Thank you guys!!!

.... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?

I've found ebay to have the best prices.

There are a couple big ebay sellers that offer free shipping, and have the
lowest prices I've seen.

-Tom

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?

wrote:
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?

I was amazed at the low prices for Hobart MIG welders on ebay stores.
That's probably where I'll buy.

--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
Fort Worth TX

wrote:
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?



I got my Miller from IOC's store on Ebay.

FWIW, I just bought a Thermal Arc welder, and the best price I got was from
an e-bay seller (Indiana Oxygen) that also offered free shipping. As I
recall, AAA Welding had an excellent price too. Obviously, YMMV depending
on what you're buying.

Peter
wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?

I don't know what the current prices are. When I bought my Hobart Handler
175, these guys were very competitive. It was direct shipped by Miller and I
got it in a couple of days.

http://www.brwelder.com/indextemplat...SubCategory=10

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?


My recommendations from personal experience (first welding course in 1974)
is this:

Buy a machine from a local dealer, a manufacturer or a distributor. This
includes many local shops and Internet businesses. If you buy one on ebay,
it may not have the documentation to qualify for warranty.

There is much much much much much more to buying a welding machine than just
the price or name of the business. If you buy from a local dealer, you have
someone you can go ask questions of. You have somewhere to take it when it
doesn't work right. You have a source of consumables, plus a tekkie to
steer you to the right stuff. You have someone to help you when you get
your Johnson stuck in a crack.

Yes, you can get things cheaper on ebay. But what good is a cheap welder?
X-Mongo brand welder may be cheap, but where do you get consumables, and
where do you take it if you have a problem? And yes, a Miller or Lincoln
bought on ebay may be cheap, but again, where do you take it if you have a
problem. And then, you spend to have it repaired, and you are right up
there in the cost range of a new one.

Spend the money and get a good one from an established business. You will
sleep better, and spend less time involved in hassles, non-shipping sellers,
used and abused equipment, and other varieties of headaches.

Just MHO, and you asked for it.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:cgN0e.4015$AN1.1304@fed1read03...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?


My recommendations from personal experience (first welding course in 1974)
is this:

Buy a machine from a local dealer, a manufacturer or a distributor. This
includes many local shops and Internet businesses. If you buy one on
ebay, it may not have the documentation to qualify for warranty.

(Valid stuff snipped)


As a welding newbie I tried to do what you suggested. I really wanted to
support my local vendors and have been around enough to realize that buying
for price only is short sighted. I live in San Francisco and bought my
first welder from the local well known supply house. As I got to know them,
I realized that most of the folks that worked there didn't know diddly and
didn't stock what I wanted. The guy that did know something wasn't very
pleasant to deal with. I found the same situation at the other big local
supply place.

The next welder I bought, I got online. It was cheaper than if I'd bought
locally, arrived faster (the local guys didn't have what I wanted in stock),
and all the needed paperwork for registration and warrantee arrived with the
welder. I've been getting my supplies online too. And... it's easier to
get advice from the metalworking and welding NG.

I really wanted to support my local welding folks, but they seemed
determined to keep an inexperienced small user at bay.

Peter

Ditto on Indiana Oxygen. Got great price, free shipping, and it showed up
REALLY fast.



wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?

My experience locally was that the first store I went to was full of asses.

The second store I went to was so helpful, that they have a customer for
life. Ten minutes with these guys is worth 10 hours of poking around on the
internet.

I bought my welder (Miller 175) on e-Bay.....I shop for supplies/gas/etc
where the people were most helpful. I live in Houston, so I can afford to
blow off the asses, another shop is around the corner.


"Peter Grey" wrote in message
ink.net...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:cgN0e.4015$AN1.1304@fed1read03...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?


My recommendations from personal experience (first welding course in
1974) is this:

Buy a machine from a local dealer, a manufacturer or a distributor. This
includes many local shops and Internet businesses. If you buy one on
ebay, it may not have the documentation to qualify for warranty.

(Valid stuff snipped)


As a welding newbie I tried to do what you suggested. I really wanted to
support my local vendors and have been around enough to realize that
buying for price only is short sighted. I live in San Francisco and
bought my first welder from the local well known supply house. As I got
to know them, I realized that most of the folks that worked there didn't
know diddly and didn't stock what I wanted. The guy that did know
something wasn't very pleasant to deal with. I found the same situation
at the other big local supply place.

The next welder I bought, I got online. It was cheaper than if I'd bought
locally, arrived faster (the local guys didn't have what I wanted in
stock), and all the needed paperwork for registration and warrantee
arrived with the welder. I've been getting my supplies online too.
And... it's easier to get advice from the metalworking and welding NG.

I really wanted to support my local welding folks, but they seemed
determined to keep an inexperienced small user at bay.

Peter

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you guys!!!

... for all of your advice you gave me on getting
started in the world of welding.

My question now is, where does one get more for ones money,
when buying a welder?

Ebay?
Harbor Freight?
Others?

What are your recommendations from personal experience?


