Opinions please.

Subject: Sealey 1/2hp 150mm bench grinder, vintage late 80s, with fine
& coarse wheels, both 19mm wide x 12mm bore. The coarse wheel appears
to have almost worn down to a bare steel core. It is only lightly used
& mainly for refreshing tools, but sometimes for rougher work on steel.

The few replacement wheels I've found on the web seem to be in the
price range GBP5 to 15, but none are the exact size. However new bench
grinders appear to be available from GBP25 up to several 100s.

What's the best option?

A. New 150mm machine: advantages are new bearings (I'd hate to be
working on a grinder when the bearings fail), and at the lower cost end
price looks much the same as 2 new wheels. Any suggestions as to
make/model/power/speed rating for reasonable quality please?

B. New 200mm machine? Q - are 200mm bench grinders significantly
better than 150mm ones? Ditto as to make etc

C. Find source for replacement wheels - anyone know of a source for
bench grinder wheels please?

TIA

long ironer wrote:
Opinions please.

Subject: Sealey 1/2hp 150mm bench grinder, vintage late 80s, with fine
& coarse wheels, both 19mm wide x 12mm bore. The coarse wheel appears
to have almost worn down to a bare steel core. It is only lightly
used & mainly for refreshing tools, but sometimes for rougher work on
steel.

The few replacement wheels I've found on the web seem to be in the
price range GBP5 to 15, but none are the exact size. However new
bench grinders appear to be available from GBP25 up to several 100s.

What's the best option?

A. New 150mm machine: advantages are new bearings (I'd hate to be
working on a grinder when the bearings fail), and at the lower cost
end price looks much the same as 2 new wheels. Any suggestions as to
make/model/power/speed rating for reasonable quality please?

B. New 200mm machine? Q - are 200mm bench grinders significantly
better than 150mm ones? Ditto as to make etc

C. Find source for replacement wheels - anyone know of a source for
bench grinder wheels please?

TIA

You could try your local Aldi first as they where selling grinder wheels
for 3.99GBP awhile back,two different sizes but cannot be sure of the size.

They still have a couple of boxes in my Aldi. Course&Fine

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:

You could try your local Aldi first as they where selling grinder
wheels for 3.99GBP awhile back,two different sizes but cannot be sure
of the size.

They still have a couple of boxes in my Aldi. Course&Fine

Just checked my two spare Aldi ones, they are 150mm x 12 bore, so it looks
like todays grinder wheels are the same size.

If you cant get them at Aldi try www.machinemart.co.uk

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:


You could try your local Aldi first as they where selling grinder
wheels for 3.99GBP awhile back,two different sizes but cannot be sure
of the size.

They still have a couple of boxes in my Aldi. Course&Fine

They are for handheld angle grinders, the diameter of the centre hole is
totally different and the disks themselves are no more than 6mm
thick...bench grinder disks are about an inch thick or thereabouts.

Phil L wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:


You could try your local Aldi first as they where selling grinder
wheels for 3.99GBP awhile back,two different sizes but cannot be sure
of the size.

They still have a couple of boxes in my Aldi. Course&Fine

They are for handheld angle grinders, the diameter of the centre hole
is totally different and the disks themselves are no more than 6mm
thick...bench grinder disks are about an inch thick or thereabouts.

Phillip they're for bench grinders that Aldi sold also awhile back I know I
bought the bench grinder along with 2 spare wheels.

p.s are angle grinder disc half inch thick. :-P
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The message .com
from "long ironer" contains these words:

The few replacement wheels I've found on the web seem to be in the
price range GBP5 to 15, but none are the exact size. However new bench
grinders appear to be available from GBP25 up to several 100s.

Aldi round here (Telford) still have stacks of unsold 6"and 8" wheels.
£3/pair.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Depends what you mean by better. Must admit i have a 200mm one.

Draper do a range of 150mm wheels i think.

Try Draper.co.uk

Kev



"long ironer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Opinions please.

Subject: Sealey 1/2hp 150mm bench grinder, vintage late 80s, with fine
& coarse wheels, both 19mm wide x 12mm bore. The coarse wheel appears
to have almost worn down to a bare steel core. It is only lightly used
& mainly for refreshing tools, but sometimes for rougher work on steel.

