Hi

i am about to replace my conventional boiler so at the same time i am looking to improve my system.

We have a storage tank in the airing cupboard with the pump below it. When our boiler kicks in it heats the water AND the radiators. We have no control of this, in the summer we just turn all the radiators off. In the winter when we need the heating on all day our hot water boils all day aswell!.
We also dont have any room thermostat either.

1. Can i fit a y valve to control heating/water ?
2. do i have to pull cables in to control the valve?
3. i want to fit a wireless thermostat, are these any good?



any other tips or suggestions much appreciated

Daz

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dbroms wrote:

Hi

i am about to replace my conventional boiler so at the same time i am
looking to improve my system.

We have a storage tank in the airing cupboard with the pump below it.
When our boiler kicks in it heats the water AND the radiators. We have
no control of this, in the summer we just turn all the radiators off.
In the winter when we need the heating on all day our hot water boils
all day aswell!.
We also dont have any room thermostat either.

1. Can i fit a y valve to control heating/water ?

I assume from what you say that the CH and HW circuits are *both* pumped,
rather than the HW relying on gravity (convection) circulation? If so, you
will probably have a T-piece in the airing cupboard, just above the pump,
with one branch going to the heating coil in the HW cylinder and the other
branch going to the radiators. If this is the case, you can replace the
T-piece with a 3-port mid-position valve and convert your system into a
Y-Plan.

2. do i have to pull cables in to control the valve?

Yes. The most convenient arrangement is usually to have a wiring centre -
which is a fancy name for a 10-way juncion box - mounted in the airing
cupboard. This needs to have cables going to:
* Programmer
* Boiler
* Pump
* Mid-position valve
* Cylinder stat
* Room stat (or base unit thereof if you're using a wireless room stat)

Assuming a wireless stat, everything except the boiler could be in the
airing cupboard - so the only cable of any length will be the one from the
wiring centre to the boiler.


3. i want to fit a wireless thermostat, are these any good?

I've never used one, but a lot of people here have - and generally give good
reports of them. The wireless feature usually goes with a programmable stat
such as the Honeywell CM67 RF - which allows you to have different
temperatures set at different times of day. If you use a programmable room
stat in conjunction with a conventional timer, the usual trick is to set CH
to constant on the basic timer, and let the stat do the timing for that -
but use the timer for timing the hot water.

any other tips or suggestions much appreciated

Have a look at http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm which shows
the basic pipe layout and electrical wiring for a number of heating 'plans'.
Study the Y-Plan bit in depth.

While you're at it, also have a look at the S-Plan. This achieves the same
thing as a Y-Plan, but uses two 2-port valves rather one 3-port valve. It is
slightly more expensive to implement but many people believe that it is
technically superior, and less prone to failure. [3-port valves occupy a
very strategic position in Y-Plan systems, and can be very temperamental at
times].
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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dbroms wrote in
:
We also dont have any room thermostat either.

1. Can i fit a y valve to control heating/water ?

Yes, but we need to know more - can you do simple wiring and pipework,
using compression fittings if you don't like to solder; and simple (but
mains, so you need to be competent) wiring?

2. do i have to pull cables in to control the valve?

Possibly not, I think the services you need will be there or thereabouts.
You'll need a controller near the valve, which is usually near the pump.
The wires to your boiler exist, I presume it's fired by the cylinder stat.

3. i want to fit a wireless thermostat, are these any good?

You'll need a cable to a room stat, I guess not if you use a wireless one,
but I've no experience of them.

There's plenty more experienced folks than me here, but they'll all need
answers to the above, so post them and they'll be right on your case ;o)

mike

Hi guys

many thanks for the replies. I am still trying to fully understand what system i have at the moment. I think i have pumped central heating and gravity hot water.
After the pump the pipe splits into two, one goes to the coil inside my storage tank and the other (25mm) i assume goes to my radiators.
I dont seem to have a stat on the tank, the only thing i can find is on the coil outlet from the tank i have what looks like a trv valve with a thermocouple wire from it which goes to an aluminium block strapped to the tank.

I have been reading on here and people seem to convert to a C plan arrangement.

Why cant i just fit a 3 way valve after the pump?

I am sorry for what might seem basic questions but this gets more and more confusing the more i read.

Thanks

Daz

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dbroms wrote:


Hi guys

many thanks for the replies. I am still trying to fully understand
what system i have at the moment. I think i have pumped central
heating and gravity hot water.
After the pump the pipe splits into two, one goes to the coil inside
my storage tank and the other (25mm) i assume goes to my radiators.

If this is *after* the pump, it means that the water going to the HW coil
has been through the pump - same as the CH water. If this is the case, your
system is fully pumped - and *not* gravity hot water.

