I need to rerun an internal telephone cable in flexible conduit that will
be set into a concrete floor which will be laid soon. Looking at the
screwfix website there are two types.

20 and 25mm. Crush-resistant, self-extinguishing, LSF / Zero Halogen
Polpropylene. Rated IP55. Use with 'Industrial' and 'Metal Clad' ranges. EN
50086 BS 4607.

and

20mm. Crush-resistant, PVC-coated Galvanised Steel Conduit and 10 nickel
plated brass locknuts. Rated IP55. BS 50086.

Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use the
cheaper version?

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...31822&ts=62138

Many thanks

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 07:20:44 -0000, OBone wrote:

Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use
the cheaper version?

IMHO you'd only *need* the steel version if mains was involved and it was
going to be buried less than 50mm below the floor surface.

On the basis that there is no mains involved and steel will rust (even
galvanised eventually) I'd use the plastic. Note it can be "fun" pulling
cables through plastic corrogated conduit unless the run is dead
straight, don't forget the bends at each end to bring the duct above the
floor and always fit the biggest size you can. More space makes it a bit
easier to add cables later and most of the "cost" (labour, time, ease) is
putting the conduit in not materials.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

OBone wrote:
I need to rerun an internal telephone cable

do you /need/ to rerun the cable ? can't you use DECT ?

if not, plastic is ok but as you've been advised already, put the
cable in the conduit before setting it in the concrete.

"." wrote in message
...
OBone wrote:
I need to rerun an internal telephone cable

do you /need/ to rerun the cable ? can't you use DECT ?

if not, plastic is ok but as you've been advised already, put the
cable in the conduit before setting it in the concrete.



Thanks for the replies. I have to run a cable as it will be used for
broadband. I will also place the cable in the conduit before laying it in
place.

OBone wrote:

I need to rerun an internal telephone cable in flexible conduit that will
be set into a concrete floor which will be laid soon. Looking at the
screwfix website there are two types.

20 and 25mm. Crush-resistant, self-extinguishing, LSF / Zero Halogen
Polpropylene. Rated IP55. Use with 'Industrial' and 'Metal Clad' ranges. EN
50086 BS 4607.

and

20mm. Crush-resistant, PVC-coated Galvanised Steel Conduit and 10 nickel
plated brass locknuts. Rated IP55. BS 50086.

Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use the
cheaper version?

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...31822&ts=62138

Many thanks

Both are a bit OTT for phone wire. Steel is liable to cause concrete
faliure through rusting at some pont, so I'd say no to that one.

Why do you need to conduit the stuff at all?

I dont know where the wire is going from and to, but when burying LV
wiring I'd always consider putting in a good deal more cores than
wanted immediately, as the cost is close to zero and the possible
future uses many.


NT

OBone wrote:
"." wrote in message
...
OBone wrote:
I need to rerun an internal telephone cable

do you /need/ to rerun the cable ? can't you use DECT ?

if not, plastic is ok but as you've been advised already, put the
cable in the conduit before setting it in the concrete.



Thanks for the replies. I have to run a cable as it will be used for
broadband. I will also place the cable in the conduit before laying it in
place.

cables ? what are these cables of which you speak ?

go wi-fi ;-)

OBone wrote on 30/12/2006 :
Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use the
cheaper version?

Ordinary plastic conduit will be more than adequate for the job and
cheaper/easier to use - no need for steel at all.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:06:01 GMT, . wrote:

cables ? what are these cables of which you speak ?

go wi-fi ;-)

Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

OBone wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I have to run a cable as it will be used for
broadband. I will also place the cable in the conduit before laying it in
place.

It might be more practical to put in a draw-string (use polypropylene
twine) and temporarily plug the ends of the tube to prevent concrete
entering. Then pull your cable through later, when the site conditions
are more amenable to delicate operations.

--
Andy

Thanks for the replies. I have to run a cable as it will be used for
broadband. I will also place the cable in the conduit before laying it in
place.

Leave a lenght of cord in the conduit as well because there WILL come a time
when you need to pull another cable through.

Dave

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:06:01 GMT, . wrote:

cables ? what are these cables of which you speak ?

go wi-fi ;-)

Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...

yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

OBone wrote:
I need to rerun an internal telephone cable in flexible conduit that
will be set into a concrete floor which will be laid soon. Looking
at the screwfix website there are two types.

20 and 25mm. Crush-resistant, self-extinguishing, LSF / Zero Halogen
Polpropylene. Rated IP55. Use with 'Industrial' and 'Metal Clad'
ranges. EN 50086 BS 4607.

and

20mm. Crush-resistant, PVC-coated Galvanised Steel Conduit and 10
nickel plated brass locknuts. Rated IP55. BS 50086.

Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use
the cheaper version?

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...31822&ts=62138

Many thanks

Don't pay ridiculous prices for plastic tube, get overflow pipe from B&Q,
it's bendable too, so you don't need as many elbows

wrote:
OBone wrote:

I need to rerun an internal telephone cable in flexible conduit that will
be set into a concrete floor which will be laid soon.

Why do you need to conduit the stuff at all?

Mechanical protection is not needed, the concrete will be prettty good
for that already. A plastic pipe sure wont add any strength.
Why is the cable ok to clip to the wall, yet when buried in concrete
you want conduit?


NT

To answer points raised in some of your replies the cable will be a CAT 5
internal computer cable that will be used to push the incoming feed to my
computer room. Three pairs will be used. One pair will be used for the
main line, which will be terminated on a master line jack with a built in
filter. Pair 2 will push the line back to where it started to connect up
with the rest of the existing house wiring. Pair 3 will be used for a
second business line leaving pair 4 spare. I already have this arrangement
up and running but the wiring runs across a porch that is about to be built
so I need to bury the cable.


The reason for not laying the cable direct in concrete is that I have a fear
that over the years the concrete could have a detrimental affect on the
cable and as the underground bit will be only around 4ft until it enters the
garage I prefer to play safe and run it in conduit.

Many thanks everyone for your input.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:41:22 GMT, . wrote:

go wi-fi ;-)

Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...

yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Are there any WiFi systems that'll run at 100Mbps throughput?
Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?
Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:41:22 GMT, . wrote:

go wi-fi ;-)

Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...

yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Are there any WiFi systems that'll run at 100Mbps throughput?

yes. though quite why anyone would resort to a slow network when the
modern equivalent of floppynet is much faster and far more secure.

Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?

don't be silly, if the "hax0r" wants it enough they will simply steal the box.

Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

yes. all the ones I set up do.

now I /really/ know how much you know, ta ;-)

OBone wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I have to run a cable as it will be used for
broadband.

Wireless routers are cheap ?

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:41:22 GMT, . wrote:

go wi-fi ;-)
Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...
yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Are there any WiFi systems that'll run at 100Mbps throughput?

There are, but this hasn't been standardized yet. They run at 108Mbps.

However, given that the broadband connection under ideal conditions will
run at 8Mbps max (24Mbps max w/ADSL2/+) what's the point in having a LAN
which is faster ? Pretty silly idea. Even then, in an office LAN I've
seldom seen a serious need for high bandwidth.

Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?

I'm not sure what this requirement means.

Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

Mine did, right out of the box.

Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:

Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?

I'm not sure what this requirement means.

Oh, you mean for managing it.

Yup, my router has a configuration setting so that it cannot be managed
over the wireless connection.

Harry Bloomfield verbally sodomised in
:

OBone wrote on 30/12/2006 :
Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use
the cheaper version?

Ordinary plastic conduit will be more than adequate for the job and
cheaper/easier to use - no need for steel at all.


I'm steel standing, yeah yeah yeah.

--
Phil Kyle™

T
h i
i s
s l
f i l
S o n o
i u e n
g r s g

Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:
Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:

Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?

I'm not sure what this requirement means.

Oh, you mean for managing it.

Yup, my router has a configuration setting so that it cannot be managed
over the wireless connection.

shhhhh :-)

On 2006-12-30 09:45:22 +0000, "Dave Liquorice" said:

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 07:20:44 -0000, OBone wrote:

Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use
the cheaper version?

IMHO you'd only *need* the steel version if mains was involved and it
was going to be buried less than 50mm below the floor surface.
On the basis that there is no mains involved and steel will rust (even
galvanised eventually) I'd use the plastic. Note it can be "fun"
pulling cables through plastic corrogated conduit unless the run is
dead straight, don't forget the bends at each end to bring the duct
above the floor and always fit the biggest size you can. More space
makes it a bit easier to add cables later and most of the "cost"
(labour, time, ease) is putting the conduit in not materials.

There's a solution to the corrugated conduit problem.

- Take small piece of cloth and tie a stout linen thread to it. Thread
is a little longer than conduit

- Tie a piece of string to the thread. String is just over twice
length of conduit

- Tie cable to string at the middle. Tape it carefully to prevent
cable end snagging in the conduit.

- Tape a small piece of nylon stocking or eqivalent to one end of conduit.

- Place vacuum cleaner nozzle over same end and tape over to make a
seal. Use duct tape - it's good enough
for Tom Hanks and space rockets so will be fine for this.

