Hi Guys,

After mucking me around for six weeks, my plumber has finally let me
down for the final time and left me with a thermostatic mixer shower to
install myself.

There are 15mm hot & cold shower tails behind the bath which I need to
step up to 22mm as this is the size of the shower inlet.

I'm using compression joints and I've been told that I need to use a
22mm joint with a 22x15mm internal reducer. I have all this stuff and
there is only one way that the internal reducer will fit into the joint
and that is if I throw away the olive that comes with the joint.
Everything seems to fit snugly but, when everything is tightened, the
15mm pipe is not gripped tightly. i.e. I can pull it out of the joint
with my fingers.

Now, even a numpty like myself knows that this is just plain wrong.

Is there a specific way this joint and reducer needs to be fitted or am
I missing a vital ingredient that does the job of gripping the 15mm pipe?

Just to recap, I have the following:

22mm plastic pipe with insert
15mm plastic pipe with insert
22mm elbow joint
22x15mm internal reducer

(all purchased from B&Q if that has any bearing on teh situation)

and that's it.

Can anyone help?...My partner really would like to be able to use the
bathroom again this side of Christmas and you just cannot get a plumber
out of bed at short notice for anything less than a fortune at this time
of year.

cheers (and Merry Christmas folks)
Laurence
--
www.reestitmutton.co.uk

Bringing you the best-value mobile phone contract deals in the UK
Presented the way it should be...in plain English

Reestit Mutton wrote:

There are 15mm hot & cold shower tails behind the bath which I need to
step up to 22mm as this is the size of the shower inlet.

ok

I'm using compression joints and I've been told that I need to use a
22mm joint with a 22x15mm internal reducer. I have all this stuff and
there is only one way that the internal reducer will fit into the joint
and that is if I throw away the olive that comes with the joint.

That won't work - the olive is the vital part of a compression joint.

Everything seems to fit snugly but, when everything is tightened, the
15mm pipe is not gripped tightly. i.e. I can pull it out of the joint
with my fingers.

Now, even a numpty like myself knows that this is just plain wrong.

Yup

Is there a specific way this joint and reducer needs to be fitted or am
I missing a vital ingredient that does the job of gripping the 15mm pipe?

Just to recap, I have the following:

22mm plastic pipe with insert
15mm plastic pipe with insert
22mm elbow joint
22x15mm internal reducer

OK, having some trouble visualising exactly what your "reducer" looks
like are its ends male or female?

Have a look at http://www.bes.ltd.uk for some pictures...

You typically get a number of different types of reducers: reduction
fittings - these are normal fittings but have different sized female
ends to suit your pipes. So for example a 22x15mm reducer would have two
compression fittings, a 22 on one end and a 15 on the other. Look at
product code 6714 on the BES site. This you would use with olives either
end like a normal fitting.

You can also get fitting reducers - but these are not common in
compression. Here one end is designed to fit into a normal fitting (i.e.
it is a male end) and the other end is a fitting of a different size.
Product code 6788 would be an example of a solder fitting of this type.

There is also a thing called a reducing set that is designed to work
with compression fittings to adapt the socket on one side to a smaller
pipe.

Since you have plastic pipes, perhaps a straight reduction fitting like
10513 would be simpler - so step up to 22mm plastic, and then use your
compression elbow.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 01:50:56 +0000, Reestit Mutton
wrote:

| Hi Guys,
|
| After mucking me around for six weeks, my plumber has finally let me
| down for the final time and left me with a thermostatic mixer shower to
| install myself.
|
| There are 15mm hot & cold shower tails behind the bath which I need to
| step up to 22mm as this is the size of the shower inlet.
|
| I'm using compression joints and I've been told that I need to use a
| 22mm joint with a 22x15mm internal reducer. I have all this stuff and
| there is only one way that the internal reducer will fit into the joint
| and that is if I throw away the olive that comes with the joint.
| Everything seems to fit snugly but, when everything is tightened, the
| 15mm pipe is not gripped tightly. i.e. I can pull it out of the joint
| with my fingers.

Before fitting a compression joint the copper pipe must be perfectly
round, smooth and burr free. Take any flash caused by cutting the
pipe off with a file. Check that there are no dents in that bit of
the pipe. Remove any crud/paint/anything off the surface of the pipe
with steel wool. When the end of the pipe feels like a baby's bum
everything will fit together perfectly.

