On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, JS wrote:

Huh? Are you saying different towns in the UK had different mains
voltages?

The same was true in North America.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Sawney Beane wrote:

The bayonet bulbs I've found in Japanese and American cars require
more force. If the glass were as thin as an A19's

....it is. Thinner, in some cases.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:36:05 UTC, Clive Mitchell
wrote:

In message , JS
writes
Huh? Are you saying different towns in the UK had different mains
voltages? When did all this end?

I'll make a wild guess at 40 years ago.

Apparently Great Western Road in Glasgow had DC on one side and AC on
the other.

I have a memory of the mid-to-late 1950s, and my model railway set. No
mains transformer, but a loud rotary converter. Yes, we had DC mains
then. I remember the day my father came back from work with a couple of
(relatively) small red metal boxes to replace the rotary converter. I
was amazed at the lack of noise. That was of course when they did the
conversion; he worked for the electricity board so was well prepared!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

In uk.d-i-y, TKM wrote:
Oh, that's interesting. I can see how an appliance such as an electric
stove could be wired to work on either 120 or 240; but how could a
toaster, fan or light bulbs, for that matter, be reworked for a
different voltage especially if the process involved just a few volts?
Seems like a transformer would be needed for each device.

IIRC devices that used a transformer, e.g. a radio, would have multiple
taps, and a voltage selector somewhere round the back. Usually the
voltage selector took the form of a removable jumper, with a variety of
positions (200V, 210V, 220V, 230V, 240V) arranged in a semi-circle
around the common connector, and perhaps 110V as well. My memory of
these is pretty hazy - no doubt someone can dig up a photo from
somewhere.

Of course it has to be remembered that each household then had *very*
few electrical appliances compared with today.

--
Mike Barnes

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Chris Bacon wrote:
Some of the best stuff in the world is made in the PRC.

Hooboy. Here we go again.

Where are you posting from? I'm in uk.d-i-y. Have you had,
erm, *discussions* about Things Coming From China?

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:04:09 +0000, Owain
wrote:

Sawney Beane wrote:
If the UK and America used the same mains voltage, lamps from one
place could be plugged in in the other. Then the UN could hold a
referendum to determine which bulb base was perferred. People who
continued to use the other kind would of course be fined.

USA hasn't signed up to Kyoto, why would it agree to fine people who use
the wrong sort of lightbulbs.


40 - 15


--

..andy

Owain typed


Clive Mitchell wrote:
Apparently Great Western Road in Glasgow had DC on one side and AC on
the other.

Catholic mains and Protestant mains? g,d&rvvvvf

Owain

Merry hell in Maryhill?

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In article , Andrew
Gabriel wrote:
Electricity company did a survey of each house to get a list
of appliances.

In Twickenham the conversion was from DC to AC c.1950. I don't think
the voltage changed.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

In article , Andrew
Gabriel wrote:
However, GEC's light bulb manufacture (GEC Osram) was
transfered back to the Germans sometime in the 1980's,
having originally been a German company anyway.
I was working for (a different part of) GEC through the
1980's, and when this happened, we stopped being able
to get Osram lamps on staff discount.

Slight digression here, GEC had to become independent of Osram during
WW1. Our then church secretary Clifford (later Sir Clifford) Paterson
was headhunted to become the founder of the GEC Research Laboratories,
first at Hammersmith then in a newly built facility at Wembley. See
http://www.twickenhamurc.org.uk/whoswho.htm (end of page)

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:51:28 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Steve Firth wrote:

I'm not familiar with GEC bulbs

You'll find them sold with a GE logo in the USA.

Again, are you *quite* sure? My recollection is that GE-branded bulbs for
the US market were primarily manufactured in the US.

I believe this is still correct for incandescent lamps and
linear fluorescent lamps. Most of the GE-brand compact
fluorescent lamps sold in the US come from a very large
factory in SW Hungary with an increasing share from China.
I'm not sure about GE-brand HID lamps, but I think most are
still made in the US. Certain HID types, such as arcstream,
were developed by Thorn and made in the UK (Leicester) when
I last worked for GE. I believe that manufacturing for other
Thorn-developed lamps, such as the 2-D, is done in the US,
at least for US-distributed product.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, TKM wrote:
Oh, that's interesting. I can see how an appliance such as an electric
stove could be wired to work on either 120 or 240; but how could a
toaster, fan or light bulbs, for that matter, be reworked for a
different voltage especially if the process involved just a few volts?
Seems like a transformer would be needed for each device.

