I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen since
it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there easily - but
couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these push-fit things -
can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Cheers
Dan.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 16:07:35 GMT, "Dan delaMare-Lyon"
wrote:

I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen since
it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there easily - but
couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these push-fit things -
can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Cheers
Dan.


Yes.


--

..andy

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:

I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen
since it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there
easily - but couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these
push-fit things - can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Cheers
Dan.

In principle, yes. How old is the feed, and what size pipe is it? I'm not
sure that you can get push-fit fittings for imperial pipe. If it's 15mm or
22mm copper, fine. Cut it with a proper pipe cutter which has a cutting
wheel, and then clean up the end inch or so with wire wool. The cutter will
have turned the end in slightly, so there's no need to de-burr. I would use
copper push-fit in metal pipe.

In the unlikely event that it's a stainless steel pipe - fitted in the
copper shortage in the 1960's or whenever - you won't be able to use
pushfit - 'cos it won't grip properly.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but not regularly monitored.

"Dan delaMare-Lyon" wrote in
:

I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen
since it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there
easily - but couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these
push-fit things - can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Cheers
Dan.

I'd rather use a compression; they don't fail as disastrously if they do
fail

mike

On 2 Apr 2006 18:16:34 GMT, mike wrote:

"Dan delaMare-Lyon" wrote in
:

I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen
since it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there
easily - but couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these
push-fit things - can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Cheers
Dan.

I'd rather use a compression; they don't fail as disastrously if they do
fail

mike


They can.....


In an awkward position it is perfectly possible to "tighten one up",
but in fact it really isn't and the olive has not cramped onto the
pipe properly. This is especially true if the pipe is old and has
naturally hardened. Under pressure the fitting can pop off......

I've seen it happen.


--

..andy

On 2 Apr 2006 18:16:34 GMT someone who may be mike
wrote this:-

I'd rather use a compression; they don't fail as disastrously if they do
fail

Some years ago I had just sat down to Christmas dinner with other
members of the family (not in my house BTW) and the starter was just
about to be put on the table.

There was a sudden sound of running water, which I thought was a pan
being emptied in the kitchen. However, I was soon asked to help and
in the main bathroom I was able to observe a waterfall coming down
from the loft. Feeling a bit like a sumbmariner I climbed up the
ladder as the water came down.

The cause of the waterfall was a failed joint which had been
installed a day or two before. Because of the fashion for mains
pressure water systems a lot of water had ****ed out of this joint
in a short period. The plumber had used a push-fit fitting, despite
being paid to do the job properly.

The replacement compression fitting went on with the aid of much
swearing about plumbers and is still working happily five years or
so later.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:

I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen
since it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there
easily - but couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these
push-fit things - can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

In principle, yes. How old is the feed, and what size pipe is it? I'm not
sure that you can get push-fit fittings for imperial pipe. If it's 15mm or
22mm copper, fine. Cut it with a proper pipe cutter which has a cutting
wheel, and then clean up the end inch or so with wire wool. The cutter
will have turned the end in slightly, so there's no need to de-burr. I
would use copper push-fit in metal pipe.

In the unlikely event that it's a stainless steel pipe - fitted in the
copper shortage in the 1960's or whenever - you won't be able to use
pushfit - 'cos it won't grip properly.

Nope in the clear on this one - she's a 15mm copper

Cheers
dan.

On 2 Apr 2006 12:05:30 -0700, "Tournifreak"
wrote:


David Hansen wrote:
On 2 Apr 2006 18:16:34 GMT someone who may be mike
wrote this:-

I'd rather use a compression; they don't fail as disastrously if they do
fail

Some years ago I had just sat down to Christmas dinner with other
members of the family (not in my house BTW) and the starter was just
about to be put on the table.

There was a sudden sound of running water, which I thought was a pan
being emptied in the kitchen. However, I was soon asked to help and
in the main bathroom I was able to observe a waterfall coming down
from the loft. Feeling a bit like a sumbmariner I climbed up the
ladder as the water came down.

The cause of the waterfall was a failed joint which had been
installed a day or two before. Because of the fashion for mains
pressure water systems a lot of water had ****ed out of this joint
in a short period. The plumber had used a push-fit fitting, despite
being paid to do the job properly.

I would say that's the fault of the plumber rather than the fitting.
I'd say it's just as easy (or difficult!) to mess up a solder joint,
compression joint, or push fit joint. All have their potential
pitfalls. (I may come back here in a year or two and eat humble pie
when all my speedfit fittings fall apart though... :-)

Jon.


As long as you didn't cut the tube with a hacksaw, this is very
unlikely......


