Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy
flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to
solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

cheers Roy

In article ,
roy davidson wrote:
Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end,
greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found
another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to
do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond
with the cable.

You need a flux designed for steel. Something like Baker's soldering fluid.
Fluxite - or similar paste type fluxes - are really meant for things like
copper or brass.

But I'd make sure the wire rope is clean first - it's possible it might
have some form of wax applied to prevent corrosion. Cellulose thinners
remove most of this sort of thing.

I've found an aggressive flux - like Everflux - also works well on steel.
I recently made up a throttle cable for the old car with no problems.

--
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"roy davidson" writes:
Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy
flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to
solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

Is this to stop the end fraying?
What about crimping on a bootlace ferrule,
or any crimp which is about the right size?

--
Andrew Gabriel

In message , roy davidson
writes
Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy
flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to
solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

Lots of clean

lots of heat (as opposed to temperature)

Lots of flux, and then some more


--
geoff

"roy davidson" wrote in message
...
Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end,
greasy
flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method
to
solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

cheers Roy



You will need to use Braze or Silver Solder, which you will need to use a
propane torch.

Never done it so can't help any further!

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
"roy davidson" writes:
Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy
flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to
solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

Is this to stop the end fraying?
What about crimping on a bootlace ferrule,
or any crimp which is about the right size?

They do make little crimp on ferrules specifically for the end of bike
cables, or little it of heat shrink tubing over the end.

I've soldered them as well with solder tape, a few wraps and a match and
it's done.
--
Chris French, Leeds

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:21:13 +0100, "roy davidson"
wrote:

I just want to know how to do it before once
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

Go to the bike shop and scrounge some crimp ends. They'll crimp with
narrow pliers (a narrow crimped band is stronger than an overall
flattened tube).

If you're a sparkie, then electrician's bootlace ferrules work fine
too.

Bike cable should soft-solder pretty easily. Degrease it, then use a
powerful active flux. Fluxite paste is enough, multicore isn't. If the
cable's new and clean you shouldn't need to use Baker's Fluid. A big
(=50W iron is useful)

If you're obsessive about your bike (about 90% of cyclists) you can
form a back splice instead. No one will ever notice, but it's 0.001g
lighter than adding that ferrule 8-)


For bigger cables than bikes, silver soldering is good. This will also
work happily on stainless or phosphor bronze wire cable. You'll need a
fluoride based flux, especially on stainless, but the joint is usually
very easy to make, so long as the cable's reasonably fresh and clean.
If it's old cable that has been out in the weather, either pickle it
clean first, or splice it. Don't braze wire cable - it reduces the
strength considerably.

Wire rope can't be soldered unless you remove any fibre centre core
first. Degrease carefully too.


--
Smert' spamionam

roy davidson wrote:

Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy
flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to
solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

cheers Roy


Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp.

again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

cheers Roy


Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp.

Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to
stock one that's long enough.

Peter Scott

Peter Scott wrote :-

Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems
to
stock one that's long enough.

Try doing a search for Bowden Cable, plenty of results

Regards Jeff

Peter Scott wrote:
Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to
stock one that's long enough.

An ironmonger may have some or a bicycle shop may have some on the
reel.. hard to say. Anyway, you may find that nipples are hard to
get these days, most seem to be cast on, and if you warm them up,
the metal just splashes off. Have you soldered nipples onto cable
before? There's a technique....

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Peter Scott wrote:
Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to
make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one
seems to
stock one that's long enough.

An ironmonger may have some or a bicycle shop may have some on the
reel.. hard to say. Anyway, you may find that nipples are hard to
get these days, most seem to be cast on, and if you warm them up,
the metal just splashes off. Have you soldered nipples onto cable
before? There's a technique....

Yes I'm OK on that. Used to work in a bike shop.

Peter Scott

"Jeff" wrote in message
.. .

Peter Scott wrote :-

Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to
make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one
seems
to
stock one that's long enough.

Try doing a search for Bowden Cable, plenty of results

Regards Jeff

Good thinking. I had forgotten that's what it was called.

Peter Scott

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:27:41 +0100, "Peter Scott"
wrote:

Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends?

Any bike shop. If you go in the workshop rather than looking on the
retail racks, the stuff is on a reel.

BTW - brake and gear cable is different and you really shouldn't swap
them.

