Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Indeed. If you're not 500 miles from the spare battery pack. Or do you
just carry half a ton of spare battery in the boot?

All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology.

Your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO.

So enlighten us.

A 50KwH battery has been mentioned elsewhere as being a typical automotive
traction battery.

What sort of range at 70mph will that give?

Allegedly, that's going to need 1600Amp at 250v to recharge fully in 5
mins. Dunno about you, but my house has a 100A main fuse.

OK, so let's say three-phase at 415v. That's only just under 1000A.

Assuming 100% charging efficiency.

What sort of heat is the battery going to generate under that sort of
charge?

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Dave Plowman (News) ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Because unless you are doing 200 miles you never need to visit one.

Millions of people DO do that distance daily. Or more.

Assuming that for 5 days a week and 50 weeks that's 50,000 miles a year -
before any pleasure miles. I doubt millions do this sort of mileage.
(Based on looking at three year old ex lease cars at auction)

You don't need to do it EVERY day. Even if you just do 200 miles per day
once or twice a week, you'll be left stranded by electric cars.

This really is thick. How can you be stranded when there service stations
all over the place. He thinks he is crossing deserts.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

All of Drivel's theories are blown
away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology.

Your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO.

So enlighten us.

Read this first:
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002435.html
The Toshiba battey can be charged to 80% in few minutes.

...and 200 miles range and 0 to 60 in 5 secs:
http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features38

Then Google on Lithium Ion and Lithium Poly. FIND OUT instead of making a
prat of yourself. There is enough idiotic prats on these groups without
adding to the numbers.

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Assuming that for 5 days a week and 50 weeks that's 50,000 miles a
year - before any pleasure miles. I doubt millions do this sort of
mileage. (Based on looking at three year old ex lease cars at
auction)

You don't need to do it EVERY day. Even if you just do 200 miles per
day once or twice a week, you'll be left stranded by electric cars.

This really is thick. How can you be stranded when there service
stations all over the place. He thinks he is crossing deserts.

Yes, they are for petrol.
No, they aren't for elecktrickery...

Nor will they be in the foreseeable future.

BTW - right on cue over on uk.rec.cars.maintenance, there's somebody asking
about a 2003 Volvo with 250,000 miles on it.

Even if it's three years old, that's an average of about 250 miles per day.
If it's 2.5 years old and been working 5 days a week, then that average
goes up to 500 miles per day.

Message-ID:

How's that going to work on electrickery, then?

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these "recharge stations" that'll have a dozen
or so recharge points chucking out upwards of 1,000amp...

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Read this first:
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002435.html
The Toshiba battey can be charged to 80% in few minutes.

Interesting graph at the top of that page. Shows this new battery
technology as being at the opposite end of the "energy density" scale for
that needed by electric transportation.

So it'd be a foookin' big battery for the kind of storage required for
transportation.

..and 200 miles range and 0 to 60 in 5 secs:

ITYM "or"

http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features38

Mmmm.

770lb of the 2400lb is batteries.
So that's a similar weight to the powertrain of a "normal car".

And a minute per mile recharge.
http://www.duemotori.com/articoli.php?sid=6211

I wonder what the range is at motorway speeds, though? Bet it's nowhere
even remotely close to 200 miles. Yet it'll take 3.5 hours to recharge.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Assuming that for 5 days a week and 50 weeks that's 50,000 miles a
year - before any pleasure miles. I doubt millions do this sort of
mileage. (Based on looking at three year old ex lease cars at
auction)

You don't need to do it EVERY day. Even if you just do 200 miles per
day once or twice a week, you'll be left stranded by electric cars.

This really is thick. How can you be
stranded when there service
stations all over the place. He thinks
he is crossing deserts.

Yes, they are for petrol.
No, they aren't for elecktrickery...

Oh you are dumb. When electric cars come in volume they will be there. Then
no oil depots to blow up and pour pollution all over millions of lungs for
week.

