On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:09:53 +0100, Mind Boggles
wrote:


The Japanese are well known for their habit of washing things under
running water rather than sticking a plug in it, such a wasteful
nation you will not come across (apart from the yanks).

They're light years ahead of us on energy efficiency, compared to them
in the UK we've only just stopped banging the rocks together:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/japanenv.html

Apart from their affinity of eating rare and endangered species
('scientific' whaling, bluefin tuna etc etc) they're pretty good IMHO.

cheers,
Pete.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:09:53 +0100, Mind Boggles
wrote:


The Japanese are well known for their habit of washing things under
running water rather than sticking a plug in it, such a wasteful
nation you will not come across (apart from the yanks).

They're light years ahead of us on energy efficiency, compared to them
in the UK we've only just stopped banging the rocks together:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/japanenv.html

The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are "very"
efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water heating has
become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low energy and store lots
of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of energy all at once, suing most
of the energy available down your gas pipe. They also developed
multi-points that can be installed outside to save space too.

The T-H1 at over 95% efficient and over 30 litres/min flowrate.
http://www.takagi.com/web2003/pdf/TH1.pdf



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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are "very"
efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water heating has
become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low energy and store lots
of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of energy all at once, suing most
of the energy available down your gas pipe. They also developed
multi-points that can be installed outside to save space too.

The T-H1 at over 95% efficient and over 30 litres/min flowrate.
http://www.takagi.com/web2003/pdf/TH1.pdf


You really are a sucker for claims on web sites.

- The so-called 95% efficient is measured on what system? Presumably
a U.S. one? There's an asterisk against the number and they do not say
what the measurement method is. The specs seem to miss out on heat
output to water so one can't even see the story from that.

- If it's the same one as is used in the UK, then I find it very hard
to believe that it is achieving 95% when everything here is achieving
90-91%. If it's the continental European system then the range is
normally in the 106-109% range, and this would be pretty poor.

- Looking at the internal design, the thing has a secondary heat
exchanger and upfiring burner. Hardly leading edge, is it?

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

- Your claim that it delivers 38lpm is only under the best possible
conditions. This is equivalent to 10 U.S. gallons/min, and from the
graph, this is only achieved for water temperature of 60F (15.5C) in
and 95F (35C) out (hardly hot water is it?) or 70F (21C) in and 105F (
41C) out (tepid). If you look at the rate for a more realistic
figure using the UK defacto standard of dT=35C (8C to 43C) (46F to
109F)then the output is at around 6 US gpm or 23lpm which is not
impressive at all.




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The information contained in this post is copyright the
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very"
efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water heating
has
become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low energy and store
lots
of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of energy all at once, suing
most
of the energy available down your gas pipe. They also developed
multi-points that can be installed outside to save space too.

The T-H1 at over 95% efficient and over 30 litres/min flowrate.
http://www.takagi.com/web2003/pdf/TH1.pdf

You really are a sucker for claims on web sites.

No. I know a.lot abouit numbers.

- The so-called 95% efficient is measured
on what system? Presumably
a U.S. one?

They do a give a table at the end of the manual.

There's an asterisk against
the number and they do not say
what the measurement method
is. The specs seem to miss out on heat
output to water so one can't even see
the story from that.

95% efficioency on a scale to 109%, so you can work it out from that.

- If it's the same one as is used in the
UK, then I find it very hard
to believe that it is achieving 95%
when everything here is achieving
90-91%.

You don't have seasonal efficiencies on multi-points, they are rarely on
part load.
90-91 is seasonal effifiencies - SEDBUK.

If it's the continental European system then the range is
normally in the 106-109% range, and this would be pretty poor.

- Looking at the internal design, the thing has a secondary heat
exchanger and upfiring burner. Hardly leading edge, is it?

Yes well the construction is not ferrous, In cheapo condensing boilers the
primary heat exchanger is ferrous and the secondary is not.

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Enough for a hob.