Ebay : Prices to high and a lot of old junk.
Harbor Freight : Only if you buy the hobart brand.
Others : Used machinery dealers usually have good deals on welders.

Try looking he

http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/search/nocache

A lot of the items you see on ebay come from government surplus, eliminate
the middle man
and buy direct from uncle sam. Its easier than you might expect and the
savings are terrific.

Best Regards
Tom.

While I respect your opinion Steve, my experience parallels others.

The local shops are refusing to compete on pricing and the support is
not what you suggest it is.

I tried ALL the shops in my area when I was shopping for multiple
welders AND I was willing to pay extra for local support after the
sale.

They weren't even close nor would they consider adjusting their prices
when asked.

This attitude cost them thousands of dollars in lost sales to this
customer.

As for service after the sale if they are a authorized Lincoln or
Miller depot and they refuse to service an in warranty machine, they
won't be an authorized depot for much longer.

The reality is that anyone can buy a name brand welder like Miller or
Lincoln on Ebay for cheaper than they can get it locally.

The product is drop shipped from the factory and is fully warranteed.

If you have a problem with the welder, the local factory authorized
depot has to service it.

Between the Internet sales eating into the higher end product sales and
the big box stores selling the low end product, the local shops are in
a big squeeze. You can see in the increased price of consumables and
gas where they are getting their profits.

I believe the downside to this is in the future we will see fewer and
fewer local places that will be repair centers and as the industry
consolidation continues, fewer places to get gases. As for the later, I
am waiting for places like Home Depot and Lowes to offer gas refills in
the future.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
While I respect your opinion Steve, my experience parallels others.

The local shops are refusing to compete on pricing and the support is
not what you suggest it is.

I tried ALL the shops in my area when I was shopping for multiple
welders AND I was willing to pay extra for local support after the
sale.

They weren't even close nor would they consider adjusting their prices
when asked.

This attitude cost them thousands of dollars in lost sales to this
customer.

As for service after the sale if they are a authorized Lincoln or
Miller depot and they refuse to service an in warranty machine, they
won't be an authorized depot for much longer.

The reality is that anyone can buy a name brand welder like Miller or
Lincoln on Ebay for cheaper than they can get it locally.

The product is drop shipped from the factory and is fully warranteed.

If you have a problem with the welder, the local factory authorized
depot has to service it.

Between the Internet sales eating into the higher end product sales and
the big box stores selling the low end product, the local shops are in
a big squeeze. You can see in the increased price of consumables and
gas where they are getting their profits.

I believe the downside to this is in the future we will see fewer and
fewer local places that will be repair centers and as the industry
consolidation continues, fewer places to get gases. As for the later, I
am waiting for places like Home Depot and Lowes to offer gas refills in
the future.

TMT

I am sure the local shops are having the same problems that your local
independent auto parts stores have been seeing for decades:

1 - They do not have enough volume to buy direct, so they buy from a
distributor, adding a level of markup
2 - They make their money off industrial acounts for whom time is money,
and price is secondary.
3 - Even if they could sell an item cheaper to make a retail sale, they
see it as a disservice to the industrial customer that pays the bill.
4 - Your local shop has overhead - Lease payments, property tax,
payroll, utilities. The online sellers are probably working out of a
steel building outside of city limits, carrying little or no inventory,
and have no employees. Some of them don't even see the merchandise, it's
just a drop-ship deal. So they can get away with a razor-thin margin and
not look back. Can't do that in a local shop.
5 - Local shops probably make their money on gas first. Equipment and
supplies are secondary. Retail business is a distant 3rd, at best.

The problem for the local shop is that the manufacturers whose product
they carry allow the online guys to whore up the business. I'm sure it's
not much fun running a local shop and competing (or not) with online sales.

Or I could be all wrong - happens a lot
--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Rex,

I think you covered it very well.

The local shops are in a race to the bottom.

As I said earlier, the consolidation of the industry is far from over.

The day the big box stores start selling gas is the day the local shops
are finished.

And before someone jumps in says it can't happen, you might want recall
how you used to have to buy propane and how you do now. Propane refills
are done this way now and the small propane companies are gone.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Rex,

I think you covered it very well.

The local shops are in a race to the bottom.

As I said earlier, the consolidation of the industry is far from over.

The day the big box stores start selling gas is the day the local shops
are finished.

And before someone jumps in says it can't happen, you might want recall
how you used to have to buy propane and how you do now. Propane refills
are done this way now and the small propane companies are gone.

TMT

I dunno, I think a few local shops will survive in any market that has
some industry. Just like the local auto parts store, they can't keep
doing business like they did in the 1960's. They have to innovate,
diversify and provide outstanding service to take price out of the
equation, or at least move it down a couple notches. Some here have
already found stores like that in their local market.

--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:49:51 -0600, Rex B wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Rex,

I think you covered it very well.

The local shops are in a race to the bottom.

As I said earlier, the consolidation of the industry is far from over.

The day the big box stores start selling gas is the day the local shops
are finished.

