Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?

Failing that (ouch) then could it be the electronic igniter / pilot
control box doodad (407676 / £100, I've checked the back of that for
dry joints and it looks ok) or what else please?

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?

Failing that (ouch) then could it be the electronic igniter / pilot
control box doodad (407676 / £100, I've checked the back of that for
dry joints and it looks ok) or what else please?

All the best ..

T i m

http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp do an exchange control board for £30 + VAT
+ delivery. No connection with company but my Neta Heat failed yesterday
:-( so I was looking for spares today. It's now working for no apparent
reason but will undoubtably stop again when it gets colder. I have a manual
with a fault finding chart that I could copy if you want. Please reply
through group as my email doesn't work anymore.

Peter

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?



Hmmm 3/4 of a second isn't enough for the "thermocouple" to react so
I'm not sure what to suggest really. On mine it was fairly easy to
check and/or hardwire all the sensor inputs to both give some
supervised heating and also to see where the problem was. for me it
was the themrocouple whcih was actually a mercury vapour switch and
usually a second or two to react. I got mine from america new for £15
when they were otherwise £100 in the UK.

So, boiler on, control calls for heat, fan blows/sucks which I guess
then allows the pilot to open and the ignitor to spark, pilot lights
then something goes wrong. So what's the next step in that process?
Boiler temp input? High stat input? ..or do they come at the beginning?

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:30:50 GMT, "Peter Andrews"
wrote:



http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp do an exchange control board for £30 + VAT
+ delivery.

That's a good price for what I assume would be a guaranteed unit
Peter. Especially if it's to find out that it's not that?

No connection with company but my Neta Heat failed yesterday
:-( so I was looking for spares today.

Oh. Doh, of course .. it's getting cold isn't it! ;-(

It's now working for no apparent
reason but will undoubtably stop again when it gets colder.

Ah, that's just a trap so you don't continue fault finding again ...

I have a manual
with a fault finding chart that I could copy if you want. Please reply
through group as my email doesn't work anymore.

Ok, that could be handy Peter. A mate has found a control unit in his
van (only after I mentioned "shame we don't know someone who had just
pulled one of these boilers out and has a known working one .."
(though he can't remember if it was good or bad)) and I'm going to
pick it up tonight and see what happens. If it doesn't work I might be
onto you again for the info (thanks).

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. my email is good.

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?

Failing that (ouch) then could it be the electronic igniter / pilot
control box doodad (407676 / £100, I've checked the back of that for
dry joints and it looks ok) or what else please?


Check the ignition lead forms a low resistance dc path from electrode
to control box. A break will jump the spark but not register the flame
presence

On 22 Jan 2007 08:51:03 -0800, "adder1969"
wrote:


T i m wrote:
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?



Hmmm 3/4 of a second isn't enough for the "thermocouple" to react so
I'm not sure what to suggest really.

I don't think this design uses a 'thermocouple' as in what I'm used to
(a probe sticking into the pilot flame) but some for of 'sensing'
between the igniter lead and using a side effect of the pilot flame to
'sense' if it's lit or not.

On mine it was fairly easy to
check and/or hardwire all the sensor inputs to both give some
supervised heating and also to see where the problem was.

I had thought of doing similar but without any idea what goes on in
the control unit (and therefore the in / output logic) I didn't want
to make anything worse.

for me it
was the themrocouple whcih was actually a mercury vapour switch and
usually a second or two to react. I got mine from america new for £15
when they were otherwise £100 in the UK.

I changed a std thermocouple in my Mum's boiler a while ago and it was
under a tenner.

So, boiler on, control calls for heat, fan blows/sucks which I guess
then allows the pilot to open and the ignitor to spark, pilot lights
then something goes wrong.

Yup, spot on ;-)

So what's the next step in that process?

Well, I think what should have happened is after each spark is it
checks to see if there is a pilot flame and if there is it opens the
main gas valve to the burner (inverter flame detection). I believe it
does that using the same lead as it uses for ignition to ground?

Boiler temp input?

Currently calling for both heating and water and boiler stat is
working (tested).

High stat input? ..or do they come at the beginning?

