"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
This man never serviced his gas boiler for 18 years

Care to produce proof? Because I never wrote this.

12 years then. Anyone who does that is a blithering idiot.


No doubt because CORGI says so....

I've asked

irresponsible dross


So it's irresponsible to ask now, wow, that spells the end to this
type of group!

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message

So you want people to haul out their appliances just to isolate them
now....!

Personally I fit a switch above the worktop in these cases.

Having said that, one presumes the reason for isolating the appliance is
so you can carry out maintenance, and you won't be doing much of that
with it in situ either.

The lead on the appliance will be plenty long enough to reach round
(most have 1.8m leads as a minimum) the appliance to the left or

right.

Failing that, mount the socket on the wall behind it.


So you want people to have to haul out two or more appliances if one
needs to be (re)moved ?!....

Place the lead of the middle appliance over the top of the one beside if
youare that bothered by it. It will not be visible under the worktop.

That's a design issue that could be cured in split type plugs though,
the real reason moulded on plugs are used is cost.

So what you are saying that the actual number of accidents caused by
this practice is to all intents and purposes nil, and its cheaper.

What was the problem again?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

:::Jerry:::: wrote:


No, have you never used a FCU to supply a flex to CU wall plate?

Huh? What is a CU wall plate?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Appliance leads very rarely get damaged. You're on about
workshop use
again. It's about time you improved your safety standards
there.


Your taking the p*ss aren't you, has your wife never run over the
vacuum
lead and damaged it, or worn the iron lead through on the ironing
board
etc., she must be one in a million....

Then the fuse blows. If on a radial, you'd have a fire. Unless
using
something like 2.5mm flex.


You really don't understand this do you,

You are correct. He hasn't a clue.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 23:06:19 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:56:34 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:



Tone didn't say it, the IRA did. Even Gerry Adams praised Tone. No
one
since 1969 has managed that.


Praised Tone you mean? I suppose that you would be the only other
one.

I'd never have connected you to Gerry Adams though - Gerry Anderson
would seem more appropriate.

That is right. Tone did a better job than International Rescue.

But who do you think pulls the strings?

Tone.

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

I don't think you/joe public will easily find plug sized cartridge

fuses

with a rating of more than 13A.


Anyone can, any screw of the same dia' of a BS1363 type plug fuse
will do. :~(

BS1362 IIRC. Seems like a good time to let Darwin rule. Personally not
too fussed about it since the things hardly ever blow anyway so the
chances of someone being stupid enough, and having the opportunity to
fiddle a small anyway.

If you are talking about the 32A breaker on the circuit, then that
is
not really relevant since it is not there to protect the appliance
or
its flex, it is there to protect the circuit.



It is if you consider the above...

No, it is there to protect the circuit, that is all.

If a user wishes to override a safety measure further downstream then
that is their look out. You should not be compromising the earlier
circuit design (which will impact all users) just to try and protect
someone who clearly does not want to be protected.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

Hum, 0.75mm flex (2192Y type stuff) is 6A rated. This is the very
common two core oval flex, you can get it in 0.5mm 3A as well...

Yes, and such flexs are limited to 2 or 3 metres so the


Who says, seeing that one can buy it off the real in the DIY sheds.

The lamp or what ever might well come with only two meters of flex,
but who knows if it won't be replaced with a longer length of the
same section.

Your point being what though?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

Our old house, built 1901, had the remains of it's first ever
electrical supply (installed when the house was built...[1]) still in
place under the floor boards - it comprised of bare wire conductors
in porcelain 'clamps' / insulators with twisted / soldered
connections...

Not seen a bare wire install before - plenty of lead, rubber and paper
covered cables though. Although I would guess most places got electric
light a tad later than that.

[1] there was also unused gas pipes to wall lights as well, although
gas was never installed, AIUI the house was one of the first all
electric houses in the town. It was the architects own property so
was probably trying out the new technology but hedging his bets at
the same time!

Could be... just in case this new fangled "electricity" thing never took
off perhaps ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
But then your radial may be limited to supplying only one
appliance...

The FCU buys you nothing really. A socket mounted flush to the wall
will
take far less space than the normal hoses etc. that poke out the
back of
most appliances so that is a bit of a non issue.

So you want people to haul out their appliances just to isolate them
now....!

