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  #1   Report Post  
James Amor
 
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Default Bathroom Repair/Aquapanel advice

Hi,

I'm refitting a bathroom that has had serious water damage to the
plasterwork behind the tiles in the shower end of the bath (failed grout....
years ago!). To minimise disruption to the bathroom I was thinking of
knocking off the knackered plaster (back to the brick), fixing aquapanel
onto the brickwork, and then tiling onto the aquapanel.

My problem is - I've spoken to the manufacturers of aquapanel, who are
adamant that it must be applied to batons (drylined), but they have not
explained why it can't be done any other way. This causes me a problem as
the bathroom is only 2m square, so drylining will take up precious space.

My question is - can anyone see a problem with (or had experience with)
using an adhesive and plugs/screws at 400mm centres to fix the aquapanel
straight to the brickwork? Aquapanel instructions are to fasten it at 600mm
centres, so adhesive plus smaller centres should be belt and braces
shouldn't it, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
James


  #2   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
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Default

James Amor wrote:

My problem is - I've spoken to the manufacturers of aquapanel, who are
adamant that it must be applied to batons (drylined), but they have not
explained why it can't be done any other way. This causes me a problem as
the bathroom is only 2m square, so drylining will take up precious space.


Have you thought of simply rendering the wall using a sand cement mortar
with some waterproof admixture in it, and then tiling straight onto that?

That is (sort of) what I did with mine, although onto ply rather than brick:

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/shower.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #3   Report Post  
James Amor
 
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Default

"John Rumm" wrote:
Have you thought of simply rendering the wall using a sand cement mortar
with some waterproof admixture in it, and then tiling straight onto that?


I had thought about it, but I'd like to keep the amount of time the bathroom
is out of use to a minimum and I don't really want to have to wait for
render to dry. Also, I'm not sure if I could manage to get it flat enough to
tile!

James


  #4   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

James Amor wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote:
Have you thought of simply rendering the wall using a sand cement mortar
with some waterproof admixture in it, and then tiling straight onto that?


I had thought about it, but I'd like to keep the amount of time the bathroom
is out of use to a minimum and I don't really want to have to wait for
render to dry.


It would only take a week, and tiling onto render as JR suggests
is far better than tiling onto gypsum plaster for this situation.


Also, I'm not sure if I could manage to get it flat enough to
tile!


Easy peasy, do it in sections if you really need to, or get a
plasterer to do it (after you've done the prep.).
  #5   Report Post  
John Rumm
 
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Default

James Amor wrote:

Have you thought of simply rendering the wall using a sand cement mortar
with some waterproof admixture in it, and then tiling straight onto that?



I had thought about it, but I'd like to keep the amount of time the bathroom
is out of use to a minimum and I don't really want to have to wait for


The render need not be that thick, so will be dry enough to tile in a
couple of days.

render to dry. Also, I'm not sure if I could manage to get it flat enough to
tile!


Do like I did and cheat ;-)

Stick a batten either side to set the depth, then all you need do is
slap the stuff up and rule it off against the battens. Once you are
happy that it is level enough (final tweaking can be done at adhesive
spreading time), let it go off a bit and pop the battens out, and fill
in the gaps.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


  #6   Report Post  
Andrew Gabriel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
James Amor wrote:

I had thought about it, but I'd like to keep the amount of time the bathroom
is out of use to a minimum and I don't really want to have to wait for


The render need not be that thick, so will be dry enough to tile in a
couple of days.


IME, it will need longer than that. Tile adhesives usually specify
the background must be completely dry.

render to dry. Also, I'm not sure if I could manage to get it flat enough to
tile!


Do like I did and cheat ;-)

Stick a batten either side to set the depth, then all you need do is
slap the stuff up and rule it off against the battens. Once you are
happy that it is level enough (final tweaking can be done at adhesive
spreading time), let it go off a bit and pop the battens out, and fill
in the gaps.


Also, after the first stage cement setting is complete (~12 - 24 hours),
you can go over the surface with a wooden or plastic float to "sand" it
flat if you didn't manage to lay it down flat in the first place.
This won't give you a polished surface (actually, it will destroy any
polished surface you have), but it will be fine for tiling over.

--
Andrew Gabriel
  #7   Report Post  
Chris Bacon
 
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Default

John Rumm wrote:
( rendering )
Stick a batten either side to set the depth, then all you need do is
slap the stuff up and rule it off against the battens. Once you are
happy that it is level enough (final tweaking can be done at adhesive
spreading time), let it go off a bit and pop the battens out, and fill
in the gaps.


You can also just fill alternate bays, let it go off,
remove battens, and fill in in between. As you say,
it's a good cheat.
  #8   Report Post  
Vaci
 
Posts: n/a
Default

James Amor wrote:
My question is - can anyone see a problem with (or had experience with)
using an adhesive and plugs/screws at 400mm centres to fix the aquapanel
straight to the brickwork? Aquapanel instructions are to fasten it at 600mm
centres, so adhesive plus smaller centres should be belt and braces
shouldn't it, or am I missing something?