If you haven't already, read Sheldon Brown's website
http://sheldonbrown.com/diy/

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:05:26 +0100, "Jeff" wrote:

Try doing a search for Bowden Cable, plenty of results

Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.

Peter Scott wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote...
Have you soldered nipples onto cable before? There's a technique....

Yes I'm OK on that. Used to work in a bike shop.

Some years ago I went into a bike shop-cum-hairdressers-cum-barber
and asked the young lady whether she'd got brass nipples... she
was embarassed.

Andy Dingley wrote:
Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.

Now what. Why?

In article , "Peter Scott"
says...

again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

cheers Roy


Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp.

Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to
stock one that's long enough.

Longer than 3 meters?

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:52:32 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.

Now what. Why?

Bowden (in the strictest sense) cables are designed to accurately
transmit a position down a flexible cable. They're appropriate for
gearcables.

Brake cables are designed to transmit a tensile force. Position is
less important, so a certain amount of ghost movement caused by cable
flex is acceptable. It would be a problem on a gear cable if you
shifted gear every time you moved the bars.

As a result of these requirements, the cable outers are constructed
differently. Position-sensitive cables are multiple longitudinal wires
in a jacket. If you flex this cable, the outer doesn't change length.
Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible,
and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the
apparent fake movement of the inner cable. Using brake cable for
gears gives poor shifting that's prone to false shifts and moving
gates.

The serious implication for bikes is if you use "gear" cable for
brakes. Wear on the outer jacket can weaken the integrity of the outer
cable such that hard emergency braking can burst it (the wires
separate). The inner cable pulls through the gap and you lose your
brakes. This is also most likely to happen when you _apply_ the
brakes, not in an obvious manner beforehand.

Andy Dingley wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Dingely wrote
Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.

Now what. Why?


Bowden (in the strictest sense) cables are designed to accurately
transmit a position down a flexible cable. They're appropriate for
gearcables.

Brake cables are designed to transmit a tensile force. Position is
less important, so a certain amount of ghost movement caused by cable
flex is acceptable. It would be a problem on a gear cable if you
shifted gear every time you moved the bars.

As a result of these requirements, the cable outers are constructed
differently. Position-sensitive cables are multiple longitudinal wires
in a jacket. If you flex this cable, the outer doesn't change length.
Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible,
and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the
apparent fake movement of the inner cable. Using brake cable for
gears gives poor shifting that's prone to false shifts and moving
gates.

The serious implication for bikes is if you use "gear" cable for
brakes. Wear on the outer jacket can weaken the integrity of the outer
cable such that hard emergency braking can burst it (the wires
separate). The inner cable pulls through the gap and you lose your
brakes. This is also most likely to happen when you _apply_ the
brakes, not in an obvious manner beforehand.

Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely
ages. Sorry, but *really*.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.

Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely
ages. Sorry, but *really*.

I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a bicycle
with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket" used
on a bicycle. What the hell are these?

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:09:42 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely
ages. Sorry, but *really*.

Hey, it's your head.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:

Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.


Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely
ages. Sorry, but *really*.


I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a bicycle
with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket" used
on a bicycle. What the hell are these?

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/cable.shtml

There are two photographs. One of compressionless gear cable
outer---with longitudinal wires---and one of brake cable outer---with
spiral, compressible wiring. It's pretty standard stuff.

Colin

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:52:32 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.

Now what. Why?

Bowden (in the strictest sense) cables are designed to accurately
transmit a position down a flexible cable. They're appropriate for
gearcables.

Brake cables are designed to transmit a tensile force. Position is
less important, so a certain amount of ghost movement caused by cable
flex is acceptable. It would be a problem on a gear cable if you
shifted gear every time you moved the bars.

As a result of these requirements, the cable outers are constructed
differently. Position-sensitive cables are multiple longitudinal wires
in a jacket. If you flex this cable, the outer doesn't change length.
Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible,
and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the
apparent fake movement of the inner cable. Using brake cable for
gears gives poor shifting that's prone to false shifts and moving
gates.

The serious implication for bikes is if you use "gear" cable for
brakes. Wear on the outer jacket can weaken the integrity of the outer
cable such that hard emergency braking can burst it (the wires
separate). The inner cable pulls through the gap and you lose your
brakes. This is also most likely to happen when you _apply_ the
brakes, not in an obvious manner beforehand.


