"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:16:05 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:20:14 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



The Takagi condensing multi-points, not available in the UK (yet) are
"very"
efficient, and can return around 38 litres/min. Instant water
heating
has
become the norm in Japan now. It is a case of use low energy and
store
lots
of hot water taking up space, or use a lot of energy all at once,
suing
most
of the energy available down your gas pipe. They also developed
multi-points that can be installed outside to save space too.

The T-H1 at over 95% efficient and over 30 litres/min flowrate.
http://www.takagi.com/web2003/pdf/TH1.pdf

You really are a sucker for claims on web sites.

No. I know a.lot abouit numbers.

Mmmmm.... I'm not sure whether to say that you are a one, or a
number two really.



- The so-called 95% efficient is measured
on what system? Presumably
a U.S. one?

They do a give a table at the end of the manual.

If you mean the one on pp31, it's a set of data for water flow rates
vs. input and output temperature. Did you mean that page or something
else?



There's an asterisk against
the number and they do not say
what the measurement method
is. The specs seem to miss out on heat
output to water so one can't even see
the story from that.

95% efficioency on a scale to 109%, so you can work it out from that.

Oh come off it, even you know that that doesn't fly. The two
systems in use here (SEDBUK and the continental Europe one) are quite
clearly defined.

You have been told. SEDBUK means nothing to a multi-point. It doesn't do
space heating.

- If it's the same one as is used in the
UK, then I find it very hard
to believe that it is achieving 95%
when everything here is achieving
90-91%.

You don't have seasonal efficiencies on multi-points, they are rarely on
part load.
90-91 is seasonal effifiencies - SEDBUK.

Of course. That's why I didn't think for
one moment that it would be
95% on a SEDBUK type of scale when
everything here is 90-91%.

SEDBUK scale? The scale is to 109%

If it's the continental European system then the range is
normally in the 106-109% range, and this would be pretty poor.

- Looking at the internal design, the thing has a secondary heat
exchanger and upfiring burner. Hardly leading edge, is it?

Yes well the construction is not ferrous, In cheapo condensing boilers
the
primary heat exchanger is ferrous and the secondary is not.

The design is archaic. This is not the great product that you claim.

It is very efficient. I believe Rinnai have better models, but not yet
available outside of Japan.

- The NG input is 199,000 BTU in deprecated units, or 58kW. This is
virtually the entire output from a domestic supply, leaving no spare
capacity for anything else unless a commercial supply is installed.

Enough for a hob.

Oh please.

You don't like hobs?

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