On Jun 22, 11:15 pm, "Brian G" wrote:

BTW, with the hinge screw slots, you normally only 'line' these up on
hardwood doors and frames or those that are stained/polished - what the
point when they are going to be covered with enough paint to fill the screw
slots anyway?

I wouldn't paint normally paint brass hinges/screws, but steel hinges
with pozi screws would look better with a coat of paint. )

As a matter of interest, have you tried removing a screw with
its slots completely filled with paint that years old?

I just clear the slot with a jewellers screwdriver. If it was really
stubbon paint I'd try to soften it with a soldering iron bit first.

cheers,
Pete.

Brian G

On 24 Jun, 12:21, Pete C wrote:
On Jun 22, 11:15 pm, "Brian G" wrote:



BTW, with the hinge screw slots, you normally only 'line' these up on
hardwood doors and frames or those that are stained/polished - what the
point when they are going to be covered with enough paint to fill the screw
slots anyway?

I wouldn't paint normally paint brass hinges/screws, but steel hinges
with pozi screws would look better with a coat of paint. )

As a matter of interest, have you tried removing a screw with
its slots completely filled with paint that years old?

I just clear the slot with a jewellers screwdriver. If it was really
stubbon paint I'd try to soften it with a soldering iron bit first.

cheers,
Pete.

Brian G

Done it often:
tap around with a nail punch and hammer, to chip off old paint
ditto on the hinge leaf itself to try to break hard paint holding
screw
clean slot with old screwdriver and hammer
try to tighten screw slightly to break bond - long handled screwdriver
useful as it stays in place better
if it tightens just a click you know it will unscrew but if it slips
you haven't spoilt the other edge of the slot so you still have a
chance
if it won't tighten then try a bit of heat
if no joy then go for loosening, with great care as once slot edge
spoiled then no chance
impact screwdriver sometimes useful but can break screw

cheers
Jacob

On Jun 21, 12:28 pm, "Vass" wrote:
Can you use a router to make the recess for door hindges on the door and
frame?
plus the door catch recess's
any links to jigs or methods

I don't normaly bother with long threads but since it is my cup of tea
and there are still a few pointers you could use here are a couple not
covered so far. No doubt they will be a time or two in the not too
distant.

First off, using a router to cut door hinges is a skilled job. Setting
it up is, at least. It requires as much knowledge as does using hand
tools. Maybe more.

I have the Trend door jig but it will stay in its box until I get 4
doors or more for it. I wouldn't hesitate if it was already set up but
it is new and needs fettling.

You could do the job a lot more quickly with an inch and a half chisel
and a hammer but then you would never find out how to use the router.

Either way, the door has to be fitted first. This is half the job once
you have the experience. The door needs to be put in the frame with
packers or wedges and checked for equal spaces all around. The ideal
is top and sides equal and about 2 mm - about the thickness of a 2p
coin.

The bottom needs to clear your carpet. If unfitted, allow 10 or 15 mm
depending on whether you are going to have underlay. Ensure all the
other edges are parallel before cutting anything down. And of course
check the door top to see which side the lock goes.

Once you are satisfied it fits you can measure and mark the hinge
positions. 6 or 7 inches and down from the top, 8 or 9 and up from the
bottom. The idea is to clear the rails (in the good old days) and to
make the hinge butts look as though they are equally spaced
afterwards. (An optical illusion.)

You can mark the frame and door simultaneously. Now decide how you are
going to proceed.

If you have a long enough cutter, you can just rebate the length of
the hinge in one run. The cutter needs to be long enough to deal with
the architrave. Use a piece of wood as a fence long enough to stop the
router going past the mark for the bottom hinge. Another scrap tacked
above the but at a suitable distance to act as a stop for the other
side will allow you to cut the rebate without gong too far.

the improvised fence needs to be 2 inches shorter for the top hinge.
The scrap piece tacked onto the frame will be the same distance as
used on the bottom. For a middle hinge a couple of scraps tacked to
the frame will suffice.