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these
"recharge stations" that'll have a dozen
or so recharge points chucking out
upwards of 1,000amp...

You should not forget.

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Yes, they are for petrol.
No, they aren't for elecktrickery...

Oh you are dumb. When electric cars come in volume they will be there.

But electric cars WON'T come in volume UNTIL the recharge stations are
everywhere...

Then no oil depots to blow up and pour pollution all over millions of
lungs for week.

Just power stations?

(Actually, I live about 10miles from Buncefield, and we got *no* fallout
from it. Nor did a colleague a mile from there)

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these
"recharge stations" that'll have a dozen
or so recharge points chucking out
upwards of 1,000amp...

You should not forget.

So how's these recharge stations going to get all that juice, then?

Adrian wrote:
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :


Assuming that for 5 days a week and 50 weeks that's 50,000 miles a
year - before any pleasure miles. I doubt millions do this sort of
mileage. (Based on looking at three year old ex lease cars at
auction)


You don't need to do it EVERY day. Even if you just do 200 miles per
day once or twice a week, you'll be left stranded by electric cars.


This really is thick. How can you be stranded when there service
stations all over the place. He thinks he is crossing deserts.


Yes, they are for petrol.
No, they aren't for elecktrickery...

Nor will they be in the foreseeable future.

Thats what they said about LPG pumps, plenty of those around now.

BTW - right on cue over on uk.rec.cars.maintenance, there's somebody asking
about a 2003 Volvo with 250,000 miles on it.

Even if it's three years old, that's an average of about 250 miles per day.
If it's 2.5 years old and been working 5 days a week, then that average
goes up to 500 miles per day.

Average car use is 8,700 miles per year (google it).

Message-ID:

How's that going to work on electrickery, then?

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these "recharge stations" that'll have a dozen
or so recharge points chucking out upwards of 1,000amp...

Don't forget thats at battery voltage, the mains supply in would need
240/battery voltage * that - ie 200amps for 12v , 100 amps for 24v.
Thats bugger all in terms of industrial supply.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

Read this first:
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002435.html
The Toshiba battey can be charged to 80% in few minutes.

Interesting graph at the top of that page.
Shows this new battery technology as
being at the opposite end of the
"energy density" scale for
that needed by electric transportation.

So it'd be a foookin' big battery for
the kind of storage required for
transportation.

Nope.

..and 200 miles range and 0 to 60 in 5 secs:

ITYM "or"

http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features38

Mmmm.

770lb of the 2400lb is batteries.
So that's a similar weight to the powertrain
of a "normal car".

But is pollution free in cities and no complex mechanics, meaning it will
last far, far longer and quiet and no noise pollution either....and 200 mile
range on now outdated battery technology.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005...arsquos_f.html

And a minute per mile recharge.
http://www.duemotori.com/articoli.php?sid=6211

I wonder what the range is at motorway
speeds, though? Bet it's nowhere
even remotely close to 200 miles.

Stop making things up.

Yet it'll take 3.5 hours to recharge.

But that is 2002 Lith-Ion technology. Lith-Poly and the new Toshiba are very
different again.

http://www.acpropulsion.com/ACP_Bib_results.pdf

You really have to concentrate.

Sharky ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Nor will they be in the foreseeable future.

Thats what they said about LPG pumps, plenty of those around now.

Mmmm. Just over a thousand.
http://www.est.org.uk/fleet/refuellingmap/

Which is about 10% of petrol stations.
http://www.ukpia.com/industry_inform...retailing.aspx

I think you'll find that the fact that the LPG converters and evangelists
consumer activities seem to focus on giving maps of LPG pumps away is
rather proving my chicken-and-egg point.

BTW - right on cue over on uk.rec.cars.maintenance, there's somebody
asking about a 2003 Volvo with 250,000 miles on it.

Even if it's three years old, that's an average of about 250 miles
per day. If it's 2.5 years old and been working 5 days a week, then
that average goes up to 500 miles per day.

