As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

I have read the diy faq which suggest starting with a 1/4" collet
machine of about 1KW. As I am a great fan of bosch equipment I have
identtified this.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=20301#

Does anybody have any advice or opinions about this.?

And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes? Can wide grooves be cut
by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

And finally - how is "router" pronounced in this context? :-)

On 27 Aug 2006 08:27:20 -0700, dcbwhaley wrote:
As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

I have read the diy faq which suggest starting with a 1/4" collet
machine of about 1KW. As I am a great fan of bosch equipment I have
identtified this.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=20301#

Does anybody have any advice or opinions about this.?

Yup, looks fine. You'll find cheaper/better, pricier/crappier ones.
FYI, in this country Trend seems to be the benchmark brand ... partly
because of the range of accessories you can get for them.

And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes?

yes, but see below abot bracing

Can wide grooves be cut by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

yes, but get/make a jig to restrict the lateral movement, or buy one
of these:
http://tinyurl.com/pr47c

One thing about using a router. Since the router bit "bites" into
the wood, you get a lateral force imparted by this burrowing action.
This means that you should always have the router braced against
something, otherwise you will likely find the cut deviates from a line.

The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

And finally - how is "router" pronounced in this context? :-)

like "outer", not "ooter"

--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

The message m
from "dcbwhaley" contains these words:


And finally - how is "router" pronounced in this context? :-)

Ow as in ouch.

Personally I'd skip the 1/4" stage and go straight to the 1/2". The
smaller shanked cutters seem rather flimsy and I've had a couple let go.

Most important of all, in my opinion, is good dust extraction. Something
that won't get in the way of you working.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"dcbwhaley" wrote in message
ps.com...
As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

There seems to be a lot of fuss when it comes to cutting MDF, is it valid?

"R D S" wrote in message
...

"dcbwhaley" wrote in message
ups.com...
As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

There seems to be a lot of fuss when it comes to cutting MDF, is it valid?
Do you mean health wise?

All I know is I cut and profiled some fairly large bookshelves and I used a
mask. When I came to fit them one was wrong and needed recutting. Because I
had misplaced the dust mask and because I was too lazy/in a hurry to finish
to find it, I cut and profiled the shelf without a mask. My wife helped to
hold it whilst I did. It may have been a coincidence but I got a persistent
cough straight after and then shortly after my wife developed asthma which
took a couple of years to clear up. I know I won't do that again.

H

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
snip

Most important of all, in my opinion, is good dust extraction.
Something
that won't get in the way of you working.


Certainly if working with MDF...

dcbwhaley wrote:
As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come
to teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am
building fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long
brass adjustable shelf support strips.

I have read the diy faq which suggest starting with a 1/4" collet
machine of about 1KW. As I am a great fan of bosch equipment I have
identtified this.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=20301#

Does anybody have any advice or opinions about this.?

And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes? Can wide grooves be
cut by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

And finally - how is "router" pronounced in this context? :-)

Buy a router with an 1/2" inch collet because you can then come down to an
1/4" collet,usually supplied with a decent branded router plus you tackle
the beefier jobs with is not possible with a 1/4" at times.

Buy of ebay and import from the states as these cutters are 2 or 3 times
the price over here in the UK.

I've just purchased a door panel set of two cutters of ebay Priced 21GBP
inc of P&P I dare say I will pay import duty and vat on its arrival but in
total its going to cost 25GBP,normal price over here 48GBP thereabouts.
These are TC(Tungsten Carbide).

Suggest you buy a cheap set for getting the hang of the router and see what
the different shapes do.

Router,best woodwork tool since sliced bread its the bees knees of any
woodwork power tool.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Guy King wrote:


Personally I'd skip the 1/4" stage and go straight to the 1/2". The
smaller shanked cutters seem rather flimsy and I've had a couple let
go.


I'd go along with that,and as I stated you can get an 1/4" collet in an
1/2" router.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=20301#

Does anybody have any advice or opinions about this.?

You won't go far wrong with that. Though you could also consider a 1/2"
collet machine (you can use reduction sleeves down to 1/4" if you
want).

Really depends what other stuff you see yourself doing - kitchen unit
work would favour the larger.

OTOH I use CMT 1/2" (same as the DeWalt, based on the old Elu177) which
is great, but I'll eventually buy something like your suggestion just
for detailed work.