If they need repair or servicing, I'd prefer unplugging them. Call me old
fashioned. Otherwise, I'm happy to leave them powered up. And having them
wired to an FCU means extra work if they need moving away for any reason.
And makes no sense anyway.

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
You prefer dangling flexes from an FCU? Whatever floats your boat.
snip

No, have you never used a FCU to supply a flex to CU wall plate?

Eh?

For all your talk about having things just so, you seem to be
governed by cost rather than neat and accessible installations - as
you say, whatever floats your boat.

I'll use an FCU for a fixed appliance - like say a cooker hood. Not for
anything that can be moved, like a washing machine.

And cost doesn't even remotely come into the equation in my 'DIY house'.
Just the best and most convenient situation. Electrical accessories cost
pennies in the scheme of things.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

So you want people to haul out their appliances just to isolate them
now....!

If they need repair or servicing, I'd prefer unplugging them. Call me
old fashioned. Otherwise, I'm happy to leave them powered up. And
having them wired to an FCU means extra work if they need moving away
for any reason. And makes no sense anyway.


Dave - you're old fashioned. :-)

But I agree with wanting to unplug.

The issue that gets me is if you go into the kitchen and smell a bit of a
burning smell... (Assuming it's not the toast/boiled over milk/iron/your
pet horrible smelling burning thing.) At least with an accessible switch
you can turn the damn thing off and, hopefully, prevent it getting any
worse.

Hence my choice is an FCU and a socket.

--
Rod

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

Our old house, built 1901, had the remains of it's first ever
electrical supply (installed when the house was built...[1]) still in
place under the floor boards - it comprised of bare wire conductors
in porcelain 'clamps' / insulators with twisted / soldered
connections...

Not seen a bare wire install before - plenty of lead, rubber and paper
covered cables though. Although I would guess most places got electric
light a tad later than that.

Knob and tube wiring was more popular in the US.
There are a number of houses with it still in use!

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Knob and tube wiring was more popular in the US.

Damn, that sounds painful! ;-O)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message

So you want people to haul out their appliances just to isolate
them
now....!

Personally I fit a switch above the worktop in these cases.

Having said that, one presumes the reason for isolating the
appliance is
so you can carry out maintenance, and you won't be doing much of
that
with it in situ either.

No, I suspect many people like to isolate an appliances [1] when not
in use or going away etc.

[1] with the exception of fridges and freezers.


The lead on the appliance will be plenty long enough to reach
round
(most have 1.8m leads as a minimum) the appliance to the left or

right.

Failing that, mount the socket on the wall behind it.


So you want people to have to haul out two or more appliances if
one
needs to be (re)moved ?!....

Place the lead of the middle appliance over the top of the one
beside if
youare that bothered by it. It will not be visible under the
worktop.

Nor will it be accessible, isn't there a regulation that says means
of isolation needs to be accessible?...

"Rod" wrote in message
. 4...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

So you want people to haul out their appliances just to isolate
them
now....!

If they need repair or servicing, I'd prefer unplugging them.
Call me
old fashioned. Otherwise, I'm happy to leave them powered up.
And
having them wired to an FCU means extra work if they need moving
away
for any reason. And makes no sense anyway.


Dave - you're old fashioned. :-)

But I agree with wanting to unplug.
snip

So, an accessible FCU above the worktop and a 3 pin round plug and
socket below - but then I forgot, to Dave (and others) cost and ease
of installation are the governing factors here....

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:


No, have you never used a FCU to supply a flex to CU wall plate?

Huh? What is a CU wall plate?


They have a hole for the flex, with a cored-grip and connection
terminals on the inside.

Without flex they look like RF wall plates and function like cooker
connection plates (although rated less).

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
snip

And cost doesn't even remotely come into the equation in my 'DIY
house'.
Just the best and most convenient situation. Electrical accessories
cost
pennies in the scheme of things.


Well your way seems very *inconvenient* IMO, having to haul out an
appliance just to isolate it...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

Hum, 0.75mm flex (2192Y type stuff) is 6A rated. This is the
very
common two core oval flex, you can get it in 0.5mm 3A as well...

Yes, and such flexs are limited to 2 or 3 metres so the


Who says, seeing that one can buy it off the real in the DIY
sheds.

The lamp or what ever might well come with only two meters of
flex,
but who knows if it won't be replaced with a longer length of the
same section.

