience with the product.

I was referring more to the attitiude about customer service where they
will take the trouble to find things or find out when delivery will be
rather than the surly rudeness in Focus.

I only expect to find product knowledge about a power tool from a
specialist tool reseller such as Axminster or the manufactuer
themselves.








Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

But they all buy in on price and then sell on price, which is what
companies like Aldi do

Which is probably why they are also unsuccessful.


B&Q, Wickes unsuccessful, if you say so!...

If you look upwards a few lines you will notice that the comments about
lack of success relate to Homebase and Focus. Wickes is hardly a
success story either, having been sold numerous times.




- if Aldi were to buy in a production run of
(say) Makita and brand them as 'Tool-Time' as a loss-leader I bet
you
would still use the same arguments about market position and price
point...

The issue is about service and support.


More straw Andy?

Service and support. Do you find those concepts hard to understand.?






One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely
have
people in them and they are using floor space.

Many people actually prefer(ed) Homebase due to that.

The results suggest otherwise. If they did prefer it, they didn't
prefer it enough to spend good money there.


Rubbish, Homebase was (at the time of it's sell off from the JS group)
making more money than the food sector - that is why the JS group sold
it off, to raise money to save the core business.

.... and since then it has slid interminably.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Hall
saying something like:

Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.



That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is
this another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail
going to the tip?

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.
--

Dave

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Hall
saying something like:

Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.



That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is
this another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail
going to the tip?

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.
--

Dave

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 15:37:13 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip
Also, talking of Tesco, the 0.50 ukp drop in Tesco's share price in
the last couple of days and a general downward slide since they
gave a
UK profits warning, slashing it's product range in the last month
or
so, whilst reducing many prices might suggest that more and more
people are seeing the benefits of a more 'cash and carry' approach
to
product display...

No it doesn't at all. If you look at the Tesco share price over
the last year, it has increased from around £3.50 to £4.20.
Quite

If they were doing things correctly there would not need to announce a
profits warning!

reasonably if one announces a profit warning, one takes action such
as cutting unprofitable elements to the business.


Hmm, what cut back the core business areas? That is what tends to
secure a companies appointment with an official receiver (or other
'trouble shooter) - eventually - customers who can't get their regular
baked Beans or what ever are as likely to visit the competition than
change brands.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 15:51:17 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 12:56:09 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

B&Q have done more to damage to those DIY (and some trade) core
business who do want to do it properly than anyone else, try
finding a
member of staff in B&Q who really knows the product they are
attempting to sell.

Actually you can. The time to go for that is Sunday mornings
when
students from eastern Europe are working there. They tend to be
very knowledgable, polite and helpful.

Yes, about the own brand power tools that are made in the former
eastern block countries...

A rather cheap remark.


Not at all. If I walked into Wickes and wanted to know about their
un-badged Kress power tools I would hold very highly such a person
with such product knowledge - just as a would bow to a mechanic from
the former eastern block and his (or her) knowledge about Trabants or
Wartburg's (sp?). That same would be true were a US tool, that is new
to the UK, was concerned.

Their knowledge is only as good as either
their training or practical experience with the product.

I was referring more to the attitiude about customer service where
they will take the trouble to find things or find out when delivery
will be rather than the surly rudeness in Focus.

We were talking about product knowledge, not delivery and you know
it - More straw Andy?...


I only expect to find product knowledge about a power tool from a
specialist tool reseller such as Axminster or the manufactuer
themselves.

Exactly! But you were extolling the virtues of one shed buying and
selling on price alone but then slagging off another that does the
same. Otherwise, were are the Dewalt or Makita service counters within
B&Q etc.?...









Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

But they all buy in on price and then sell on price, which is
what
companies like Aldi do

Which is probably why they are also unsuccessful.


B&Q, Wickes unsuccessful, if you say so!...

If you look upwards a few lines you will notice that the comments
about lack of success relate to Homebase and Focus. Wickes is
hardly a success story either, having been sold numerous times.

Hmm, Kingfisher has had their own problems remember, the difference is
that B&Q is the core business and unlikely to sold off unless the sh*t
really hits the fan. B&Q it's self has had more than it's own share of
problems, mostly sorted now, but problems that adversely effected the
profits.





- if Aldi were to buy in a production run of
(say) Makita and brand them as 'Tool-Time' as a loss-leader I bet
you
would still use the same arguments about market position and
price
point...

The issue is about service and support.


More straw Andy?

Service and support. Do you find those concepts hard to
understand.?

What service and support does one get from a virtual shed (such as
ScrewFux), at least one can dump a tool on a counter in Wickes or Aldi
and get either a replacement or a refund!







One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely
have
people in them and they are using floor space.

Many people actually prefer(ed) Homebase due to that.

The results suggest otherwise. If they did prefer it, they didn't
prefer it enough to spend good money there.


Rubbish, Homebase was (at the time of it's sell off from the JS
group)
making more money than the food sector - that is why the JS group
sold
it off, to raise money to save the core business.

... and since then it has slid interminably.