And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes? Can wide grooves be cut
by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

They can plunge holes, but they lack a centering tip like a drill, so
they really need to be clamped still - if you must do it.

Multiple passes is what routing is all about. Small cutter to cut a
wide groove will produce beautifully accurate results, so your shelf
support strips will pop in perfectly.

Very important is the direction of cut, you must move the router so
you're pushing against the rotation of the cutter. Backcutting is
dangerous. (Obviously when you plunge cut a groove, the cutter is in
contact with both sides on the first pass)

At what sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

Buy the best you can afford, especially for the straight cutters you
use all the time (you can get disposable/replaceable blade cutters for
heavy use). For one off usage, cheaper stuff may be ok. Don't buy those
enormous assortemnt boxes - I only use about 5 cutters regularly.

This should keep you occupied about a routers and bits.

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/menu2.htm

http://patwarner.com/

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On 2006-08-27 16:27:20 +0100, "dcbwhaley" said:

As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

I have read the diy faq which suggest starting with a 1/4" collet
machine of about 1KW. As I am a great fan of bosch equipment I have
identtified this.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=20301#

Does anybody have any advice or opinions about this.?

A 6.25mm sized router is useful, and good choices would be between
Bosch, DeWalt, Makita and Trend.

A larger 12.7mm router would be more versatile because you can do much
more substantial cuts with this size of cutter. They come with 6.25
and sometimes 8mm collets as well so you can fit the smaller bits.
The only thing is that they are somewhat heavier. For these, I would
look at the above brands plus Freud, Festool. and CMT

I have both sizes and use both. The 6.25mm is usefully light which can
be a help with intricate work. OTOH, if I had to pick one size only,
then it would be the larger one.

However if you do go this way, don't be tempted to skimp by going for
the £100 DIY shed products. I have never found a decent one yet.
Either the power is inadequate (don't do what the rating suggests), the
plunge action is sticky or soft start poor. Most seem to suffer from
all three. Really one needs to spend around £160-170 for a 12.7mm
product like the Freud to get something worth having in this size.




And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes?

Yes you can. Perhaps you are thinking about holes for shelf pegs.
There are jigs to help with this as well.

Can wide grooves be cut
by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

Definitely. A worthwhile investment if you are going to do this a
lot, are guide clamps. Trend do a fairly generic one which is
positioned across the work and clamped to it. Then the router is run
along the edge. Bosch and Festool make versions for their products
where there is a base that fits the router and slides in the rail -
easier to use and may be more accurate.
Alternatively, you can take a straight piece of hardwood or a long
spirit level and clamp that.
All you then do is to move the guide across as required. Note that if
you go for a 12.7mm router, you can get some quite wide bits that may
be able to cut the whole groove without moving the guide rail.
These will need to be run through the work in several passes, lowering
each time.



The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

It really depends on the cutter type.

The bargain basement ones are real rubbish and to be avoided.

I would select from among CMT, Freud and Trend. Also, there is no
real point in buying sets of assorted cutters. Most will remain
unused. It's far better to buy them as you need them and that
spreads the cost as well. Bear in mind that the largest ones - e.g.
for panel raising, can only be safely used in a router table.

On the subject of safety, safety glasses with EN impact rating are
essential and it's almost as essential to have some form of hearing
protection unless you are going to do very short jobs. Even then, it's
a good idea.

If you can fix up some dust extraction with a shop vacuum cleaner, it
really helps when cutting with larger cutters - a) so that they work
properly and b) so that you can see what you are doing.




And finally - how is "router" pronounced in this context? :-)

There is only one way to pronounce "router" in any context. It is not
"rooter" but the other way.

The message
from "R D S" contains these words:

There seems to be a lot of fuss when it comes to cutting MDF, is it valid?

You mean the dust? It's certainly very fine dust and gets everywhere
without proper dust extraction. I certainly wouldn't consider routing it
or doing anything else with it without good dust control.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The message ews.net
from "Jerry" contains these words:

Most important of all, in my opinion, is good dust extraction.
Something
that won't get in the way of you working.


Certainly if working with MDF...