- Turn on vacuum cleaner and introduce cloth carefully into open end of
conduit. If it tends to stick, cut off some cloth.

- Introduce thread in slowly until it stops (length will show that it's
add the far end.

- Turn off vacuum cleaner and remove nozzle and piece of nylon.

- Pull through thread, followed by string and cable.

- This will leave cable and a piece of string in the conduit for
pulling through in the future.

Use 25mm conduit or preferably the larger 50mm stuff that's used under
footpaths etc.

On 2006-12-30 16:50:36 +0000, "Geronimo W. Christ Esq"
said:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:41:22 GMT, . wrote:

go wi-fi ;-)
Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...
yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Are there any WiFi systems that'll run at 100Mbps throughput?

There are, but this hasn't been standardized yet. They run at 108Mbps.

The draft specs and manufacturers' marketing departments mention this
speed. It is only achievable under ideal conditions over a short range.



However, given that the broadband connection under ideal conditions
will run at 8Mbps max (24Mbps max w/ADSL2/+) what's the point in having
a LAN which is faster ? Pretty silly idea. Even then, in an office LAN
I've seldom seen a serious need for high bandwidth.

Data transfers of large files?



Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?

I'm not sure what this requirement means.

Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

Mine did, right out of the box.

In that case, I would turn on some form of security....

On 2006-12-30 13:41:22 +0000, "." said:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:06:01 GMT, . wrote:

cables ? what are these cables of which you speak ?

go wi-fi ;-)

Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...

yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Actually he does.

Considerably more than you, I suspect.

On 2006-12-30 16:30:39 +0000, "." said:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

yes. all the ones I set up do.

now I /really/ know how much you know, ta ;-)

You don't, you know.....

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-12-30 13:41:22 +0000, "." said:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:06:01 GMT, . wrote:

cables ? what are these cables of which you speak ?

go wi-fi ;-)

Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...

yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Actually he does.

Considerably more than you, I suspect.

yah. ok. whatever.

Andy Hall wrote:

However, given that the broadband connection under ideal conditions
will run at 8Mbps max (24Mbps max w/ADSL2/+) what's the point in
having a LAN which is faster ? Pretty silly idea. Even then, in an
office LAN I've seldom seen a serious need for high bandwidth.

Data transfers of large files?

It depends on the environment, but in an home/office LAN very seldom. I
can't imagine why someone would have a LAN at home and spend time
constantly copying files up and down. Nightly backups are just about the
only practical example that I can think of ...

Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

Mine did, right out of the box.

In that case, I would turn on some form of security....

Why on earth would I do that ?

.. wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-12-30 13:41:22 +0000, "." said:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:06:01 GMT, . wrote:

cables ? what are these cables of which you speak ?

go wi-fi ;-)

Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...

yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Actually he does.

Considerably more than you, I suspect.

yah. ok. whatever.

Your graceful apology & retraction is accepted.

On 2006-12-30 21:15:08 +0000, "Geronimo W. Christ Esq"
said:

Andy Hall wrote:

However, given that the broadband connection under ideal conditions
will run at 8Mbps max (24Mbps max w/ADSL2/+) what's the point in having
a LAN which is faster ? Pretty silly idea. Even then, in an office LAN
I've seldom seen a serious need for high bandwidth.

Data transfers of large files?

It depends on the environment, but in an home/office LAN very seldom.

Not true.

It depends on what the business is that they carry out on their home office.

If it is related to IT/networking or to some form of media handling
then the data volumes can be large.


I can't imagine why someone would have a LAN at home and spend time
constantly copying files up and down. Nightly backups are just about
the only practical example that I can think of ...

There are many more.




Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

Mine did, right out of the box.

In that case, I would turn on some form of security....

Why on earth would I do that ?

Up to you.

One philosophy is not to bother with security in the wireless domain,
to treat the wireless network as dirty
and connect to the protected network via a firewall.

A second one is to use one of the wireless security mechanisms

A third is to use both of the above.

A fourth (for the terminally stupid, and what tends to come out of the
box) is to do neither.

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:50:36 +0000, Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:

Are there any WiFi systems that'll run at 100Mbps throughput?

There are, but this hasn't been standardized yet. They run at 108Mbps.

Real throughput? or a marketing, ideal conditions, never to be seen in
the real world, headline rate?

WiFi or some other technology? I was careful to specify WiFi as I am
aware of systems that will run at pretty fast speeds but they tend to be
point to point and cost several grand or more at each end.

what's the point in having a LAN which is faster ?

So I don't have to wait for the data to trickle to/from the server and my
machine. One single A4 photo print this morning was 56.5Meg is size.
Approx 45 seconds at 10Mbps or 4.5 seconds at 100Mbps, I know which I
prefer...

Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?

I'm not sure what this requirement means.

Oh dear. With any radio based system anyone within radio range can "see"
the traffic on that system. This applies not only to WiFi but baby
alarms, cordless phones, anything that uses a radio. How much of a
security hole this is depends on the technology used and what security
features are included *and* enabled.

At the bottom end I believe that baby alarms can be "interesting" when
the parents of said baby think that having a second baby would be nice.
B-)

Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

Mine did, right out of the box.

You just made the physical connections and nothing else? You didn't have
to load a driver or configure anything? Oh dear, yet another wireless LAN
available for free loaders and identity thieves. Down in the town the
majority of the domestic wireless LANs that have sprung up in the last
year or so are wide open. Default ID's, default passwords, no encryption
etc etc.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 20:37:11 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

There's a solution to the corrugated conduit problem.

I got a draw line in (steel draw tape) but not matter how hard I pulled
the CAT5 wouldn't come through unless the 20mm conduit was almost 100%
straight.

Use duct tape - it's good enough for Tom Hanks and space rockets so
will be fine for this.

B-) Apollo 13, must watch that again some time. Remember it from real
time as well.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

OBone wrote:

To answer points raised in some of your replies the cable will be a CAT 5
internal computer cable that will be used to push the incoming feed to my
computer room. Three pairs will be used. One pair will be used for the
main line, which will be terminated on a master line jack with a built in
filter. Pair 2 will push the line back to where it started to connect up
with the rest of the existing house wiring. Pair 3 will be used for a
second business line leaving pair 4 spare. I already have this arrangement
up and running but the wiring runs across a porch that is about to be built
so I need to bury the cable.


The reason for not laying the cable direct in concrete is that I have a fear
that over the years the concrete could have a detrimental affect on the
cable and as the underground bit will be only around 4ft until it enters the
garage I prefer to play safe and run it in conduit.

Many thanks everyone for your input.

It wont, but conduit does give the advantage that you can run anything
else down there if you ever want to in future.


NT

"Phil L" wrote


Don't pay ridiculous prices for plastic tube, get overflow pipe from B&Q,
it's bendable too, so you don't need as many elbows



Now that's a thought!
cheers

A fourth (for the terminally stupid, and what tends to come out of the
box) is to do neither.

BT Router impressed me the other day, out of the box with WPA enabled.Well
done BT.

Dave

wrote:
wrote:
OBone wrote:

I need to rerun an internal telephone cable in flexible conduit that will
be set into a concrete floor which will be laid soon.

Why do you need to conduit the stuff at all?

Mechanical protection is not needed, the concrete will be prettty good
for that already. A plastic pipe sure wont add any strength.
Why is the cable ok to clip to the wall, yet when buried in concrete
you want conduit?


NT

Some issues with capacitance to ground, and some with chemical action.


I'd use preloaded flexible round trunking, or even a bit of flexible
heating pipe that is designed for UFH.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:41:22 GMT, . wrote:

go wi-fi ;-)
Cables? Reliable, secure, faster...
yah, I can see you know a /lot/ about it.

Are there any WiFi systems that'll run at 100Mbps throughput?
Are there any WiFi systems that have physical only access?
Are there any WiFi systems that "just work"?

Are there any wifi systems that will punch through walls rendered over
steel mesh?

Steve ****** wrote:

Your graceful apology & retraction is accepted.

oh, that's me crushed.

On 2006-12-31 09:26:34 +0000, gort said:


A fourth (for the terminally stupid, and what tends to come out of the
box) is to do neither.

BT Router impressed me the other day, out of the box with WPA enabled.Well
done BT.

Dave

Did they remember to include the password?

Is it the same for all of them or based on something like the MAC address,
or is it genuinely individual and random?

On 2006-12-31 01:14:27 +0000, "Dave Liquorice" said:
Down in the town the majority of the domestic wireless LANs that have
sprung up in the last year or so are wide open. Default ID's, default
passwords, no encryption etc etc.

Some towns take a lot of civic pride in having that, although not
normally through the incompetence of individuals.

Bury St. Edmunds who have internet access built into a park bench for example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1475654.stm

"OBone" wrote in message
...
I need to rerun an internal telephone cable in flexible conduit that will


Do I need to use the PVC coated Galvanised Steel version or can I use the
cheaper version?

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...31822&ts=62138

I just used standard corrugated flexible ducting from TLC , and also
previously used standard BT grey uPVC telephone duct for the comms cables
(free from BT)

You do not need crush resistant, rust proof or similar ... it's going to be
incased in concrete so has all strength it needs from that.