Depends what you go there for, yes they are not solely a DIY /
woodworking hobby shed but in saying that my local one is *always*
busy and has become more so since it moved into an even larger
building - just because a business model doesn't meet the requirement
of Mr Andy Hall doesn't mean that they are abject failures and will /
is about to go bust.

"George" wrote in message
k...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...

snip

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl
under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back
to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want
to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days
its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.


Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit repaired
under warranty.

":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"George" wrote in message
k...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...

snip

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl
under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back
to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want
to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days
its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.


Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit repaired
under warranty.



It states on the warranty...
During the warranty period,the sales receipt and completed warranty card
with a description of the fault must be returned once you have contacted the
service center by phone(Irish number).
A new appliance will be returned

On 2007-07-06 17:28:27 +0100, "George" said:


"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Hall
saying something like:

Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.



That doesn't answer the question. Is there spares and service or is
this another case of playing the numbers game with products that fail
going to the tip?

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.
--

Dave

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days its not
viable to repair items.

It is if they are of good quality, although less likely to be required.

3 year warranty don't forget.

3 year product lifetime.

On 2007-07-06 18:21:11 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"George" wrote in message
k...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...

snip

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl
under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back
to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want
to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days
its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.


Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit repaired
under warranty.

... and one day outside warranty?

On 2007-07-06 17:32:17 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 15:37:13 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

snip
Also, talking of Tesco, the 0.50 ukp drop in Tesco's share price in
the last couple of days and a general downward slide since they
gave a
UK profits warning, slashing it's product range in the last month
or
so, whilst reducing many prices might suggest that more and more
people are seeing the benefits of a more 'cash and carry' approach
to
product display...

No it doesn't at all. If you look at the Tesco share price over
the last year, it has increased from around £3.50 to £4.20.
Quite

If they were doing things correctly there would not need to announce a
profits warning!

If you look at the sector as a whole, none of it eciting at present.



reasonably if one announces a profit warning, one takes action such
as cutting unprofitable elements to the business.


Hmm, what cut back the core business areas?

I said unprofitable elements to the business - e.g. slow moving and low
margin lines.


That is what tends to
secure a companies appointment with an official receiver (or other
'trouble shooter) - eventually - customers who can't get their regular
baked Beans or what ever are as likely to visit the competition than
change brands.

Then it won't be Lidldi will it.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 18:21:11 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"George" wrote in message
k...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...

snip

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl
under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back
to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you want
to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these days
its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.


Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit repaired
under warranty.

.. and one day outside warranty?



That means you have had 2 years, 365.242199 days use out of the tool...not
bad for £10 don't ya think :-)

In article om,
Adam Aglionby wrote:

Certainly Aldi air tools are supplied by Wolf Omega with a 3 year
warranty and UK support phone line.

Interestingly they seem to be the source of the ferm stuff that
screwfix sell.

Computer stuff always has a UK support line no as well.

Yep, done some work on a couple of the PCs they sell and was pretty
impressed with them tbh. Also, one had a duff fan on the gfx card and
they sent a replacement card quickly and with out a problem.

Returns within warranty are absolutely no problem to your nearest Aldi
store. Believe the 3 year warranty is what German consumers expect and
Aldi dont worry about it, they get their suppliers to back it.

Yeah, no problem with that. Wouldn't fancy the chances of getting spares
though at least, not for a 10 quid sander that would never make financial
sense surely.

Darren

In article , Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 18:21:11 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit repaired
under warranty.

.. and one day outside warranty?


For a ten quid sander you bin it and think "bloody hell, 3 years use for a
tenner can't be bad" before buying another...

Darren (well, *you* wouldn't Andy but 99% of aldi customers would)

In article , Andy Hall wrote:

3 year warranty don't forget.

3 year product lifetime.



Which sounds excellent to me for a tenner

Darren

On 2007-07-06 18:09:52 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 15:51:17 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 12:56:09 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:

B&Q have done more to damage to those DIY (and some trade) core
business who do want to do it properly than anyone else, try
finding a
member of staff in B&Q who really knows the product they are
attempting to sell.

Actually you can. The time to go for that is Sunday mornings
when
students from eastern Europe are working there. They tend to be
very knowledgable, polite and helpful.

Yes, about the own brand power tools that are made in the former
eastern block countries...

A rather cheap remark.


Not at all. If I walked into Wickes and wanted to know about their
un-badged Kress power tools I would hold very highly such a person
with such product knowledge

You would be a veritable Messiah if you found that. Dribble gets his
product information from Wickes staff.


- just as a would bow to a mechanic from
the former eastern block and his (or her) knowledge about Trabants or
Wartburg's (sp?). That same would be true were a US tool, that is new
to the UK, was concerned.

Their knowledge is only as good as either
their training or practical experience with the product.

I was referring more to the attitiude about customer service where
they will take the trouble to find things or find out when delivery
will be rather than the surly rudeness in Focus.

We were talking about product knowledge, not delivery and you know
it - More straw Andy?...

You were talking about product knowledge. I was talking about the
complete customer service experience.




I only expect to find product knowledge about a power tool from a
specialist tool reseller such as Axminster or the manufactuer
themselves.