- Your claim that it delivers 38lpm is only under the best possible
conditions. This is equivalent to 10 U.S. gallons/min, and from the
graph, this is only achieved for water temperature of 60F (15.5C) in
and 95F (35C) out (hardly hot water is it?) or 70F (21C) in and 105F (
41C) out (tepid). If you look at the rate for a more realistic
figure using the UK defacto standard of dT=35C (8C to 43C) (46F to
109F)then the output is at around 6 US gpm or 23lpm which is not
impressive at all.

You need to look at figures again.

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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very" efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water
heating has become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low
energy and store lots of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of
energy all at once, suing most of the energy available down your gas
pipe. They also developed multi-points that can be installed outside to
save space too.

Guess the catalogue fairy visited again?

It would be nice for once to hear of any real world experience you have
with equipment rather than just quoting advertising blurb.

Oh yes - I forgot. About the only practical thing you've mentioned here
was cutting plastic pipe with a hacksaw...

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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large bath in about 4 minutes.
















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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:16:05 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very"
efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water heating
has
become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low energy and store
lots
of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of energy all at once, suing
most
of the energy available down your gas pipe. They also developed
multi-points that can be installed outside to save space too.

The T-H1 at over 95% efficient and over 30 litres/min flowrate.
http://www.takagi.com/web2003/pdf/TH1.pdf

You really are a sucker for claims on web sites.

No. I know a.lot abouit numbers.

Mmmmm.... I'm not sure whether to say that you are a one, or a
number two really.



- The so-called 95% efficient is measured
on what system? Presumably
a U.S. one?

They do a give a table at the end of the manual.

If you mean the one on pp31, it's a set of data for water flow rates
vs. input and output temperature. Did you mean that page or something
else?



There's an asterisk against
the number and they do not say
what the measurement method
is. The specs seem to miss out on heat
output to water so one can't even see
the story from that.

95% efficioency on a scale to 109%, so you can work it out from that.

Oh come off it, even you know that that doesn't fly. The two
systems in use here (SEDBUK and the continental Europe one) are quite
clearly defined. If it's 95% for a condensing boiler on the 109%
efficiency scale, then the figure is crap for this product. I would
be inclined to believe the number because of the archaic secondary
condensor design. Even you have said that regarding boilers sold here
before.





- If it's the same one as is used in the
UK, then I find it very hard
to believe that it is achieving 95%
when everything here is achieving
90-91%.

You don't have seasonal efficiencies on multi-points, they are rarely on
part load.
90-91 is seasonal effifiencies - SEDBUK.

Of course. That's why I didn't think for one moment that it would be
95% on a SEDBUK type of scale when everything here is 90-91%.


If it's the continental European system then the range is
normally in the 106-109% range, and this would be pretty poor.

- Looking at the internal design, the thing has a secondary heat
exchanger and upfiring burner. Hardly leading edge, is it?

Yes well the construction is not ferrous, In cheapo condensing boilers the
primary heat exchanger is ferrous and the secondary is not.

The design is archaic. This is not the great product that you claim.




- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Enough for a hob.

Oh please.




- Your claim that it delivers 38lpm is only under the best possible
conditions. This is equivalent to 10 U.S. gallons/min, and from the
graph, this is only achieved for water temperature of 60F (15.5C) in
and 95F (35C) out (hardly hot water is it?) or 70F (21C) in and 105F (
41C) out (tepid). If you look at the rate for a more realistic
figure using the UK defacto standard of dT=35C (8C to 43C) (46F to
109F)then the output is at around 6 US gpm or 23lpm which is not
impressive at all.

You need to look at figures again.

I have. You look again. Remember also that there is a difference
between imperial and U.S. gallons.....

Let's be honest. The product's a piece of junk, isn't it?






--

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The information contained in this post is copyright the
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http://www.diybanter.com

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:37:03 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large bath in about 4 minutes.

I'm not even going to bother to respond to that nonsense.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large bath in about 4 minutes.

A Glow Worm 18SXI, 60,00 btu/hr system boiler = £687
A 300 litre Megaflow Systemfit unvented cylinder complete with valves,
stats, etc = £1515
Total = £2201

No contest. The two condensing combi's win hands down. A saving of £1067,
and never run out of hot water. Great eh!!!


















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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:16:05 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very"
efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water
heating
has
become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low energy and
store
lots
of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of energy all at once,
suing
most
of the energy available down your gas pipe. They also developed
multi-points that can be installed outside to save space too.