Hmmm, bowden cables are used for clutches, throttles etc, etc, Frank Bowden
was also the founder of Raleigh.
I agree there might be different types but they are all Bowden Cables

Regards Jeff

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:23:40 +0100, "Jeff" wrote:

I agree there might be different types but they are all Bowden Cables

These things are Victorian in origin. Bowden's innovation and patents'
were in finding a way to make them so they'd accurately transmit a
position. he was fortunate to do this at a time when expanding
aircraft production made a demand for them as control cables.

I dare say you can find suitable brake cables "made by Bowden". Some
of the Teleflex ones are double layered, one of each wrapping. But in
the generic sense, be careful and use the right sort.

In message , Colin Blackburn
writes
Chris Bacon wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:

Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes.

Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely
ages. Sorry, but *really*.
I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a
bicycle with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a
jacket" used
on a bicycle. What the hell are these?

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/cable.shtml

There are two photographs. One of compressionless gear cable
outer---with longitudinal wires---and one of brake cable outer---with
spiral, compressible wiring. It's pretty standard stuff.

Indeed, and the reason it is used is to keep modern indexed gears
working correctly.
--
Chris French, Leeds

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Peter Scott"
says...

again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

cheers Roy


Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp.

Get proper end-caps (cost next to nothing) and just crimp them gently on.
It does not need to be soldered. The end-caps are designed to be crimped.
Trust me, I've done a great many in my time and they've never come off
accidentally (you do want to be able to remove it sometimes to strip the
bike down without destroying the cable).




a

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Peter Scott"
says...

again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the
cable.

cheers Roy


Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp.

Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to
make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one
seems to
stock one that's long enough.

Longer than 3 meters?

Erm.. I'll have to battle to the back of my shed where the
tandem has been languishing while I find a cable. I don't
think its more than 3m though. However none of the bike
shops in Norwich had one long enough when I last did
a trawl knowing the actual length.

This was the full range from small specialist shops to Halfords.
Do you know of an on-line supplier?

Peter Scott

Peter Scott wrote:

... tandem ...

This was the full range from small specialist shops to Halfords.
Do you know of an on-line supplier?

I'd try http://www.sjscycles.com/ - St John Street Cycles in Bridgwater,
who seem to have quite a thing for tandems, going by their ads in the
CTC (Cyclists' Touring Club) mag.

Also try the other suppliers listed on the Tandem Club's website -
http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ - and their message boards.

HTH - Stefek

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:37:05 +0100, "Peter Scott"
wrote:

However none of the bike
shops in Norwich had one long enough when I last did
a trawl knowing the actual length.

I've _never_ seen a brake or gear cable set that was long enough for a
tandem. Tandems are rare, why make it in sets ? If you're a
tandemist, then you're expected to be capable of finding a Real LBS
with long reels.

Now, who knows a good source for Goretex or PTFE-lined gear cables for
tandems? I've only seen these in sets, not reels.

In message , Andy Dingley
writes
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:37:05 +0100, "Peter Scott"
wrote:

However none of the bike
shops in Norwich had one long enough when I last did
a trawl knowing the actual length.

I've _never_ seen a brake or gear cable set that was long enough for a
tandem. Tandems are rare, why make it in sets ? If you're a
tandemist, then you're expected to be capable of finding a Real LBS
with long reels.

Places that deal in Tandems sell the cables. St. John Street Cycles list
them for one.

http://www.sjscycles.com/


Now, who knows a good source for Goretex or PTFE-lined gear cables for
tandems? I've only seen these in sets, not reels.

Gore do (or did anyway) brake cable sets for tandems. Dunno about gears
--
Chris French, Leeds

In article ,
Dave Jones wrote:
You will need to use Braze or Silver Solder, which you will need to use
a propane torch.

No. ;-) The heat required for these will weaken the cable - or loose the
flexibility. All that's required is to splay out the strands at the nipple
and stop them pulling through. The shear strength of soft solder more than
matches a 'solderless' nipple of the type which relies on friction.

Never done it so can't help any further!

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , "al"
says...
"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Peter Scott"
says...

again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable.

cheers Roy


Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp.