Bit of a sore point at the moment. A few months ago I bought a B&Q own
brand dust extractor. Sodding thing passes the "filtered" air through
the motor cavity. First this stuffed the inside of the two-way rocker
switch[1] with very fine dust until it packed up. So I replaced the
switch with a better sealed toggle switch.
Now, today, it's clogged the unprotected bearings so badly that the
outer has started spinning in the plastic support.

Luckily I'd saved the receipt, so back it goes.

I ain't buying anything from B&Q's Performance line.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The message
from "The3rd Earl Of Derby" contains these words:

Router,best woodwork tool since sliced bread its the bees knees of any
woodwork power tool.

Good quality accessories make life easier. The very flimsy fences
supplied with cheap routers don't make life easy as they're too
flexible. I'm still using the fence of my old Elu 'cos it fits my other
cheaper router.

Speed control is good, too. Some bits are just too large to work well at
very high speeds. I've a finger jointer which is much easier to use at
low speeds. Quieter, too!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:
The message
from "The3rd Earl Of Derby" contains these words:

Router,best woodwork tool since sliced bread its the bees knees of
any woodwork power tool.

Good quality accessories make life easier. The very flimsy fences
supplied with cheap routers don't make life easy as they're too
flexible. I'm still using the fence of my old Elu 'cos it fits my
other cheaper router.

Speed control is good, too. Some bits are just too large to work well
at very high speeds. I've a finger jointer which is much easier to
use at low speeds. Quieter, too!

Now that I know how this *dovetail jig* works and it dimentions and
clampwork,I can now make a wider one in wood,got a couple of sheets of
1/16th alluminium plates to make the finger plates.

And sell the one I bought for 20GBP on ebay. ;-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"dcbwhaley" wrote in message
s.com...
As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

I have read the diy faq which suggest starting with a 1/4" collet
machine of about 1KW. As I am a great fan of bosch equipment I have
identtified this.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=20301#

Does anybody have any advice or opinions about this.?

And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes? Can wide grooves be cut
by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

And finally - how is "router" pronounced in this context? :-)

====================
A 'soft start' motor is worth having if you're new to routing. This gives you
better control on starting a cut. You might check the specifications of the
Bosch to see if it has this facility.

Trend - probably market leaders - have a series of downloadable guides which you
might find useful. See here and browse a little:

http://www.trendmachinery.co.uk/libfiles/library.html

Cic.





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The message
from "Cicero" contains these words:

A 'soft start' motor is worth having if you're new to routing. This
gives you
better control on starting a cut.

Eh? I always have the cutter spinning well before I introduce it to the
wood. Soft start's nice in many ways, but better control on starting a
cut isn't one of the reasons I'd recognise. Mine's rather /too/ soft.
There's about a second during which nothing noticable happens, and
several times I've let go of the trigger[1] and checked the plug.

[1] When it had a trigger. Got a proper switch now.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On 27 Aug 2006 08:27:20 -0700, "dcbwhaley" wrote:

As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

I have read the diy faq which suggest starting with a 1/4" collet
machine of about 1KW. As I am a great fan of bosch equipment I have
identtified this.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=20301#

Does anybody have any advice or opinions about this.?

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1

I've got the Trend and I use it a fair bit. If/when I need a 1/2"
router I'll start off with the other one.

I've also got a cheap 1000W router with 1/4 collet but it gets very
little use, it's a bit unwieldy for small stuff and doesn't take 1/2"
bits.

And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes?

Yes, with the right bit.

Can wide grooves be cut
by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

Yup.

The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

IME the cheap ones work fine though are more likely to burn or tear
grain out if run at the wrong speed. The expensive ones give a far far
better finish.

Worth having both, use cheap bits for MDF and most cutting and an
expensive one where a really good finish is needed. Ebay is a good
source of bits.

cheers,
Pete.

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Cicero" contains these words:

A 'soft start' motor is worth having if you're new to routing. This
gives you
better control on starting a cut.

Eh? I always have the cutter spinning well before I introduce it to the
wood. Soft start's nice in many ways, but better control on starting a
cut isn't one of the reasons I'd recognise. Mine's rather /too/ soft.
There's about a second during which nothing noticable happens, and
several times I've let go of the trigger[1] and checked the plug.

[1] When it had a trigger. Got a proper switch now.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

=========================
Obviously a difference in technique. I prefer to bring the router to the start
of the cut and let it bite gradually, but I suppose if you're using your router
daily you get used to a hard start.