Average car use is 8,700 miles per year (google it).

shrug I don't care.

The average for my own cars is south of a third of that. Yet one of my cars
does north of double that. And I'm _not_ a high-mileage driver day in/day
out. But I do do high-mileage runs.

There's a LOT of people who do a LOT more miles than that.
For them, electric vehicles are unusable. THAT is my point.

Oh, and guess what? The vehicles that do the most miles tend to be bigger
(Who does 50,000 miles per year in a Corsa?) and - of course - use more
fuel and emit more pollutants...

How's that going to work on electrickery, then?

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these "recharge stations" that'll have a
dozen or so recharge points chucking out upwards of 1,000amp...

Don't forget thats at battery voltage, the mains supply in would need
240/battery voltage * that - ie 200amps for 12v , 100 amps for 24v.
Thats bugger all in terms of industrial supply.

Umm, no. That was at 415v. 250v was reckoned to be 1600A. Before charging
losses.

Not my calculations. Natural Philosopher's.
Message-ID:

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002435.html
The Toshiba battey can be charged to 80% in few minutes.

Interesting graph at the top of that page.
Shows this new battery technology as
being at the opposite end of the
"energy density" scale for
that needed by electric transportation.

So it'd be a foookin' big battery for
the kind of storage required for
transportation.

Nope.

Ah. Is this a new definition of "Energy Density", then? One that doesn't
concern itself with the size and weight for a certain energy capacity?

770lb of the 2400lb is batteries.
So that's a similar weight to the powertrain
of a "normal car".

But is pollution free in cities

Whilst being useless outside them.

I wonder what the range is at motorway
speeds, though? Bet it's nowhere
even remotely close to 200 miles.

Stop making things up.

So if it'll do 200 miles at motorway speeds, it'll have a far greater range
at lower speeds, won't it? So why don't they quote that range, instead?
It'd sound FAR more impressive.,.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

However, the vehicle is another matter. It is more efficient to pour
fuel into an engine at a power station with advanced stack scrubbers,
that drives a genny, that sends the electricity down a line, then
into a cars battery and propel the car, than pour the fuel directly
into a current car. 75% of energy stored in your tank is wasted,
while only a few percentage points of energy is wasted from a battery
pack - and the electric car is 100% clean at point of use, cleaning
up cities at a stroke."

Now read this 4 times...and you can move your lips if you like.

I have done,

I your case shout as you read it. Now do it again.

what is remarkable is that it is complete and utter ******** from one
end to the other. It takes no account of generation, transmission and
conversion losses, and makes ludicrous claims about the efficiency of
a battery.

As your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO, it is clear
you know even less about the rest.

Ah, back to your usual tactics, confident assertions from a base of
complete and utter ignorance. Go back to reading the catalogues.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:

Indeed. If you're not 500 miles from the spare battery pack. Or do
you just carry half a ton of spare battery in the boot?

All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology.

Your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO.

Please feel free to contradict me with facts, rather than baseless
assertions.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Yes, they are for petrol.
No, they aren't for elecktrickery...

Oh you are dumb. When electric
cars come in volume they will be there.

But electric cars WON'T come in
volume UNTIL the recharge stations are
everywhere...

You are still dumb. As been said, the government (UK,EU) will insist they
are there.

Then no oil depots to blow up and
pour pollution all over millions of
lungs for week.

Just power stations?

Did you see that black smoke cloud?

(Actually, I live about 10miles from
Buncefield, and we got *no* fallout
from it. Nor did a colleague a mile from there)

Millions did the other way though. I friends said in north London cars were
putting their lights on during the day it was so black.

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these
"recharge stations" that'll have a dozen
or so recharge points chucking out
upwards of 1,000amp...

You should not forget.

So how's these recharge stations
going to get all that juice, then?

Electric cables from the power stations?

"Sharky" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :
Assuming that for 5 days a week and 50 weeks that's 50,000 miles a
year - before any pleasure miles. I doubt millions do this sort of
mileage. (Based on looking at three year old ex lease cars at
auction)


You don't need to do it EVERY day. Even if you just do 200 miles per
day once or twice a week, you'll be left stranded by electric cars.


