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soldering bicycle brake cable ends
Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been
anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. cheers Roy |
In article ,
roy davidson wrote: Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. You need a flux designed for steel. Something like Baker's soldering fluid. Fluxite - or similar paste type fluxes - are really meant for things like copper or brass. But I'd make sure the wire rope is clean first - it's possible it might have some form of wax applied to prevent corrosion. Cellulose thinners remove most of this sort of thing. I've found an aggressive flux - like Everflux - also works well on steel. I recently made up a throttle cable for the old car with no problems. -- *He who laughs last, thinks slowest. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
In article ,
"roy davidson" writes: Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. Is this to stop the end fraying? What about crimping on a bootlace ferrule, or any crimp which is about the right size? -- Andrew Gabriel |
In message , roy davidson
writes Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. Lots of clean lots of heat (as opposed to temperature) Lots of flux, and then some more -- geoff |
"roy davidson" wrote in message ... Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. cheers Roy You will need to use Braze or Silver Solder, which you will need to use a propane torch. Never done it so can't help any further! |
In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes In article , "roy davidson" writes: Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. Is this to stop the end fraying? What about crimping on a bootlace ferrule, or any crimp which is about the right size? They do make little crimp on ferrules specifically for the end of bike cables, or little it of heat shrink tubing over the end. I've soldered them as well with solder tape, a few wraps and a match and it's done. -- Chris French, Leeds |
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:21:13 +0100, "roy davidson"
wrote: I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. Go to the bike shop and scrounge some crimp ends. They'll crimp with narrow pliers (a narrow crimped band is stronger than an overall flattened tube). If you're a sparkie, then electrician's bootlace ferrules work fine too. Bike cable should soft-solder pretty easily. Degrease it, then use a powerful active flux. Fluxite paste is enough, multicore isn't. If the cable's new and clean you shouldn't need to use Baker's Fluid. A big (=50W iron is useful) If you're obsessive about your bike (about 90% of cyclists) you can form a back splice instead. No one will ever notice, but it's 0.001g lighter than adding that ferrule 8-) For bigger cables than bikes, silver soldering is good. This will also work happily on stainless or phosphor bronze wire cable. You'll need a fluoride based flux, especially on stainless, but the joint is usually very easy to make, so long as the cable's reasonably fresh and clean. If it's old cable that has been out in the weather, either pickle it clean first, or splice it. Don't braze wire cable - it reduces the strength considerably. Wire rope can't be soldered unless you remove any fibre centre core first. Degrease carefully too. -- Smert' spamionam |
roy davidson wrote:
Over the years I have tried to solder various wire ropes, never been anything near successful. I have tried emery cloth to clean the end, greasy flux stuff and different temperatures. I have always found another method to solve the problem at hand. I just want to know how to do it before once again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. cheers Roy Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp. |
again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. cheers Roy Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp. Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to stock one that's long enough. Peter Scott |
Peter Scott wrote :- Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to stock one that's long enough. Try doing a search for Bowden Cable, plenty of results Regards Jeff |
Peter Scott wrote:
Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to stock one that's long enough. An ironmonger may have some or a bicycle shop may have some on the reel.. hard to say. Anyway, you may find that nipples are hard to get these days, most seem to be cast on, and if you warm them up, the metal just splashes off. Have you soldered nipples onto cable before? There's a technique.... |
"Chris Bacon" wrote in message ... Peter Scott wrote: Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to stock one that's long enough. An ironmonger may have some or a bicycle shop may have some on the reel.. hard to say. Anyway, you may find that nipples are hard to get these days, most seem to be cast on, and if you warm them up, the metal just splashes off. Have you soldered nipples onto cable before? There's a technique.... Yes I'm OK on that. Used to work in a bike shop. Peter Scott |
"Jeff" wrote in message .. . Peter Scott wrote :- Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to stock one that's long enough. Try doing a search for Bowden Cable, plenty of results Regards Jeff Good thinking. I had forgotten that's what it was called. Peter Scott |
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:27:41 +0100, "Peter Scott"
