Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old December 13th 18, 02:36 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Centroid M-15 Grief

groupies:,
i am trying to help out a friend of mine; he owns a screw machine shop (yes, he keeps fairly busy, has about 10 mechanical cam machines) and he has purchased a used CNCm, his first.

the machine is an ATRUMP knee mill w/ a Centroid retrofit; purchased from the owner of a closed shop who knew nothing about the machine (yes, i know); price was fairly good ($2900) - the mill itself is very clean, no machining into the table, etc; the control and wiring is very clean also. he moved the unit to his shop, set everything up; powering up the machine resulted in the display showing about 7 ot 8 thin horizontal lines - about 15 seconds later the display started showing "white cloudy" crap from top to bottom of display on the right side moving to fill the screen all the ways to the right; this was only left on for a few minutes, so maybe we should have let it go for awhile longer; this was tried a couple times, and finally shut down. the machine is powered up on 3-phase power (industrial grade shop); no other information was visible on the display.

this, of course, called for removal of the control from it's mount, disconnection of all cabling, and onto the bench. opening up the control showed a fairly clean guts; BUT after poking around a little reveals some cut wires, some dead-ended connections, some "extra wires", etc.; we did not as yet pull a whole lot apart as yet as it requires removal of a lot of interboard/monitor/power supply/front panel connections, and we're not quite ready to do that yet. i am hoping to document as much of the insides as possible w/ jpegs, video, etc in the next few days. i am reading up online as much as possible as i'm not familiar w/ control and we do not want to disturb as much as possible - but to get to all the boards it does require removing quite a it of wire and connectors.

data plate shows;
MODEL M-15
S/N 4776

attempting to document actual board numbers (ie motherboard, etc.) was difficult without complete or almost complete removal. i have downloaded as much info as possible from the web (operators manual, motherboard IDs & photos, etc), but nothing real helpful as yet. my first questions is:

is there a service manual for the centroid controls, wiring diagrams, etc available anywhere (free or otherewise)?

my searching says that possibly there might be a video take-off on the main board to connect an external monitor - so far i cannot see such a thing.

we will need it to figure out the cut wires, disconnected wires, etc. i understand that having centroid do the actual work might be costly, and my friend isn't real bucks-up right now after buying the machine. any assistance, ideas, death threats, etc always welcome.

more as we dive into it.

TIA!
barry, KI7FGE
carson city, nv

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Old December 13th 18, 02:59 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Centroid M-15 Grief

"barry, KI7FGE" wrote in message
...

groupies:,
i am trying to help out a friend of mine; he owns a screw machine shop (yes,
he keeps fairly busy, has about 10 mechanical cam machines) and he has
purchased a used CNCm, his first.

the machine is an ATRUMP knee mill w/ a Centroid retrofit; purchased from
the owner of a closed shop who knew nothing about the machine (yes, i know);
price was fairly good ($2900) - the mill itself is very clean, no machining
into the table, etc; the control and wiring is very clean also. he moved
the unit to his shop, set everything up; powering up the machine resulted in
the display showing about 7 ot 8 thin horizontal lines - about 15 seconds
later the display started showing "white cloudy" crap from top to bottom of
display on the right side moving to fill the screen all the ways to the
right; this was only left on for a few minutes, so maybe we should have let
it go for awhile longer; this was tried a couple times, and finally shut
down. the machine is powered up on 3-phase power (industrial grade shop);
no other information was visible on the display.

this, of course, called for removal of the control from it's mount,
disconnection of all cabling, and onto the bench. opening up the control
showed a fairly clean guts; BUT after poking around a little reveals some
cut wires, some dead-ended connections, some "extra wires", etc.; we did not
as yet pull a whole lot apart as yet as it requires removal of a lot of
interboard/monitor/power supply/front panel connections, and we're not quite
ready to do that yet. i am hoping to document as much of the insides as
possible w/ jpegs, video, etc in the next few days. i am reading up online
as much as possible as i'm not familiar w/ control and we do not want to
disturb as much as possible - but to get to all the boards it does require
removing quite a it of wire and connectors.

data plate shows;
MODEL M-15
S/N 4776

attempting to document actual board numbers (ie motherboard, etc.) was
difficult without complete or almost complete removal. i have downloaded as
much info as possible from the web (operators manual, motherboard IDs &
photos, etc), but nothing real helpful as yet. my first questions is:

is there a service manual for the centroid controls, wiring diagrams, etc
available anywhere (free or otherewise)?

my searching says that possibly there might be a video take-off on the main
board to connect an external monitor - so far i cannot see such a thing.

we will need it to figure out the cut wires, disconnected wires, etc. i
understand that having centroid do the actual work might be costly, and my
friend isn't real bucks-up right now after buying the machine. any
assistance, ideas, death threats, etc always welcome.

more as we dive into it.