Exactly! But you were extolling the virtues of one shed buying and
selling on price alone

No I wasn't.


but then slagging off another that does the
same.

No I wasn't.


Otherwise, were are the Dewalt or Makita service counters within
B&Q etc.?...

That has precisely what to do with anything.?

Let's say I want to buy a new power tool. My steps for that are first
of all to research products and look at reviews in reasonably well
respected places. I will check to see that the manufacturer has a
good track record in that tool type - very important. That will
suggest that there is a good probability that they will have continued.

I am only interested in manufacturers who offer proper spares and
service and do that job properly. That eliminates a lot of products
immediately.

Next is to research prices for the preferred short list from a variety
of sources.

If I am not sure between 3 or 4 products at that stage I may well visit
a tool store to take a look and touch for myself. A great deal can be
determined in this way. It can be interesting to use B&Q at this
stage since they do have a reasonable selection. Otherwise, I may
well order two or three tools and check them at home, returning the
unwanted ones. Buying from B&Q is irrelevant because there is no
responsibility for service and prices are high anyway.












Homebase is
in between and Focus is the least.

But they all buy in on price and then sell on price, which is
what
companies like Aldi do

Which is probably why they are also unsuccessful.


B&Q, Wickes unsuccessful, if you say so!...

If you look upwards a few lines you will notice that the comments
about lack of success relate to Homebase and Focus. Wickes is
hardly a success story either, having been sold numerous times.

Hmm, Kingfisher has had their own problems remember, the difference is
that B&Q is the core business and unlikely to sold off unless the sh*t
really hits the fan.

I am sure that if Home Depot came along tomorrow with an attractive
enough offer, they would sell B&Q immediately. Little would need to
change. Even the orange of the logo is the same, as is the retail
format. Lowes is much the same and are the worldwide number 2.



B&Q it's self has had more than it's own share of
problems, mostly sorted now, but problems that adversely effected the
profits.

This can happen to any business. The issue is whether sufficiently
capable management is in place with sufficient performance incentives.







- if Aldi were to buy in a production run of
(say) Makita and brand them as 'Tool-Time' as a loss-leader I bet
you
would still use the same arguments about market position and
price
point...

The issue is about service and support.


More straw Andy?

Service and support. Do you find those concepts hard to
understand.?

What service and support does one get from a virtual shed (such as
ScrewFux),

Little, which is why I only buy consumables from them.


at least one can dump a tool on a counter in Wickes or Aldi
and get either a replacement or a refund!

That isn't service.








One of the major factors in that is dilution. Homebase has
sub-franchises of various store-in-store outfits. These rarely
have
people in them and they are using floor space.

Many people actually prefer(ed) Homebase due to that.

The results suggest otherwise. If they did prefer it, they didn't
prefer it enough to spend good money there.


Rubbish, Homebase was (at the time of it's sell off from the JS
group)
making more money than the food sector - that is why the JS group
sold
it off, to raise money to save the core business.

... and since then it has slid interminably.


Depends what you go there for, yes they are not solely a DIY /
woodworking hobby shed but in saying that my local one is *always*
busy and has become more so since it moved into an even larger
building - just because a business model doesn't meet the requirement
of Mr Andy Hall doesn't mean that they are abject failures and will /
is about to go bust.

No of course not. I can only speak as I see and from the financials.
Home Retail Group, which includes that other superstar of the high
street, Argos, has had flat performance for over two years. If a
business isn't growing, investors walk away from it. Then it becomes a
failure. Watch for management changes within a year.

On 2007-07-06 19:35:02 +0100, "George" said:


That means you have had 2 years, 365.242199 days use out of the tool...not
bad for £10 don't ya think :-)

It might be if it was any good.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-06 18:21:11 +0100, ":Jerry:"
said:


"George" wrote in message
k...

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in
message
...

snip

Pretty much sums it up. If you take anything back to Aldi/Lidl
under
warranty they'll just refund, which leads me to believe there's
no
spares backup at all and the defective item is simply passed back
to the
manufacturers for credit. Hardly surprising, as they're just box
shifters.

But you will get a replacement if it does go faulty should you
want
to
persue this side of the sale and end up with a new one as these
days
its not
viable to repair items.
3 year warranty don't forget.


Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new
for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit repaired
under warranty.

.. and one day outside warranty?


More straw Andy?

You really are allowing your tool snobbery to get in the way of common
sense! Most people won't be bothered at the price point being charged,
obviously if they were selling it at 99.99 rather than 9.99 ukp your
argument might have been valid.

On 2007-07-06 19:47:11 +0100, (dmc) said:

In article , Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-06 18:21:11 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:

Also, don't forget that many people would actually prefer a 'new for
faulty' replacement policy rather than to have their unit repaired
under warranty.

.. and one day outside warranty?


For a ten quid sander you bin it and think "bloody hell, 3 years use for a
tenner can't be bad" before buying another...

Darren (well, *you* wouldn't Andy but 99% of aldi customers would)

99% of Aldi customers probably would as you say. However, since their
market share is only around 2% on groceries, and I am sure
substantially less on tools, it doesn't even register. That would
even be assuming that the product was any good in the first place.