wrote: Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? Any bike shop. If you go in the workshop rather than looking on the retail racks, the stuff is on a reel. BTW - brake and gear cable is different and you really shouldn't swap them. If you haven't already, read Sheldon Brown's website http://sheldonbrown.com/diy/ |
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:05:26 +0100, "Jeff" wrote:
Try doing a search for Bowden Cable, plenty of results Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. |
Peter Scott wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote... Have you soldered nipples onto cable before? There's a technique.... Yes I'm OK on that. Used to work in a bike shop. Some years ago I went into a bike shop-cum-hairdressers-cum-barber and asked the young lady whether she'd got brass nipples... she was embarassed. |
Andy Dingley wrote:
Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. Now what. Why? |
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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:52:32 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote: Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. Now what. Why? Bowden (in the strictest sense) cables are designed to accurately transmit a position down a flexible cable. They're appropriate for gearcables. Brake cables are designed to transmit a tensile force. Position is less important, so a certain amount of ghost movement caused by cable flex is acceptable. It would be a problem on a gear cable if you shifted gear every time you moved the bars. As a result of these requirements, the cable outers are constructed differently. Position-sensitive cables are multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket. If you flex this cable, the outer doesn't change length. Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible, and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the apparent fake movement of the inner cable. Using brake cable for gears gives poor shifting that's prone to false shifts and moving gates. The serious implication for bikes is if you use "gear" cable for brakes. Wear on the outer jacket can weaken the integrity of the outer cable such that hard emergency braking can burst it (the wires separate). The inner cable pulls through the gap and you lose your brakes. This is also most likely to happen when you _apply_ the brakes, not in an obvious manner beforehand. |
Andy Dingley wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote: Andy Dingely wrote Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. Now what. Why? Bowden (in the strictest sense) cables are designed to accurately transmit a position down a flexible cable. They're appropriate for gearcables. Brake cables are designed to transmit a tensile force. Position is less important, so a certain amount of ghost movement caused by cable flex is acceptable. It would be a problem on a gear cable if you shifted gear every time you moved the bars. As a result of these requirements, the cable outers are constructed differently. Position-sensitive cables are multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket. If you flex this cable, the outer doesn't change length. Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible, and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the apparent fake movement of the inner cable. Using brake cable for gears gives poor shifting that's prone to false shifts and moving gates. The serious implication for bikes is if you use "gear" cable for brakes. Wear on the outer jacket can weaken the integrity of the outer cable such that hard emergency braking can burst it (the wires separate). The inner cable pulls through the gap and you lose your brakes. This is also most likely to happen when you _apply_ the brakes, not in an obvious manner beforehand. Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely ages. Sorry, but *really*. |
Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote: Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely ages. Sorry, but *really*. I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a bicycle with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket" used on a bicycle. What the hell are these? |
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:09:42 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote: Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely ages. Sorry, but *really*. Hey, it's your head. |
Chris Bacon wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote: Andy Dingley wrote: Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely ages. Sorry, but *really*. I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a bicycle with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket" used on a bicycle. What the hell are these? http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/cable.shtml There are two photographs. One of compressionless gear cable outer---with longitudinal wires---and one of brake cable outer---with spiral, compressible wiring. It's pretty standard stuff. Colin |
