Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
A pump for one tap? ROFL Classic!!!!

I'd be interested to know your
solution to the problem

Get the right taps in the first place. If they are wrong then put the right
taps in, not put a pump in for one tap. That is how 99.99% of humanity would
have done it.

- quite seriously.
I thought long and hard about the alternatives.

Thought? That figures. That is how you came up with a pump on one tap.
ROFLMAO

If you need more
information I'll willingly provide it.

Enough is enough. I can't handle any more my sides are splitting. ROFLMAO

Some people spend much of their life being laughed at, so I guess any
oportunity to return the favour is eagerly taken.

Its easy to criticise something without knowing the details and why it
was done. Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.


NT

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

relatively "slow" cylinder (reducing the cycling *does* reduce the fuel
used a little).

I've always wondered by how much though. The only difference I can see
is the boiler water output temp will be hgher during a brief full power
burst than it will be in modulation. Modulation will improve
efficiency, but not by much afaics. A difference of perhaps 30C out of
a flame temp of 10s of times that doesnt look like it would amount to
much, a few percent maybe.

The other big loss is that each time you cycle the boiler off, you can
end up blowing most of the primary heat exchanger's stored heat out of
the flue. With the next on cycle this will need to be reheated.
Obviously this is more of an issue with an old cast iron lump with high
thermal inertia, than a modern light weight design.

hadnt thought of that


Would 1960s be about the right guess for a cylinder that manages all of
2kW throughput?

Could be, sounds a bit low even so. Many convection circulation systems
can do better than that.

Well, least it works. The rest of it looks 60s too.


NT

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I'd be interested to know your
solution to the problem

Get the right taps in the first place. If they are wrong then put the
right taps in, not put a pump in for one tap.

As I thought. No answer to the problem. Have you done a search to find out
what styles of low pressure mixers are available?

That is how 99.99% of humanity would have done it.

Then I'm happy to be near unique.

[snip the usual boring rest]

--
*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
He lives in a world where 100% efficiency may be exceeded.

Tell that to Viessmann and all the other condensing boiler world. I'll
let you know...Viessmann do not put a pump on each tap. ROFLMAO.

You've just confirmed yet again you don't understand the meaning of
efficiency.

The Viessmann site is intended for professionals since they don't sell
direct so I suppose it's understandable if you can't comprehend their
figures. However, they're easily explained. They talk about *standard
efficiency* (note it's two words) of 107% which is far too complicated for
you to understand, but is merely used as a comparison between boilers.

They also quote the actual or gross efficiency as being between 96 to 98%
with the best condensing boilers

Efficiency is the measurment of energy input to energy output and as any
schoolboy will tell you cannot exceed 100%. Did you not go to school?

You might find this article on the Viessmann site of interest since it
explains how condensing boilers work and their efficiency.
http://www.viessmann.co.uk/articles/...-explained.php

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
He lives in a world where 100% efficiency may be exceeded.

Tell that to Viessmann and all the other condensing boiler world. I'll
let you know...Viessmann do not put a pump on each tap. ROFLMAO.

You've just confirmed yet again you don't
understand the meaning of
efficiency.

They talk about *standard
efficiency* (note it's two words) of 107%

So 107% is over 100% then. Boy is he slow.

snip inane babble

ROFLMAO

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

I'd be interested to know your
solution to the problem

Get the right taps in the first place.
If they are wrong then put the
right taps in, not put a pump in for one tap.

As I thought. No answer to the problem.

This one is barking mad. A pump on one tap. ROFLMAO.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
A pump for one tap? ROFL Classic!!!!

I'd be interested to know your
solution to the problem

Get the right taps in the first place. If they are wrong then put the
right
taps in, not put a pump in for one tap. That is how 99.99% of humanity
would
have done it.

- quite seriously.
I thought long and hard about the alternatives.

Thought? That figures. That is how you came up with a pump on one tap.
ROFLMAO

If you need more
information I'll willingly provide it.

Enough is enough. I can't handle any
more my sides are splitting. ROFLMAO

Some people spend much of their
life being laughed at,

Plowman can never see them laughing at him.

Its easy to criticise something without
knowing the details and why it
was done.

We do know why it was done. He know the difference between high and low
pressure taps.

Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You've just confirmed yet again you don't
understand the meaning of
efficiency.

They talk about *standard
efficiency* (note it's two words) of 107%

So 107% is over 100% then. Boy is he slow.

snip inane babble

Interesting you've snipped the link to the site which would explain it to
you. It's sad you don't want to learn. You'd be able to give sensible
advice if you did.

