I have just been contacted by Toucan ISP. It's 4 quid cheaper than AOL
for the same "unlimited" service.

The closer didn't know if their service supported Linux but did invite
me to check and see that an ISP review would give them 5 stars.

I did manage to find 1 favourable review. Some of the others were
scathing. All of the others I mean and one pointed out they were a
sister company to Tiscali. The one whose personel throw you in the
rubbish.

So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux and beats
AOL's price? Anyone here care to recommend one?

In article .com,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux and beats
AOL's price? Anyone here care to recommend one?

Haven't checked on prices but Pipex is OS independant. Had no trouble
setting things up with RISC OS. It's also been very reliable.

--
*For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article .com,
Weatherlawyer wrote:

So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux and beats
AOL's price? Anyone here care to recommend one?


Haven't checked on prices but Pipex is OS independant. Had no trouble
setting things up with RISC OS. It's also been very reliable.

Hard to think of much that isn't better than AOL really...

Using a router on broadband means that pretty much any ISP is OS
agnostic even if they say otherwise.

Have a look at Metronet or Plusnet



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux and beats
AOL's price? Anyone here care to recommend one?

Haven't checked on prices but Pipex is OS independant. Had no trouble
setting things up with RISC OS. It's also been very reliable.

I find Pipex extremely reliable, but fairly expensive compared to the likes
of Tiscali. On the other hand, I've heard that Tiscali are crap so for the
sake of a few quid a month I'm staying with Pipex.

Si

I find Pipex extremely reliable, but fairly expensive compared to the likes
of Tiscali. On the other hand, I've heard that Tiscali are crap so for the
sake of a few quid a month I'm staying with Pipex.

Same here (Pipex, despite what it says in my sig) - if you feel the
urge to give someone a free month for a referral, you know where to
ask ! (the group, not me specifically)

As for supporting other OSs - as someone else said, I can see no
reason why any OS can`t be supported as long as you can go via a
router (and i`d make that a *strong* recommendation too)

--
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Colin Wilson wrote:

As for supporting other OSs - as someone else said, I can see no
reason why any OS can`t be supported as long as you can go via a
router (and i`d make that a *strong* recommendation too)

Yup, seconded - never use USB ADSL modems - especially on Windows.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Mungo two sheds Toadfoot wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
Weatherlawyer wrote:

So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux and beats
AOL's price? Anyone here care to recommend one?

I am very happy with AOL but have some gripes:

1. They do not support anything but Windows -which I am a fan of even
though I want to change. It's a freedom of choice thing. It was years
before I got a battery drill but I can't recall how I managed without
one. I just didn't want to change. Who knows what I am missing? I may
find myself saving decades not running security scans and finding
patches all the time.

2. They no longer support usenet. Not that I could stand their format
when they did.

3. You can only use one computer on their router. No big deal a cable
to my other one would be good enough for me to work two through one.
And if I ws serious I could buy a different router.

4. I'm getting small glitches waiting for my hook up after AOL changed
their network software -at which time they doubled my bandwidth and
lowered the price a few bob.

I would without hestiation recomment AOL to newbies and lamers and I
consider them a very good ISP for people in my position: Not that much
of a geek but not disinterested in alternatives.

Haven't checked on prices but Pipex is OS independant. Had no trouble
setting things up with RISC OS. It's also been very reliable.

What are they like about Usenet?

I find Pipex extremely reliable, but fairly expensive compared to the likes
of Tiscali. On the other hand, I've heard that Tiscali are crap so for the
sake of a few quid a month I'm staying with Pipex.

That's the Tiscali saviour. They are one of the most popular according
to ISP Review but the site blasts them. If they don't change their
management v v soon they will have estranged a substantial portion of
Britain and France.

Are they related to Wanadoo?

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:09:15 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Colin Wilson wrote:

As for supporting other OSs - as someone else said, I can see no
reason why any OS can`t be supported as long as you can go via a
router (and i`d make that a *strong* recommendation too)

Yup, seconded - never use USB ADSL modems - especially on Windows.

Why not....?

A good way to improve security is remove as much MS software and
functionality as you can

cheers,
Pete.

Pete C wrote:

Yup, seconded - never use USB ADSL modems - especially on Windows.


Why not....?

A few reasons spring to mind:

Firstly because it means that the OS and any loaded firewalls etc become
your first line of defence against attack. You are also at risk should
you inadvertently let anything onto the computer that disables the
software firewall etc - things can go pear shaped very quickly. It is
harder for anything on the PC to knobble an external firewall. Also the
TCP/IP stack that is facing the net is the routers and not the Microsoft
one.

From a security POV you also only have a single line of defence with a
USB moden rather than defence in depth - i.e. hardware firewall in
router, inability of direct addressing of the internal hosts due to NAT
in the router, then any firewalls etc running on the PC.

Performance can take a hit - not all USB modems will do more than
1Mb/sec. Of those that do you can get a fair size CPU loading from the
modem.

Stability: some systems have slightly flaky USB which can get stressed
by lots of high speed USB modem traffic. You also introduce yet another
set of kernel mode drives to support the hardware - they are unlikely to
be as well tested/reliable as the basic network card ones you would be
using to talk to a router.