Get proper end-caps (cost next to nothing) and just crimp them gently on.
It does not need to be soldered. The end-caps are designed to be crimped.

He's talking about nipples, not cable tidies.

In article , "Peter Scott"
says...

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "Peter Scott"
says...

again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the
cable.

cheers Roy


Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp.

Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to
make
up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one
seems to
stock one that's long enough.

Longer than 3 meters?

Erm.. I'll have to battle to the back of my shed where the
tandem has been languishing while I find a cable. I don't
think its more than 3m though. However none of the bike
shops in Norwich had one long enough when I last did
a trawl knowing the actual length.

This was the full range from small specialist shops to Halfords.

The shop I worked in many years ago always carried tandem inner wires
and bulk outer cable - I'd have thought that "proper" shops still
would.

Do you know of an on-line supplier?

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
No. ;-) The heat required for these will weaken the cable - or loose the
flexibility. All that's required is to splay out the strands at the nipple
and stop them pulling through. The shear strength of soft solder more than
matches a 'solderless' nipple of the type which relies on friction.

Solderless nipples.... the screw-on type. Dangerous for anything
critical IME. You can get cables to solder better by unravelling
the end 1 1/2" (not straining the individual wires!), cleaning,
and re-winding them before trying to solder.

chris French wrote:
Colin Blackburn writes
Chris Bacon wrote:
I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a
bicycle with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a
jacket" used on a bicycle. What the hell are these?

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/cable.shtml

There are two photographs. One of compressionless gear cable
outer---with longitudinal wires---and one of brake cable outer---with
spiral, compressible wiring. It's pretty standard stuff.

Indeed, and the reason it is used is to keep modern indexed gears
working correctly.

Aha! "Modern indexed gears", hmm.... that's why. One would have to be
a bit of a dunce to use these cables for brakes! Surely Mr. Blackburn
does not mean that the outer of spiral-wound Bowden cable is really
compressible? That would sort of render brake cable pretty useless!

Chris Bacon wrote:

Aha! "Modern indexed gears", hmm.... that's why. One would have to be
a bit of a dunce to use these cables for brakes! Surely Mr. Blackburn
does not mean that the outer of spiral-wound Bowden cable is really
compressible? That would sort of render brake cable pretty useless!

It is compressible only in that it isn't compressionless! Since the
longitudinally wired outer is designed as a compressionless alternative
to the more traditional cable housing, it stands that the original outer
isn't compressionless and so must, to some extent, be compressible. The
degree of compressibility is, of course, slight, as Andy said:

Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible,
and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the
apparent fake movement of the inner cable.

This effect is used for secondary braking systems (cross levers on the
tops of drops) that push outer rather than pull cable.

Colin

Colin Blackburn wrote:

This effect is used for secondary braking systems (cross levers on the
tops of drops) that push outer rather than pull cable.

Ignore this last line I am talking rubbish.

Colin

Here's a site that does motorcycle cabling and nipples.....
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.c...page/home.html and
their prices look pretty good. I've actually bodged my own nipples in the
past using either the brass rod section on a redundant Chubb type key or
just steel rod cut off the unthreaded section of an old bolt.
I had great trouble getting the solder to take to the cable......... in the
end, I had to use silver solder and a blowlamp which worked fine. The silver
solders a bit pricey..........£5 for a 2' length and it was coated in flux
but it should last for ages as I only used about 1" of it.

Geoff
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:23:40 +0100, "Jeff" wrote:

I agree there might be different types but they are all Bowden Cables

These things are Victorian in origin. Bowden's innovation and patents'
were in finding a way to make them so they'd accurately transmit a
position. he was fortunate to do this at a time when expanding
aircraft production made a demand for them as control cables.

I dare say you can find suitable brake cables "made by Bowden". Some
of the Teleflex ones are double layered, one of each wrapping. But in
the generic sense, be careful and use the right sort.

"Stefek Zaba" wrote in message
...
I'd try http://www.sjscycles.com/ - St John Street Cycles in Bridgwater,
who seem to have quite a thing for tandems, going by their ads in the
CTC (Cyclists' Touring Club) mag.

Also try the other suppliers listed on the Tandem Club's website -
http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ - and their message boards.

Thanks to all for the addresses. I'm sure I'll find what I want. Now to find
the key to the tandem lock!!!!

Peter Scott