The scrap used as a fence should still be used though. Cut into the
wood deep enough to bury all but the amount of cutter you will need to
actually do the work and the fence will be your depth gauge.

You will see how it all comes together if you practise on a few bits
of scrap. Once you are happy that you are proficient enough, have a go
on the real thing.

Personally I'd remove the architrave if it is an old frame. Or more
likely if the frame is old I would just cut into the door and use the
old housings cut into the frame for the previous door.

As you can see a sharp chisel is a lot quicker if you don't have
things already set up. With a chisel just mark the outline of the
hinge and chop the depth into the mark that runs parallel to the
rebate in the frame. Two smat whacks is just about all you need.

Then going by eye, guess how much you need to take off. If the frame
is a good one, chop into the side of the frame. If it is poor timber,
run down the width of the hinge housing, hazing out the stuff you want
removed then insert the chisel to pare it out.

Put the hinge in and check for wabble. If it is too deep you will have
to pack it with a bit of hard card. Not corrugated cardboard. Cereal
box or the package the hinge came in might do.

If you are happy with the depth but it wabbles, put the hinge in on
edge so you can look along the frame to see what needs paring away.
Practice with a few scraps will get you proficient in a morning and
you should cope well with the right chisel and a steady hand in about
1/4 of an hour per hinge.

If you can fit your first door in a couple of hours one way or the
other, you will be doing well. Don't rush it. As with all things do it
yourself (except for plumbing and electrical stuff) the aim is to have
fun.

As you can see a sharp chisel is a lot quicker if you don't have
things already set up. With a chisel just mark the outline of the
hinge and chop the depth into the mark that runs parallel to the
rebate in the frame. Two smat whacks is just about all you need.

But you need to know how to sharpen the chisel

normanwisdom wrote:
On 24 Jun, 12:21, Pete C wrote:
On Jun 22, 11:15 pm, "Brian G" wrote:



BTW, with the hinge screw slots, you normally only 'line' these up
on hardwood doors and frames or those that are stained/polished -
what the point when they are going to be covered with enough paint
to fill the screw slots anyway?

I wouldn't paint normally paint brass hinges/screws, but steel hinges
with pozi screws would look better with a coat of paint. )

As a matter of interest, have you tried removing a screw with
its slots completely filled with paint that years old?

I just clear the slot with a jewellers screwdriver. If it was really
stubbon paint I'd try to soften it with a soldering iron bit first.

cheers,
Pete.

Brian G

Done it often:
tap around with a nail punch and hammer, to chip off old paint
ditto on the hinge leaf itself to try to break hard paint holding
screw
clean slot with old screwdriver and hammer
try to tighten screw slightly to break bond - long handled screwdriver
useful as it stays in place better
if it tightens just a click you know it will unscrew but if it slips
you haven't spoilt the other edge of the slot so you still have a
chance
if it won't tighten then try a bit of heat
if no joy then go for loosening, with great care as once slot edge
spoiled then no chance
impact screwdriver sometimes useful but can break screw

cheers
Jacob

Jacob,

I'm a very old hand at it - some 40 years of fitting and repairing many
doors and windows.

The method I use is simply an old screwdriver shaft, belt that with a hammer
to clear the paint around the slot, use the same method to clear the slot
then hold the shaft in the slot itself and give a couple of 'smart' taps to
loosen the screw thread and using a long handled and well fitting screw
driver, try and tighten the screw first half a turn and then undo - and
scream all sorts of obscenities when the screw breaks or the slot gets
damaged :-)

The ones I really hate are pozidrive/Phillips type screws when they are full
of paint or the 'slots' rounded off because an incorrect driver was used -
or fitted using a battery operated screwdriver without a 'pres-set' clutch
or worn bit - or just ham-fistedness, grrrrr!

As a matter of interest, it's good practice to fit new screws when refitting
the hinge rather than re-use the old ones - from my observations over the
years, that's not always obvious to the younger members of the 'trade' and
some lesser experienced D-I-Yrs and very often leads to the rapid
application of a 'plaster' to the damaged finger or hand...