This really is thick. How can you be stranded when there service
stations all over the place. He thinks he is crossing deserts.


Yes, they are for petrol.
No, they aren't for elecktrickery...

Nor will they be in the foreseeable future.

Thats what they said about LPG pumps, plenty of those around now.

They said that about petrol pumps when it was bought in cans at the
chandlers.

BTW - right on cue over on uk.rec.cars.maintenance, there's somebody
asking about a 2003 Volvo with 250,000 miles on it.

Even if it's three years old, that's an average of about 250 miles per
day.
If it's 2.5 years old and been working 5 days a week, then that average
goes up to 500 miles per day.

Average car use is 8,700 miles per year (google it).

...and they don't need 600 mile ranges either.

Message-ID:

How's that going to work on electrickery, then?

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these
"recharge stations" that'll have a dozen or so recharge points chucking
out upwards of 1,000amp...

Don't forget thats at battery voltage, the mains supply in would need
240/battery voltage * that - ie 200amps for 12v , 100 amps for 24v.
Thats bugger all in terms of industrial supply.

Yep.

In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

..and 200 miles range and 0 to 60 in 5 secs:
http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features38

Carbon fibre and aluminium construction and still an 1100kg kerb weight.
350kg / 58KWhr battery pack. 200 mile range. 666000 dollars.

Unimpressed.

Generously ignoring charging losses, I make that about 77.5 g/km for
CO2. (58kWhr * 430 gCO2/kWhr / 322km). That's the best it will do and is
only about 25% less than the official (average) figure for a much larger
Toyota Prius.

A Lotus Elise fitted with a small latest generation diesel engine would
do the same job for about a fifteenth of the cost.

--
Steve Walker

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Oh you are dumb. When electric
cars come in volume they will be there.

But electric cars WON'T come in
volume UNTIL the recharge stations are
everywhere...

You are still dumb. As been said, the government (UK,EU) will insist
they are there.

And *I'M* dumb?

So will they be nationalising all the petrol stations, then?
Across the entire EU?

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these
"recharge stations" that'll have a dozen
or so recharge points chucking out
upwards of 1,000amp...

You should not forget.

So how's these recharge stations
going to get all that juice, then?

Electric cables from the power stations?

Mmmm. And these cables are going to be HOW thick? Will they be strung above
the scenery or buried under the streets?

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Sharky ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Nor will they be in the foreseeable future.

Thats what they said about LPG pumps, plenty of those around now.

Mmmm. Just over a thousand.

This is a non-point.

There's a LOT of people who do
a LOT more miles than that.
For them, electric vehicles are
unusable. THAT is my point.

You don't have a point as re-charge stations will be about. You are
confused...and slow.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

But is pollution free in cities

Whilst being useless outside them.

At 200 to 300 miles range they can go anywhere. As 90% plus of us live in
towns and cities our lungs matter.

Steve Walker ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Carbon fibre and aluminium construction and still an 1100kg kerb weight.
350kg / 58KWhr battery pack. 200 mile range. 666000 dollars.

Unimpressed.

Generously ignoring charging losses, I make that about 77.5 g/km for
CO2. (58kWhr * 430 gCO2/kWhr / 322km).

No, no, no... Aren't you paying attention to Herr Doktor FrankenDrivel?

This is waves hands vaguely MAGIC electricity. There's no charging losses
and it comes from CLEAN, ummm, energy.

only about 25% less than the official (average) figure for a much larger
Toyota Prius.

Indeed. And, when you add in the 70% charging losses estimated elsewhere,
you'll be above that of the Prius or even all-petrol cars such as the
C1/107/Aygo.

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

As 90% plus of us live in towns and cities our lungs matter.

Doesn't "North London" count as a "town or city", then?