IIRC devices that used a transformer, e.g. a radio, would have multiple
taps, and a voltage selector somewhere round the back. Usually the
voltage selector took the form of a removable jumper, with a variety of
positions (200V, 210V, 220V, 230V, 240V) arranged in a semi-circle
around the common connector, and perhaps 110V as well. My memory of
these is pretty hazy - no doubt someone can dig up a photo from
somewhere.

Of course it has to be remembered that each household then had *very*
few electrical appliances compared with today.

--
Mike Barnes

Thanks to the several of you who passed along information. Fascinating
stuff.

Does anyone remember the Niagara flicker? Power supplied to the Niagara
Falls, Canada area until sometime in the 1950s was generated by one of the
original Falls hydro plants at 25 Hz (I think). The flicker was very
apparent. Motors and transformers were massive and the hum from
electromagnetic devices was a rumble.

Terry McGowan

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:01:19 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Andrew
Gabriel wrote:
Electricity company did a survey of each house to get a list
of appliances.

In Twickenham the conversion was from DC to AC c.1950. I don't think
the voltage changed.

I was once given a beautiful brass timeswitch from a GPO telephone
box. It had been used in East Durham, where the supply was 30 c/s at
about 200 V. I believe the supply came from nearby collieries, which
generated thir own power and fed a few "customers".
--
Frank Erskine

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Chris Bacon wrote:

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Chris Bacon wrote:

Some of the best stuff in the world is made in the PRC.

Hooboy. Here we go again.

Where are you posting from?

sci.engr.lighting .

I'm in uk.d-i-y. Have you had, erm, *discussions* about Things Coming
From China?

Yes. They've ranged all over the place, from disgust at counterfeiting and
disregard for safety to accusations of racism. The topic has been done to
death.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Victor Roberts wrote:

Most of the GE-brand compact fluorescent lamps sold in the US come from
a very large factory in SW Hungary with an increasing share from China.

I haven't seen a Hungarian GE CFL in years. Haven't looked at anything
other than their mass-market consumer line, but it's been at least five
years since I saw any such a lamp made anywhere other than China.

I'm not sure about GE-brand HID lamps, but I think most are still made
in the US. Certain HID types, such as arcstream, were developed by Thorn
and made in the UK (Leicester) when I last worked for GE. I believe that
manufacturing for other Thorn-developed lamps, such as the 2-D, is done
in the US, at least for US-distributed product.

A lot of really innovative stuff came out of Thorn, as it seems to me.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, TKM wrote:

Does anyone remember the Niagara flicker? Power supplied to the Niagara
Falls, Canada area until sometime in the 1950s was generated by one of
the original Falls hydro plants at 25 Hz (I think). The flicker was
very apparent. Motors and transformers were massive and the hum from
electromagnetic devices was a rumble.

25Hz is correct. The last 25Hz pockets of Canada were converted to 60Hz
surprisingly recently, though the exact date slips my mind. I have an old
console radio/record player bearing overlay labelling saying it's been
converted.

DS

In article ich.edu,
Daniel J. Stern wrote:
A lot of really innovative stuff came out of Thorn, as it seems to me.

Yup. Including Benny Hill. They were a part owner of Thames TV.

--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:43:11 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Victor Roberts wrote:

Most of the GE-brand compact fluorescent lamps sold in the US come from
a very large factory in SW Hungary with an increasing share from China.

I haven't seen a Hungarian GE CFL in years. Haven't looked at anything
other than their mass-market consumer line, but it's been at least five
years since I saw any such a lamp made anywhere other than China.

I retired from GE less than 5 years ago and their CFL
factory in Nagykanizsa was very healthy. You may be looking
at consumer grade spiral lamps, which I believe are mostly
sourced from China. Commercial grade pin-base and screw-base
BIAX (single, double, triple and quad) are still made in
Hungary as far as I know.

I'm not sure about GE-brand HID lamps, but I think most are still made
in the US. Certain HID types, such as arcstream, were developed by Thorn
and made in the UK (Leicester) when I last worked for GE. I believe that
manufacturing for other Thorn-developed lamps, such as the 2-D, is done
in the US, at least for US-distributed product.

A lot of really innovative stuff came out of Thorn, as it seems to me.

