Hi All,
I have been looking over my electrics in my detached garage and shed and
have decided they need tidying up.
The power was already there when I moved into the house in 1991 and is
fed by a 30a fuse from the house cu.
Over the years I have made a few minor changes: replaced an outdoor
socket with a good switched IP67 and fitted an rcd to the garage
incoming which also covers the shed at the top of the garden, this is
fed by SWA which is laid under a concrete path from the garage to shed.

The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly sized
but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights
that are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu
with a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already
there and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable so I
don't need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Bazza

"Bazza" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
I have been looking over my electrics in my detached garage and shed and
have decided they need tidying up.
The power was already there when I moved into the house in 1991 and is fed
by a 30a fuse from the house cu.
Over the years I have made a few minor changes: replaced an outdoor socket
with a good switched IP67 and fitted an rcd to the garage incoming which
also covers the shed at the top of the garden, this is fed by SWA which is
laid under a concrete path from the garage to shed.

The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly sized
but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights that
are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu with
a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already there
and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable so I don't
need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Consider doing the work and keeping your mouth tightly sealed.

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:

"Bazza" wrote in message
...
Hi All,
I have been looking over my electrics in my detached garage and shed
and have decided they need tidying up.
The power was already there when I moved into the house in 1991 and is
fed by a 30a fuse from the house cu.
Over the years I have made a few minor changes: replaced an outdoor
socket with a good switched IP67 and fitted an rcd to the garage
incoming which also covers the shed at the top of the garden, this is
fed by SWA which is laid under a concrete path from the garage to shed.

The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly
sized but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights
that are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu
with a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already
there and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable so
I don't need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Consider doing the work and keeping your mouth tightly sealed.

Adam


Mum's the word,I will go ahead anyhow but want to make everything safe,
just not sure if I will need to rip out back to basics if I sell up

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bazza wrote:

Hi All,
I have been looking over my electrics in my detached garage and shed
and have decided they need tidying up.
The power was already there when I moved into the house in 1991 and is
fed by a 30a fuse from the house cu.
Over the years I have made a few minor changes: replaced an outdoor
socket with a good switched IP67 and fitted an rcd to the garage
incoming which also covers the shed at the top of the garden, this is
fed by SWA which is laid under a concrete path from the garage to
shed.
The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly
sized but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights
that are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu
with a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already
there and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable
so I don't need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Bazza

Ignore Part P but obey the 11th commandment - "Be thou not found out!"

When you sell up, simply claim that the electrical installation pre-dates
Part P. It will be virtually impossible for anyone to prove otherwise. Even
if any of the kit is date stamped more recently, it could simply be as a
result of replacing like with like - which AIUI, is not notifiable.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:51:04 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bazza wrote:

Hi All,
I have been looking over my electrics in my detached garage and shed
and have decided they need tidying up.
The power was already there when I moved into the house in 1991 and is
fed by a 30a fuse from the house cu.
Over the years I have made a few minor changes: replaced an outdoor
socket with a good switched IP67 and fitted an rcd to the garage
incoming which also covers the shed at the top of the garden, this is
fed by SWA which is laid under a concrete path from the garage to
shed.
The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly
sized but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights
that are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu
with a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already
there and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable
so I don't need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Bazza

Ignore Part P but obey the 11th commandment - "Be thou not found out!"

When you sell up, simply claim that the electrical installation pre-dates
Part P. It will be virtually impossible for anyone to prove otherwise. Even
if any of the kit is date stamped more recently, it could simply be as a
result of replacing like with like - which AIUI, is not notifiable.

It is in a garage.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lurch wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:51:04 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:


Ignore Part P but obey the 11th commandment - "Be thou not found
out!"

When you sell up, simply claim that the electrical installation
pre-dates Part P. It will be virtually impossible for anyone to
prove otherwise. Even if any of the kit is date stamped more
recently, it could simply be as a result of replacing like with like
- which AIUI, is not notifiable.

It is in a garage.


Yes, we know! What difference does that make?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:03:03 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lurch wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:51:04 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:


Ignore Part P but obey the 11th commandment - "Be thou not found
out!"

When you sell up, simply claim that the electrical installation
pre-dates Part P. It will be virtually impossible for anyone to
prove otherwise. Even if any of the kit is date stamped more
recently, it could simply be as a result of replacing like with like
- which AIUI, is not notifiable.

It is in a garage.


Yes, we know! What difference does that make?

Nothing, I seem to have this thread confused with another one,
although my reply wouldn't have really fitted in that one either.