Flexibility: connection sharing between more than one PC is much simpler
using a router.

VPN endpoint capability - a suitable router makes allowing external
secure access to your system easy should you need it without additional
software or the need to run a Windows Server OS. (WinXP / 2K can only
create the client end of a VPN by default)

Egress filtering - it is easy to restrict outgoing connections as well
as incoming on a router - you need add on software for that on Windows.

A good way to improve security is remove as much MS software and
functionality as you can

Yup. By rights it ought not be turned on in the first place. That is a
lesson they seem to be learning slowly.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article .com,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
I would without hestiation recomment AOL to newbies and lamers and I
consider them a very good ISP for people in my position: Not that much
of a geek but not disinterested in alternatives.

Haven't checked on prices but Pipex is OS independant. Had no trouble
setting things up with RISC OS. It's also been very reliable.

What are they like about Usenet?

They are one of the main providers to others. Not found any newsgroup I
want they don't carry - including all the RISC OS ones.

Oh - I've got effectively four computers (two RPCs with PC cards) - and
they can all operate simultaneously online if needed.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 3 Feb 2006 10:17:05 -0800, "Weatherlawyer" wrote:


So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux

I was unaware that any ISP could decide which operating system you computer
could use - how do they do this?


Geo

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 16:26:47 GMT, Geo
wrote:

On 3 Feb 2006 10:17:05 -0800, "Weatherlawyer" wrote:


So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux

I was unaware that any ISP could decide which operating system you computer
could use - how do they do this?


Geo

They don't/ They just mean that their Support give you the bums rush
if you want help.

many ISP's have no support for 95, 98 and ME now, it's not worth
*training^ the staff to handle the queries. Translation. The phone
droids don't have a script to read for these.

Geo wrote:

I was unaware that any ISP could decide which operating system you computer
could use - how do they do this?

A few ways of sorts:

By bundling access hardware that only comes with Windows and sometimes
Mac drivers.

By only offering tech support on platforms they support.

And/Or by doing something like AOL used to do where you had to run their
bespoke client software to even connect (they used to establish a VPN
connection over the top of the basic ADSL PPPoA one - again the client
software was Windows and possibly mac specific)

Most of these are circumventable with your own hardware if you can cope
without tech support.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Geo" wrote in message
...
So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux

I was unaware that any ISP could decide which operating system you
computer
could use - how do they do this?

AOL is proprietary software that you need to install to get online with
them. Their software dials up, not Windows DUN. They even install some
sort of virtual network driver for the broadband. They have software for
Windows and Mac, not for Linux. AFAIK this is still the case and there is
therefore no way you can get online with them unless you install their
crappy software.

As if it were needed - yet another reason to never ever use such a
diabolical service!




a

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 00:09:10 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:


A few reasons spring to mind:

Firstly because it means that the OS and any loaded firewalls etc become
your first line of defence against attack. You are also at risk should
you inadvertently let anything onto the computer that disables the
software firewall etc - things can go pear shaped very quickly. It is
harder for anything on the PC to knobble an external firewall. Also the
TCP/IP stack that is facing the net is the routers and not the Microsoft
one.

From a security POV you also only have a single line of defence with a
USB moden rather than defence in depth - i.e. hardware firewall in
router, inability of direct addressing of the internal hosts due to NAT
in the router, then any firewalls etc running on the PC.

Performance can take a hit - not all USB modems will do more than
1Mb/sec. Of those that do you can get a fair size CPU loading from the
modem.

Stability: some systems have slightly flaky USB which can get stressed
by lots of high speed USB modem traffic. You also introduce yet another
set of kernel mode drives to support the hardware - they are unlikely to
be as well tested/reliable as the basic network card ones you would be
using to talk to a router.

Flexibility: connection sharing between more than one PC is much simpler
using a router.

VPN endpoint capability - a suitable router makes allowing external
secure access to your system easy should you need it without additional
software or the need to run a Windows Server OS. (WinXP / 2K can only
create the client end of a VPN by default)

Egress filtering - it is easy to restrict outgoing connections as well
as incoming on a router - you need add on software for that on Windows.

Thanks, some very good points though I think I'll stick with my USB
modem and software firewall for now. In due course I'll get an all in
one modem/firewall/wireless AP.

A good way to improve security is remove as much MS software and
functionality as you can

Yup. By rights it ought not be turned on in the first place. That is a
lesson they seem to be learning slowly.

The rootkits are a bit worrying, just downloaded and tried out a
rootkit scanner:

http://www.sysinternals.com/utilities/rootkitrevealer.html

cheers,
Pete.

In article ,
Geo wrote:
I was unaware that any ISP could decide which operating system you
computer could use - how do they do this?

Easy. When you try to set up the connection it requires IE or similar.

--
*Even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn now and again *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Huge writes:
I should say that Demon Internet were *very* helpful in my dialup days
when I had problems with the Solaris ppp implementation, even though they
do not 'support' Unix. YMMV.