--

..andy

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 20:06:52 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen since
it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there easily - but
couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these push-fit things -
can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Possibly an even stupider question, but this is a water pipe you're
wanting to blank off, and not gas?

Owain

I've heard of energy conservation and recycling, but gas feeds under
the bath?


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote in
:


I've heard of energy conservation and recycling, but gas feeds under
the bath?

Could make sense for vegetarians

mike

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:31:17 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 20:06:52 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen since
it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there easily - but
couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these push-fit things -
can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Possibly an even stupider question, but this is a water pipe you're
wanting to blank off, and not gas?

Owain

I've heard of energy conservation and recycling, but gas feeds under
the bath?

It's now dead pipe work, but until a few years ago that was the situation
in my house and all the others in the terrace.

Originally:
The iron pipe emerged from under the floor under the bath and then
was chased into the wall around the side of the bath. It's
purpose was to supply a large instantaneous gas water heater as an
alternative to the solid fuel back-boiler and direct gravity heating of
the HW tank (cf. cylinder).

Until about 5 years ago my neighbour still had the complete asbestos flue
mounted outside.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 17:23:17 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:

I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen
since it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there
easily - but couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these
push-fit things - can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Cheers
Dan.

In principle, yes. How old is the feed, and what size pipe is it? I'm not
sure that you can get push-fit fittings for imperial pipe. If it's 15mm or
22mm copper, fine. Cut it with a proper pipe cutter which has a cutting
wheel, and then clean up the end inch or so with wire wool. The cutter will
have turned the end in slightly, so there's no need to de-burr. I would use
copper push-fit in metal pipe.

In the unlikely event that it's a stainless steel pipe - fitted in the
copper shortage in the 1960's or whenever - you won't be able to use
pushfit - 'cos it won't grip properly.

Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.
The 15mm push fits will go onto the 1/2" they are a little tight, you
might not remove the fitting after unless it is the sort you unscrew.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Using wire wool on pipe for a pushfit fitting is asking for trouble. This will lead to a leak as you are scoring the smooth surface of the pipe which is what the sealing ring seals against????

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:


Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.

???

--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but not regularly monitored.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:17:24 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:


Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.

???

It's something to watch out for when you think the pipework is around
35-40 years old. I might come across it a few times a year and I'm dealing
with pipes at least 2 days a week.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:17:24 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:


Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.

???

It's something to watch out for when you think the pipework is around
35-40 years old. I might come across it a few times a year and I'm
dealing with pipes at least 2 days a week.

Well I suppose that I may be atypical - but I've had it in both houses which
I've owned, and in my father-in-law's house - all built in the 1960's. So I
suspect that there's still a lot of it about even if you don't personally
encounter it very often.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but not regularly monitored.

Ed Sirett wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
Ed Sirett wrote:

Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.

It's something to watch out for when you think the pipework is around
35-40 years old. I might come across it a few times a year and I'm dealing
with pipes at least 2 days a week.

It's quite easily identified tho.

IME imperial pipes have big chunky hex fittings, rather than the neater
more modern compression fittings (e.g the ones with the 'ears')

Cheers

Paul.

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On 2 Apr 2006 18:16:34 GMT, mike wrote:

"Dan delaMare-Lyon" wrote in
:

I need to cap off an old feed under the bath down into the kitchen
since it's re-model. I can get my hand and a pipe cutter in there
easily - but couldn't get a gas torch anywhere in there - so - these
push-fit things - can I just deburr and push a push-fit stop end on?

Cheers
Dan.

I'd rather use a compression; they don't fail as disastrously if they do
fail

mike


They can.....


In an awkward position it is perfectly possible to "tighten one up",
but in fact it really isn't and the olive has not cramped onto the
pipe properly. This is especially true if the pipe is old and has
naturally hardened. Under pressure the fitting can pop off......

I've seen it happen.

Matt, you just made that up.

"Tournifreak" wrote in message
ups.com...

David Hansen wrote:
On 2 Apr 2006 18:16:34 GMT someone who may be mike
wrote this:-

I'd rather use a compression; they don't fail as disastrously if they do
fail

Some years ago I had just sat down to Christmas dinner with other
members of the family (not in my house BTW) and the starter was just
about to be put on the table.

There was a sudden sound of running water, which I thought was a pan
being emptied in the kitchen. However, I was soon asked to help and
in the main bathroom I was able to observe a waterfall coming down
from the loft. Feeling a bit like a sumbmariner I climbed up the
ladder as the water came down.

The cause of the waterfall was a failed joint which had been
installed a day or two before. Because of the fashion for mains
pressure water systems a lot of water had ****ed out of this joint
in a short period. The plumber had used a push-fit fitting, despite
being paid to do the job properly.