Note to self, try not to post after you've had a heavy night.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Jun 10, 6:51 pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,





Bazza wrote:
Hi All,
I have been looking over my electrics in my detached garage and shed
and have decided they need tidying up.
The power was already there when I moved into the house in 1991 and is
fed by a 30a fuse from the house cu.
Over the years I have made a few minor changes: replaced an outdoor
socket with a good switched IP67 and fitted an rcd to the garage
incoming which also covers the shed at the top of the garden, this is
fed by SWA which is laid under a concrete path from the garage to
shed.
The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly
sized but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights
that are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu
with a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already
there and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable
so I don't need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Bazza

Ignore Part P but obey the 11th commandment - "Be thou not found out!"

When you sell up, simply claim that the electrical installation pre-dates
Part P. It will be virtually impossible for anyone to prove otherwise. Even
if any of the kit is date stamped more recently, it could simply be as a
result of replacing like with like - which AIUI, is not notifiable.


You'd think there would be a thriving market in old black/red mains
cable for just this reason.

Robert

On Jun 11, 9:22 am, Robert Laws wrote:

You'd think there would be a thriving market in old black/red mains
cable for just this reason.

There is. Search on ebay for "old colours".
--
Rob

On 10 Jun, 22:03, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Lurch wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:51:04 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:

Ignore Part P but obey the 11th commandment - "Be thou not found
out!"

When you sell up, simply claim that the electrical installation
pre-dates Part P. It will be virtually impossible for anyone to
prove otherwise. Even if any of the kit is date stamped more
recently, it could simply be as a result of replacing like with like
- which AIUI, is not notifiable.

It is in a garage.

Yes, we know! What difference does that make?
--

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed equipotential
zone.

T

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:


It is in a garage.

Yes, we know! What difference does that make?
--

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed equipotential
zone.

T

Can you please quote chapter and verse to support that assertion?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Jun 11, 10:34 am, Huge wrote:
On 2007-06-11, Rob Hamadi wrote:

On Jun 11, 9:22 am, Robert Laws wrote:

You'd think there would be a thriving market in old black/red mains
cable for just this reason.

There is. Search on ebay for "old colours".

hardly "thriving". Four items.

I got 20 (35 if searching title and description). Definitions of
thriving may vary, but that's hardy moribund.
--
Rob

On 11 Jun, 11:33, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

wrote:

It is in a garage.

Yes, we know! What difference does that make?
--

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed equipotential
zone.

T

Can you please quote chapter and verse to support that assertion?
--

No I can't, because I was wrong! Part P confusion must be getting to
me...

T

On Jun 11, 1:04 pm, wrote:

No I can't, because I was wrong! Part P confusion must be getting to
me...

Steady man! This is Usenet - one can't go around being reasonable and
admitting to being wrong! The proper form is to turn this into a 200
post thread which finally dies when other posters tire of one's
increasingly convoluted and falsely syllogistic arguments as to why
one was correct all along.

Oh, and one has to reverse position an even number of times ;-)
--
Rob

On Jun 11, 12:56 pm, Owain wrote:
Huge wrote:
Rob Hamadi wrote:
You'd think there would be a thriving market in old black/red mains
cable for just this reason.
There is. Search on ebay for "old colours".
But that's only the number of sellers. You don't know how many people
are watching those items :-)

If there are always about 4 such items listed it means a new one must
be listed every couple of days.

Robert

Bazza wrote:

Mum's the word,I will go ahead anyhow but want to make everything safe,
just not sure if I will need to rip out back to basics if I sell up

Na. If anyone asks, you don't know.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

No I can't, because I was wrong! Part P confusion must be getting to
me...

Part of the confusion may arise from the fact that running power to a
detached garage would be notifiable, even if work once power is inside
it is not.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Robert Laws wrote:

You'd think there would be a thriving market in old black/red mains
cable for just this reason.

If there is, then it is only for the slightly less astute contingent!

Legal use of old colours post dates the introduction of part pee
and legal use of the new ones pre dates introduction of it.

So just because it is in old colours does not mean part pee did not
apply, and new colours doe not mean that it did.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Bazza wrote:

The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly sized
but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights
that are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu
with a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already
there and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable so I
don't need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Upgrading like for like and modifying existing circuits would not be
notifiable. Replacing the CU would.

However I would always go with doing what makes for the best and safest
installation regardless of the requirements of part pee.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Bazza wrote:

The electrics in the garage are surface mounted in t&e, correctly
sized but very untidy, bit like spaghetti junction.
These feed 3 double switched sockets (metal) and 3 florescent lights
that are wired from an ancient 4 way fused cu.
What I want to do is to move the sockets to a more user friendly area,
remove redundant runs, place the cable in trunking and replace the cu
with a wylex 2 way rcd garage unit from screwfix.