--
*The e-mail of the species is more deadly than the mail *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

Would that be a tap dance?

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You've just confirmed yet again you don't
understand the meaning of
efficiency.

They talk about *standard
efficiency* (note it's two words) of 107%

So 107% is over 100% then. Boy is he slow.

snip inane babble

Interesting

snip inane babble

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

Would that be a tap dance?

No, a pump on each tap.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

Would that be a tap dance?

Drivel only has two dances

the cha cha and the BREAK dance

--
geoff

Doctor Drivel wrote:
If it is not possible to get a good flow, then I would fit an
accumulator. You can make one yourself for a fraction of the price what
some people are selling them as packages.

Could you explaining how to go about making one? I might have to fit
one if the water main replacement doesn't do the trick for our rubbish
flow rate, and they appear to be ferociously expensive in off-the-shelf
form.

"Bolted" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
If it is not possible to get a good flow, then I would fit an
accumulator. You can make one yourself for a fraction of the price what
some people are selling them as packages.

Could you explaining how to go about making one? I might have to fit one
if the water main replacement doesn't do the trick for our rubbish flow
rate, and they appear to be ferociously expensive in off-the-shelf form.

The Reliance 200L accumulator is ~£300.
http://www.rwc.co.uk/Product.aspx?page=CAT6
No. 2.

So the controls and all can be fitted for a fraction of the price of the
Dual Stream (link below). About £400 inc controls for a 200 litre which
effectively will store about 100 litres of cold water, which is fine for a
one bathroom house. It gives the static mains pressure but lots of volume.
If the mains is cut off there is a store of cold water.

I would say minimum 1 bar mains pressure to operate and a pressure relief
valve.

You need on the mains pipe.

A double check valve on the mains
pressure reducing valve set to what Reliance recommend (maybe around 3-3.5
bar)
line strainer
Full bore maintap
Pressure relief valve set above the PRV
tundish

If using a heat bank then that will be OK. If the cold is supplying a volume
of water that will be heated (unvented cylinder), then a double check valve
on the cylinder supply.

Some Reliance accumulator models may have the diaphragms replaced too.
Look at this to give an idea of where components fit:
http://www.gah.co.uk/GAH_Dualstream/frameset.htm

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
snip inane babble

199

--
*We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
snip inane babble

199

Hilarious, hilarious. He is swanking that he can count.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

no, but I do have another odd configuration. I can see why it was done,
and if I had to redo it I'd grimace and do it the same way.


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

no, but I do have another odd configuration.

With your reasoning I can see that. You come across as a nickel and dime
tinkerer.

I can see why it was done,

You can see why a pump was put onto one tap when the flow is fine up to it?
Are you kidding? It wasn't a shower where you need the pressure, it was a
kitchen tap, with adequate flow and pressure for kitchen use up to the sink.
The man didn't have a clue what he was doing, that is why he has a pump on
one tap. Hilarious.

In article . com,
wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

no, but I do have another odd configuration. I can see why it was done,
and if I had to redo it I'd grimace and do it the same way.

I asked both dribble and his sockpuppet how they'd do it since they claim
to be experts. No answer, of course. Because the way I've done it works
perfectly and is the economical solution.

I'm amazed dribble didn't recommend changing to a combi...

--
*My designated driver drove me to drink

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:37:51 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

snip abuse

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:13:08 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm amazed dribble didn't recommend changing to a combi...

Or as he has in the past two combis and an instantaneous electric water
heater. His stupidity knows no bounds.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Because the way I've done it works
perfectly and is the economical solution.

Hilarious!!!!! Putting a pump on one taps is economical. ROFLMAO!!!!! This
group can be good belly laugh at times.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:13:08 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm

snip insulting abuse

Doctor Drivel wrote:
useful stuff

Thanks

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 14:49:40 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

If there is excellent mains flow and pressure it is quite easy to do
similar and make a directly heated heat bank. No bronze pump needed
then.

This works and provides excellent recovery but you do need a gravity (not
sealed/unvented) primary.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

no, but I do have another odd configuration.

With your reasoning I can see that. You come across as a nickel and dime
tinkerer.

what is a nickel and dime tinkerer? AFAIK I dont have any nickels or
dimes to tinker with.

That makes it worse.

I can see why it was done,

You can see why a pump was
put onto one tap when the flow is fine up to it?
Are you kidding?

are you really unable to follow a
simple set of sentences?

Perfectly, it appears you can't.

I can see
why a bodge here was done.
It was done because there just isnt space to
do it in the normal way.

He put the wrong taps in you pillock. He didn't have a clue.