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:52:32 +0100, Chris Bacon wrote: Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. Now what. Why? Bowden (in the strictest sense) cables are designed to accurately transmit a position down a flexible cable. They're appropriate for gearcables. Brake cables are designed to transmit a tensile force. Position is less important, so a certain amount of ghost movement caused by cable flex is acceptable. It would be a problem on a gear cable if you shifted gear every time you moved the bars. As a result of these requirements, the cable outers are constructed differently. Position-sensitive cables are multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket. If you flex this cable, the outer doesn't change length. Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible, and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the apparent fake movement of the inner cable. Using brake cable for gears gives poor shifting that's prone to false shifts and moving gates. The serious implication for bikes is if you use "gear" cable for brakes. Wear on the outer jacket can weaken the integrity of the outer cable such that hard emergency braking can burst it (the wires separate). The inner cable pulls through the gap and you lose your brakes. This is also most likely to happen when you _apply_ the brakes, not in an obvious manner beforehand. Hmmm, bowden cables are used for clutches, throttles etc, etc, Frank Bowden was also the founder of Raleigh. I agree there might be different types but they are all Bowden Cables Regards Jeff |
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:23:40 +0100, "Jeff" wrote:
I agree there might be different types but they are all Bowden Cables These things are Victorian in origin. Bowden's innovation and patents' were in finding a way to make them so they'd accurately transmit a position. he was fortunate to do this at a time when expanding aircraft production made a demand for them as control cables. I dare say you can find suitable brake cables "made by Bowden". Some of the Teleflex ones are double layered, one of each wrapping. But in the generic sense, be careful and use the right sort. |
In message , Colin Blackburn
writes Chris Bacon wrote: Chris Bacon wrote: Andy Dingley wrote: Don't use Bowden (or Teleflex) cable for brakes. Well, I don't think I've seen so much utter claptrap for absolutely ages. Sorry, but *really*. I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a bicycle with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket" used on a bicycle. What the hell are these? http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/cable.shtml There are two photographs. One of compressionless gear cable outer---with longitudinal wires---and one of brake cable outer---with spiral, compressible wiring. It's pretty standard stuff. Indeed, and the reason it is used is to keep modern indexed gears working correctly. -- Chris French, Leeds |
"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t... In article , "Peter Scott" says... again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. cheers Roy Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp. Get proper end-caps (cost next to nothing) and just crimp them gently on. It does not need to be soldered. The end-caps are designed to be crimped. Trust me, I've done a great many in my time and they've never come off accidentally (you do want to be able to remove it sometimes to strip the bike down without destroying the cable). a |
"Rob Morley" wrote in message t... In article , "Peter Scott" says... again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. cheers Roy Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp. Anyone know where I can get lengths of cable and some ends? I need to make up a long inner cable for a rear barke on a Peugeot tandem. No-one seems to stock one that's long enough. Longer than 3 meters? Erm.. I'll have to battle to the back of my shed where the tandem has been languishing while I find a cable. I don't think its more than 3m though. However none of the bike shops in Norwich had one long enough when I last did a trawl knowing the actual length. This was the full range from small specialist shops to Halfords. Do you know of an on-line supplier? Peter Scott |
Peter Scott wrote:
... tandem ... This was the full range from small specialist shops to Halfords. Do you know of an on-line supplier? I'd try http://www.sjscycles.com/ - St John Street Cycles in Bridgwater, who seem to have quite a thing for tandems, going by their ads in the CTC (Cyclists' Touring Club) mag. Also try the other suppliers listed on the Tandem Club's website - http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ - and their message boards. HTH - Stefek |
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:37:05 +0100, "Peter Scott"
wrote: However none of the bike shops in Norwich had one long enough when I last did a trawl knowing the actual length. I've _never_ seen a brake or gear cable set that was long enough for a tandem. Tandems are rare, why make it in sets ? If you're a tandemist, then you're expected to be capable of finding a Real LBS with long reels. Now, who knows a good source for Goretex or PTFE-lined gear cables for tandems? I've only seen these in sets, not reels. |
In message , Andy Dingley
writes On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:37:05 +0100, "Peter Scott" wrote: However none of the bike shops in Norwich had one long enough when I last did a trawl knowing the actual length. I've _never_ seen a brake or gear cable set that was long enough for a tandem. Tandems are rare, why make it in sets ? If you're a tandemist, then you're expected to be capable of finding a Real LBS with long reels. Places that deal in Tandems sell the cables. St. John Street Cycles list them for one. http://www.sjscycles.com/ Now, who knows a good source for Goretex or PTFE-lined gear cables for tandems? I've only seen these in sets, not reels. Gore do (or did anyway) brake cable sets for tandems. Dunno about gears -- Chris French, Leeds |