Not sure, I would assume the high limit stat (thermocouple?) would
just cut the gas off somewhere (being a safety rather than std
'regulation' thing)?

Strangely though, we rang a relative of theirs who had just been
through similar, he had bought a new control unit and found it no
better. Called a heating engineer in who diagnosed a low gas pressure
setting (not sure what / where), suggesting that it had never been
installed properly in the first place but had been working fine for
the last 3 years?

All the best ..

T i m

On 22 Jan 2007 10:17:56 -0800, "cynic" wrote:


T i m wrote:
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?

Failing that (ouch) then could it be the electronic igniter / pilot
control box doodad (407676 / £100, I've checked the back of that for
dry joints and it looks ok) or what else please?


Check the ignition lead forms a low resistance dc path from electrode
to control box. A break will jump the spark but not register the flame
presence

Hmmm, I've just replaced the ht lead and sparker probe (£10 minimum
order at the local place) but no difference (but cheap things to swap
out at the beginning)?

I didn't measure the probs resistance to earth (but still can) but
guess if a new lead didn't fix it then it's back to the control unit?

'If' the spare control unit my mate has unearthed works I might be
tempted to pop the top off the old one and see if there is anything
obvious that could be replaced?

All the best ..

T i m

In message , T i m
writes
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?

Flame detection is in the 407676 (assuming that that is the version you
have, i.e. a netaheat electronic)


Failing that (ouch) then could it be the electronic igniter / pilot
control box doodad (407676 / £100, I've checked the back of that for
dry joints and it looks ok) or what else please?

It sounds like the GV relay on the pcb is not operating correctly for
whatever reason.

.... unless someone like Ed has any other ideas

As someone else said, my website

www.cetltd.com is your best bet






--
geoff

In message , T i m
writes

Strangely though, we rang a relative of theirs who had just been
through similar, he had bought a new control unit and found it no
better. Called a heating engineer in who diagnosed a low gas pressure
setting (not sure what / where), suggesting that it had never been
installed properly in the first place but had been working fine for
the last 3 years?


Actually - I forgot about that possibility, although it's unlikely

pilot comes on - pcb senses the flame, opens the main gas valve, local
pressure drops, pilot goes out, no flame sense


--
geoff

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:19:56 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?

Flame detection is in the 407676 (assuming that that is the version you
have, i.e. a netaheat electronic)


Failing that (ouch) then could it be the electronic igniter / pilot
control box doodad (407676 / £100, I've checked the back of that for
dry joints and it looks ok) or what else please?

It sounds like the GV relay on the pcb is not operating correctly for
whatever reason.

... unless someone like Ed has any other ideas

As someone else said, my website

www.cetltd.com is your best bet

Thanks for that.

I was kindly sent the fault finding / flow diagrams earlier and
according to them the fault was most likely to be in the control unit,
so I continued to my Corgi mates.

Well, I just returned from his with the (found in his van) control
unit (407676) and fitted it in their boiler. Switched on, stood back
and away it went! ;-)

I let it run till the boiler stat (no room stat) turned the heating
off and monitored it a bit further to make sure it all settled down
ok.

We all have our fingers crossed that that was all it was and I'm
pleased that they now have a warm house again (especially because the
chemotherapy he's currently having makes him feel the cold more and
they are both 70+ in any case).

I'm happy with many rounds of toast, sarnies, tea and cake and they
want to give my mate a decent drink for the control unit if it proves
to be the solution (after testing over the next few days).

Thanks to all who offered help and advice and isn't it nice when a
plan comes together (fingers still firmly crossed of course). ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

On mine it was fairly easy to
check and/or hardwire all the sensor inputs to both give some
supervised heating and also to see where the problem was.

I had thought of doing similar but without any idea what goes on in
the control unit (and therefore the in / output logic) I didn't want
to make anything worse.