It wasn't a shower where you need the pressure, it was a
kitchen tap, with adequate flow and pressure for kitchen use up to the
sink.

The man didn't have a clue what he was doing, that is why he has a pump
on
one tap. Hilarious.

If theres one thing thats obvious
its that he does have a clue and you
dont.

The amateur expert on heating and plumbing. The know-it-all who knows ****
all. The nickel and dimer. The do things the cheapo way.

If you think what the idiot did was right you are bigger idiot.

In article . com,
wrote:
You can see why a pump was put onto one tap when the flow is fine up
to it? Are you kidding?

are you really unable to follow a simple set of sentences? I can see
why a bodge here was done. It was done because there just isnt space to
do it in the normal way.

Just to clear things up. I wanted a new mixer to replace the old. The sink
itself was fine. The old mixer was a two hole fitting. Looking around I
found a replacement I liked after quite a search - most of the decent ones
tend to be one hole types these days. Nothing on the box about either high
or low pressure, but since it had 15mm tails I sort of thought it would be
low pressure as most these days use 10?mm After fitting discovered the hot
flow was poorer than before, so fitted a pump. Works a treat.

Dribble doesn't understand anything that uses electricity or how to wire
it up. Normal for a catalogue jockey.

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Just occasionally odd configuratoins have their reason.

Not in this case. Do you a pump on each tap?

no, but I do have another odd configuration.

With your reasoning I can see that. You come across as a nickel and dime
tinkerer.

what is a nickel and dime tinkerer? AFAIK I dont have any nickels or
dimes to tinker with.

That makes it worse.

I can see why it was done,

You can see why a pump was
put onto one tap when the flow is fine up to it?
Are you kidding?

are you really unable to follow a
simple set of sentences?

Perfectly, it appears you can't.

I can see
why a bodge here was done.
It was done because there just isnt space to
do it in the normal way.

He put the wrong taps in you pillock. He didn't have a clue.

It wasn't a shower where you need the pressure, it was a
kitchen tap, with adequate flow and pressure for kitchen use up to the
sink.

The man didn't have a clue what he was doing, that is why he has a pump
on
one tap. Hilarious.

If theres one thing thats obvious
its that he does have a clue and you
dont.

The amateur expert on heating and plumbing. The know-it-all who knows ****
all. The nickel and dimer. The do things the cheapo way.

If you think what the idiot did was right you are bigger idiot.

the shelf filler has postured.

NT

Doctor Drivel wrote:


The know-it-all who knows
**** all.

That ought to be your tag line Dribble.

Jovial banter aside, Drivel you ought to take some time off you know,
you are sounding ever more unhinged with every post. Too much stress is
probably not good for someone of your age.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:


The know-it-all who knows **** all.

That ought

snip tripe from a Chav

A disjointed man. Sad but true. This happens in Essex.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:

You can see why a pump was put onto one tap when the flow is fine up
to it? Are you kidding?

Just to clear things up. I wanted a
new mixer to replace the old.

A great advancement.

The sink itself was fine.

You can't beat 1957 workmanship can you.

The old mixer was a two hole fitting.
Looking around I found a replacement
I liked after quite a search

Did the search say that it was compatible with the low pressure system?

- most of the decent ones
tend to be one hole types these days.
Nothing on the box about either high
or low pressure,

The makers must be contacted to ensure compatibility.

but since it had 15mm tails I sort
of thought it would be low pressure

Though? You know what Thought thought. He followed a funeral and thought
it was a wedding, ****ed himself and thought he was sweating.

as most these days use 10?mm

They do? New on me.

After fitting discovered the hot
flow was poorer than before,

You fitted yourself? You took the time a effort away from your part time
brain surgery to do this? Wow!

so fitted a pump. Works a treat.

So fitted a pump because he ****ed up. One pump on one tap. On a line that
has adequate pressure and flow. ROFLMAO!!!!!!

John Rumm wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

The know-it-all who knows
**** all.

That ought to be your tag line Dribble.

Jovial banter aside, Drivel you ought to take some time off you know,
you are sounding ever more unhinged with every post. Too much stress is
probably not good for someone of your age.

Its odd he never thinks to go learn stuff.


NT

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:

You can see why a pump was put onto one tap when the flow is fine up
to it? Are you kidding?

Just to clear things up. I wanted a
new mixer to replace the old.

A great advancement.

It certainly was.

[snip text of no consequence]

--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote in message
ps.com...
John Rumm wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

The know-it-all who knows
**** all.

That ought to be your tag line Dribble.