The few replacement wheels I've found on the web seem to be in the
price range GBP5 to 15, but none are the exact size. However new bench
grinders appear to be available from GBP25 up to several 100s.

What's the best option?

A. New 150mm machine: advantages are new bearings (I'd hate to be
working on a grinder when the bearings fail), and at the lower cost end
price looks much the same as 2 new wheels. Any suggestions as to
make/model/power/speed rating for reasonable quality please?

B. New 200mm machine? Q - are 200mm bench grinders significantly
better than 150mm ones? Ditto as to make etc

C. Find source for replacement wheels - anyone know of a source for
bench grinder wheels please?

TIA

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Phil L wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
You could try your local Aldi first as they where selling grinder
wheels for 3.99GBP awhile back,two different sizes but cannot be sure
of the size.

They still have a couple of boxes in my Aldi. Course&Fine

They are for handheld angle grinders, the diameter of the centre hole
is totally different and the disks themselves are no more than 6mm
thick...bench grinder disks are about an inch thick or thereabouts.


Phillip they're for bench grinders that Aldi sold also awhile back I know I
bought the bench grinder along with 2 spare wheels.

My spare grinding wheels (6"/150mm) from the same source a

Fine 60 grit width 3/4" (20mm) bore 3/4" (1/2" with reducer supplied);
Caorse 36 --------------------------- do. ----------------------------.

Just nipped over the road to the workshop to check!

long ironer wrote:

Opinions please.

Subject: Sealey 1/2hp 150mm bench grinder, vintage late 80s, with fine
& coarse wheels, both 19mm wide x 12mm bore. The coarse wheel appears
to have almost worn down to a bare steel core. It is only lightly used
& mainly for refreshing tools, but sometimes for rougher work on steel.

I would think that you have a wheel size of 3/4 of an inch wide with a
bore of 1/2 an inch and a diameter of 6 inches. I am guessing that the
imperial sizes are still with us on this subject.

The few replacement wheels I've found on the web seem to be in the
price range GBP5 to 15, but none are the exact size. However new bench
grinders appear to be available from GBP25 up to several 100s.

What's the best option?

If you are not experienced at fitting a grind stone wheel, then buy a
new machine. The fitting of a new wheel to an old machine requires some
skill and training. Better to let some one else do the dangerous bit. If
the wheel bursts when you are stood in front of it, it can take out your
eye sight.

A. New 150mm machine: advantages are new bearings (I'd hate to be
working on a grinder when the bearings fail), and at the lower cost end
price looks much the same as 2 new wheels. Any suggestions as to
make/model/power/speed rating for reasonable quality please?

I can't really comment about the quality, other than to say that any
manufacturer of a grindstone is not going to sell something where the
wheel will explode and take out your eyes. It is just not worth it for
them to cut corners on this.

I have a buy and spew grind stone. I have had no problems with it, but I
do not push it. If you need to use it for rough work, then I would
suggest an angle grinder, one of the cheaper ones will do you for this
work. Look on it as a consumable and throw it away when you have a
problem with it. They can be bought for about 15 pounds for a 4 inch
disk type, a little more for a larger one.

By the way, replacement wheels for an angle grinder are designed for
morons to change, where as a grindstone wheel is designed for an expert
to change.

B. New 200mm machine? Q - are 200mm bench grinders significantly
better than 150mm ones? Ditto as to make etc

I'll let others answer that, it is not my field.

C. Find source for replacement wheels - anyone know of a source for
bench grinder wheels please?

I would advise against this. See above.

Dave

On Mon, 8 May 2006 21:58:10 +0100, Guy King wrote:

Aldi round here (Telford) still have stacks of unsold 6"and 8" wheels.
£3/pair.

Hum, not sure I'd trust a grinder wheel that may have been mistreated
whilst stacked up in a shop with punters picking them over and dropping
them etc. You don't want a grinder wheel exploding(*). I think a normal
sort of wear related bearing failure would be minor in comparison...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Oh dear, sweet naivity strikes again ! I changed the the wheels on my
6" machine some years ago and never thought about it any more than
being a standard maintenance task. What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?

And what is a 'buy and spew grind stone '?

Rob

robgraham wrote:
Oh dear, sweet naivity strikes again ! I changed the the wheels on my
6" machine some years ago and never thought about it any more than
being a standard maintenance task. What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?