I will not be putting in virgin runs just reworking what is already
there and upgrading components, there is ample existing loose cable so
I don't need to purchase new cable which means no mixed colours

My question is this, is this reportable under the part P regs?

Upgrading like for like and modifying existing circuits would not be
notifiable. Replacing the CU would.

However I would always go with doing what makes for the best and safest
installation regardless of the requirements of part pee.



Yes that's the way I will go, I want what I consider to be a safe
installation although since fitting the RCD several years ago the only
time it has tripped is when I do a monthly test.
What I am doing is not rocket science but although I am not a qualified
household electrician I have considerable experience in 3 phase control
panels so have no worries about tackling this, I do like a nice tidy
installation.

Bazza

In article . com,
Robert Laws writes:

You'd think there would be a thriving market in old black/red mains
cable for just this reason.

We're having loads of electrical work done at work, and AFAIK,
all the new cabling is in old colours, although I'm not sure
I've noticed anything other than 3-phase cabling (and some of
that is 11kV, but most is 230/400V). I keep meaning to check
what colours they're using for single phase -- must try and
remember to do so next week when I'm back on that site.

I know a number of other companies don't permit mixing old and
new colours on the same site, but I haven't actually checked
what our own rules are with regards to this. In particular,
one company had been using the new colours for years to
distinguish UPS protected supplies from non-UPS protected
supplies.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:33:50 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, "Roger
Mills" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed equipotential
zone.

Can you please quote chapter and verse to support that assertion?

Chapter and verse to refute that assertion. AD P, Tables 1 & 2, note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

In message , Hugo Nebula
writes
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:33:50 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, "Roger
Mills" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed equipotential
zone.

Can you please quote chapter and verse to support that assertion?

Chapter and verse to refute that assertion. AD P, Tables 1 & 2, note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already
wired up?
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:13:25 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, Peter
Twydell randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In message , Hugo Nebula
writes

AD P, Tables 1 & 2, note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already
wired up?

In English, "outdoor" means "outside". Or are you being deliberately
obtuse?
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Peter Twydell wrote:
In message , Hugo Nebula
writes
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:33:50 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, "Roger
Mills" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed equipotential
zone.

Can you please quote chapter and verse to support that assertion?

Chapter and verse to refute that assertion. AD P, Tables 1 & 2, note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already
wired up?

Part P table 2, Note J:

"The installation of a socket outlet on an external wall is notifiable,
since the socket-outlet is an outdoor connector that could be connected
to cables that cross the garden and requires RCD protection."

This is distinct from the "outdoor wiring" in the first para though
since that is referring to the wring necessary that crosses the garden
to get to the garage. Once inside the garage you can make non notifiable
alterations, but this ain't one of them.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Peter Twydell" wrote in message
...

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage without
going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already wired up?

You can do what you like if it has a plug on the end and you just plug it
into an existing socket as far as Prat P is concerned..
By far the easiest way of getting one 13A socket outside even if its not the
best way.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Peter Twydell wrote:
In message , Hugo
Nebula writes
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:33:50 +0100, a particular chimpanzee,
"Roger
Mills" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore
notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed
equipotential
zone.

Can you please quote chapter and verse to support that assertion?

Chapter and verse to refute that assertion. AD P, Tables 1 & 2,
note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is
already wired up?

Part P table 2, Note J:

"The installation of a socket outlet on an external wall is
notifiable, since the socket-outlet is an outdoor connector that
could be connected to cables that cross the garden and requires RCD
protection."

This is distinct from the "outdoor wiring" in the first para though
since that is referring to the wring necessary that crosses the
garden to get to the garage. Once inside the garage you can make non
notifiable alterations, but this ain't one of them.


So all this is going to do is, people will just ignore the law (as
normally happens with 'bad law) or people will obey the letter of the
law and either do as Denis suggests (outside socket connected via a
lead and plug inside the building) or run even longer extension
leads - possibly daisy-chaining them and probably using a non RCD
protected supply - and they wonder why it's being referred to as part
Pee or ****! :~(

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:16:41 +0100, ":Jerry:"
mused:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Peter Twydell wrote:
In message , Hugo
Nebula writes
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:33:50 +0100, a particular chimpanzee,
"Roger
Mills" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

The difference is that it is in a garage, and therefore
notifiable. I
think the reason is that garages are outside the earthed
equipotential
zone.