Jovial banter aside, Drivel you ought to take some time off you know,
you are sounding ever more unhinged with every post. Too much stress is
probably not good for someone of your age.

Its odd he never thinks to go learn stuff.

When it comes to heating and water I have no need to - I am the teacher.
Read and take note of all I write on the subject. You will learn. Notice I
don't make issues with Andy Wade on electrical as he knows what he is on
about. Yet you, and the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) members
take issue with a heating and water expert, when it is clear all of you know
very little. In real life face to face I would dismiss you as a know-it-all
amateur if you have that tone and attitude, and would not give you the time
of day. The Internet means you get the attention of people like me, and the
unwary think that you might actually know what you are on about.

People come here for help, it is those I am concerned about, not the
uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) members - they can all ****
themselves as far as I am concerned and only worth having a laugh at. They
put one boiler in, badly, and then are experts on all thing heating -
laughable. If they counter and put forward amateur views I will put them
down strongly - and that goes for anyone, that is why I have a go at
Sirrett, who is way out of touch.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:

You can see why a pump was put onto one tap when the flow is fine up
to it? Are you kidding?

Just to clear things up. I wanted a
new mixer to replace the old.

A great advancement.

It certainly was.

Yep one tap with a pump on it. The uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated)
strikes again. ROFLMAO. You can't beat a good laugh.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Its odd he never thinks to go learn stuff.


When it comes to heating and water I have no need to - I am the teacher.

Here is one of the diffuculties. Most of us have had other crap teachers
who either didn't know their subject, or were also well out of date.

Hence when a self appointed one turns up on usenet with no track record,
no credibility, a string of tall tales but no evidence to back any of it
up, and, added to which is a social incompetant with no charm or people
skills, there is a strong possibility he is going to get treated with at
best derision.

When he then compounds the situation by posting very basic questions one
month, and then two months later claims to be an expert with years of
experiance in the subject, you can understand how any remaining
credibility is quickly erased. That he needs to bolster his ego further
with sock puppet alternate identities is the final nail in that coffin.

That he persists with all sorts of suggestions that simply defy the laws
of physics, and have no sound engineering basis (in spite of claiming to
have engineering qualifications (yet another false assertion it seems))
you can see how the only thing he ends up "teaching" is "how to be a
**** on usenet".

So "teacher" in the words of Pink FLoyd:

"We don't need no education"


Read and take note of all I write on the subject. You will learn.

Can't see how realistically. 95% of your posts are nothing but a waste
of electrons. The another 4% one can indeed learn from, but usually only
by reading the comments correcting your "oversights". The 1% of useful
stuff you post tends to get lost in the noise.

Notice I don't make issues with Andy Wade on electrical as he knows what
he is on about.

Odd that, IIRC you have had a few forays into offering decidedly dodgy
wiring advice as well. It also does not stop you insulting him either,
yet as an engineer you are not even fit to make his tea!

Yet you, and the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association
(affiliated) members take issue with a heating and water expert,

I have only seen folks taking issue with you.

People come here for help, it is those I am concerned about,

Would it not be better if you avoided replying to them then? That way
you can't mislead them with one of you half arsed ill thought out and
seriously expensive "designs".

- laughable. If they counter and put forward amateur views I will put
them down strongly

LOL, like you could.

When the going gets technical, dribble gets abusive or gets lost.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

When it comes to heating and water I have no need to - I am the teacher.

Here is

snip Chav tripe

Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
John Rumm wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

The know-it-all who knows
**** all.

That ought to be your tag line Dribble.

Its odd he never thinks to go learn stuff.

When it comes to heating and water I have no need to - I am the teacher.

A teacher that thinks he has no need to learn is a very bad teacher,
generally an incompetent.


Read and take note of all I write on the subject. You will learn.

I've learnt not to bother reading you mostly.


Notice I
don't make issues with Andy Wade on electrical as he knows what he is on
about. Yet you, and the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) members
take issue with a heating and water expert, when it is clear all of you know

very little. In real life face to face I would dismiss you as a know-it-all
amateur if you have that tone and attitude, and would not give you the time
of day.

I should be so lucky


The Internet means you get the attention of people like me, and the
unwary think that you might actually know what you are on about.

There must be a name for this, but I cant think what it is.


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

Read and take note of all I write on the subject. You will learn.

I've learnt not to bother reading you mostly.

Well stay in ignornace.

snip

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 14:49:40 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

If there is excellent mains flow and pressure it is quite easy to do
similar and make a directly heated heat bank. No bronze pump needed
then.

This works and provides excellent recovery but you do need a gravity (not
sealed/unvented) primary.

???