Because you've already claimed that pollution from an industrial accident
arising from the generation/transmission/storage of energy for
transportation will drift over North London.

The fact that Buncefield's fire was primarily aviation fuel seems to have
slipped you by, too.

Or will your utopia have electric planes, too?

How about the trucks that the food is delivered to these towns and cities
in? Will they be electric? I wonder what the average daily mileage for an
HGV is...?

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

However, the vehicle is another matter. It is more efficient to pour
fuel into an engine at a power station with advanced stack scrubbers,
that drives a genny, that sends the electricity down a line, then into
a cars battery and propel the car, than pour the fuel directly into a
current car. 75% of energy stored in your tank is wasted, while only a
few percentage points of energy is wasted from a battery pack - and the
electric car is 100% clean at point of use, cleaning up cities at a
stroke."

Now read this 4 times...and you can move your lips if you like.

I have done,

I your case shout as you read it. Now do it again.

what is remarkable is that it is complete and utter ******** from one
end to the other. It takes no account of generation, transmission and
conversion losses, and makes ludicrous claims about the efficiency of a
battery.

As your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO, it is clear you
know even less about the rest.

Ah, back to your usual tactics, confident assertions from a base of
complete and utter ignorance. Go back to reading the catalogues.

Read the thread and the links ****-kicker and you it is clear you know sweet
FA.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:

Indeed. If you're not 500 miles from the spare battery pack. Or do you
just carry half a ton of spare battery in the boot?

All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology.

Your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO.

Please feel free to contradict me with facts, rather than baseless
assertions.

READ THE THREAD AND THE LINKS. I shouted it for you - see? Boy you are dumb.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
In message ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes

..and 200 miles range and 0 to 60 in 5 secs:
http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features38

Carbon fibre and aluminium construction and still an 1100kg kerb weight.
350kg / 58KWhr battery pack. 200 mile range. 666000 dollars.

Unimpressed.

Same here. Things have moved on since 2002.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Oh you are dumb. When electric
cars come in volume they will be there.

But electric cars WON'T come in
volume UNTIL the recharge stations are
everywhere...

You are still dumb. As been said, the government (UK,EU) will insist
they are there.

And *I'M* dumb?

Yes.

So will they be nationalising all the
petrol stations, then?

No. They say put re-charge stations in, and they do.

Across the entire EU?

Yes, all across.

Oh, yes - I forgot about all these
"recharge stations" that'll have a dozen
or so recharge points chucking out
upwards of 1,000amp...

You should not forget.

So how's these recharge stations
going to get all that juice, then?

Electric cables from the power stations?

Mmmm.

Yes, cables. Lecky runs down them.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

Amazing. This one thinks electric cars should be abandoned because he want
to go 600 mile with a re-fill. Boy do some mothers 'ave 'em.

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology.

Your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO.

Please feel free to contradict me with facts, rather than baseless
assertions.

READ THE THREAD AND THE LINKS. I shouted it for you - see? Boy you are
dumb.

The thread that's mainly been solid facts against you countered with a
dismissive wave of the hand with a "you know nothing" from you?

The links that have shown you to be barking mad?

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Amazing. This one thinks electric cars should be abandoned because he
want to go 600 mile with a re-fill.

Umm, not quite, no. Try reading the thread.

This one thinks that electric cars are impractical because of massively
limited range and impossibly long recharge time.

You have yet to come up with any facts to counter this.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Battery technology will ALWAYS have the problem of the charging delay.

I've seen prototype panasonic 5 minute recharge LIPO cells announced.

Do they give any efficiency figures? Ie power required for a full charge
against power out?

It's difficult to find figures for Lithium ion cells. Drivel refers to
lithium polymer cells but fails to make the point that lithium polymer
is simply a different packaging of lithium ion technology and has no
efficiency advantages over lithium ion.

Coulometric charge efficiency for lithium ion batteries depends heavily
on the charge/discharge regime used, fast charge regimes lead to low
efficiencies and efficiency falls off as the number of charge cycles
increase. I've seen figures quoted that range from about 50% efficiency
early in the life of a cell, peaking at about 90% efficiency over 10-12
cycles then falling to 80% efficiency thereafter.