Then tighten the joint *very* *tight*
..
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work :-)

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
....

Then tighten the joint *very* *tight*

Compression fittings should be hand tight plus half a turn. If they need
more, there is something wrong.

Colin Bignell

"Reestit Mutton" wrote in message
...
....
Just to recap, I have the following:

22mm plastic pipe with insert
15mm plastic pipe with insert
22mm elbow joint
22x15mm internal reducer

I'm not sure those reducers are designed for use with plastic pipe.

(all purchased from B&Q if that has any bearing on teh situation)...

I suggest going to a proper plumbers' supplier, telling the bloke behind the
counter what you want to do and asking him to supply you what you need.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:07:15 -0000, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:

|
| "Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
| ...
| ...
|
| Then tighten the joint *very* *tight*
|
| Compression fittings should be hand tight plus half a turn. If they need
| more, there is something wrong.

Maybe my hand is not as strong as yours. I can sometimes not tighten
by hand to close on the olive.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work :-)

John Rumm wrote:


OK, having some trouble visualising exactly what your "reducer" looks
like are its ends male or female?

Have a look at http://www.bes.ltd.uk for some pictures...

You typically get a number of different types of reducers: reduction
fittings - these are normal fittings but have different sized female
ends to suit your pipes. So for example a 22x15mm reducer would have two
compression fittings, a 22 on one end and a 15 on the other. Look at
product code 6714 on the BES site. This you would use with olives either
end like a normal fitting.

You can also get fitting reducers - but these are not common in
compression. Here one end is designed to fit into a normal fitting (i.e.
it is a male end) and the other end is a fitting of a different size.
Product code 6788 would be an example of a solder fitting of this type.

There is also a thing called a reducing set that is designed to work
with compression fittings to adapt the socket on one side to a smaller
pipe.

Since you have plastic pipes, perhaps a straight reduction fitting like
10513 would be simpler - so step up to 22mm plastic, and then use your
compression elbow.


It looks somewhat like part number 9160 (Reducing set, Italian) or part
number 7649 (reducing set, chrome plated).

Laurence
--
www.reestitmutton.co.uk

Bringing you the best-value mobile phone contract deals in the UK
Presented the way it should be...in plain English

"Reestit Mutton" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys,

After mucking me around for six weeks, my plumber has finally let me down
for the final time and left me with a thermostatic mixer shower to install
myself.

There are 15mm hot & cold shower tails behind the bath which I need to
step up to 22mm as this is the size of the shower inlet.

I'm using compression joints and I've been told that I need to use a 22mm
joint with a 22x15mm internal reducer. I have all this stuff and there is
only one way that the internal reducer will fit into the joint and that is
if I throw away the olive that comes with the joint. Everything seems to
fit snugly but, when everything is tightened, the 15mm pipe is not gripped
tightly. i.e. I can pull it out of the joint with my fingers.

Reading this again, did you use a 15mm olive on the pipe? I rarely use
compression fittings, but IIRC, the reducer only has the effect of allowing
you to use a smaller olive in the fitting.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 01:50:56 +0000, Reestit Mutton wrote:

Hi Guys,

After mucking me around for six weeks, my plumber has finally let me
down for the final time and left me with a thermostatic mixer shower to
install myself.

There are 15mm hot & cold shower tails behind the bath which I need to
step up to 22mm as this is the size of the shower inlet.

I'm using compression joints and I've been told that I need to use a
22mm joint with a 22x15mm internal reducer. I have all this stuff and
there is only one way that the internal reducer will fit into the joint
and that is if I throw away the olive that comes with the joint.
Everything seems to fit snugly but, when everything is tightened, the
15mm pipe is not gripped tightly. i.e. I can pull it out of the joint
with my fingers.

Now, even a numpty like myself knows that this is just plain wrong.

Is there a specific way this joint and reducer needs to be fitted or am
I missing a vital ingredient that does the job of gripping the 15mm pipe?

Just to recap, I have the following:

22mm plastic pipe with insert
15mm plastic pipe with insert
22mm elbow joint
22x15mm internal reducer

(all purchased from B&Q if that has any bearing on teh situation)

and that's it.