I dont seem to have a stat on the tank, the only thing i can find is
on the coil outlet from the tank i have what looks like a trv valve
with a thermocouple wire from it which goes to an aluminium block
strapped to the tank.

That sounds like a device which shuts off the (pumped) flow to the heating
coil when the HW is up to temperature - to avoid over-heating the HW when
the CH is on.

I have been reading on here and people seem to convert to a C plan
arrangement.

C-Plan is only applicable to a gravity HW system, and that doesn't seem to
be what you've got!

Why cant i just fit a 3 way valve after the pump?

No reason at all. [Unless you take up my earlier idea of going for an S-Plan
system by putting a 2-port valve in each branch, instead]

I am sorry for what might seem basic questions but this gets more and
more confusing the more i read.

OK, just to be *sure* what you've got: Are there ever any circumstances when
the boiler fires but the pump doesn't run? Can you get at the wiring to see
how the boiler and pump are wired? If so, are they connected together so as
always to work in unison?

The answers to those questions should confirm - or otherwise - that you have
a fully pumped system.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
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thanks for the reply. The pump is always on when the boiler fires, you never have just the boiler on.
The pump connects to a very small junction box in the airing cupboard which just has a live and a neutral in it which i assume comes straight from the boiler.

cheers
Daz

dbroms wrote:[color=blue][i]
Set Square Wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dbroms wrote:


OK, just to be *sure* what you've got: Are there ever any
circumstances when
the boiler fires but the pump doesn't run?
The answers to those questions should confirm - or otherwise - that you
have
a fully pumped system.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


thanks for the reply. The pump is always on when the boiler fires, you
never have just the boiler on.
The pump connects to a very small junction box in the airing cupboard
which just has a live and a neutral in it which i assume comes straight
from the boiler.

cheers
Daz

This doesn't prove that the HW isn't gravity fed - as from what I
understand from the system as you describe it, there is no option to
have just the HW heating, i.e. when the heating is on it is always
heating both the HW and the radiators...am I right?

The only way to really know is to look at where the flow to the HWC
comes from - in a gravity set up it would usually come directly from the
boiler in a seperate pipe to the flow to the radiators, but it could
technically branch off at some point before the pump. If it is T'd off
at any point after the pump and the sytem is fully pumped.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Richard Conway wrote:
[color=blue][i]
dbroms wrote:
Set Square Wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dbroms wrote:


OK, just to be *sure* what you've got: Are there ever any
circumstances when
the boiler fires but the pump doesn't run?
The answers to those questions should confirm - or otherwise - that
you have
a fully pumped system.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


thanks for the reply. The pump is always on when the boiler fires,
you never have just the boiler on.
The pump connects to a very small junction box in the airing cupboard
which just has a live and a neutral in it which i assume comes
straight from the boiler.

cheers
Daz

This doesn't prove that the HW isn't gravity fed - as from what I
understand from the system as you describe it, there is no option to
have just the HW heating, i.e. when the heating is on it is always
heating both the HW and the radiators...am I right?

The only way to really know is to look at where the flow to the HWC
comes from - in a gravity set up it would usually come directly from
the boiler in a seperate pipe to the flow to the radiators, but it
could technically branch off at some point before the pump. If it is
T'd off at any point after the pump and the sytem is fully pumped.

According to what he said earlier, it's tee'd off *after* the pump - so I'm
reasonably convinced that it's fully pumped - but the OP still didn't seem
quite sure. The supplementary questions were to help *him* convince himself!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Set Square wrote:[color=blue][i]
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Richard Conway wrote:


dbroms wrote:

Set Square Wrote:


In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
dbroms wrote:


OK, just to be *sure* what you've got: Are there ever any
circumstances when
the boiler fires but the pump doesn't run?
The answers to those questions should confirm - or otherwise - that
you have
a fully pumped system.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


thanks for the reply. The pump is always on when the boiler fires,
you never have just the boiler on.
The pump connects to a very small junction box in the airing cupboard
which just has a live and a neutral in it which i assume comes
straight from the boiler.

cheers
Daz

This doesn't prove that the HW isn't gravity fed - as from what I
understand from the system as you describe it, there is no option to
have just the HW heating, i.e. when the heating is on it is always
heating both the HW and the radiators...am I right?

The only way to really know is to look at where the flow to the HWC
comes from - in a gravity set up it would usually come directly from
the boiler in a seperate pipe to the flow to the radiators, but it
could technically branch off at some point before the pump. If it is
T'd off at any point after the pump and the sytem is fully pumped.


According to what he said earlier, it's tee'd off *after* the pump - so I'm
reasonably convinced that it's fully pumped - but the OP still didn't seem
quite sure. The supplementary questions were to help *him* convince himself!

Oops. Missed that bit. I'll shut up now.