Lithium ion cells also are particularly sensitive to variations in
ambient temperature, this requires battery conditioning systems for
charge and discharge that add to the weight and consume electricity.

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

You are still dumb. As been said, the government (UK,EU) will insist
they are there.

And *I'M* dumb?

Yes.

So will they be nationalising all the
petrol stations, then?

No. They say put re-charge stations in, and they do.

Who puts them in? Who pays for them to be put in?

Across the entire EU?

Yes, all across.

Right...
I can't WAIT to hear the replies you'll get in the accession states...

So how's these recharge stations
going to get all that juice, then?

Electric cables from the power stations?

Mmmm.

Yes, cables. Lecky runs down them.

Right... Just a *little* more detail, perhaps?

Are we talking a bit of sellotape-repaired twin-core bellwire, joined with
chocolate blocks, trailing along the pavement?

Or are we talking really rather massive and ludicrously expensive
infrastructure changes affecting the ENTIRE continent? Which would of
course, be funded by waves hand Them.

So what sort of current will be being delivered to your typical motorway
services, then?

Bear in mind, of course, that vehicles will have to be recharged *at least*
twice as frequently as they currently fill up, so you'll need twice as many
"pumps" - assuming the same average time spent at each...

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology.

Your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO.

Please feel free to contradict me with facts, rather than baseless
assertions.

READ THE THREAD AND
THE LINKS. I shouted it for you - see? Boy you are
dumb.

The thread that's mainly been
solid facts against you

The thread has been nothing of the sort. From fools like you who initially
said batteries could only go a few miles it is now proven battery cars can
get 200-300 miles. From people like you saying it takes all day to charge,
it now is proven it takes a few minutes and brake re-gen too.

All you have been foolishly on about is driving 600 miles on one fill. As I
have said, boy you are dumb. BTW, Mitsubishi have new all electric range in
a few years time with motor in the hub.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

Amazing. This one thinks electric
cars should be abandoned because he
want to go 600 mile without a re-fill.

Umm, not quite, no.

800 miles then.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

As 90% plus of us live in towns and cities our lungs matter.

Doesn't "North London" count as a "town or city", then?

You are clearly mad.

Because you've already claimed
that pollution from an industrial accident
arising from the generation/transmission/storage
of energy for transportation will drift over North London.

Do you mean all initial accidents anywhere will have the smoke drift over
north London?

Get help.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

You are still dumb. As been said, the government (UK,EU) will insist
they are there.

And *I'M* dumb?

Yes.

So will they be nationalising all the
petrol stations, then?

No. They say put re-charge stations in, and they do.

Who puts them in? Who pays for them to be put in?

Across the entire EU?

Yes, all across.

Right...
I can't WAIT to hear the replies you'll get in the accession states...

So how's these recharge stations
going to get all that juice, then?

Electric cables from the power stations?

Mmmm.

Yes, cables. Lecky runs down them.

Right...

** snip drivel **

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

The thread that's mainly been
solid facts against you

The thread has been nothing of the sort. From fools like you who
initially said batteries could only go a few miles it is now proven
battery cars can get 200-300 miles.

At a pootle. At speed, the range plummets.

From people like you saying it
takes all day to charge, it now is proven it takes a few minutes and
brake re-gen too.

Umm, no, it hasn't.

You've shown that itty bitty mobile phone batteries can be quickly
recharged, but the very link you gave states that they're nowhere near good
enough at energy density for vehicular applications.

BTW, Mitsubishi have new all
electric range in a few years time with motor in the hub.

Indeed.

That'd be derived from this autumn's Evo MIEV concept, would it? The one
with 2300Ah of batteries, which all-up weighs 100kg more than the petrol
equivalent despite the very clever lightweight hub motors? And an *optimum*
range of 150 miles?