The joys of the trade and D-I-Y eh!

Brian G

Stuart Noble wrote:
As you can see a sharp chisel is a lot quicker if you don't have
things already set up. With a chisel just mark the outline of the
hinge and chop the depth into the mark that runs parallel to the
rebate in the frame. Two smat whacks is just about all you need.

But you need to know how to sharpen the chisel


http://www.seadercraft.com/model_woodwork.html

Brian G

Weatherlawyer wrote:

First off, using a router to cut door hinges is a skilled job. Setting
it up is, at least. It requires as much knowledge as does using hand
tools. Maybe more.

One handy trick when setting a limit to the depth of cut:

plunge the router such that the cutter is in contact with the rebate
surface. On a frame without stops this will be flush with the base of
the router, and on one with stops it will be through the base plate of
the router by the stop thickness.

Place one leaf of the hinge on the top of the currently selected depth
stop on the turret (assuming T5 style routers here), and drop the depth
bar down such that it sits on the other side of the hinge and lock it in
position. You will now have the stop set such that you can plunge only a
hinge thickness further.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24 Jun, 16:11, "Brian G" wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
As you can see a sharp chisel is a lot quicker if you don't have
things already set up. With a chisel just mark the outline of the
hinge and chop the depth into the mark that runs parallel to the
rebate in the frame. Two smat whacks is just about all you need.

But you need to know how to sharpen the chisel

http://www.seadercraft.com/model_woodwork.html

Brian G
It's swap sharpening links time! Here's mine: http://www.owdman.co.uk/joinery/sharpening.htm

cheers
Jacob

normanwisdom wrote:
On 24 Jun, 16:11, "Brian G" wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
As you can see a sharp chisel is a lot quicker if you don't have
things already set up. With a chisel just mark the outline of the
hinge and chop the depth into the mark that runs parallel to the
rebate in the frame. Two smat whacks is just about all you need.
But you need to know how to sharpen the chisel
http://www.seadercraft.com/model_woodwork.html

Brian G
It's swap sharpening links time! Here's mine: http://www.owdman.co.uk/joinery/sharpening.htm

cheers
Jacob



Rounded bevels? Whatever next!

On Jun 24, 3:20 pm, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:28 pm, "Vass" wrote:

Can you use a router to make the recess for door hindges on the door and
frame?
plus the door catch recess's
any links to jigs or methods

I don't normaly bother with long threads but since it is my cup of tea
and there are still a few pointers you could use here are a couple not
covered so far. No doubt they will be a time or two in the not too
distant.

First off, using a router to cut door hinges is a skilled job. Setting
it up is, at least. It requires as much knowledge as does using hand
tools. Maybe more.

Absolute rubbish! It's far less skilled than using a chisel. At least
it is with my home made jig (less than 30mins to make). The only
setting up is knowing where the hinge is to go. Clamp the jig in
position, set the cutter depth, rout, square the corners with a
chisel. Hinge rebating - done!

MBQ

normanwisdom wrote:
On 24 Jun, 16:11, "Brian G" wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
As you can see a sharp chisel is a lot quicker if you don't have
things already set up. With a chisel just mark the outline of the
hinge and chop the depth into the mark that runs parallel to the
rebate in the frame. Two smat whacks is just about all you need.

But you need to know how to sharpen the chisel

http://www.seadercraft.com/model_woodwork.html

Brian G
It's swap sharpening links time! Here's mine:
http://www.owdman.co.uk/joinery/sharpening.htm

cheers
Jacob

Jacob,

Very interesting - but when I was an apprentice some 40 years ago, if I
produced a 'rounded' bevel on a chisel or plane iron I got 'rounded' - an
open hand 'around' the earhole with the instructions to re-grind the f*****g
thing and do it properly this time!

Now what about the amateur and the novice sharpening a hand saw - or even
worse a tenon saw? And this was in the days before 'jack-saws' and 'hard
points' were even though off!

Ah the fun of it all!

Brian G