If the control unit is very simple it will just switch open the gas
valves and it's usually easy to bypass the controller so that happens
if you're desperate for some heat and hot water. You just need the fan
and the flame (and the pump) and away you go. It's no fun hurrying to
fix a boiler in a cold house so I usually get the house nice and toasty
first before actually fixing stuff. ...although having said that some
people frown at an open boiler with a few wires hanging out of it :-)

On 23 Jan 2007 01:31:46 -0800, "adder1969"
wrote:


T i m wrote:

On mine it was fairly easy to
check and/or hardwire all the sensor inputs to both give some
supervised heating and also to see where the problem was.

I had thought of doing similar but without any idea what goes on in
the control unit (and therefore the in / output logic) I didn't want
to make anything worse.


If the control unit is very simple it will just switch open the gas
valves and it's usually easy to bypass the controller so that happens
if you're desperate for some heat and hot water. You just need the fan
and the flame (and the pump) and away you go. It's no fun hurrying to
fix a boiler in a cold house so I usually get the house nice and toasty
first before actually fixing stuff. ...although having said that some
people frown at an open boiler with a few wires hanging out of it :-)

They also probably feel the same about a live PC just sitting uncased
on the bench ;-)

I did say the boiler seemed to be running ok with the 'replacement'
control unit, well it was as of midnight last night at least.

This morning I got a phone call saying the boiler was now 'not working
again'. ;-(

A quick look showed that the boiler was indeed 'dead', as in it now
does nothing at all?

They had to go out (more chemotherapy for him) and when they come back
I'll have probe about and find out where all the power has gone (the
controller suggests the system has power but the isolator on the
boiler isn't an illuminated one so I can't tell if power is getting
down there or not).

It may well just be the 20mm / 1A fuse on the controller has blown (as
they can sometimes do for no *apparent* reason) so I'll see how long a
replacement fuse lasts. If it runs ok I might measure the current with
the DMM and see how near the 1A it actually is?

Ho hum .. back into the frying pan .. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

In message om,
adder1969 writes

T i m wrote:

On mine it was fairly easy to
check and/or hardwire all the sensor inputs to both give some
supervised heating and also to see where the problem was.

I had thought of doing similar but without any idea what goes on in
the control unit (and therefore the in / output logic) I didn't want
to make anything worse.


If the control unit is very simple it will just switch open the gas
valves and it's usually easy to bypass the controller so that happens
if you're desperate for some heat and hot water. You just need the fan
and the flame (and the pump) and away you go. It's no fun hurrying to
fix a boiler in a cold house so I usually get the house nice and toasty
first before actually fixing stuff. ...although having said that some
people frown at an open boiler with a few wires hanging out of it :-)

Netaheats can be dangerous boilers

There are several documented cases (which I'm sure you can find on the
internet) of them exploding

Some of them suffered from "pre-ignition", which is a polite word for
explosion in the gas industry

As a boiler it should be treated with respect if you don't know what you
are doing


--
geoff

On Jan 23, 9:37 pm, raden wrote:
There are several documented cases (which I'm sure you can find on the
internet) of them exploding

Some of them suffered from "pre-ignition", which is a polite word for
explosion in the gas industry

As a boiler it should be treated with respect if you don't know what you
are doing


Actually no, I can't find any cases but I don't doubt it considering
the "wooof" they make when they fire up.

In message . com,
adder1969 writes


On Jan 23, 9:37 pm, raden wrote:
There are several documented cases (which I'm sure you can find on the
internet) of them exploding

Some of them suffered from "pre-ignition", which is a polite word for
explosion in the gas industry

As a boiler it should be treated with respect if you don't know what you
are doing


Actually no, I can't find any cases but I don't doubt it considering
the "wooof" they make when they fire up.

Someone did post some links once upon time

One of my employees who's ex BG also confirmed it

--
geoff

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:55:36 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:30:50 GMT, "Peter Andrews"
wrote:



http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp do an exchange control board for £30 + VAT
+ delivery.

That's a good price for what I assume would be a guaranteed unit
Peter. Especially if it's to find out that it's not that?

No connection with company but my Neta Heat failed yesterday
:-( so I was looking for spares today.

Oh. Doh, of course .. it's getting cold isn't it! ;-(

It's now working for no apparent
reason but will undoubtably stop again when it gets colder.

Ah, that's just a trap so you don't continue fault finding again ...