The T-H1 at over 95% efficient and over 30 litres/min flowrate.
http://www.takagi.com/web2003/pdf/TH1.pdf

You really are a sucker for claims on web sites.

No. I know a.lot abouit numbers.

Mmmmm.... I'm not sure whether to say that you are a one, or a
number two really.



- The so-called 95% efficient is measured
on what system? Presumably
a U.S. one?

They do a give a table at the end of the manual.

If you mean the one on pp31, it's a set of data for water flow rates
vs. input and output temperature. Did you mean that page or something
else?



There's an asterisk against
the number and they do not say
what the measurement method
is. The specs seem to miss out on heat
output to water so one can't even see
the story from that.

95% efficioency on a scale to 109%, so you can work it out from that.

Oh come off it, even you know that that doesn't fly. The two
systems in use here (SEDBUK and the continental Europe one) are quite
clearly defined.

You have been told. SEDBUK means nothing to a multi-point. It doesn't do
space heating.

- If it's the same one as is used in the
UK, then I find it very hard
to believe that it is achieving 95%
when everything here is achieving
90-91%.

You don't have seasonal efficiencies on multi-points, they are rarely on
part load.
90-91 is seasonal effifiencies - SEDBUK.

Of course. That's why I didn't think for
one moment that it would be
95% on a SEDBUK type of scale when
everything here is 90-91%.

SEDBUK scale? The scale is to 109%

If it's the continental European system then the range is
normally in the 106-109% range, and this would be pretty poor.

- Looking at the internal design, the thing has a secondary heat
exchanger and upfiring burner. Hardly leading edge, is it?

Yes well the construction is not ferrous, In cheapo condensing boilers
the
primary heat exchanger is ferrous and the secondary is not.

The design is archaic. This is not the great product that you claim.

It is very efficient. I believe Rinnai have better models, but not yet
available outside of Japan.

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Enough for a hob.

Oh please.

You don't like hobs?

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very" efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water
heating has become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low
energy and store lots of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of
energy all at once, suing most of the energy available down your gas
pipe. They also developed multi-points that can be installed outside to
save space too.

Guess

snip drivel from an electric caber tosser

Now put those DO NOT USE labels back on your gas appliances. The ones you
took off.


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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:37:03 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large bath in about 4 minutes.

I'm not even going to bother to respond to that nonsense.

Do you mean is doesn't deliver 24.6 litres/min and only costs £1134.92?

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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:55:37 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


95% efficioency on a scale to 109%, so you can work it out from that.

Oh come off it, even you know that that doesn't fly. The two
systems in use here (SEDBUK and the continental Europe one) are quite
clearly defined.

You have been told. SEDBUK means nothing to a multi-point. It doesn't do
space heating.

Yes I know. I was simply mentioning two scales. On the data sheet of
this appliance that you believe to be so great, there is not even a
reference to the measurement method.

One could deduce the output to water from the flow rate figures, but
if the manufacturer can't be bothered to state efficiency methods used
then it's not impressive.




- If it's the same one as is used in the
UK, then I find it very hard
to believe that it is achieving 95%
when everything here is achieving
90-91%.

You don't have seasonal efficiencies on multi-points, they are rarely on
part load.
90-91 is seasonal effifiencies - SEDBUK.

Of course. That's why I didn't think for
one moment that it would be
95% on a SEDBUK type of scale when
everything here is 90-91%.

SEDBUK scale? The scale is to 109%

Exactly, which makes the efficiency crap.



If it's the continental European system then the range is
normally in the 106-109% range, and this would be pretty poor.

- Looking at the internal design, the thing has a secondary heat
exchanger and upfiring burner. Hardly leading edge, is it?

Yes well the construction is not ferrous, In cheapo condensing boilers
the
primary heat exchanger is ferrous and the secondary is not.

The design is archaic. This is not the great product that you claim.

It is very efficient. I believe Rinnai have better models, but not yet
available outside of Japan.

Crap. 95% on a scale of 109% when typical European boilers are
managing 106%?

You're having a laugh.




- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Enough for a hob.

Oh please.

You don't like hobs?