Can you please quote chapter and verse to support that assertion?

Chapter and verse to refute that assertion. AD P, Tables 1 & 2,
note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is
already wired up?

Part P table 2, Note J:

"The installation of a socket outlet on an external wall is
notifiable, since the socket-outlet is an outdoor connector that
could be connected to cables that cross the garden and requires RCD
protection."

This is distinct from the "outdoor wiring" in the first para though
since that is referring to the wring necessary that crosses the
garden to get to the garage. Once inside the garage you can make non
notifiable alterations, but this ain't one of them.


So all this is going to do is, people will just ignore the law (as
normally happens with 'bad law)

Seems to be the most common option IME.

or people will obey the letter of the
law and either do as Denis suggests (outside socket connected via a
lead and plug inside the building)

Part p mentions that and specifically includes fixed wiring with the
final connection being a plug and socket arrangement.

or run even longer extension
leads - possibly daisy-chaining them and probably using a non RCD
protected supply - and they wonder why it's being referred to as part
Pee or ****! :~(

Quite.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:08:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
mused:


"Peter Twydell" wrote in message
...

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage without
going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already wired up?

You can do what you like if it has a plug on the end and you just plug it
into an existing socket as far as Prat P is concerned..
By far the easiest way of getting one 13A socket outside even if its not the
best way.

You clearly haven't read part p then.

quote

General Guidance.

h. The installation of fixed equipment is within the scope in part p,
even where the final connection is by a 13A plug and socket.

end quote
--
Regards,
Stuart.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:16:41 +0100, ":Jerry:"
mused:

snip

or people will obey the letter of the
law and either do as Denis suggests (outside socket connected via a
lead and plug inside the building)

Part p mentions that and specifically includes fixed wiring with the
final connection being a plug and socket arrangement.

Yes, but what then counts as 'fixed', I would not call a bit of flex
passed though a hole with the socket attached to a off cut of wood
(which is then ever so loosely nailed to the wall) as fixed - my point
is that people will do what is required to obey the law but
circumnavigate it.

:Jerry: wrote:

Yes, but what then counts as 'fixed', I would not call a bit of flex
passed though a hole with the socket attached to a off cut of wood
(which is then ever so loosely nailed to the wall) as fixed

Or worse still, left hanging freely to blow around in the wind.

- my point
is that people will do what is required to obey the law but
circumnavigate it.

Quite.

--
Mike Clarke

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:05:18 +0100, ":Jerry:"
mused:


"Lurch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:16:41 +0100, ":Jerry:"
mused:

snip

or people will obey the letter of the
law and either do as Denis suggests (outside socket connected via a
lead and plug inside the building)

Part p mentions that and specifically includes fixed wiring with the
final connection being a plug and socket arrangement.

Yes, but what then counts as 'fixed', I would not call a bit of flex
passed though a hole with the socket attached to a off cut of wood
(which is then ever so loosely nailed to the wall) as fixed - my point
is that people will do what is required to obey the law but
circumnavigate it.

I think it's intentionally vague and ambiguous enough to be able to
include the aforementioned scenario as within the scope of part p.
Whether it is or isn't is another matter.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In message , Hugo Nebula
writes
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:13:25 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, Peter
Twydell randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In message , Hugo Nebula
writes

AD P, Tables 1 & 2, note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already
wired up?

In English, "outdoor" means "outside". Or are you being deliberately
obtuse?

Depends on your interpretation, or rather on the meaning given in Part
P. Outdoor could mean 'outside the house _and_ garage', i.e. along a
fence, under a flower bed, over the lawn, etc. It could also mean 'not
in the house', which would include inside the garage. A socket on the
external wall of the garage only has wiring outside the garage between
the wall and the terminals, but that wire/cable is not exposed, so I
wanted to know what the letter of the law is. All I asked for was
clarification from people who are familiar with this particular piece of
ridiculous nanny state legislation.

I see from subsequent posts that it is deemed to be outdoor wiring, so
it's back to the extension lead from the existing socket 20m away on the
side of the house. Safety my arse!
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:08:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
mused:


"Peter Twydell" wrote in message
...

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without
going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already wired
up?

You can do what you like if it has a plug on the end and you just plug it
into an existing socket as far as Prat P is concerned..
By far the easiest way of getting one 13A socket outside even if its not
the
best way.

You clearly haven't read part p then.

quote

General Guidance.

h. The installation of fixed equipment is within the scope in part p,
even where the final connection is by a 13A plug and socket.

end quote


"fixed equipment"!