I've fixed some Aquapanel directly onto a wall like that, and the
problem I found was the rather brittle panels developed stress fractures
anywhere the wall was even slightly out of true. You need the batons
to ensure that the fixing points of the panel are raised away from the
wall, and not causing unfixed areas to bow out and snap.
However, the batons could be very shallow - just a few mm would do.

It's also easier to plane or pack the batons to get a true line if your
wall is wonky, than trying to pack directly behind the aquapanel.

I would agree with fixing the panels at 400mm centres or less; I
noticed the panels would flex at 600mm.

Even so, I was more confident in the surface for tile fixing than onto
plaster, especially as I was replacing a terrible mess where the old
tiles were falling off the soggy, lumpy gypsum coat!

Vaci



  #9   Report Post  
Mr Fizzion
 
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Default

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:22:40 +0100, Vaci
wrote:

I've fixed some Aquapanel directly onto a wall like that, and the
problem I found was the rather brittle panels developed stress fractures
anywhere the wall was even slightly out of true. You need the batons
to ensure that the fixing points of the panel are raised away from the
wall, and not causing unfixed areas to bow out and snap.
However, the batons could be very shallow - just a few mm would do.

It's also easier to plane or pack the batons to get a true line if your
wall is wonky, than trying to pack directly behind the aquapanel.

I would agree with fixing the panels at 400mm centres or less; I
noticed the panels would flex at 600mm.


Hmm, as aquapanel is brittle, can you break it after you have tiled on
top of it - for example by tripping and putting your hand out against
it to steady yourself, or banging some heavy object against it?

Mr F.

  #10   Report Post  
Lobster
 
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Default

Mr Fizzion wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:22:40 +0100, Vaci
wrote:


I've fixed some Aquapanel directly onto a wall like that, and the
problem I found was the rather brittle panels developed stress fractures
anywhere the wall was even slightly out of true. You need the batons
to ensure that the fixing points of the panel are raised away from the
wall, and not causing unfixed areas to bow out and snap.
However, the batons could be very shallow - just a few mm would do.

It's also easier to plane or pack the batons to get a true line if your
wall is wonky, than trying to pack directly behind the aquapanel.

I would agree with fixing the panels at 400mm centres or less; I
noticed the panels would flex at 600mm.


Hmm, as aquapanel is brittle, can you break it after you have tiled on
top of it - for example by tripping and putting your hand out against
it to steady yourself, or banging some heavy object against it?


Hey, cast iron is brittle!

No, providing you've fixed it as per manufacturers instructions it's
very strong; any impact such as you describe would have to be huge, far
greater than needed to cause similar damage to a plasterboard wall. And
if this happened to a tiled plasterboard wall, there would be much more
likelihood of it flexing slightly (with concomitant damage to tile
adhesive/grout, with leaking ensuing) which is why aquapanel is so much
better for showers...!

David


  #11   Report Post  
Vaci
 
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Default

Mr Fizzion wrote:
Hmm, as aquapanel is brittle, can you break it after you have tiled on
top of it - for example by tripping and putting your hand out against
it to steady yourself, or banging some heavy object against it?

Mr F.


It seemed to survive ok once it was in place, and I did try and fall
through it a few times

I guess I should have tried hitting it with a batten. Or a baton.

Vaci


  #12   Report Post  
Simon
 
Posts: n/a
Default


James Amor wrote:
Hi,

I'm refitting a bathroom that has had serious water damage to the
plasterwork behind the tiles in the shower end of the bath (failed grout....
years ago!). To minimise disruption to the bathroom I was thinking of
knocking off the knackered plaster (back to the brick), fixing aquapanel
onto the brickwork, and then tiling onto the aquapanel.

My problem is - I've spoken to the manufacturers of aquapanel, who are
adamant that it must be applied to batons (drylined), but they have not
explained why it can't be done any other way. This causes me a problem as
the bathroom is only 2m square, so drylining will take up precious space.

My question is - can anyone see a problem with (or had experience with)
using an adhesive and plugs/screws at 400mm centres to fix the aquapanel
straight to the brickwork? Aquapanel instructions are to fasten it at 600mm
centres, so adhesive plus smaller centres should be belt and braces
shouldn't it, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
James


Why not use something like these:

http://www.norske-int.co.uk/

instead of tiles? I fitted out a shower cubicle with them recently and
they look really good. They only need to be fitted at the edges, so it
didn't matter that the plaster underneath was in a bad way. One side
was fitted over a stud wall that had big holes where I'd hacked out the
old soggy plasterboard.

  #13   Report Post  
Peter Taylor
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"James Amor" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm refitting a bathroom that has had serious water damage to the
plasterwork behind the tiles in the shower end of the bath (failed
grout....
years ago!). To minimise disruption to the bathroom I was thinking of
knocking off the knackered plaster (back to the brick), fixing aquapanel
onto the brickwork, and then tiling onto the aquapanel.

My problem is - I've spoken to the manufacturers of aquapanel, who are
adamant that it must be applied to batons (drylined), but they have not
explained why it can't be done any other way. This causes me a problem as
the bathroom is only 2m square, so drylining will take up precious space.