I agree.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

BillB@abc .net wrote:
This is the first post to get this number of replies since I have been
monitoring the group, can we have more posting from the UK please.

You'll note that the message was posted to three groups, so we have no
way of telling which you are referring to

alex

"Victor Roberts" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:51:28 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Steve Firth wrote:

I'm not familiar with GEC bulbs

You'll find them sold with a GE logo in the USA.

Again, are you *quite* sure? My recollection is that GE-branded bulbs for
the US market were primarily manufactured in the US.

I believe this is still correct for incandescent lamps and
linear fluorescent lamps. Most of the GE-brand compact
fluorescent lamps sold in the US come from a very large
factory in SW Hungary with an increasing share from China.
I'm not sure about GE-brand HID lamps, but I think most are
still made in the US. Certain HID types, such as arcstream,
were developed by Thorn and made in the UK (Leicester) when
I last worked for GE. I believe that manufacturing for other
Thorn-developed lamps, such as the 2-D, is done in the US,
at least for US-distributed product.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com

That's mostly correct. GE household lamps that I've purchased recently are
marked "Assembled in the USA", "Made in Mexico" and "Made in Canada". GE
has a large high-speed A-line lamp plant in Winchester, VA and another near
Toronto; but even with a high degree of automation which has kept the costs
in those plants low for years, the China facilities are likely to eventually
have lower costs. No doubt GE is developing consumer lamp capacity around
the world though since I've even seen A-line lamps marked "Made in Hungary".
Those were obviously from the former Tungsram factories and had lovely brass
bases -- something we don't see much of in the US.

I heard recently that the Leicester plant had been closed.

Terry McGowan

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Sawney Beane wrote:

The bayonet bulbs I've found in Japanese and American cars require
more force. If the glass were as thin as an A19's

...it is. Thinner, in some cases.

The subject interests me and I don't know where to find glass
thicknesses listed. The glass on an A19 seems more fragile than
the glass on taillight bulbs. I suppose to be eqally strong it
would have to be thicker as a function of its size.

I *think* thinner glass is a way to reduce stresses from heating.
I *think* a bayonet bulb is likely to be subjected to more
mechanical stress when installed and removed. But I don't know how
much the British equivalent of a 100W A19 weights, and I don't know
if all American A19s weigh about 28 grams.

Owain wrote:

Sawney Beane wrote:
If the UK and America used the same mains voltage, lamps from one
place could be plugged in in the other. Then the UN could hold a
referendum to determine which bulb base was perferred. People who
continued to use the other kind would of course be fined.

USA hasn't signed up to Kyoto, why would it agree to fine people who use
the wrong sort of lightbulbs.

Owain

For the first time in history, America has a president and a vice
president from the same industry. It is now clear that they had a
much better plan than Kyoto. Why impose a system of finagling and
red tape? The American method of reducing greenhouse emissions is
to let the energy companies charge a markup of 300% or so.

If Jerry Falwell can make a theological case against bayonet bulbs,
I'm sure Fox News will be able to convince the American people of
the necessity of fining he British.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Victor Roberts wrote:

I haven't seen a Hungarian GE CFL in years. Haven't looked at anything
other than their mass-market consumer line, but it's been at least five
years since I saw any such a lamp made anywhere other than China.

I retired from GE less than 5 years ago and their CFL factory in
Nagykanizsa was very healthy. You may be looking at consumer grade
spiral lamps, which I believe are mostly sourced from China.

Yep, all the spiral lamps, but also the (consumer-market) pin-base units
I've seen in the last 5 years or so have been Chinese.

A lot of really innovative stuff came out of Thorn, as it seems to me.

I agree.

They made what was probably the world's best H4 for awhile there.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:00:43 -0500,it is alleged that Sawney Beane
spake thusly:

[snip]

I *think* thinner glass is a way to reduce stresses from heating.
I *think* a bayonet bulb is likely to be subjected to more
mechanical stress when installed and removed. But I don't know how
much the British equivalent of a 100W A19 weights, and I don't know
if all American A19s weigh about 28 grams.

A standard 100w GLS lamp of store's own brand [Safeway, showing how
long we've had it] weighs 30g (+/- 2g accuracy of the electronic
scales).

GLS is General Lighting Service, roughly equivalent to US A19 size.

A 60w ES (E27) lamp weighed the same within accuracy limits.