And before someone jumps in says it can't happen, you might want recall
how you used to have to buy propane and how you do now. Propane refills
are done this way now and the small propane companies are gone.

TMT

I dunno, I think a few local shops will survive in any market that has
some industry. Just like the local auto parts store, they can't keep
doing business like they did in the 1960's. They have to innovate,
diversify and provide outstanding service to take price out of the
equation, or at least move it down a couple notches. Some here have
already found stores like that in their local market.

In my little oil field town, 10 yrs ago, we had 5 welding supply
houses. All strong healthy businesses.

5 yrs ago, it was 3

Now its 1, and they are assholes. They think they have a lock on the
business now. And in some respects they do. Its 35 miles over to
Bakersfield, where there are quite a number of welding supply houses.
So if you need a tank exchange NOW, or perhaps some special rod
tommorow morning...

On the other hand..its Only 35 miles to Bakersfield where there is a
hell of a lot of choices, including the big box stores and Harbor
Freight.

The biggest issue with most welding supplies, is that they are open
only m-f. Only a few are open Saturday until noon.

I suspect if Home Despot started doing tank exchanges...it would dig
into the profit margins of the dealers to a small extent, but it would
only be for the home user. My area, there is about 2 welding machines
in every block..but most others...shrug...

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

Home Depot is already in the gas business. My local store has O2,
acetelyne, nitrogen, argon, CO2 and other gases. Prices are pretty
steep as you have to buy the first tank and then just do an exchange
and pay for the gas like with the propane exchange places. Gas prices
are 20-50% above either of the supply houses that I use normally, but
they sure do have them beat on open hours.

Craig C.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
While I respect your opinion Steve, my experience parallels others.

The local shops are refusing to compete on pricing and the support is
not what you suggest it is.

I tried ALL the shops in my area when I was shopping for multiple
welders AND I was willing to pay extra for local support after the
sale.

They weren't even close nor would they consider adjusting their prices
when asked.

This attitude cost them thousands of dollars in lost sales to this
customer.

As for service after the sale if they are a authorized Lincoln or
Miller depot and they refuse to service an in warranty machine, they
won't be an authorized depot for much longer.

The reality is that anyone can buy a name brand welder like Miller or
Lincoln on Ebay for cheaper than they can get it locally.

The product is drop shipped from the factory and is fully warranteed.

If you have a problem with the welder, the local factory authorized
depot has to service it.

Between the Internet sales eating into the higher end product sales and
the big box stores selling the low end product, the local shops are in
a big squeeze. You can see in the increased price of consumables and
gas where they are getting their profits.

I believe the downside to this is in the future we will see fewer and
fewer local places that will be repair centers and as the industry
consolidation continues, fewer places to get gases. As for the later, I
am waiting for places like Home Depot and Lowes to offer gas refills in
the future.

TMT


Thank you for your well written, calm reply.

My experience is different than perhaps many others. My experience and
training are lengthy , including many certifications, underwater, and being
a steel erection contractor in the State of Nevada for nine years. I worked
for Bannister Pipelines for nine months on the Louisiana Weeks Island Salt
Dome Strategic Oil Reserve project. I worked offshore in the Gulf of
Mexico. I went offshore in Nigeria twice.

My welding career ended before the arrival of the Internet. Thus, I have
had no experience with Internet purchases of welding machines. When I did
buy a Lincoln 175SP+, I went to my old supplier and drove home with it. (I
have the luxury now of not having to shop price.) That is a contradiction,
because I bought another whole home welding shop because I wouldn't pay
$1800 for a security door that I could build for $175. But now, I am
building all sorts of home wrought iron and metal projects.

I commented on something that I would do, not what everyone else should do.
I was wrong. I meant to state that I thought that buying from a reputable
company on the Internet was acceptable, to me at least. I only wanted to
caution about the dangers of buying sight unseen, not being able to try the
machine, and having problems if there is a problem with the purchase. I
know that reputable sellers will back up their machines, and that service
centers are usually pretty lenient about fixing stuff that isn't old and
beat up.

Thank you for correcting me. When someone gets to the point they think they
know it all, they are truly stupid. Pardon my error.

Steve, who still thinks welding is the neatest thing you can do with your
clothes on ...............

"Rex B" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Rex,

I think you covered it very well.

The local shops are in a race to the bottom.

As I said earlier, the consolidation of the industry is far from over.

The day the big box stores start selling gas is the day the local shops
are finished.

And before someone jumps in says it can't happen, you might want recall
how you used to have to buy propane and how you do now. Propane refills
are done this way now and the small propane companies are gone.

TMT

I dunno, I think a few local shops will survive in any market that has
some industry. Just like the local auto parts store, they can't keep doing
business like they did in the 1960's. They have to innovate, diversify and
provide outstanding service to take price out of the equation, or at least
move it down a couple notches. Some here have already found stores like
that in their local market.

--
- -
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive
Fort Worth TX

Yes, they will, where the market it small. In small town Texas, and in
small town, USA. But anywhere there is a larger market, BigBoxItIzation
will prevail.

Just MHO.

Steve