WHat about the oven, the gas fire,......

This is a nonsense product in terms of any possible UK application....



--

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To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large bath in about 4 minutes.

More figures plucked from the ether...

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote
Enough for a hob.
Oh please.
You don't like hobs?

You can't cook pies on a hob :-)

Owain

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
You have been told. SEDBUK means nothing to a multi-point. It doesn't
do space heating.

Yes I know. I was simply mentioning two scales. On the data sheet of
this appliance that you believe to be so great, there is not even a
reference to the measurement method.

One could deduce the output to water from the flow rate figures, but if
the manufacturer can't be bothered to state efficiency methods used then
it's not impressive.

I've often wondered why John is so easily conned by maker's ads and
heavily optimistic specs, given he appears to have a rough idea how such
things should be measured?

Perhaps he's on a mission to misinform?

Certainly if he'd ever installed such things with statements like 'this
will fill your bath with piping hot water in 4 minutes' no one would ever
pay the bill...

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
You have been told. SEDBUK means nothing to a multi-point. It doesn't
do space heating.

Yes I know. I was simply mentioning two scales. On the data sheet of
this appliance that you believe to be so great, there is not even a
reference to the measurement method.

One could deduce the output to water from the flow rate figures, but if
the manufacturer can't be bothered to state efficiency methods used then
it's not impressive.

I've often wondered

Our resident inverted senile electric caber tosser is wondering again. A
bad sign.

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will
give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And
the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large
bath in about 4 minutes.

More figures plucked from the ether...

Our resaiden t electrioc cabertopkoser is at iot again. Go to the Glow Worm
web site and download the installation instructions - all is there. Brill
eh!


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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

It is very efficient. I believe Rinnai
have even better models, but not yet
available outside of Japan.

Crap. 95% on a scale of 109% when typical European boilers are
managing 106%?

You're having a laugh.

106% on "peak" efficiency". All boilers and multi-points can boast peak
efficiencies. My non-condensing Microgenus gives 91% peak, yet sedbuk say
seaonal 80%.



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On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:27:19 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

It is very efficient. I believe Rinnai
have even better models, but not yet
available outside of Japan.

Crap. 95% on a scale of 109% when typical European boilers are
managing 106%?

You're having a laugh.

106% on "peak" efficiency". All boilers and multi-points can boast peak
efficiencies. My non-condensing Microgenus gives 91% peak, yet sedbuk say
seaonal 80%.


Stop trying to confuse the story. Your attempt at obfuscation won't
wash. The measurement methods are clearly defined, and
manufacturer's "peak" numbers are not meaningful unless the test
parameters are clearly defined.

How come you have a non-condensing boiler? Would the plume be a
nuisance on the stairwell of the tower block?



--

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The information contained in this post is copyright the
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http://www.diybanter.com

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:27:19 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

It is very efficient. I believe Rinnai
have even better models, but not yet
available outside of Japan.

Crap. 95% on a scale of 109% when typical European boilers are
managing 106%?

You're having a laugh.

106% on "peak" efficiency". All boilers and multi-points can boast peak
efficiencies. My non-condensing Microgenus gives 91% peak, yet sedbuk
say
seaonal 80%.

Stop trying to confuse the story.

The confudion is in your head.

Your attempt at obfuscation won't
wash. The measurement methods
are clearly defined, and manufacturer's
"peak" numbers are not meaningful
unless the test parameters are clearly
defined.

If you know enough you can keep a non-condesning boiloer at "peak"
efficiency. Mating to a heat bank with appropriate controls will do this.

How come you have a non-condensing
boiler? Would the plume be a
nuisance on the stairwell of the tower block?

Wrong man here. You should direct them at the inverted, senile, electric
caber tosser who has a thing about sink estates.

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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will
give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And
the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large
bath in about 4 minutes.

More figures plucked from the ether...

Our resaiden t electrioc cabertopkoser is at iot again. Go to the Glow
Worm web site and download the installation instructions - all is there.
Brill eh!

So it says it will fill a large bath in about four minutes?