And what is a 'buy and spew grind stone '?

Rob


You are probably right, 99 times out of 100 you can get away with just
bolting on a new disc, however in industry it is law that anyone
changing a grinding wheel disc must first complete a 'safety in the use
of abrasive wheels course', every firm using grinding wheels requires a
list of personnel deemed competent to change discs and carry out
maintenance on the grinding machine. The main areas of concern are disc
design speed, cracked or damaged discs, blotters and spacers and
balancing. i would suspect that when buying a new bench grinder the
discs will be fitted to match the machines caracteristics, although
personally i would still check the discs for cracks caused in transit.
By far the biggest cause of 'bursting' of grinding wheels is misuse i.e
grinding the wrong material, forcing the work, incorrectly adjusted
tool rests or grinding on the wheel edge. As already mentioned a
grinding wheel can totaly ruin your weekend if something goes wrong, i
seem to remember that,depending on the machine, grit particles can
leave the wheel at 200 mph, so the correct eye protection should always
be used, never just rely on the guards fitted to the machine

The message . com
from "robgraham" contains these words:

Oh dear, sweet naivity strikes again ! I changed the the wheels on my
6" machine some years ago and never thought about it any more than
being a standard maintenance task. What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?

Well, this is rapidly turning into uk.get-a-little-man-in, isn't it.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

robgraham wrote:
Oh dear, sweet naivity strikes again ! I changed the the wheels on my
6" machine some years ago and never thought about it any more than
being a standard maintenance task. What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?

And what is a 'buy and spew grind stone '?

First, a grind stone is on a mission to re-model your face if not
installed correctly. As Andrew mentions below, it is a skilled job to
mount a new stone.

There have been threads about doing your own gas work in the past and I
agree, that if you feel competent, then go ahead and do it.
When it comes to mounting a new wheel on a grind stone, I would favour a
lot of caution, unless you have had some training of how to do it and
the dangers that can come out of this simple exercise.
Over tighten the nut that holds the wheel to the shaft and you can
expect an exploding wheel pretty soon and it will not leave a pretty
face either.

I have been in engineering for well over 40 years and I remember seeing
a grind stone wheel bursts and it went clean through a brick wall. On
the gory side, I have a cousin that saw a lathe operator picked up and
dashed to death by the lathe he made his money on. You takes your chances.

Second. Buy and spew is an acronyms for a well known DIY store where the
folk that work there wear red or orange pinnies (dependant on the size
of the store).
They sell cheap tools for the DIYer. That is why I stated that if the
grind stone wants a new wheel, then the best bet is to buy one of
theirs. At least then, you can get compensation from them if anything
goes wrong from a badly fitted wheel. (I have one of their cheap ones
and it is fine for everyday use)

Dave

Guy King wrote:

The message . com
from "robgraham" contains these words:


Oh dear, sweet naivity strikes again ! I changed the the wheels on my
6" machine some years ago and never thought about it any more than
being a standard maintenance task. What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?


Well, this is rapidly turning into uk.get-a-little-man-in, isn't it.

Not really. If folk that change a grind stone wheel are aware of the
dangers, then just like working with gas, with guide lines, it is made
that much easier and safer.

Dave

Dave wrote:
robgraham wrote:
First, a grind stone is on a mission to re-model your face if not
installed correctly.

The rests and guards should be adjusted properly to minimise danger.

When it comes to mounting a new wheel on a grind stone, I would favour a
lot of caution, unless you have had some training of how to do it and
the dangers that can come out of this simple exercise.

The grinding wheels I bought ad Aldi have quite good instructions in
the packet, including one to run up the machine for some time after
fitting a new wheel, before using it.


Over tighten the nut that holds the wheel to the shaft and you can
expect an exploding wheel pretty soon and it will not leave a pretty
face either.

"Use protection". "Adjust the machine". "Use grinder properly".


I have been in engineering for well over 40 years and I remember seeing
a grind stone wheel bursts and it went clean through a brick wall.

I bet it wasn't a 200W 6" one from Aldi (or similar).