I believe the trigger was introduced as a safety measure - a bit like a 'dead
man's handle', but it seems to cause more problems than it solves.

Cic.


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The message
from "Cicero" contains these words:

I believe the trigger was introduced as a safety measure - a bit like
a 'dead
man's handle', but it seems to cause more problems than it solves.

Which is why I removed the sodding thing and put a proper switch in.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Pete C wrote:

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1


They'd burn out on some of the jobs I've paced my DeWalt through.

The 500W jobby is just a hobbyist router for cutting out inlays and stuff
like that,as for the other :-)

To each their own I suppose. :-)


--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

snipped

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1

I've got the Trend and I use it a fair bit. If/when I need a 1/2"
router I'll start off with the other one.

I've also got a cheap 1000W router with 1/4 collet but it gets very
little use, it's a bit unwieldy for small stuff and doesn't take 1/2"
bits.

snipped

cheers,
Pete.

=============================
The specification for the Trend one says it has a pillar drill fitment. Does
this mean what it appears to suggest - that you can attach it to a pillar drill?
If so how does it work, if you've tried it?

Cic.


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Cicero wrote:
snipped

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1

I've got the Trend and I use it a fair bit. If/when I need a 1/2"
router I'll start off with the other one.

I've also got a cheap 1000W router with 1/4 collet but it gets very
little use, it's a bit unwieldy for small stuff and doesn't take 1/2"
bits.

snipped

cheers,
Pete.

=============================
The specification for the Trend one says it has a pillar drill
fitment. Does this mean what it appears to suggest - that you can
attach it to a pillar drill? If so how does it work, if you've tried
it?

Cic.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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Just by detaching the main body from the plunger base,this is also common
on the B&D 850W routers

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
k...
Cicero wrote:
snipped

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1

I've got the Trend and I use it a fair bit. If/when I need a 1/2"
router I'll start off with the other one.

I've also got a cheap 1000W router with 1/4 collet but it gets very
little use, it's a bit unwieldy for small stuff and doesn't take 1/2"
bits.

snipped

cheers,
Pete.

=============================
The specification for the Trend one says it has a pillar drill
fitment. Does this mean what it appears to suggest - that you can
attach it to a pillar drill? If so how does it work, if you've tried
it?

Cic.

Just by detaching the main body from the plunger base,this is also common
on the B&D 850W routers

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


=============================
How does it attach to the pillar drill?

Cic.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Cicero wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
k...
Cicero wrote:
snipped

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1

I've got the Trend and I use it a fair bit. If/when I need a 1/2"
router I'll start off with the other one.

I've also got a cheap 1000W router with 1/4 collet but it gets very
little use, it's a bit unwieldy for small stuff and doesn't take
1/2" bits.

snipped

cheers,
Pete.

=============================
The specification for the Trend one says it has a pillar drill
fitment. Does this mean what it appears to suggest - that you can
attach it to a pillar drill? If so how does it work, if you've tried
it?

Cic.

Just by detaching the main body from the plunger base,this is also
common on the B&D 850W routers

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


=============================
How does it attach to the pillar drill?

Cic.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 356 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
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I think it attaches to the pillar drills work area stand upside down?
although I suppose most routers can be adapted to it?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
k...
Cicero wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
k...
Cicero wrote:
snipped

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1

I've got the Trend and I use it a fair bit. If/when I need a 1/2"
router I'll start off with the other one.

I've also got a cheap 1000W router with 1/4 collet but it gets very
little use, it's a bit unwieldy for small stuff and doesn't take
1/2" bits.

snipped

cheers,
Pete.

=============================
The specification for the Trend one says it has a pillar drill
fitment. Does this mean what it appears to suggest - that you can
attach it to a pillar drill? If so how does it work, if you've tried
it?

Cic.

Just by detaching the main body from the plunger base,this is also
common on the B&D 850W routers

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


=============================
How does it attach to the pillar drill?

Cic.



I think it attaches to the pillar drills work area stand upside down?
although I suppose most routers can be adapted to it?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite



===========================
That's more or less what I was thinking. I suppose it depends on the design of
the drill table. I'll have a look at mine tomorrow and see what I can do.

Cic.


