Mike Tomlinson wrote:

In article , Simon Barr
writes

I've *never* known any UPS to boil batteries and dump acid and I've replaced
batteries in maybe 50 over the years. Some of them were very deformed from
high temperatures but all held onto their contents.

Normally, I'd agree with you, having happily installed and used a lot of
APC kit, but we had an APC Smart UPS 2200 boil its external battery pack
last week. Fortunately, we smelt something getting hot and caught it
before it could leak everywhere. The batteries are badly distorted.

It's only just over two years old, and APC refused a warranty claim.

APC's designers ought to read up on what voltage you use to maintain a
charge on sealed lead acid gel cells. Their battery packs would last
a hell of a lot longer if they did, but that's hardly good business is
it? In the application they are designed for the batteries ought to
last for a good 10-15 years. Abused as they are by incompetent design
I am surprised they even manage to give service beyond a few weeks.


--

In article ,
Martin Evans writes:

APC's designers ought to read up on what voltage you use to maintain a
charge on sealed lead acid gel cells. Their battery packs would last
a hell of a lot longer if they did, but that's hardly good business is
it? In the application they are designed for the batteries ought to
last for a good 10-15 years. Abused as they are by incompetent design
I am surprised they even manage to give service beyond a few weeks.

I suspect this comes about because of the rapid full recharge required
so you can soon sustain another power failure, possibly combined with
lack of capability of the electronics to switch between cyclic and
standby mode charging (if indeed that is the situation). But yes, it
would seem to be a design fault. I have SLA batteries which are 10
years old and still have their full capacity in other equipment.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article , Martin Evans wrote:


In the application they are designed for the batteries ought to
last for a good 10-15 years. Abused as they are by incompetent design
I am surprised they even manage to give service beyond a few weeks.


Are you sure? The following is from a Yuasa tech document for their
SLA batts.

NP batteries are designed to operate in standby (float)
service for approximately 5 years, based upon a
normal service condition in which float charge voltage
is maintained between 2.25 and 2.30 volts per cell in
an ambient temperature of approximately 20C (68F).


Thats 5 years at an ideal 20C. How many UPS are operated at that? In my
experience, none. All UPS get hotter than that, I just checked three here
and found that one was 25C, another 28C and a third 34C, and that's their
internal temperature without the invertor running.

Surely that must reduce the battery life, though the document doesn't say by
how much.


--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

In article , Simon Barr
writes
In article , Martin Evans wrote:


In the application they are designed for the batteries ought to
last for a good 10-15 years. Abused as they are by incompetent design
I am surprised they even manage to give service beyond a few weeks.


Are you sure? The following is from a Yuasa tech document for their
SLA batts.

NP batteries are designed to operate in standby (float)
service for approximately 5 years, based upon a
normal service condition in which float charge voltage
is maintained between 2.25 and 2.30 volts per cell in
an ambient temperature of approximately 20C (68F).


Thats 5 years at an ideal 20C. How many UPS are operated at that? In my
experience, none. All UPS get hotter than that, I just checked three here
and found that one was 25C, another 28C and a third 34C, and that's their
internal temperature without the invertor running.

Surely that must reduce the battery life, though the document doesn't say by
how much.



And AIUI their charging voltage is temperature dependent, but they do
have some sort of temp compensation when charging don't they?....
--
Tony Sayer

Simon Barr wrote:

In article , Martin Evans wrote:


In the application they are designed for the batteries ought to
last for a good 10-15 years. Abused as they are by incompetent design
I am surprised they even manage to give service beyond a few weeks.


Are you sure? The following is from a Yuasa tech document for their
SLA batts.

NP batteries are designed to operate in standby (float)
service for approximately 5 years, based upon a
normal service condition in which float charge voltage
is maintained between 2.25 and 2.30 volts per cell in
an ambient temperature of approximately 20C (68F).


Thats 5 years at an ideal 20C. How many UPS are operated at that? In my
experience, none. All UPS get hotter than that, I just checked three here
and found that one was 25C, another 28C and a third 34C, and that's their
internal temperature without the invertor running.

Surely that must reduce the battery life, though the document doesn't say by
how much.

The Yuasa specs for volts are a bit on the high side compared to other
manufacturers but APC, certainly in every UPS i've checked, don't
seem to compensate for temperature nor is the voltage particularly
well controlled in the first place. Go to the right manufacturers and
you can get a predicted 25 year life from absorbed mat batteries -
i've experience of cells, albeit on open racks that are now in their
14th year and still at close to 100% capacity - the chargers are
properly designed though. If you need fast recovery of charge then by
all means up the volts for a short period but to continually
overcharge is just plain criminal.


--

Simon Barr wrote:


Are you sure? The following is from a Yuasa tech document for their
SLA batts.

NP batteries are designed to operate in standby (float)
service for approximately 5 years, based upon a
normal service condition in which float charge voltage
is maintained between 2.25 and 2.30 volts per cell in
an ambient temperature of approximately 20C (68F).

Yeah - that's for the 'general service' range. They also do a
longer-life range - NPC, if I remember aright - for which they claim
maybe double that life. I'd look up chapter and verse, but rswww.com is
refusing my login credentials right now...

Stefek

B Thumbs wrote:

We have lead acid batteries over 50 years old on standby alternator
sets
over 50 years old and still fit for the purpose. They are onto at
least their
second charger, though.

--
B Thumbs

tell us more.

NT

In article , Stefek Zaba s-nilnews-
writes
Simon Barr wrote:


Are you sure? The following is from a Yuasa tech document for their
SLA batts.

NP batteries are designed to operate in standby (float)
service for approximately 5 years, based upon a
normal service condition in which float charge voltage
is maintained between 2.25 and 2.30 volts per cell in
an ambient temperature of approximately 20C (68F).

Yeah - that's for the 'general service' range. They also do a
longer-life range - NPC, if I remember aright - for which they claim
maybe double that life. I'd look up chapter and verse, but rswww.com is
refusing my login credentials right now...

Stefek

Theres quite a lot of useful info on the Exide site. Just bought a
serious amount of these and they should hopefully last me into
retirement..

http://networkpower.exide.com/
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Stefek Zaba wrote:

Yeah - that's for the 'general service' range. They also do a
longer-life range - NPC, if I remember aright - for which they claim
maybe double that life. I'd look up chapter and verse, but rswww.com is
refusing my login credentials right now...

Stefek

Cheers, I'll take a look at those.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Simon Barr wrote:


................................................ ..... They also do a
longer-life range - NPC, if I remember aright - for which they claim
maybe double that life.

Cheers, I'll take a look at those.


NPC as it turns out is the name for their deeper-discharge range, but
there's other variants claiming longer life, from Yuasa and other mfrs
too. If you pop over to rswww.com and navigate their Products along the
route 'Consumables - Batteries/chargers - Lead Acid Batteries',
there's plenty of technical data once you pull up particular items. (You
need to register to read the datasheets).

HTH - Stefek