Second. Buy and spew is an acronyms for a well known DIY store where the
folk that work there wear red or orange pinnies (dependant on the size
of the store).
They sell cheap tools for the DIYer. That is why I stated that if the
grind stone wants a new wheel, then the best bet is to buy one of
theirs. At least then, you can get compensation from them if anything
goes wrong from a badly fitted wheel.

That's too late. One of my pet gripes is that anyone at all can buy
power tools of all description without even being advised how to
use them, and the dangers. If B&Q or whoever put on an evening hour
of tuition, even for the price of a pint, it would be *much better*.

Thanks for all the replies.


Dave wrote:
robgraham wrote:
Oh dear, sweet naivity strikes again ! I changed the the wheels on my
6" machine some years ago and never thought about it any more than
being a standard maintenance task. What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?

And what is a 'buy and spew grind stone '?

First, a grind stone is on a mission to re-model your face if not
installed correctly.

This is why I posted - I'm extremely wary of grindstones. Any fellow
veterans of late BTH/AEI/early GEC Rugby Mill Road days around will
remember a former machinist on the site with a large inch deep dent in
his forehead.

I'm not sure about wonky bearings on grinders either. My guess is
there's a high chance of a shattered wheel once a dud bearing develops.



As Andrew mentions below, it is a skilled job to
mount a new stone.

To sum up,

1. No opinions emerged on relevant merits of 150mm dia v 200mm grinders

2. No opinions on relative merits of various makes and powers

3. Care is needed fitting a new wheel. I recall seeing a video on tool
sharpening 10-15 years ago by Jim Kingshott in which he went into
commissioning a new bench grinder. Even with a new one out of the box
he made a point that the wheels should be removed, suspended and tapped
to make sure each one gives a clear ring. I can recall hearing the
same thing at various oither times since Mill Rd days.

4. As the bearings appear OK & considering Jim Kingshott's advice I
decided to chance it and replace the wheels.

Pursuing that it turns out there's a vast number of different, but
almost the same, grinding wheel sizes. plenty of 20mm but no 19mm;
ditto 12.7mm bores but not 12mm etc; none the right size at the usual
internet tool depots. Some have plastic bore adapters. With my
wariness of grinders I'm not going to chance a wheel unless it is
exactly the right fit.

I rang Sealey who were much more helpful than their web site leads you
to expect. It turns out that there's plenty of Sealey agents around,
and you have to order the wheels from them @ around GBP10 each inc VAT.


Thanx again

Just to add a word of caution from a different perspective on angle
grinders - my father killed himself using one.

This was not an exploding wheel or anything of the likes but a
circumstance that he should have foreseen (at 79 perhaps that was not
unreasonable). We worked it out that he wanted to cut a piece of 6mm
steel plate; he had clamped it to his workbench and had set up a guide
for the angle grinder. It seemed he was making several passes over the
steel and all went OK until the cutting wheel broke through and the
sparks of cut metal went straight downwards. Unfortunately this was
also his wood working bench with shavings and sawdust, and to compound
it he had a plastic gallon container of white spirit we think under the
bench at the point he was working - and it was a garage with a pull
down door.

The lesson of course is not to mix wood work and metal work and to keep
flammable fluids well away from both.

Rob

Chris Bacon wrote:
Dave wrote:

robgraham wrote:
First, a grind stone is on a mission to re-model your face if not
installed correctly.


The rests and guards should be adjusted properly to minimise danger.

When it comes to mounting a new wheel on a grind stone, I would favour
a lot of caution, unless you have had some training of how to do it
and the dangers that can come out of this simple exercise.


The grinding wheels I bought ad Aldi have quite good instructions in
the packet, including one to run up the machine for some time after
fitting a new wheel, before using it.

That is good news. It looks as if things have improved over the years. I
have not had to replace a wheel yet and I will be 60 next month. But I
am aware of the dangers.

snip

I have been in engineering for well over 40 years and I remember
seeing a grind stone wheel bursts and it went clean through a brick wall.


I bet it wasn't a 200W 6" one from Aldi (or similar).

LOL no :-)

It was a big bugger though :-)

I remember my training as an apprentice on a centre grinder. I was
taught to back off the grind stone three turns of the wheel before
stopping the machine to take a measurement. Trouble was, I didn't do
that once and when I went to advance the stone 3 turns forwards, to
re-grind, I got lots of stone in my face. It taught me a lesson for life.