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On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:44:19 GMT, "Cicero"
wrote:

The specification for the Trend one says it has a pillar drill fitment. Does
this mean what it appears to suggest - that you can attach it to a pillar drill?
If so how does it work, if you've tried it?

Not quite, the body has a 43mm collar so it will fit a drill stand.

Haven't tried it myself.

cheers,
Pete.

Forgot to say, get a box of these:

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=ffp2+10

pair of these:

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=safety+spectacles&Search=1

and some decent comfortable earmuffs.

cheers,
Pete.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:43:44 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

Pete C wrote:

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1


They'd burn out on some of the jobs I've paced my DeWalt through.

What DeWalt have you got, would you recommend it to the OP or not?

If not, what would you recommend the OP get, and why?

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:43:44 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

Pete C wrote:

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK

http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1


They'd burn out on some of the jobs I've paced my DeWalt through.

What DeWalt have you got, would you recommend it to the OP or not?


I'd recommend any of the DeWalt range of routers if he's wanting to shell
out DeWalt prices?

If not, what would you recommend the OP get, and why?

Makita,HitachM12,Dewalt.

For a power tool that I know I'm going to use almost daily I go with the
*big boys toys*,anything I would use infrequently I buy cheap.

The router gets hammered week in week out,cheap branded routers are not up
to daily punishment so you need one thats of an industrial usage.

The motor is the main criteria.
Then comes the bearings for zero side movement(thats wobble for you)

I would like a Milwaukee or Makita but maybe I'll have to save more
pennies. :-(



cheers,
Pete.



--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:19:30 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

The motor is the main criteria.
Then comes the bearings for zero side movement(thats wobble for you)

No, it's play.

cheers,
Pete.

dcbwhaley wrote:
As a largely self taught woodworker I have decided the time has come to
teach myself to use a router. My reason for this is that I am building
fitted bookcases (in MDF) and I would like to fit those long brass
adjustable shelf support strips.

Having just completed (well, nearly) a similar project from a pretty
unskilled start, I'd say you'll be OK with almost any router *for this
job* - my bookcases have been done with an allegedly 1200W 1/4in/8mm
Homebase one that cost twenty quid on special offer.

For the money, it has been great, but not being able to use 1/2in bits
is becoming too limiting for me: on the other hand, it is very light
and manageable, and has a fairly smooth plunge.

Bits - I took the approach of buying a half-decent box set to see what
I used, and then good bits for specific purposes. For slots for the
shelf strips, I've got a Freud bit that cost more than the router, and
gives a much better cut than the equivalent in my box set. From limited
experience, I think it's easier to do a good job with good bits and a
crap router than with a top-end machine but cheap bits.

One word of warning on bookcase strips. If you decide that routing the
slots to be a tight fit is a good idea, then assemble the bookcases,
and then paint them, you may find that a large rubber mallet is
insufficient to persuade the strips to fit.

I ended up using sanding drums in a brand new Dremel (gutless and made
of cheese - it's going back), which was less dull than sanding the
paint overspill by hand or trying to make some special scraping tool.
Cut the slots oversize, mask thoroughly, or paint with a roller (oh,
and suck these eggs carefully while you're about it ....).

Regards

John

wrote:

One word of warning on bookcase strips. If you decide that routing the
slots to be a tight fit is a good idea, then assemble the bookcases,
and then paint them, you may find that a large rubber mallet is
insufficient to persuade the strips to fit.


Did it not occur to you to feed the shelving strips into the top or bottom
and tap it into the recess till its gone all the way down the lenght of the
side? this will then bite the sides and eliminate the paint for a truly
flush finish.

....Or you could have masked the routed rebate before painting.

....Or sprayed the the MDF,Car aerosol spray stays whiter longer. :-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Pete C wrote:
On 27 Aug 2006 08:27:20 -0700, "dcbwhaley" wrote:

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.html?searchstr=sl196+router&Search=1

I'd go down to the local Sunday market (there is someone in Hanley, SoT
on Sundays with reconditioned B&Q tack. Some of it very good and most
of it very cheap) and get the cheapest largest one I could find and a
box of assorted cheap cutters.

At the very worst, you would find out exactly what you wanted next
time. There is a lot of cheap Chinese slave made stuff available that
isn't all that bad, certainly quite capable of getting you through your
first projects.