I have a manual
with a fault finding chart that I could copy if you want. Please reply
through group as my email doesn't work anymore.

Ok, that could be handy Peter. A mate has found a control unit in his
van (only after I mentioned "shame we don't know someone who had just
pulled one of these boilers out and has a known working one .."
(though he can't remember if it was good or bad)) and I'm going to
pick it up tonight and see what happens. If it doesn't work I might be
onto you again for the info (thanks).

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. my email is good.

The Electronics module is the same as the Pott. Profile boilers.

One low tech possibility is that as soon as the main gas lights the pilot
flame is diverted a little and the flame failure immediately stops the
main gas valve.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:23:42 +0000, raden wrote:

In message . com,
adder1969 writes


On Jan 23, 9:37 pm, raden wrote:
There are several documented cases (which I'm sure you can find on the
internet) of them exploding

Some of them suffered from "pre-ignition", which is a polite word for
explosion in the gas industry

As a boiler it should be treated with respect if you don't know what you
are doing


Actually no, I can't find any cases but I don't doubt it considering
the "wooof" they make when they fire up.

Someone did post some links once upon time

One of my employees who's ex BG also confirmed it

I think it was the older model with the White-Rogers GV, which leaked.

Apart form posting my usual views on people who defeat boiler controls I'd
point out that defeating the controls on an Netaheat-electronic would take
some doing.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:19:56 +0000, raden wrote:

In message , T i m
writes
Hi All,

Some good friends asked me if I knew any good heating engineers and
pre passing any names on thought I'd have a quick look at it myself (I
had helped them change the blower in it a few months ago).

It goes like this ..

Power on, fan spins (good blast of air outside) .. 30 sec later gas
control solenoid pulls in (presumably 'pilot stage?) and electronic
igniter tries to fire up the pilot. After a few tries (it's always
been like that apparently) the pilot lights but immediately (.75 sec)
goes out with a loud sort double clunk from the main gas valve and the
cycle repeats.

I've checked all the obvious (air pressure / flow? valve switching
over, wire all intact, pipe all in place etc) and am about to get /
fit a new HT lead as I thought I heard it arching out somewhere and
also though it was part of the flame failure detection cct (and
hopefully it's cheap) but I don't feel confident it is that?

Flame detection is in the 407676 (assuming that that is the version you
have, i.e. a netaheat electronic)


Failing that (ouch) then could it be the electronic igniter / pilot
control box doodad (407676 / £100, I've checked the back of that for
dry joints and it looks ok) or what else please?

It sounds like the GV relay on the pcb is not operating correctly for
whatever reason.

... unless someone like Ed has any other ideas

As someone else said, my website

www.cetltd.com is your best bet

Do all the low tech stuff first.

clean the burner, check the electrode, lead and gas supply pressures.

Then get a module.

If that does not fix it you'd have to say it was some weird GV problem
which might put the boiler beyond economic repair. The boiler around 20
years old.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:55:36 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:30:50 GMT, "Peter Andrews"
wrote:



http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp do an exchange control board for
£30 + VAT
+ delivery.

That's a good price for what I assume would be a guaranteed unit
Peter. Especially if it's to find out that it's not that?

No connection with company but my Neta Heat failed yesterday
:-( so I was looking for spares today.

Oh. Doh, of course .. it's getting cold isn't it! ;-(

It's now working for no apparent
reason but will undoubtably stop again when it gets colder.

Ah, that's just a trap so you don't continue fault finding again ...

I have a manual
with a fault finding chart that I could copy if you want. Please reply
through group as my email doesn't work anymore.

Ok, that could be handy Peter. A mate has found a control unit in his
van (only after I mentioned "shame we don't know someone who had just
pulled one of these boilers out and has a known working one .."
(though he can't remember if it was good or bad)) and I'm going to
pick it up tonight and see what happens. If it doesn't work I might be
onto you again for the info (thanks).

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. my email is good.

The Electronics module is the same as the Pott. Profile boilers.


