"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Why shouldn't you pay for what you use?

Bet you don't argue that when talking about local services or
healthcare! ;-)

She does pay for it...up front. Why pay car insurance when you could pay
out only when thee is a crash?

wrote in message
ups.com...

But if you were metered perhaps you might be more careful about what you
use - as you do (I imagine) with electricity, gas etc.

No, Im careful already.

In that case perhaps you should consider a meter!

Mary


NT

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Why shouldn't you pay for what you use?

Bet you don't argue that when talking about local services or healthcare!
;-)

I do.

Mary

raden wrote:

Meanwhile on Radio 4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/facethefacts/

goes to a piece on water bottling in Brazil. I have a feeling thats not
what you meant

NT

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Why shouldn't you pay for what you use?

Bet you don't argue that when talking about local services or
healthcare! ;-)

She does pay for it...up front. Why pay car insurance when you could pay
out only when thee is a crash?

She couldn't afford it.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

There many simple measures to reduce water consumption:

- Low flush toilets

These can be a mixed blessing IME. Some you need several flushes
get the
job(ie) finished!

If the whole unit is designed to be low flush then no problems.
Some people
only change the cistern part and then have problems.


So you are now proposing that the whole waste water system from pan
to the main sewer is replaced, the problem with stuff being left in
the pan after flushing is the least of the problems cause by Low
flush toilets. But the marketing blurb skips over those facts, just
as they do with Combi boilers, so we can't really expect you to know
or understand....

wrote:

ok. The pipework in question is buried in gardens, and the user has no
way of knowing its leaking like mad until they get an astronomical
bill. With unmetered supplies this real risk doesnt exist.

So whereas it is not your problem if youre unmetered, it becomes your
problem if on a meter.

Exactly this happened to friends of ours. They switched to a meter and
were smugly telling us how much lower their bills were now, and how we
should swap too, when they suddenly got a bill for 00s of GBP more than
expected, due to an undeground leak on their property. So they're now
reverting to unmetered, PDQ!!

David

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

There many simple measures to reduce water consumption:

- Low flush toilets

These can be a mixed blessing IME. Some you need several flushes
get the
job(ie) finished!

If the whole unit is designed to be low flush then no problems.
Some people
only change the cistern part and then have problems.


So you are now proposing that the whole waste water system from pan
to the main sewer is replaced,

Some mothers have 'em don't they

snip drivel

Lobster wrote:
wrote:

ok. The pipework in question is buried in gardens, and the user has
no way of knowing its leaking like mad until they get an astronomical
bill. With unmetered supplies this real risk doesnt exist.

So whereas it is not your problem if youre unmetered, it becomes your
problem if on a meter.

Exactly this happened to friends of ours. They switched to a meter
and were smugly telling us how much lower their bills were now, and
how we should swap too, when they suddenly got a bill for 00s of GBP
more than expected, due to an undeground leak on their property. So
they're now reverting to unmetered, PDQ!!

David

Heh! who's pipe was it, the waterboards or theirs?

If it was the Waterboards then they should have footed the bill, not the
houseowner.

wrote:
[snip]

ok. The pipework in question is buried in gardens, and the user has no
way of knowing its leaking like mad until they get an astronomical
bill. With unmetered supplies this real risk doesnt exist.

So whereas it is not your problem if youre unmetered, it becomes your
problem if on a meter.



Can you back this up with proof?

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

snip

Some mothers have 'em don't they


LOL...
Yes Frank, some do!

ben wrote:

The real point is, this country is not short of water, it does have a
grossly inefficient distribution system were water can't easily be
moved around the country and were distribution pipes sometimes
resemble colanders...

quite. If an international pipeline one day enables our excess to flow
to countries lacking water, at a price, this may change. But for now
we've got more than we could use sensibly.


Not to mention the old Victorian sewers that are still in use and need
widening/replacing as they are incapable of dispersing rainwater in heavy
floods.

True in some cases, but not across the board. There are plenty of
Victorian systems that cope quite happily with the heaviest of weather.


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...
ben wrote:

The real point is, this country is not short of water, it does have a
grossly inefficient distribution system were water can't easily be
moved around the country and were distribution pipes sometimes
resemble colanders...

quite. If an international pipeline one day enables our excess to flow
to countries lacking water, at a price, this may change. But for now
we've got more than we could use sensibly.