Second. Buy and spew is an acronyms for a well known DIY store where
the folk that work there wear red or orange pinnies (dependant on the
size of the store).
They sell cheap tools for the DIYer. That is why I stated that if the
grind stone wants a new wheel, then the best bet is to buy one of
theirs. At least then, you can get compensation from them if anything
goes wrong from a badly fitted wheel.


That's too late. One of my pet gripes is that anyone at all can buy
power tools of all description without even being advised how to
use them, and the dangers.

Sadly, yes. But if they sold a grind stone that had a badly balanced
wheel, at least you would know that they would be held responsible for it.

If B&Q or whoever put on an evening hour
of tuition, even for the price of a pint, it would be *much better*.

That would be an excellent idea. I wonder if they would take it up?

Dave

long ironer wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.


Dave wrote:

robgraham wrote:

Oh dear, sweet naivity strikes again ! I changed the the wheels on my
6" machine some years ago and never thought about it any more than
being a standard maintenance task. What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?

And what is a 'buy and spew grind stone '?

First, a grind stone is on a mission to re-model your face if not
installed correctly.


This is why I posted - I'm extremely wary of grindstones. Any fellow
veterans of late BTH/AEI/early GEC Rugby Mill Road days around will
remember a former machinist on the site with a large inch deep dent in
his forehead.

I'm not sure about wonky bearings on grinders either. My guess is
there's a high chance of a shattered wheel once a dud bearing develops.



As Andrew mentions below, it is a skilled job to

mount a new stone.


To sum up,

1. No opinions emerged on relevant merits of 150mm dia v 200mm grinders

At that size, I doubt that it matters. 150mm is about 6 inch, 200 mm is
about 8 inch. if you were to go from 150 mm to 300 mm then you might
like to consider water cooling and the speed that it rotates.

2. No opinions on relative merits of various makes and powers

As far as makes go, it doesn't make that much difference if they all use
the same wheel :-)
See below.

3. Care is needed fitting a new wheel. I recall seeing a video on tool
sharpening 10-15 years ago by Jim Kingshott in which he went into
commissioning a new bench grinder. Even with a new one out of the box
he made a point that the wheels should be removed, suspended and tapped
to make sure each one gives a clear ring. I can recall hearing the
same thing at various oither times since Mill Rd days.

Glad you have seen that. It was what I was banging on about :-)

4. As the bearings appear OK & considering Jim Kingshott's advice I
decided to chance it and replace the wheels.

Once you are aware of the dangers, then the dangers are pushed into the
background.

Pursuing that it turns out there's a vast number of different, but
almost the same, grinding wheel sizes. plenty of 20mm but no 19mm;
ditto 12.7mm bores but not 12mm etc; none the right size at the usual
internet tool depots. Some have plastic bore adapters. With my
wariness of grinders I'm not going to chance a wheel unless it is
exactly the right fit.

Welcome to the world of metric and imperial measures :-)

I rang Sealey who were much more helpful than their web site leads you
to expect. It turns out that there's plenty of Sealey agents around,
and you have to order the wheels from them @ around GBP10 each inc VAT.

Thanks, I'll take a look at their web site.

Dave

The message
from Chris Bacon contains these words:

That's too late. One of my pet gripes is that anyone at all can buy
power tools of all description without even being advised how to
use them, and the dangers. If B&Q or whoever put on an evening hour
of tuition, even for the price of a pint, it would be *much better*.

The one in Wednesbury does, I think.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The message .com
from "long ironer" contains these words:

1. No opinions emerged on relevant merits of 150mm dia v 200mm grinders

Get the 200. Much easier to use.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On 9 May 2006 00:15:46 -0700, "robgraham"
wrote:

What skill is required of an
'expert' and what should I have attempted to do ?

There's an entire act of parliament dedicated to this topic (search for
"abrasive wheel") It's a legal requirement that a poster-sized copy of
the relevant bits of this act be displayed anywhere commercial where
there's a grinding wheel in use.

These days, for a modern 6" wheel, you just slam the things on. But back
in the olden days, when wheels were huge, egg-shaped, unbalanced and the
holes were cockeyed, then there really was a lot of serious work to
mounting and truing a wheel. And if you got it wrong it had a fair shot
at trying to kill you.