I would say that's the fault of the plumber rather than the fitting.

I would say it was the fitting.

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On 2 Apr 2006 12:05:30 -0700, "Tournifreak"
wrote:


David Hansen wrote:
On 2 Apr 2006 18:16:34 GMT someone who may be mike
wrote this:-

I'd rather use a compression; they don't fail as disastrously if they
do
fail

Some years ago I had just sat down to Christmas dinner with other
members of the family (not in my house BTW) and the starter was just
about to be put on the table.

There was a sudden sound of running water, which I thought was a pan
being emptied in the kitchen. However, I was soon asked to help and
in the main bathroom I was able to observe a waterfall coming down
from the loft. Feeling a bit like a sumbmariner I climbed up the
ladder as the water came down.

The cause of the waterfall was a failed joint which had been
installed a day or two before. Because of the fashion for mains
pressure water systems a lot of water had ****ed out of this joint
in a short period. The plumber had used a push-fit fitting, despite
being paid to do the job properly.

I would say that's the fault of the plumber rather than the fitting.
I'd say it's just as easy (or difficult!) to mess up a solder joint,
compression joint, or push fit joint. All have their potential
pitfalls. (I may come back here in a year or two and eat humble pie
when all my speedfit fittings fall apart though... :-)

Jon.


As long as you didn't cut the tube with a hacksaw, this is very
unlikely......

Matt, he can cut the pipe with a hacksaw as long as he trims off properly.
It is clear you don't know this sort of thing.

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:17:24 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:


Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.

???

It's something to watch out for when you think the pipework is around
35-40 years old. I might come across it a few times a year and I'm
dealing with pipes at least 2 days a week.

Well I suppose that I may be atypical - but I've had it in both houses
which I've owned, and in my father-in-law's house - all built in the
1960's. So I suspect that there's still a lot of it about even if you
don't personally encounter it very often.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______

from memory ... which might be fallible ... it was about 1969~1970 ish that
the change over from English measurements to metric measurements happened in
copper tubing.
[pendants note: there ain't any such thing as 'Imperial' linear
measurements! -Albert restricted his messing about to volumetric/weight
thingies equating the gallon to ten pounds et.seq. throughout the Empire.
the linear measurements of inch, foot, yards, et.al remained unchanged]

/rant

--

Brian

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Brian Sharrock wrote:


from memory ... which might be fallible ... it was about 1969~1970
ish that the change over from English measurements to metric
measurements happened in copper tubing.

I think it was probably later than that. I installed central heating in my
previous house in 1969 using 1/2" and 3/4" copper pipe - and there was not
even a hint of metric sizes then as far as I can remember.

Towards the end of the period in which inch sizes were used, there were
several revisions to the standard - with progressively smaller wall
thicknesses - so you had to make sure you had the right bending spring - and
the thinner walled stuff was more difficult to bend without kinking.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but not regularly monitored.

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 00:29:06 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:17:24 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:


Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.

???

It's something to watch out for when you think the pipework is around
35-40 years old. I might come across it a few times a year and I'm
dealing with pipes at least 2 days a week.

Well I suppose that I may be atypical - but I've had it in both houses which
I've owned, and in my father-in-law's house - all built in the 1960's. So I
suspect that there's still a lot of it about even if you don't personally
encounter it very often.

There is very little late 1960's early 1970s new build around here.
I therefore probably only encounter it in places that had substantial work
done in that period.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Brian Sharrock wrote:


from memory ... which might be fallible ... it was about 1969~1970
ish that the change over from English measurements to metric
measurements happened in copper tubing.

I think it was probably later than that. I installed central heating in my
previous house in 1969 using 1/2" and 3/4" copper pipe

1971.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:16:19 -0700, zymurgy wrote:


Ed Sirett wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
Ed Sirett wrote:

Imperial copper tube is fairly rare IME.

It's something to watch out for when you think the pipework is around
35-40 years old. I might come across it a few times a year and I'm dealing
with pipes at least 2 days a week.

It's quite easily identified tho.

IME imperial pipes have big chunky hex fittings, rather than the neater
more modern compression fittings (e.g the ones with the 'ears')

I've found so many different styles of compression fittings in metric I
can't identify pipe by what's used on it. The bottom line is the size:
1/2" is very slightly bigger than 15mm but as near as dammit, whereas is
smaller than 22mm by enough to make a pushfit unreliable. For compression
the correct thing is to use a 3/4" olive (available from BES and real
plumbers merchants) but I've got away with cranking up a 22mm olive
really tight. Copper may be a better bet for this sort of abuse than brass
because it's softer.