On Jul 13, 12:31 pm, Peter Twydell wrote:
In message , Hugo Nebula
writes





On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:13:25 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, Peter
Twydell randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

In message , Hugo Nebula
writes

AD P, Tables 1 & 2, note
f): "Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work
within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring".

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already
wired up?

In English, "outdoor" means "outside". Or are you being deliberately
obtuse?

Depends on your interpretation, or rather on the meaning given in Part
P. Outdoor could mean 'outside the house _and_ garage', i.e. along a
fence, under a flower bed, over the lawn, etc. It could also mean 'not
in the house', which would include inside the garage. A socket on the
external wall of the garage only has wiring outside the garage between
the wall and the terminals, but that wire/cable is not exposed, so I
wanted to know what the letter of the law is. All I asked for was
clarification from people who are familiar with this particular piece of
ridiculous nanny state legislation.

I see from subsequent posts that it is deemed to be outdoor wiring, so
it's back to the extension lead from the existing socket 20m away on the
side of the house. Safety my arse!
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes; please don't trip over the extension wire and since it will be
possibly made in China of material that might deteriorate rather
rapidly in sunlight and UK weather? replace it rather frequently?
Right, Alvin? .............................. ALVIN!!!!

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:08:46 +0100, "dennis@home"
mused:


"Lurch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:08:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
mused:


"Peter Twydell" wrote in message
...

Does that mean I can fit a 13A socket to the outside of my garage
without
going through all the Part P nonsense if the garage is already wired
up?

You can do what you like if it has a plug on the end and you just plug it
into an existing socket as far as Prat P is concerned..
By far the easiest way of getting one 13A socket outside even if its not
the
best way.

You clearly haven't read part p then.

quote

General Guidance.

h. The installation of fixed equipment is within the scope in part p,
even where the final connection is by a 13A plug and socket.

end quote


"fixed equipment"!

A socket outlet is fixed equipment, whether it's screwed to the wall
or not, unless it's a trailing socket expressly designed for the
purpose of using in an extension lead scenario.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lurch wrote:


A socket outlet is fixed equipment, whether it's screwed to the wall
or not, unless it's a trailing socket expressly designed for the
purpose of using in an extension lead scenario.


And many trailing extension sockets have 'keyholes' on the back so that you
can hang them on a couple of screws. What does that make them? Are they
'fixed equipment' when so hung, but Part P exempt when you unhook them?

What a load of bollox the whole thing is!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:04:36 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lurch wrote:


A socket outlet is fixed equipment, whether it's screwed to the wall
or not, unless it's a trailing socket expressly designed for the
purpose of using in an extension lead scenario.


And many trailing extension sockets have 'keyholes' on the back so that you
can hang them on a couple of screws. What does that make them? Are they
'fixed equipment' when so hung, but Part P exempt when you unhook them?

No, they are trailing sockets with keyhole slots in the back.

What a load of bollox the whole thing is!

Yeah, pretty much.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lurch wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:04:36 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:


And many trailing extension sockets have 'keyholes' on the back so
that you can hang them on a couple of screws. What does that make
them? Are they 'fixed equipment' when so hung, but Part P exempt
when you unhook them?

No, they are trailing sockets with keyhole slots in the back.


So how is "fixed" defined?

The only difference between this scenario and mounting a surface box and
socket on the wall - with a cable with a 13A plug on the other end is that
you can unhook it without getting inside the box.

So, if I cut some keyhole slots in the back of a surface-mount box so that
it can be unhooked without getting inside, does it then become exempt from
Part P?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:26:48 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Lurch wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:04:36 +0100, "Roger Mills"
mused:


And many trailing extension sockets have 'keyholes' on the back so
that you can hang them on a couple of screws. What does that make
them? Are they 'fixed equipment' when so hung, but Part P exempt
when you unhook them?

No, they are trailing sockets with keyhole slots in the back.


So how is "fixed" defined?

The only difference between this scenario and mounting a surface box and
socket on the wall - with a cable with a 13A plug on the other end is that
you can unhook it without getting inside the box.

No, the difference is one is a trailing socket with keyhole slots in
it, the other is a piece of fixed equipment with some hoiles in the
back of it which would probably cause me to fail it in the course of
the test and inspection due to incorrect\loose fixings and not being
fit for purpose due to the possible breach of the IP rating of the
unit.

So, if I cut some keyhole slots in the back of a surface-mount box so that
it can be unhooked without getting inside, does it then become exempt from
Part P?

No. It's designed, produced and sold as a piece of fixed equipment,
end of.

Just give it a rest, you're worse than me!
--
Regards,
Stuart.