Knowing how crap cheap cutters are will inspire you to either buy more
or buy the best.

I've got the Trend and I use it a fair bit. If/when I need a 1/2"
router I'll start off with the other one.

Changing settings and worse bits or cutters all the damned time is a
real ****oire. I'd like to have a router for every job but of course
the space and nuisance value has a diminishing return.

I've also got a cheap 1000W router with 1/4 collet but it gets very
little use, it's a bit unwieldy for small stuff and doesn't take 1/2" bits.

And a few silly questions about the capability of these machines. Can
one use a plunge router to drill blind holes?

Yes, with the right bit.

They can be used to drill out locks and lock handles -a time consuming
job with generally poor rates on pricework with an hammer and chisel.

Can wide grooves be cut
by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

Yup.

But they can also be cut with a chop/pull saw if it has a setting to
stop the drop. Far quicker and a much more useful tool IME.

The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

IME the cheap ones work fine though are more likely to burn or tear
grain out if run at the wrong speed. The expensive ones give a far far
better finish.

Worth having both, use cheap bits for MDF and most cutting and an
expensive one where a really good finish is needed. Ebay is a good
source of bits.

I repeat until you use the cheap you can't appreciate the need to spend
on them. The difference in prices is worth the learning curve. For some
cuts a cheap one is adequate.

It is on features on some material that the pricey ones come into their
own. Housing joints and their like will/may be masked by the work.

On 2006-08-28 07:41:16 +0100, "Weatherlawyer" said:


Pete C wrote:
On 27 Aug 2006 08:27:20 -0700, "dcbwhaley" wrote:

I'd get one each of these:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section//sn/TRET3EK
http://www.toolstation.com/search.ht...+router&Search
=1

I'd go down to the local Sunday market (there is someone in Hanley, SoT
on Sundays with reconditioned B&Q tack. Some of it very good and most
of it very cheap) and get the cheapest largest one I could find and a
box of assorted cheap cutters.

At the very worst, you would find out exactly what you wanted next
time. There is a lot of cheap Chinese slave made stuff available that
isn't all that bad, certainly quite capable of getting you through your
first projects.

Knowing how crap cheap cutters are will inspire you to either buy more
or buy the best.

.... or give up....




Can wide grooves be cut
by making several passes with a smaller cutter?

Yup.

But they can also be cut with a chop/pull saw if it has a setting to
stop the drop. Far quicker and a much more useful tool IME.


A little difficult to do along the length of a 2m board.



The price of cutters varies enormously. A 1/4" straight cutter can
cost anything from £2 to £25. I presume that the cheaper ones are
rubbish and using them would make learning more difficult. At what
sort of price does one begin to get a decent cutter.?

IME the cheap ones work fine though are more likely to burn or tear
grain out if run at the wrong speed. The expensive ones give a far far
better finish.

Worth having both, use cheap bits for MDF and most cutting and an
expensive one where a really good finish is needed. Ebay is a good
source of bits.

I repeat until you use the cheap you can't appreciate the need to spend
on them. The difference in prices is worth the learning curve. For some
cuts a cheap one is adequate.

It's a waste of money. All that is learned by using the cheap ones
is the experience of everybody - that they are crap and don't produce
decent results.




It is on features on some material that the pricey ones come into their
own. Housing joints and their like will/may be masked by the work.

Rough edges, joints that don't fit properly......

Andy Hall wrote:


It's a waste of money. All that is learned by using the cheap ones
is the experience of everybody - that they are crap and don't produce
decent results.


I've followed a number of threads on tool selection and have learnt
that Andy Hall is very much an advocate of spending money on what he
would describe as 'quality' tools. The concept of 'Quality' does
include 'value for money' and I have yet to be convinced that the even
for a reasonable level of DIY that it is necessary to buy
'professional' grade tools. My brother is a cabinet maker and he needs
the spend money on buying tools that will last, are reliable 24/7 and
don't have any foibles - time is money to him. His tools are
wonderful to use but I do not believe that that grade of tooling is
**necessary** for the DIY'er

It is I agree everyone's own choice and very much depends on how deep
your pocket is and your attitude towards having something with a 'Name'
on it.. I have 30 years of extended DIY experience (major
refurbishment of an old cottage, furniture building, etc) and have
always used the philosophy of buying a cheap power tool first - the
irony is that despite the reasonable level of use of 3 routers from B &
Q, chop saw and SDS drill from Aldi/Lidl, etc, etc, the only thing
that hasn't been too good was a cheap (~£15) battery drill from
Aldi/Lidl, but you get what you expect at that price.