Moving water from one area to another has problems of scale. A soft water
area may find 1000s of systems will have scale problems, causing corrosion,
because of poor quality imported water. In some soft water areas many
heating installers don't pour in inhibitor, against what the makers say, and
never have problems of corrosion at all for 25 years or so.




In the UK we also have supply pipes that are far too small. It is still
common to supply 1/2" 20mm plastic, to new homes. Madness. The larger the
distribution pipes the greater the underground water storage. The UK only
has half a clue and viewed as incompetent which it comes to water and
plumbing. Quite rightly so too.

Not to mention the old Victorian sewers that are still in use and need
widening/replacing as they are incapable of dispersing rainwater in
heavy
floods.

True in some cases, but not across the board. There are plenty of
Victorian systems that cope quite happily with the heaviest of weather.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

snip

Moving water from one area to another has problems of scale. A
soft water
area may find 1000s of systems will have scale problems, causing
corrosion,
because of poor quality imported water. In some soft water areas
many
heating installers don't pour in inhibitor, against what the makers
say, and
never have problems of corrosion at all for 25 years or so.


Those problems could be solved at the same time as the distribution
network is built.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:31:31 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

The larger the
distribution pipes the greater the underground water storage.

Drivel alert!*

The UK only
has half a clue and viewed as incompetent which it comes to water and
plumbing. Quite rightly so too.

should read:

Doctor Drivel only
has half a clue and viewed as incompetent which it comes to water and
plumbing. Quite rightly so too.

that's better!

* not wrong, but drivel nonetheless.

cheers,
Pete.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:31:31 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

The larger the
distribution pipes the greater the underground water storage.

This one hasn't a clue.

snip drivel

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

snip

This one hasn't a clue.


If you say so, Frank...

"ben" writes:

I'd quite like a water meter (or, more to the point, for my bill
to reflect actual usage), but live in a block of flats with shared
riser located inconveniently for meter reading. Can a meter be
fitted in such a setup without expensive re-engineering of the
supply? The water company web site is unhelpfully vague...

A Water meter can be fitted in any property it sits between the main
inlet in your flat and the feed pipe throughtout.

Just inform them you wish to have a meter installed and let them do
the rest.
They will send someone out and install it for free.

Thank you for that information. Far more useful than the water
company web site! It's the access for ongoing meter reading with the
current layout that puts me off. The riser is in a boxed-in corner of
the bathroom and the stop valve is accessed through an arm sized hole
in the side of the adjacent basin unit. I might investigate putting a
door/ access hatch in the boxed-in section to facilitate access to a
meter, but this is less desirable than a meter which can be read from
outside the building as is possible with the separate supply pipes
found in more recently built flats.

However if its a council flat then you'd better get in touch with
them first, if its private ask your landlord if he/she has any
objection.

My reading of the lease is that the riser is the responsibility of the
freeholder and everything after the tee is mine. I've no reason to
believe that a meter would be problematic from that point of view.

I lived in a House where it was three floors/flats I was paying £179
a year, to a single person thats a lot of money, so I got the meter
installed and ended up paying £26 per six months, thats a hell of of
a saving.

Indeed. I don't need convincing on that score...

--
Mark

Mark Williams wrote:
"ben" writes:


I'd quite like a water meter (or, more to the point, for my bill
to reflect actual usage), but live in a block of flats with shared
riser located inconveniently for meter reading. Can a meter be
fitted in such a setup without expensive re-engineering of the
supply? The water company web site is unhelpfully vague...

A Water meter can be fitted in any property it sits between the main
inlet in your flat and the feed pipe throughtout.

Just inform them you wish to have a meter installed and let them do
the rest.
They will send someone out and install it for free.


Thank you for that information. Far more useful than the water
company web site! It's the access for ongoing meter reading with the
current layout that puts me off. The riser is in a boxed-in corner of
the bathroom and the stop valve is accessed through an arm sized hole
in the side of the adjacent basin unit. I might investigate putting a
door/ access hatch in the boxed-in section to facilitate access to a
meter, but this is less desirable than a meter which can be read from
outside the building as is possible with the separate supply pipes
found in more recently built flats.


There are flats in Norwich which have a water meter in the bathroom but
a remote digital meter near the front door.

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 09:54:15 +0100, PJ wrote:


There are flats in Norwich which have a water meter in the bathroom but
a remote digital meter near the front door.

My meter is read from outside, via some sort of sensor. AS it happens
the meter is just the other side of the wall but it wouldn't need to
be.