No it's not -

Netaheat - 407676,

Profile - 407677

--
geoff

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:23:42 +0000, raden wrote:

In message . com,
adder1969 writes


On Jan 23, 9:37 pm, raden wrote:
There are several documented cases (which I'm sure you can find on the
internet) of them exploding

Some of them suffered from "pre-ignition", which is a polite word for
explosion in the gas industry

As a boiler it should be treated with respect if you don't know what you
are doing


Actually no, I can't find any cases but I don't doubt it considering
the "wooof" they make when they fire up.

Someone did post some links once upon time

One of my employees who's ex BG also confirmed it

I think it was the older model with the White-Rogers GV, which leaked.

Apart form posting my usual views on people who defeat boiler controls I'd
point out that defeating the controls on an Netaheat-electronic would take
some doing.

Yes, you couldn't get past the air pressure switch without an actual
switch, as the pcb requires the APS to be in the normally closed
position to bring the fan on

--
geoff

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:35:48 +0000 (UTC), Ed Sirett
wrote:



The Electronics module is the same as the Pott. Profile boilers.

Ok, so another avenue for a spare ;-)

One low tech possibility is that as soon as the main gas lights the pilot
flame is diverted a little and the flame failure immediately stops the
main gas valve.

I was looking at that carefully as it lights and indeed considered it
a possibility but as the replacement module seems to have cured the
problem (fingers still crossed) I guess it couldn't have been that
(unless it was marginal and the replacement module is less 'touchy')?

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:55:12 GMT, raden wrote:

The Electronics module is the same as the Pott. Profile boilers.


No it's not -

Netaheat - 407676,

Profile - 407677

Ok, noted ..

T i m

On Jan 24, 9:39 pm, Ed Sirett One of
my employees who's ex BG also confirmed itI think it was the older
model with the White-Rogers GV, which leaked.

Apart form posting my usual views on people who defeat boiler controls I'd
point out that defeating the controls on an Netaheat-electronic would take
some doing.



I had a look at mine last night and it's a 10/16 MkIIF. It's been in
service for about 20 years.

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:43:12 +0000 (UTC), Ed Sirett
wrote:


Do all the low tech stuff first.

clean the burner,

Tick

check the electrode, lead

Checked at first then replaced the ht lead and sparker electrode
(minimum order at local place).

and gas supply pressures.

Not done that as yet.

Then get a module.

We were lucky a mate had a 'spare' module in his van and exchanging it
seemed to do the job ;-)

If that does not fix it you'd have to say it was some weird GV problem
which might put the boiler beyond economic repair. The boiler around 20
years old.

And (now) going strong again it seems ;-)

There was one major issue and potentially still one 'other' issue.

The major issue was after fitting the spare module and having the
boiler run as good as gold, the next morning it was completely dead.
No fan, nothing. After checking / inspecting the module and
surrounding connections (and finding nothing wrong) I powered it back
up and it ran first time and according to the thanks I got via text
and on MSN last still running nicely ;-)

My only thought was if there was a failing in the orange connector
that joins the air pressure sensor to the module. *If* the actual plug
had dirty / poor connections inside it then that would have been
common to both modules and potentially a cause of issues /
intermittency? Me removing the plug and pushing it back on may have
cleaned the contacts slightly? shrug

Tapping the module lightly with a screwdriver handle did seem to make
something 'glitch' but then there are two relays in there so I guess
it might?

Anyway, pushing all the wiring about didn't seem to have any effect so
whatever it was seems to be gone .. for now at least .. ?

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:55:12 +0000, raden wrote:

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:55:36 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:30:50 GMT, "Peter Andrews"
wrote:



http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp do an exchange control board for
£30 + VAT
+ delivery.

That's a good price for what I assume would be a guaranteed unit
Peter. Especially if it's to find out that it's not that?

No connection with company but my Neta Heat failed yesterday
:-( so I was looking for spares today.

Oh. Doh, of course .. it's getting cold isn't it! ;-(

It's now working for no apparent
reason but will undoubtably stop again when it gets colder.

Ah, that's just a trap so you don't continue fault finding again ...

I have a manual
with a fault finding chart that I could copy if you want. Please reply
through group as my email doesn't work anymore.