In article ,
Dave Jones wrote: You will need to use Braze or Silver Solder, which you will need to use a propane torch. No. ;-) The heat required for these will weaken the cable - or loose the flexibility. All that's required is to splay out the strands at the nipple and stop them pulling through. The shear strength of soft solder more than matches a 'solderless' nipple of the type which relies on friction. Never done it so can't help any further! -- *A closed mouth gathers no feet.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
In article , "al"
says... "Rob Morley" wrote in message t... In article , "Peter Scott" says... again I'm looking at blobs of solder refusing to bond with the cable. cheers Roy Use acid flux (plumbers) and a blowlamp. Get proper end-caps (cost next to nothing) and just crimp them gently on. It does not need to be soldered. The end-caps are designed to be crimped. He's talking about nipples, not cable tidies. |
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
No. ;-) The heat required for these will weaken the cable - or loose the flexibility. All that's required is to splay out the strands at the nipple and stop them pulling through. The shear strength of soft solder more than matches a 'solderless' nipple of the type which relies on friction. Solderless nipples.... the screw-on type. Dangerous for anything critical IME. You can get cables to solder better by unravelling the end 1 1/2" (not straining the individual wires!), cleaning, and re-winding them before trying to solder. |
chris French wrote:
Colin Blackburn writes Chris Bacon wrote: I re-open this to say that I have never seen a cable used on a bicycle with an outer made of "multiple longitudinal wires in a jacket" used on a bicycle. What the hell are these? http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/cable.shtml There are two photographs. One of compressionless gear cable outer---with longitudinal wires---and one of brake cable outer---with spiral, compressible wiring. It's pretty standard stuff. Indeed, and the reason it is used is to keep modern indexed gears working correctly. Aha! "Modern indexed gears", hmm.... that's why. One would have to be a bit of a dunce to use these cables for brakes! Surely Mr. Blackburn does not mean that the outer of spiral-wound Bowden cable is really compressible? That would sort of render brake cable pretty useless! |
Chris Bacon wrote:
Aha! "Modern indexed gears", hmm.... that's why. One would have to be a bit of a dunce to use these cables for brakes! Surely Mr. Blackburn does not mean that the outer of spiral-wound Bowden cable is really compressible? That would sort of render brake cable pretty useless! It is compressible only in that it isn't compressionless! Since the longitudinally wired outer is designed as a compressionless alternative to the more traditional cable housing, it stands that the original outer isn't compressionless and so must, to some extent, be compressible. The degree of compressibility is, of course, slight, as Andy said: Tension cable outers use a single wire spiral. This is more flexible, and it also changes in length (slightly) if you bend it, causing the apparent fake movement of the inner cable. This effect is used for secondary braking systems (cross levers on the tops of drops) that push outer rather than pull cable. Colin |
Colin Blackburn wrote:
This effect is used for secondary braking systems (cross levers on the tops of drops) that push outer rather than pull cable. Ignore this last line I am talking rubbish. Colin |
Here's a site that does motorcycle cabling and nipples.....
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.c...page/home.html and their prices look pretty good. I've actually bodged my own nipples in the past using either the brass rod section on a redundant Chubb type key or just steel rod cut off the unthreaded section of an old bolt. I had great trouble getting the solder to take to the cable......... in the end, I had to use silver solder and a blowlamp which worked fine. The silver solders a bit pricey..........£5 for a 2' length and it was coated in flux but it should last for ages as I only used about 1" of it. Geoff "Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:23:40 +0100, "Jeff" wrote: I agree there might be different types but they are all Bowden Cables These things are Victorian in origin. Bowden's innovation and patents' were in finding a way to make them so they'd accurately transmit a position. he was fortunate to do this at a time when expanding aircraft production made a demand for them as control cables. I dare say you can find suitable brake cables "made by Bowden". Some of the Teleflex ones are double layered, one of each wrapping. But in the generic sense, be careful and use the right sort. |
"Stefek Zaba" wrote in message ... I'd try http://www.sjscycles.com/ - St John Street Cycles in Bridgwater, who seem to have quite a thing for tandems, going by their ads in the CTC (Cyclists' Touring Club) mag. Also try the other suppliers listed on the Tandem Club's website - http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ - and their message boards. Thanks to all for the addresses. I'm sure I'll find what I want. Now to find the key to the tandem lock!!!! Peter Scott |
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