Can anyone help?...My partner really would like to be able to use the
bathroom again this side of Christmas and you just cannot get a plumber
out of bed at short notice for anything less than a fortune at this time
of year.

cheers (and Merry Christmas folks)
Laurence

Reducing sets come in two flavours ( that I have so far used).

In both cases you discard (to your tool box) the 22mm olive.

In the case with the set that is made from 3 parts you put the deep part
(the bit with less than 15mm hole) in it into the 22mm fitting then you
put the 22mm back nut on to the 15mm pipe, then the shallower part then
the 15mm olive. Insert pipe into deep insert in fitting and tighten to
take up the slack should be hand tight unless the pipes are slightly
awkward. The tighten about 4-7 flats more. This should grip the plastic
pipe well unless the reducing set is not really a 22/15 unit or the
plastic pipe is not 15mm.

With the one peice reducers. These go long end into the 22mm fitting first.
These may require working harder to get a grip and they crimp the
thinnish centre section onto the plastic.

Note in both cases you probably need to treat the fitting with at least
the same "oomph" that you would to make the joint on to a 22mm pipe. A
little grease on the threads and a little sealant (eg. liquid ptfe) on the
mating surfaces may save some hassle.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:12:02 +0000, nightjar wrote:


"Reestit Mutton" wrote in message
...
...
Just to recap, I have the following:

22mm plastic pipe with insert
15mm plastic pipe with insert
22mm elbow joint
22x15mm internal reducer

I'm not sure those reducers are designed for use with plastic pipe.

(all purchased from B&Q if that has any bearing on teh situation)...

I suggest going to a proper plumbers' supplier, telling the bloke behind the
counter what you want to do and asking him to supply you what you need.

If it's all out of sight then a 2x 22mm speedit elbows and 2x 22-15 stem
reducers and the job's done.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:


Reducing sets come in two flavours ( that I have so far used).

In both cases you discard (to your tool box) the 22mm olive.

In the case with the set that is made from 3 parts you put the deep part
(the bit with less than 15mm hole) in it into the 22mm fitting then you
put the 22mm back nut on to the 15mm pipe, then the shallower part then
the 15mm olive. Insert pipe into deep insert in fitting and tighten to
take up the slack should be hand tight unless the pipes are slightly
awkward. The tighten about 4-7 flats more. This should grip the plastic
pipe well unless the reducing set is not really a 22/15 unit or the
plastic pipe is not 15mm.

With the one peice reducers. These go long end into the 22mm fitting first.
These may require working harder to get a grip and they crimp the
thinnish centre section onto the plastic.

Note in both cases you probably need to treat the fitting with at least
the same "oomph" that you would to make the joint on to a 22mm pipe. A
little grease on the threads and a little sealant (eg. liquid ptfe) on the
mating surfaces may save some hassle.


Cheers Ed (and others).

In the end, I bit the bullet and took the 15mm plastic back to where it
joined a 15mm copper pipe (straight connector) and replaced the pipe
with a 22x15mm straight converter and 22mm pipe instead.

My problem was mainly one of trying not to introduce any more joints
than necessary (to minimise the risk of a leak behind a tiled wall).

As it happens it still took me many trips to many DIY outlets to solve
the problem as I needed a 22mm stop end to cap off the shower pipes
after poking them through the ply so that the tilers can do their job
BEFORE the shower is fitted. As I needed to fit these stop ends to the
chrome back nuts that came with the shower it took three different
"brands" of stop end from three different suppliers to find ones that
fitted properly.

Sheesh...and my plumber claimed it was a one hour job at the most!
That's always the way isn't it...get a tradesman to quote for a job and
it's a complicated piece of work...get the same tradesman to rebate you
for unfinished work and it's suddenly become an insignificant piece of
work (yes...we did give him his final installment before completion -
he'd done so much good work up to that point and there was so little
left to pay that we thought it wasn't worth causing an argument over -
more fool us!).

Anyway...the job's done now and I'm as pleased as punch. Thanks for your
help guys. Much appreciated.

regards,
Laurence
--
www.reestitmutton.co.uk

Bringing you the best-value mobile phone contract deals in the UK
Presented the way it should be...in plain English