Your point being what though?


The poster I replied to seemed to think that as the length of flex on
the lamp (OWE) was only one or two meters as supplied, any
consideration of longer lengths was silly.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

snip

[1] there was also unused gas pipes to wall lights as well,
although
gas was never installed, AIUI the house was one of the first all
electric houses in the town. It was the architects own property
so
was probably trying out the new technology but hedging his bets
at
the same time!

Could be... just in case this new fangled "electricity" thing never
took
off perhaps ;-)


Indeed, there were other parts of the houses design that seemed to be
new to him, all the other 9 houses in the road (designed by him) had
stair cases that ran around one or more outside walls allowing the
house to have a cellar, our house had an internal (central) stair
well and no cellar whilst all houses were built with cavity walls
etc.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
snip


But who do you think pulls the strings?

Tone.


Like hell he does, rolls on his back whilst getting a bush to tickle
his tummy may be...

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Andy Hall
wrote:

I thought Blair was a Tory.... Seems to have most of the
characteristics.

Not in my book. He's just a cleverer commie than most. Dress up
legalised
extortion in a frilly dress and call it a major benefit for
everyone.


That makes Thatcher a member of the 'polite-burro' (sp?) then....

In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
No, I suspect many people like to isolate an appliances [1] when not
in use or going away etc.

[1] with the exception of fridges and freezers.

And the myriad of things that are normally left powered? Cordless phones.
Videos. Clock Radios. Doorbells. Etc.

And all those kitchen appliances with clocks and timers? Think that just
about leaves the washing machine that you might switch off at the mains -
if you don't trust its own on/off switch. ;-)

--
*If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
So, an accessible FCU above the worktop and a 3 pin round plug and
socket below - but then I forgot, to Dave (and others) cost and ease
of installation are the governing factors here....

If I wanted isolating switches for kitchen appliances I'd group them
together using 20 amp DP grid switches, and engrave the panel with which
does what. Much neater than individual FCUs.

And why would you want to hack off a properly fitted plug to replace it
with an obsolescent design? Just to move the fuse to a more convenient
position?

I think you must have some seriously faulty appliances if you feel the
need for easy access to the fuse.

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
And cost doesn't even remotely come into the equation in my 'DIY
house'.
Just the best and most convenient situation. Electrical accessories
cost
pennies in the scheme of things.


Well your way seems very *inconvenient* IMO, having to haul out an
appliance just to isolate it...

Sigh. I never sight sockets in such a place as to make this necessary.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Yes, and such flexs are limited to 2 or 3 metres so the


Who says, seeing that one can buy it off the real in the DIY
sheds.

The lamp or what ever might well come with only two meters of
flex,
but who knows if it won't be replaced with a longer length of the
same section.

Your point being what though?


The poster I replied to seemed to think that as the length of flex on
the lamp (OWE) was only one or two meters as supplied, any
consideration of longer lengths was silly.

Well, going to longer lengths of skinny flex would make things even worse
on 'your' ideal radial with no fuse at the plug.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Well your way seems very *inconvenient* IMO, having to haul out an
appliance just to isolate it...

Sigh. I never sight sockets in such a place as to make this necessary.

Sigh. Site, even.

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

:::Jerry:::: wrote:


So, an accessible FCU above the worktop and a 3 pin round plug and
socket below - but then I forgot, to Dave (and others) cost and ease
of installation are the governing factors here....

Why do you want a FCU or a round pin plug?

Why not a double pole switch above the worktop feeding a single
unswitched socket below. This is they way it is usually wired, woirks
just fine and saves having to rewire the plug on the appliacnce (and all
the associated problems that brings).



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

No, have you never used a FCU to supply a flex to CU wall plate?

Huh? What is a CU wall plate?



They have a hole for the flex, with a cored-grip and connection
terminals on the inside.

That *is* a FCU - i.e. Fused *Connection* Unit...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

Your point being what though?



The poster I replied to seemed to think that as the length of flex on
the lamp (OWE) was only one or two meters as supplied, any
consideration of longer lengths was silly.

Not silly, just not relevant.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Have you left the real world Dave? B-)

He was in it to begin with.

You've got that right for once.

But left the real world a few weeks after entering.

Ah.

Yes, you departed the real world a long time ago.

snip babble

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
snip


But who do you think pulls the strings?