Very scientific, that.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Two Glow Worm 30cxi combis will
give 24.6 litres/min @ 35C temp rise and
consume 198 cu foot per hour. And
the cost of the two? £1134.92. Great
value, and great performance. Fill a large
bath in about 4 minutes.

More figures plucked from the ether...

Our resaiden t electrioc caber tosser is at it again. Go to the Glow
Worm web site and download the installation instructions - all is there.
Brill eh!

So it says it will fill a large bath
in about four minutes?

Very scientific, that.

Very. Turn on taps and look at watch and water level. Even Einstein could
do that. Boy is this one senile.



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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Our resaiden t electrioc caber tosser is at it again. Go to the
Glow Worm web site and download the installation instructions - all
is there. Brill eh!

So it says it will fill a large bath in about four minutes?

Very scientific, that.

Very. Turn on taps and look at watch and water level. Even Einstein
could do that. Boy is this one senile.

But Einstein would have been used to cold baths?

I'm sorry my senility requires things to be defined accurately.

Hope you're senile soon...

--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

But Einstein would have been used to cold baths?

I'm sorry my senility requires things to
be defined accurately.

Cold bath = cold water
Hot bath = hot water

There you are.

Hope you're senile soon...

Keep hoping, an eternity away. Do you go the therapy for your condition?





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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
But Einstein would have been used to cold baths?

I'm sorry my senility requires things to
be defined accurately.

Cold bath = cold water
Hot bath = hot water

There you are.

And there you have it - neither defined. Not the temperature of either hot
or cold. Which is where you always go wrong - apart from thinking all
baths are the same size. Would you like to know what temperature means?

BTW - you missed out tepid. Like your baths or showers must be. Unless you
got a pro to design your hot water system.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
You have been told. SEDBUK means nothing to a multi-point. It doesn't
do space heating.

Yes I know. I was simply mentioning two scales. On the data sheet of
this appliance that you believe to be so great, there is not even a
reference to the measurement method.

One could deduce the output to water from the flow rate figures, but if
the manufacturer can't be bothered to state efficiency methods used then
it's not impressive.

I've often wondered

Our resident inverted senile electric caber tosser is wondering again. A
bad sign.

Have you no better way if saying IHGAC ?


--
geoff

In message , Owain
writes
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote
Enough for a hob.
Oh please.
You don't like hobs?

You can't cook pies on a hob :-)

DIMM only cooks facts

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Evil
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
You have been told. SEDBUK means nothing to a multi-point. It
doesn't
do space heating.

Yes I know. I was simply mentioning two scales. On the data sheet
of
this appliance that you believe to be so great, there is not even a
reference to the measurement method.

One could deduce the output to water from the flow rate figures, but
if
the manufacturer can't be bothered to state efficiency methods used
then
it's not impressive.

I've often wondered

Our resident inverted senile electric caber tosser is wondering again. A
bad sign.

Have you no better way if saying IHGAC ?

What is that Maxie?









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"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Owain
writes
Doctor Evil wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote
Enough for a hob.
Oh please.
You don't like hobs?

You can't cook pies on a hob :-)

DIMM only cooks facts

Maxie, do you mean Dim Lin, the Oriental enchantress, is not truthful to
you? Sounds like a break-up here. Oh Dear.


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"Doctor Evil" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:

The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very" efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min.

They also developed multi-points that can be installed outside to save space too.

snip

- Your claim that it delivers 38lpm is only under the best possible
conditions. This is equivalent to 10 U.S. gallons/min, and from the
graph, this is only achieved for water temperature of 60F (15.5C) in
and 95F (35C) out (hardly hot water is it?) or 70F (21C) in and 105F (
41C) out (tepid). If you look at the rate for a more realistic
figure using the UK defacto standard of dT=35C (8C to 43C) (46F to
109F)then the output is at around 6 US gpm or 23lpm which is not
impressive at all.

You need to look at figures again.

We all have, its crap Dr Combi. Provide the figures that show you
can have a hot bath, preferably a nice pre 1980's one filled at 38
litres a minute with water raised by delta T 35 deg C.

Until then your seedy little Combi lies have been revealed to all the
world.