My question is - can anyone see a problem with (or had experience with)
using an adhesive and plugs/screws at 400mm centres to fix the aquapanel
straight to the brickwork? Aquapanel instructions are to fasten it at
600mm
centres, so adhesive plus smaller centres should be belt and braces
shouldn't it, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
James


Have a look at WEDI Tilebacker board. It's made of dense styrofoam with
reinforced cement surfaces, so it's much lighter and not so brittle as
Aquapanel, and it's easier to cut. More importantly, it can be fixed with
adhesive direct to bare brick or blockwork.
http://www.wedi.co.uk/flash.htm

Peter

  #14   Report Post  
Lobster
 
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Default

Simon wrote:

Why not use something like these:

http://www.norske-int.co.uk/

instead of tiles? I fitted out a shower cubicle with them recently and
they look really good. They only need to be fitted at the edges, so it
didn't matter that the plaster underneath was in a bad way. One side
was fitted over a stud wall that had big holes where I'd hacked out the
old soggy plasterboard.


What's the cost like versus tiles?

David

  #15   Report Post  
Mr Fizzion
 
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Default

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:50:19 +0100, "Peter Taylor"
wrote:

"James Amor" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm refitting a bathroom that has had serious water damage to the
plasterwork behind the tiles in the shower end of the bath (failed
grout....
years ago!). To minimise disruption to the bathroom I was thinking of
knocking off the knackered plaster (back to the brick), fixing aquapanel
onto the brickwork, and then tiling onto the aquapanel.

My problem is - I've spoken to the manufacturers of aquapanel, who are
adamant that it must be applied to batons (drylined), but they have not
explained why it can't be done any other way. This causes me a problem as
the bathroom is only 2m square, so drylining will take up precious space.

My question is - can anyone see a problem with (or had experience with)
using an adhesive and plugs/screws at 400mm centres to fix the aquapanel
straight to the brickwork? Aquapanel instructions are to fasten it at
600mm
centres, so adhesive plus smaller centres should be belt and braces
shouldn't it, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
James


Have a look at WEDI Tilebacker board. It's made of dense styrofoam with
reinforced cement surfaces, so it's much lighter and not so brittle as
Aquapanel, and it's easier to cut. More importantly, it can be fixed with
adhesive direct to bare brick or blockwork.
http://www.wedi.co.uk/flash.htm

Peter


Wedi board looks nice. However they don't appear to have any online
stockists which makes doing any kind of price comparisons very
difficult. They also don't answer the phone...some companies seem to
want to make things awkward :-(

Mr F.




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Stuart Noble
 
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Default

Mr Fizzion wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:50:19 +0100, "Peter Taylor"
wrote:


"James Amor" wrote in message
...

Hi,

I'm refitting a bathroom that has had serious water damage to the
plasterwork behind the tiles in the shower end of the bath (failed
grout....
years ago!). To minimise disruption to the bathroom I was thinking of
knocking off the knackered plaster (back to the brick), fixing aquapanel
onto the brickwork, and then tiling onto the aquapanel.

My problem is - I've spoken to the manufacturers of aquapanel, who are
adamant that it must be applied to batons (drylined), but they have not
explained why it can't be done any other way. This causes me a problem as
the bathroom is only 2m square, so drylining will take up precious space.

My question is - can anyone see a problem with (or had experience with)
using an adhesive and plugs/screws at 400mm centres to fix the aquapanel
straight to the brickwork? Aquapanel instructions are to fasten it at
600mm
centres, so adhesive plus smaller centres should be belt and braces
shouldn't it, or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
James


Have a look at WEDI Tilebacker board. It's made of dense styrofoam with
reinforced cement surfaces, so it's much lighter and not so brittle as
Aquapanel, and it's easier to cut. More importantly, it can be fixed with
adhesive direct to bare brick or blockwork.
http://www.wedi.co.uk/flash.htm

Peter



Wedi board looks nice. However they don't appear to have any online
stockists which makes doing any kind of price comparisons very
difficult. They also don't answer the phone...some companies seem to
want to make things awkward :-(

Mr F.



I've stuck Aquapanel to brickwork in a kitchen. I used PVA cement mortar
as an adhesive with no fixings, and it worked fine, but the 4 x 4s were
standing on the ground. I would probably use fixings for anything above
that. Heavy stuff.
The styrofoam stuff sounds a better bet though. I'll check that out myself.
  #17   Report Post  
Simon
 
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Lobster wrote:
Simon wrote:

Why not use something like these:

http://www.norske-int.co.uk/

instead of tiles? I fitted out a shower cubicle with them recently and
they look really good. They only need to be fitted at the edges, so it
didn't matter that the plaster underneath was in a bad way. One side
was fitted over a stud wall that had big holes where I'd hacked out the
old soggy plasterboard.


What's the cost like versus tiles?

David


I guess it depends on the price of your tiles! I think the 2400x900
boards we used for our shower were about =A3120 each. You'd need about
200 100mm x 100mm tiles to cover that area, so that would be about 60p
per tile.

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