Tone.


Like hell he does, rolls on his back whilst getting a bush to tickle
his tummy may be...

How do you know Cherie does that to him? Are you making this up.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article s.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Care to produce proof? Because I never wrote this.

12 years then.

Wrong again.

12.5 years?

More lies.

13 years

More lies.

No true. This man is walking disaster zone..

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
They have a hole for the flex, with a cored-grip and connection
terminals on the inside.

That *is* a FCU - i.e. Fused *Connection* Unit...

No - there certainly is a plate known as a cord or flex outlet. See TLC
Contactum page for an example. They've usually got a cord grip, and may or
may not have a connector strip - but no fuse or switch, etc. Similar to a
cooker outlet plate, but for smaller flex.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
No true. This man is walking disaster zone..

How's that house you flooded with your hacksaw? Did the owner sue?

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:32:59 +0100,it is alleged that "Dave Plowman
(News)" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
They have a hole for the flex, with a cored-grip and connection
terminals on the inside.

That *is* a FCU - i.e. Fused *Connection* Unit...

No - there certainly is a plate known as a cord or flex outlet. See TLC
Contactum page for an example. They've usually got a cord grip, and may or
may not have a connector strip - but no fuse or switch, etc. Similar to a
cooker outlet plate, but for smaller flex.

These devices are most useful for feeding towel
rails/mascerators/other electrical devices in a bathroom where you
have the FCU outside.

Also have seen them used (sans terminal block) with a small phone jack
inside the box to prevent theft of desk phones in public areas. (the
US style plug fits through the cord hole from the inside, then gets
its tag cut off before reconnection to the phone).

--
While theoretically and technically television may be feasible,
commercially and financially it is an impossibility.
- Lee DeForest

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
So, an accessible FCU above the worktop and a 3 pin round plug
and
socket below - but then I forgot, to Dave (and others) cost and
ease
of installation are the governing factors here....

If I wanted isolating switches for kitchen appliances I'd group
them
together using 20 amp DP grid switches, and engrave the panel with
which
does what. Much neater than individual FCUs.

And why would you want to hack off a properly fitted plug to
replace it
with an obsolescent design? Just to move the fuse to a more
convenient
position?

I think you must have some seriously faulty appliances if you feel
the
need for easy access to the fuse.


Clueless....

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:


So, an accessible FCU above the worktop and a 3 pin round plug
and
socket below - but then I forgot, to Dave (and others) cost and
ease
of installation are the governing factors here....

Why do you want a FCU or a round pin plug?

Why not a double pole switch above the worktop feeding a single
unswitched socket below. This is they way it is usually wired,
woirks
just fine and saves having to rewire the plug on the appliacnce
(and all
the associated problems that brings).


So, if the fuse blows you like hauling out the appliance do you, and
wire fuses can and do blow for other reason than a faulty appliance
etc.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
And cost doesn't even remotely come into the equation in my
'DIY
house'.
Just the best and most convenient situation. Electrical
accessories
cost
pennies in the scheme of things.


Well your way seems very *inconvenient* IMO, having to haul out
an
appliance just to isolate it...

Sigh. I never sight sockets in such a place as to make this
necessary.


So you drill bloody great holes into cupboards and then fill the
space with electrical hardware instead....

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Yes, and such flexs are limited to 2 or 3 metres so the


Who says, seeing that one can buy it off the real in the DIY
sheds.

The lamp or what ever might well come with only two meters of
flex,
but who knows if it won't be replaced with a longer length of
the
same section.

Your point being what though?


The poster I replied to seemed to think that as the length of
flex on
the lamp (OWE) was only one or two meters as supplied, any
consideration of longer lengths was silly.

Well, going to longer lengths of skinny flex would make things even
worse
on 'your' ideal radial with no fuse at the plug.


How, lighting would not be on a radial anyway, it would be on a
lighting circuit. But even so, being on a 15A radial has got to be
better than on a 30A ring with a bridged plug fuse....

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
No true. This man is walking disaster zone..

How's that house you flooded with your hacksaw? Did the owner sue?


Nah, he's still to busy cleaning up and getting a real plumber to
come round, trouble is, after Frank's [1] attempts no one wants to
get involved...

Drivel could make a good 'Frank Spencer' in any remake, he wouldn't
need to act....