And at real world speeds?

Now, lemme think...

2300Ah batteries at 15v.
4 x 50Kw motors, so 200Kw.

I wonder how long those batteries can be expected to last at full power?

Oh, look, top speed's not much over 100mph, so they will be working fairly
hard at motorway speed, won't they?

I tell you what, DrD, you're the electrickery guru - you do the maths...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology. The high charge density
lightweight batteries have much lower thermal efficiencies than
lead-acid batteries.

I find it interesting that many car makers are going to expensive lengths
to save weight - extensive use of aluminium etc. But still fit lead acid
batteries - where cost really isn't a consideration.

It's because lead acid batteries don't need complex charge controllers,
work across a wide range of environmental temperatures and provide huge
cranking currents time after time. They are big, rough and tough and
also extremely efficient compared to any of the alternatives around.
Where they fail is on charge per kg which is where Lithium based
batterys win. Where Lithium batteries fail is on charge/discharge
cycles, efficiency and the need for complex charge cycles and careful
management of discharge.

Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

No. They say put re-charge stations in, and they do.

Who puts them in? Who pays for them to be put in?

No answer to this one?

Across the entire EU?

Yes, all across.

Right...
I can't WAIT to hear the replies you'll get in the accession
states...

Or to this one?

But let's miss out the waves hand dismissively economic reality, let's
look at the infrastructure...

So how's these recharge stations
going to get all that juice, then?

Electric cables from the power stations?

Mmmm.

Yes, cables. Lecky runs down them.

Right...

** snip drivel **

No, let's put it back in, shall we?

Yes, cables. Lecky runs down them.

Right... Just a *little* more detail, perhaps?

Are we talking a bit of sellotape-repaired twin-core bellwire, joined
with chocolate blocks, trailing along the pavement?

Or are we talking really rather massive and ludicrously expensive
infrastructure changes affecting the ENTIRE continent? Which would of
course, be funded by waves hand Them.

So what sort of current will be being delivered to your typical
motorway services, then?

Bear in mind, of course, that vehicles will have to be recharged *at
least* twice as frequently as they currently fill up, so you'll need
twice as many "pumps" - assuming the same average time spent at
each...

Or is the answer a bit scary for you?

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:

Indeed. If you're not 500 miles from the spare battery pack. Or do
you just carry half a ton of spare battery in the boot?

All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology.

Your knowledge of current batteries is less than ZERO.

Please feel free to contradict me with facts, rather than baseless
assertions.

READ THE THREAD AND THE LINKS. I shouted it for you - see? Boy you are
dumb.

None of the links that you gave referred to the round trip charge
efficiency of the batteries used.

Do feel free to try again.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Doctor Drivel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

The thread that's mainly been
solid facts against you

The thread has been nothing of the sort. From fools like you who
initially said batteries could only go a few miles it is now proven
battery cars can get 200-300 miles.

At a pootle.

Do some reading, I know think this difficult.

From people like you saying it
takes all day to charge, it now is
proven it takes a few minutes and
brake re-gen too.

Umm, no, it hasn't.

Proves you are total fool.

BTW, Mitsubishi have new all
electric range in a few years time
with motor in the hub.

Indeed.

That'd be derived from this autumn's
Evo MIEV concept, would it?

No they announced it about a year ago, All new fresh sheet design.

** snip incorrent made up babble **

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
All of Drivel's theories are blown away by the poor thermal
characteristics of current battery technology. The high charge density
lightweight batteries have much lower thermal efficiencies than
lead-acid batteries.

I find it interesting that many car makers are going to expensive lengths
to save weight - extensive use of aluminium etc. But still fit lead acid
batteries - where cost really isn't a consideration.

It's because lead acid batteries don't need complex charge controllers,
work across a wide range of environmental temperatures and provide huge
cranking currents time after time. They are big, rough and tough and also
extremely efficient compared to any of the alternatives around.

The last sentence proves you know ZERO about batteries.

** misinformation **