--
There are three things which I consider excellent advice. First, don't
smoke to excess. Second, don't drink to excess.
Third, don't marry to excess.
- Mark Twain

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Sawney Beane wrote:

The bayonet bulbs I've found in Japanese and American cars require
more force. If the glass were as thin as an A19's

...it is. Thinner, in some cases.

The subject interests me and I don't know where to find glass
thicknesses listed. The glass on an A19 seems more fragile than
the glass on taillight bulbs.

Surely. Because it's larger!

Chip wrote...
I *think* thinner glass is a way to reduce stresses from heating.
I *think* a bayonet bulb is likely to be subjected to more
mechanical stress when installed and removed. But I don't know how
much the British equivalent of a 100W A19 weights, and I don't know
if all American A19s weigh about 28 grams.

A standard 100w GLS lamp of store's own brand [Safeway, showing how
long we've had it] weighs 30g (+/- 2g accuracy of the electronic
scales).

100W Osram GLS - made in France - is also 30g on my mechanical dietary
scales.

I suspect that ES lamps are likely to be subjected to more stress on
installation than BC. Not because they need to be but because most people
will screw them down tightly (in the same way thet they over tighten their
taps (AKA faucets) when turning off - to the ruination of tap washers).
Stress on a BC lamp is limited by the contact spring pressure and there is
no temptation to apply any more force once you have rotated the couple of
degrees necessary to engage the pins.

David

In article ,
Frank Erskine writes:

I was once given a beautiful brass timeswitch from a GPO telephone
box. It had been used in East Durham, where the supply was 30 c/s at
about 200 V. I believe the supply came from nearby collieries, which
generated thir own power and fed a few "customers".

It was very common for large industrial concerns to generate
their own electricity. Where large motors where driven, often
lower frequencies were used. 16 2/3rds Hz was a frequency used
by some very large motors.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:28:38 GMT, "TKM"
wrote:



That's mostly correct. GE household lamps that I've purchased recently are
marked "Assembled in the USA", "Made in Mexico" and "Made in Canada". GE
has a large high-speed A-line lamp plant in Winchester, VA and another near
Toronto; but even with a high degree of automation which has kept the costs
in those plants low for years, the China facilities are likely to eventually
have lower costs. No doubt GE is developing consumer lamp capacity around
the world though since I've even seen A-line lamps marked "Made in Hungary".
Those were obviously from the former Tungsram factories and had lovely brass
bases -- something we don't see much of in the US.

Terry - according to informal conversations I have had with
various people, one reason that incandescent and linear
fluorescent lamps sold by GE in the US continue to come
mostly from North America is that the cost of shipping via
ocean freighter is more a function of volume than weight.
And, the value per unit volume of both incandescent lamps
and linear fluorescent lamps is so low that the lower
manufacturing costs in China are overridden by the high
shipping costs. I don't know if this is still true, or in
fact, was ever true.

I heard recently that the Leicester plant had been closed.

I knew that research & engineering staff were being laid
off, but did not know they also closed the manufacturing
lines.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

Clive Mitchell wrote:

Hmm, I guess Leyden might look a bit more correcter.

It really is named after the town Leiden...


Thomas

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Sawney Beane wrote:

The bayonet bulbs I've found in Japanese and American cars require more
force. If the glass were as thin as an A19's

...it is. Thinner, in some cases.

The subject interests me and I don't know where to find glass
thicknesses listed. The glass on an A19 seems more fragile than
the glass on taillight bulbs.

Surely. Because it's larger!


Glass thicknesses for lamp bulbs will be difficult information to find.
Worse yet, there are numerous kinds of glass. It's likely that glass used
in GLS lamps is not the same kind used for small automotive types. When I
looked into lamp glass types several years ago for a project involving the
UV emissions of fluorescent lamps, I found that even US and European glass,
although nominally the same, was different because of the impurities in the
raw materials -- iron in the case of fluorescent types that I looked at.

Terry McGowan

Owain wrote:

Sawney Beane wrote:
If Jerry Falwell can make a theological case against bayonet bulbs,

Can he?

He made the case that the Teletubbies were secretly promoting a
homosexual lifestyle to unsuspecting toddlers.


He should get together with John Prescott and form the Let There Be
Light (but only energy efficient and installed by a self-certificating
electrician in a special location) Ministry.