Just for reference my cold water supply to the bath just measured 16
deg C at 20 litres a minute. The hot water from my "airing cupboard
filling hot water cylinder" filled by a gas guzzling, silicon coated
90.9% SEDBUK boiler (singular) last fired four hours ago is at 65 deg
C filling the bath at 20 litres a minute.

As for mounting a multi point "outside" then on your third world
shanty town estate then that might be acceptable - but won't it get
nicked by the local corgi registered fitter because its better than
anything else in the world - ever?


--

"Jack" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Evil" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:

The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very" efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min.

They also developed multi-points that can be installed outside to save
space too.

snip

- Your claim that it delivers 38lpm is only under the best possible
conditions. This is equivalent to 10 U.S. gallons/min, and from the
graph, this is only achieved for water temperature of 60F (15.5C) in
and 95F (35C) out (hardly hot water is it?) or 70F (21C) in and 105F (
41C) out (tepid). If you look at the rate for a more realistic
figure using the UK defacto standard of dT=35C (8C to 43C) (46F to
109F)then the output is at around 6 US gpm or 23lpm which is not
impressive at all.

You need to look at figures again.

We all have, its crap Dr Combi.

Our resident cylinder makers has changed his name yet again. Only appears
to slag the competition. What a saddo.

Just for reference my cold water
supply to the bath just measured 16
deg C at 20 litres a minute.

You never. You are making things up.

The hot water from my "airing cupboard
filling hot water cylinder"

All that space taken up. Appalling!

filled by a gas
guzzling, silicon coated 90.9%
SEDBUK boiler (singular) last fired
four hours ago

You timed it. Stop making things up.

Snip drivel about new technology. Boy! They are on the run aren't they.
This is so good.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
But Einstein would have been used to cold baths?

I'm sorry my senility requires things to
be defined accurately.

Cold bath = cold water
Hot bath = hot water

There you are.

And there you have it

snip senile ramblings
















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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

I've often wondered why John is so easily conned by maker's ads and
heavily optimistic specs, given he appears to have a rough idea how such
things should be measured?

John?

Does he know anything about boats?


--

The message
from Tim contains these words:

I've often wondered why John is so easily conned by maker's ads and
heavily optimistic specs, given he appears to have a rough idea how such
things should be measured?

John?

Dimm aka Drivel is really an unemployed thicko who was using the name
John Burns-Curtis when he first started to infest this newsgroup. Given
that the surname Burns-Curtis is rare to nonexistent in the uk the
hyphen is probably a figment of his imagination like most of his
contentious ramblings.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from Tim contains these words:

I've often wondered why John is so easily conned by maker's ads and
heavily optimistic specs, given he appears to have a rough idea how
such
things should be measured?

John?

Oh! Look whose back. Roger the Dodger, the man from Essex. How is the
swirley patterned carpet doing?

In article ,
Roger wrote:
I've often wondered why John is so easily conned by maker's ads and
heavily optimistic specs, given he appears to have a rough idea how
such things should be measured?

John?

Dimm aka Drivel is really an unemployed thicko who was using the name
John Burns-Curtis when he first started to infest this newsgroup. Given
that the surname Burns-Curtis is rare to nonexistent in the uk the
hyphen is probably a figment of his imagination like most of his
contentious ramblings.

I'd say he's probably retired from his job as a counter hand at a PM.
Hence the time for all those little jobs for relatives, and the time to
learn up every maker's advertising blurb.

Would account for his interest in the grassy knoll too. These things can
make an impression on a young man.

--
*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Roger wrote:

Amazing, one total nutter and clear senile one, babbling away. This must
great reading for a shrink.

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from Tim contains these words:

...Roger the Dodger, they call him so
...he dodges around fast and slow
...inane babble he puts our way
...no sense, no knowledge he froths away
...of professional attention he needs, no doubt
...so why the government allow this fool out?

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

I'd say he's probably retired from his job as a counter hand at a PM.
Hence the time for all those little jobs for relatives, and the time to
learn up every maker's advertising blurb.

You might be right. There is after all no reason to suppose he actually
told the truth when he claimed to have been a youth in the 60s/70s.

Would account for his interest in the grassy knoll too. These things can
make an impression on a young man.

Didn't make much inpression on me, perhaps I wasn't young enough.

--
Roger