And the point is that I do now know that if I was going to go into a
major furniture building project in hardwood, I might well look at
whether the better quality routers do in fact have a smoother plunge
action and stiffer guide - but there would have to be a definite step
function in those features to justify my replacing the cheap ones I
have.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a Router Table - I find that
suprising as I use mine regularly, hence having 2 1/2inch machines. I
don't know what the commercial ones are like but I have a basic home
built one and it's one of the best things I made myself and gets used
regularly.

Rob

On 2006-08-28 09:33:07 +0100, "robgraham" said:


Andy Hall wrote:


It's a waste of money. All that is learned by using the cheap ones
is the experience of everybody - that they are crap and don't produce
decent results.


I've followed a number of threads on tool selection and have learnt
that Andy Hall is very much an advocate of spending money on what he
would describe as 'quality' tools. The concept of 'Quality' does
include 'value for money' and I have yet to be convinced that the even
for a reasonable level of DIY that it is necessary to buy
'professional' grade tools.

This depends on what you consider to be a "reasonable level of DIY".

Do you think that it should be less of a lesser quality than if a
professional does a piece of work?

In my view, it should be of a much higher standard or there is no point
in doing it.

You are absolutely right that I buy on value for money. That includes
the price, the cost of ownership over time, the ergonomics and
precision.



My brother is a cabinet maker and he needs
the spend money on buying tools that will last, are reliable 24/7 and
don't have any foibles - time is money to him. His tools are
wonderful to use but I do not believe that that grade of tooling is
**necessary** for the DIY'er

That depends on the standard that you wish to achieve, whether you are
concerned about ease of use and precision, reliability, service etc.

You are making the mistake of assuming that DIY work has a level of
expectation associated with it that is less than professional work.

I don't accept that tools for DIY should have to have foibles and
unreliability and especially not down time. Time is exceedingly
expensive.


It is I agree everyone's own choice and very much depends on how deep
your pocket is and your attitude towards having something with a 'Name'
on it.. I have 30 years of extended DIY experience (major
refurbishment of an old cottage, furniture building, etc) and have
always used the philosophy of buying a cheap power tool first

The better philosophy would be to rent one if use is occasional and
then to buy a decent one if use is frequent.


- the
irony is that despite the reasonable level of use of 3 routers from B &
Q, chop saw and SDS drill from Aldi/Lidl, etc, etc, the only thing
that hasn't been too good was a cheap (~£15) battery drill from
Aldi/Lidl, but you get what you expect at that price.

All of this depends on your level of expectation.



And the point is that I do now know that if I was going to go into a
major furniture building project in hardwood, I might well look at
whether the better quality routers do in fact have a smoother plunge
action and stiffer guide - but there would have to be a definite step
function in those features to justify my replacing the cheap ones I
have.

They do. If you were working regularly in hardwood, you would notice
the difference.




One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a Router Table - I find that
suprising as I use mine regularly, hence having 2 1/2inch machines. I
don't know what the commercial ones are like but I have a basic home
built one and it's one of the best things I made myself and gets used
regularly.

A router table is something that is very reasonable to home build.
There are good quality mechanisms and tracks that can be built into
these to provide an excellent result.

I make and use quite a lot of jigs in general and for specific
applications because it's necessary to do so for them.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:19:30 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

The motor is the main criteria.
Then comes the bearings for zero side movement(thats wobble for
you)

No, it's play.


No, it's bearing backlash...

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

Did it not occur to you to feed the shelving strips into the top or bottom
and tap it into the recess till its gone all the way down the lenght of the
side? this will then bite the sides and eliminate the paint for a truly
flush finish.

Awkward, given that both top and bottom of the bookcases had been
fitted.

...Or you could have masked the routed rebate before painting.

If I'd thought of this before painting I probably would have done. As
it is, I only thought of it later ...

John

The message .com
from "robgraham" contains these words:

The concept of 'Quality' does include 'value for money'

Not in some people's books.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.