Owain

David Lee wrote:

Chip wrote...
I *think* thinner glass is a way to reduce stresses from heating.
I *think* a bayonet bulb is likely to be subjected to more
mechanical stress when installed and removed. But I don't know how
much the British equivalent of a 100W A19 weights, and I don't know
if all American A19s weigh about 28 grams.

A standard 100w GLS lamp of store's own brand [Safeway, showing how
long we've had it] weighs 30g (+/- 2g accuracy of the electronic
scales).

100W Osram GLS - made in France - is also 30g on my mechanical dietary
scales.

There goes my theory. The next step is to increase my household
voltage so I can try out some British lamps. What voltge will I need?


I suspect that ES lamps are likely to be subjected to more stress on
installation than BC. Not because they need to be but because most people
will screw them down tightly (in the same way thet they over tighten their
taps (AKA faucets) when turning off - to the ruination of tap washers).

A tap might require a lot of force depending on the condition of
the washer, seat, and threads. If a particular tap doesn't require
much force, people may overtighten it if other taps tend to drip.

If taillight bulbs had threaded bases, people would probably set
them very tight for fear that they would vibrate loose. Screw-in
flashlight bulbs may require a lot of torque to set them tight
enough not to jiggle loose. In America they have been uncommon for
decades. Instead, a theaded plastic fitting presses the bulb into
the socket. I think people tend not to overtighten the plastic
fittings because the friction feels sufficient without much torque.

Like those plastic fittings, most American bulb sockets seem to
have elasticity so that it doesn't take much force to tighten bulbs
to the point where friction will keep them secure.

I remember a porcelain ceiling socket in my sister's house where
bulbs tended to stick twenty years ago. Bulbs would squeak when
being screwed in and out, indicating that the threads were rubbing
the porcelain. The threads felt loose until the bulb suddenly
bottomed out. Maybe something was missing from the socket, or
maybe it was a bad design. The socket may have been installed when
household electricity was a novelty in this area. As consumers
become familiar with problems unscrewing bulbs, they will buy more
of the sockets that work well and fewer of those that don't.

Stress on a BC lamp is limited by the contact spring pressure and there is
no temptation to apply any more force once you have rotated the couple of
degrees necessary to engage the pins.

For good contact, the metal base of the bulb should be pushing
upward on the sleeve of the socket and down on the contacts at the
bottom. If I want a downward force of a pound and the threads have
a pitch of 1/10 and the glass has twice the diameter of the base, I
can get my pound by twisting the glass with a force of 1/20 pound,
excluding friction. I'd have to add 1/2 pound times the
metal-on-metal coefficient of friction in the theads. If that
coefficient is about 1/10, I can tighten the bulb by twisting the
glass with force of 1/10 pound.

With a bayonet, I'll have to push with more than a pound to
compress the spring past the point where it will be holding the
bulb in. If the contacts on the bulb and those in the base are
bumps, it may take more than a pound to twist the bulb. If it's a
combination brake-and-taillight bulb, I may have to take it out and
rotate it half a turn. First I'll have to apply more torque to see
if the lugs will find the slots. So maybe I'll have to twist the
glass with a pound while pushing down with more than a pound.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:24:19 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Victor Roberts wrote:

I haven't seen a Hungarian GE CFL in years. Haven't looked at anything
other than their mass-market consumer line, but it's been at least five
years since I saw any such a lamp made anywhere other than China.

I retired from GE less than 5 years ago and their CFL factory in
Nagykanizsa was very healthy. You may be looking at consumer grade
spiral lamps, which I believe are mostly sourced from China.

Yep, all the spiral lamps, but also the (consumer-market) pin-base units
I've seen in the last 5 years or so have been Chinese.

I just returned from our local hardware store in the tiny
village of Burnt Hills in upstate NY. They sell GE CFLs in
individual blister packs designed to be hung from display
hooks, so they are mote definitely consumer products. The GE
screw-base triple-BIAX and the screw-base A-line CFL are
marked Made in Hungary. The GE screw-base globe lamp was
marked Made in China.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

On Tue 29 Nov 2005 00:39:59, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
k

1960.
The range was mostly from 200V to 250V before that.

The frequency had been standardised at 50Hz by 1932,
as a result of the 1926 Electricity Supply Act which
provided for the creation of the National Grid to
connect all the generating plant together. The Grid
cost œ27M to setup, which was paid for in savings
resulting from replacing older inefficient generators
with substation connections to the grid, and the
reduction in total spare generating plant required.
It cost a further œ17M to convert those areas which
were not on 50Hz, so they could be attached to the
Grid. The grid has been upgraded twice by superimposing
a Supergrid on top of it in 1940's and 1960's.