Well, they did start out with several Solaris systems, each
with loads of serial ports running PPP which you dialled in
to.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Pete C wrote:

Thanks, some very good points though I think I'll stick with my USB
modem and software firewall for now. In due course I'll get an all in
one modem/firewall/wireless AP.

Unless you need wireless, then that is best turned off...

The rootkits are a bit worrying, just downloaded and tried out a
rootkit scanner:

http://www.sysinternals.com/utilities/rootkitrevealer.html

Yes very good site - they have some really useful utilities for free
download.

There is some frightening stuff out there - including root kits that
write themselves to spare regions of flash on your MB or video card, so
that they can be present and up to mischief right from power on before
you get a chance to load *anything*

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , al
writes
"Geo" wrote in message
.. .
So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux

I was unaware that any ISP could decide which operating system you
computer
could use - how do they do this?

AOL is proprietary software that you need to install to get online with
them. Their software dials up, not Windows DUN. They even install some
sort of virtual network driver for the broadband. They have software for
Windows and Mac, not for Linux. AFAIK this is still the case and there is
therefore no way you can get online with them unless you install their
crappy software.

Which is almost impossible to remove without reinstalling the OS

--
geoff

In message , Huge
writes
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 16:26:47 +0000, Geo wrote:

On 3 Feb 2006 10:17:05 -0800, "Weatherlawyer"
wrote:


So is there a service that compares with AOL, allows Linux

I was unaware that any ISP could decide which operating system you
computer could use - how do they do this?

They can't.

They can (and do) refuse to support you if you have problems, however.

I should say that Demon Internet were *very* helpful in my dialup days

That brings back memories ...

and no "Press "1" for ...



--
geoff

raden wrote:

Which is almost impossible to remove without reinstalling the OS

Used to be true a few years ago - but I have managed to migrate people
ot other ISPs with out any difficulty from about version 7 onwards...
(there was a class action in the US that helped them change their minds
about the policy of knobbling the OS so that it could never connect to
any other ISP again!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
raden wrote:

Which is almost impossible to remove without reinstalling the OS

Used to be true a few years ago - but I have managed to migrate people
ot other ISPs with out any difficulty from about version 7 onwards...
(there was a class action in the US that helped them change their minds
about the policy of knobbling the OS so that it could never connect to
any other ISP again!)

AOL uses a form of IE that is peculiar to their own service. It means
that they can protect newbies far better than might be the case with
off the shelf ware. It also means they can identify all the problems
that arise with the small selection of OSs available to run their
software on.

I suppose that is why they can afford to run such excellent free help.

John Rumm wrote:
Pete C wrote:

In due course I'll get an all in
one modem/firewall/wireless AP.


Unless you need wireless, then that is best turned off...

Can you please detail why? Just curious.

Regards
Capitol

Capitol wrote:

Unless you need wireless, then that is best turned off...

Can you please detail why? Just curious.

Security mainly. Most wireless routers seem to come pre configured to
allow open unencrypted access. Which means by default you are not only
sharing your internet connection with anyone in the neighbourhood who
wants to (ab)use it, you are also potentially sharing any network shares
you may have created unless you have taken the trouble to enable
password protect or user access control on them. You are also exposing
the windows TCP/IP stack and any services it may be running the whole
network including wireless users. Not too much of an issue with new
WinXP SP2 boxes - but a problem for unprotected Win2K systems.

So if you buy a wireless router and want to use it as such you need to
disable open access and turn on WPA encryption ASAP. If you are just
planing to keep the wireless bit in reserve for future expansion then it
it simplest to just turn it off in the routers configuration pages.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Weatherlawyer wrote:

AOL uses a form of IE that is peculiar to their own service. It means

Yes, they use to use a crippled version of Netscape...

that they can protect newbies far better than might be the case with

Well yes and no... their knobbled IE is setup with better defaults than
the MS default install, but it still runs most of the IE exploits.

The other bigger concern was their use of a VPN over the top of the
basic network connection. This ties the client computer closer to the
network than would otherwise be the case, and in itself can reduce
security.

For example, if you use a router to provide access which has a built in
firewall (as most do), the AOL VPN will tunnel straight past it without
giving it a chance to inspect the packets enroute. You are hence back to
a single layer of protection via software on the target computer again.

off the shelf ware. It also means they can identify all the problems
that arise with the small selection of OSs available to run their
software on.

I suppose that is why they can afford to run such excellent free help.

Unless you admit you are not using their supplied software, in which
case they will tell you to go away!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article
Capitol wrote:


John Rumm wrote:
Pete C wrote:

In due course I'll get an all in
one modem/firewall/wireless AP.


Unless you need wireless, then that is best turned off...

Can you please detail why? Just curious.

Because if it's not properly configured then someone can sit in their
car outside your house and use your internet connection for all sorts of
dubious purposes.

Rob Morley wrote:
Unless you need wireless, then that is best turned off...


Can you please detail why? Just curious.


Because if it's not properly configured then someone can sit in their
car outside your house and use your internet connection for all sorts of
dubious purposes.

So secure it. It's not hard. Back to the OP's point I'm on cable
(telewest) and have used Linux (Suse 8.3 and Knoppix) Win 95, 98 and XP,
because the downstream connection is ethernet.

Chris

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