Ok, that could be handy Peter. A mate has found a control unit in his
van (only after I mentioned "shame we don't know someone who had just
pulled one of these boilers out and has a known working one .."
(though he can't remember if it was good or bad)) and I'm going to
pick it up tonight and see what happens. If it doesn't work I might be
onto you again for the info (thanks).

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. my email is good.

The Electronics module is the same as the Pott. Profile boilers.


No it's not -

Netaheat - 407676,

Profile - 407677

OK I've made a mistake is there much difference?



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:55:12 +0000, raden wrote:

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:23:42 +0000, raden wrote:

In message . com,
adder1969 writes


On Jan 23, 9:37 pm, raden wrote:
There are several documented cases (which I'm sure you can find on the
internet) of them exploding

Some of them suffered from "pre-ignition", which is a polite word for
explosion in the gas industry

As a boiler it should be treated with respect if you don't know what you
are doing


Actually no, I can't find any cases but I don't doubt it considering
the "wooof" they make when they fire up.

Someone did post some links once upon time

One of my employees who's ex BG also confirmed it

I think it was the older model with the White-Rogers GV, which leaked.

Apart form posting my usual views on people who defeat boiler controls I'd
point out that defeating the controls on an Netaheat-electronic would take
some doing.

Yes, you couldn't get past the air pressure switch without an actual
switch, as the pcb requires the APS to be in the normally closed
position to bring the fan on

Probably the easiest way would be to make the pilot valve wiring drive both
gas valves simultaneously - and trust to a lot of luck.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:55:12 +0000, raden wrote:

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:55:36 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:30:50 GMT, "Peter Andrews"
wrote:



http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp do an exchange control board for
£30 + VAT
+ delivery.

That's a good price for what I assume would be a guaranteed unit
Peter. Especially if it's to find out that it's not that?

No connection with company but my Neta Heat failed yesterday
:-( so I was looking for spares today.

Oh. Doh, of course .. it's getting cold isn't it! ;-(

It's now working for no apparent
reason but will undoubtably stop again when it gets colder.

Ah, that's just a trap so you don't continue fault finding again ...

I have a manual
with a fault finding chart that I could copy if you want. Please reply
through group as my email doesn't work anymore.

Ok, that could be handy Peter. A mate has found a control unit in his
van (only after I mentioned "shame we don't know someone who had just
pulled one of these boilers out and has a known working one .."
(though he can't remember if it was good or bad)) and I'm going to
pick it up tonight and see what happens. If it doesn't work I might be
onto you again for the info (thanks).

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. my email is good.

The Electronics module is the same as the Pott. Profile boilers.


No it's not -

Netaheat - 407676,

Profile - 407677

OK I've made a mistake is there much difference?

Functionally, no (except that there is a delay on the fan in the 407677)

connection wise, yes - the gas valves, APS and fan are on Molex
connectors on the 407677in contrast to the grey and orange connectors on
the 407676


--
geoff

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
Apart form posting my usual views on people who defeat boiler controls I'd
point out that defeating the controls on an Netaheat-electronic would take
some doing.

Yes, you couldn't get past the air pressure switch without an actual
switch, as the pcb requires the APS to be in the normally closed
position to bring the fan on

Probably the easiest way would be to make the pilot valve wiring drive both
gas valves simultaneously - and trust to a lot of luck.

And a sympathetic insurance company if not


--
geoff

On Jan 25, 9:56 pm, raden wrote:

Probably the easiest way would be to make the pilot valve wiring drive both
gas valves simultaneously - and trust to a lot of luck.And a sympathetic insurance company if not

--
geoff

...or put a switch inbetween and switch the main gas on after the pilot
has lit.

In message .com,
adder1969 writes


On Jan 25, 9:56 pm, raden wrote:

Probably the easiest way would be to make the pilot valve wiring drive both
gas valves simultaneously - and trust to a lot of luck.

I really can't believe that Ed said that



And a sympathetic insurance company if not

--
geoff

..or put a switch inbetween and switch the main gas on after the pilot
has lit.

.... Over riding safety features which exist for a very good reason

Not a very safe or sensible way to go


--
geoff