And as we are looking back, do you know when the UK went from round
pins mains sockets to square pins?

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005, Victor Roberts wrote:

I just returned from our local hardware store in the tiny village of
Burnt Hills in upstate NY. They sell GE CFLs in individual blister packs
designed to be hung from display hooks, so they are mote definitely
consumer products. The GE screw-base triple-BIAX and the screw-base
A-line CFL are marked Made in Hungary.

Fascinating! I'll look again.

JS formulated on Wednesday :
And as we are looking back, do you know when the UK went from round
pins mains sockets to square pins?

I heard that 13 amp style plugs were introduced as early as during the
war, as an economy measure - initially round pin version with a fuse as
one of the pins. I don't think they achieved any popularity until the
early '60, with the rectangular pinned version.


--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
JS wrote:
And as we are looking back, do you know when the UK went from round
pins mains sockets to square pins?

They're actually rectangular, not square.

It didn't happen overnight. The 13 amp final ring circuit came into being
just after WW2.

--
*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave wrote:

We've been using screw-in (ES) type bulbs over here ever since Edison
invented the damn thing.

Well, the Yanks have dumbed down so many things over the years

I'm surprised to read about polarized plugs. In the Netherlands, plugs
are symmetrical and the only 'odd' connection is earth ground.

Neutral and phase wall wiring does have colors, and it is the phase that
is switched have different wire colors, but there is no attempt made at
polarization.

What is it used for in the US? Extra safety or lower cost?


Thomas

Zak wrote:
Dave wrote:

We've been using screw-in (ES) type bulbs over here ever since Edison
invented the damn thing.


Well, the Yanks have dumbed down so many things over the years


I'm surprised to read about polarized plugs. In the Netherlands, plugs
are symmetrical and the only 'odd' connection is earth ground.

Neutral and phase wall wiring does have colors, and it is the phase that
is switched have different wire colors, but there is no attempt made at
polarization.

In the US, the neutral is always white, or in large sizes, the ends must
be painted white. Red and blue as well as black are often used for "hot"
wires, and the safety ground is always green or bare in cables.

What is it used for in the US? Extra safety or lower cost?

The original idea was to keep the most exposed, (screw base of lamps),
connected to the neutral wire. Three pin plugs do this if they and the
sockets are wired properly. The "two slot" part of the "two slot one
pin" socket has one of the slots narrower than the other, and recent two
slot plugs are made this way. However there are still many equal sized,
two blade plugs which will fit the socket's slots either way.

Fittings are made with "silver" and "brass" colored screws, the "silver"
one connecting to the white, (neutral), wire and the "brass" to the hot,
wire. With 3 wire fixtures there is also a safety ground, (earth),
usually green in color. The US codes do not allow a green wire to be
used for anything but a safety ground.

There is a tendency towards "double insulated" small appliances and
tools, which must have additional insulation between any possible
exposed parts and the mains. Some claim this is safer. A metallic
housing drill is normally connected to a safety ground, but one could
argue that an insulated case might be better if you were to drill into a
"hot" wire!

--
Virg Wall, P.E.

In article ,
JS writes:

And as we are looking back, do you know when the UK went from round
pins mains sockets to square pins?

Started in 1946, but transition was mostly through the 1950's.

However, the round pin sockets have never been removed from
the UK wiring regs and are still permitted and available
even today. They tend to be used for special purposes, e.g.
where you deliberately don't want interchangability with
standard mains plugs and sockets or where you specifically
don't want a fuse in a plug (stage lighting). Several other
countries still use the UK round pin sockets as their standard
socket outlets.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I heard that 13 amp style plugs were introduced as early as during the
war, as an economy measure - initially round pin version with a fuse as
one of the pins. I don't think they achieved any popularity until the
early '60, with the rectangular pinned version.

The type of plug you describe - D&S - ran side by side with the 'normal'
13 amp type. It was favoured by some councils for their estates. It's a
very dangerous design, though. There's also Walsall gauge which is similar
to a normal 13 amp but with all the pins at 90 degrees to the normal.
You'll see these in use in some tube stations.

--
*Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.