TIA!
barry, KI7FGE
carson city, nv

*******************

Its likely those cut and unconnected wires were always such. Centroid makes
controls that can be retrofit to a number of machines, and even retrofit
packages to retrofit other controls. I'm sure they do not make an
individual control for every machine possibility with just enough features
and wires for that application. Unfortunately I have never setup a Centroid
control. The only one I know who has recently is Lloyd Sponenburgh. Sadly
due the noise to signal ration he no longer participates in this group. He
retrofit a Centroid control to a mill that previously had a Heidenhain
controller using a direct replacement "package" from Centroid. You might
try contacting him through the CamBam forum. He's on there almost everyday.

That being said, have you contacted Centroid? They are still around and
have even broken into the hobby market recently with their Acorn controller.
It may cost a little to get manuals and some tech support from them (I don't
know), but it might be worth it in time saved.

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Old December 14th 18, 05:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Centroid M-15 Grief

"barry, KI7FGE" wrote in message
...

There is also a dedicated Centroid users forum.

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Old December 15th 18, 10:45 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Centroid M-15 Grief

hi bob: sorry for the delay, i'm a terminal bone marrow cancer patient, somedays i just don't feel great; just got an infusion thursday of Rituxan (therapy drug) and monday it's my 45th or so blood transfusion.

thank you for your reply; i'll try contacting Centroid themselves and see what they say - it might be the only way to go w/out any docs, or will see if they can supply manuals.

copy on the S/N ratio, i've been here for a long time, but haven't been posting much; things have changed over the last 15 years; i'll see about contacting Lloyd - but this control seems to have '96 datecodes on the boards & a 2001 datecode on the rear panel, and i have not been able to locate any manuals for this control other than operator (which does not have the info i really need). the whole setup is too clean to simply give up on, and Centroid might be the only option - at least w/ them we'll know everything is correct.

saw your post above regarding the plastic injection molding machine; my friend just closed their shop after 24 years; i tried helping him sell his (earlier)
machines but no interest - the equipment eventually went to scrap; sad to see machinery go to the scrapper (read "China") - in this area we have one other option as far as scrappers - use Western Metals Recycling (owned by NUCOR) in Reno - they have a smelter in Utah where they send their scrap to make into new metal, thus the scrap does not go to your "neighborly" Chinese.. these machines were too big for your use, tho.

tnx again Bob, take care,
barry
carson city, nv
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Old December 15th 18, 11:34 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Centroid M-15 Grief

On 13/12/2018 02:36, barry, KI7FGE wrote:
groupies:,
i am trying to help out a friend of mine; he owns a screw machine shop (yes, he keeps fairly busy, has about 10 mechanical cam machines) and he has purchased a used CNCm, his first.

the machine is an ATRUMP knee mill w/ a Centroid retrofit; purchased from the owner of a closed shop who knew nothing about the machine (yes, i know); price was fairly good ($2900) - the mill itself is very clean, no machining into the table, etc; the control and wiring is very clean also. he moved the unit to his shop, set everything up; powering up the machine resulted in the display showing about 7 ot 8 thin horizontal lines - about 15 seconds later the display started showing "white cloudy" crap from top to bottom of display on the right side moving to fill the screen all the ways to the right; this was only left on for a few minutes, so maybe we should have let it go for awhile longer; this was tried a couple times, and finally shut down. the machine is powered up on 3-phase power (industrial grade shop); no other information was visible on the display.

this, of course, called for removal of the control from it's mount, disconnection of all cabling, and onto the bench. opening up the control showed a fairly clean guts; BUT after poking around a little reveals some cut wires, some dead-ended connections, some "extra wires", etc.; we did not as yet pull a whole lot apart as yet as it requires removal of a lot of interboard/monitor/power supply/front panel connections, and we're not quite ready to do that yet. i am hoping to document as much of the insides as possible w/ jpegs, video, etc in the next few days. i am reading up online as much as possible as i'm not familiar w/ control and we do not want to disturb as much as possible - but to get to all the boards it does require removing quite a it of wire and connectors.

data plate shows;
MODEL M-15
S/N 4776

attempting to document actual board numbers (ie motherboard, etc.) was difficult without complete or almost complete removal. i have downloaded as much info as possible from the web (operators manual, motherboard IDs & photos, etc), but nothing real helpful as yet. my first questions is:

is there a service manual for the centroid controls, wiring diagrams, etc available anywhere (free or otherewise)?

my searching says that possibly there might be a video take-off on the main board to connect an external monitor - so far i cannot see such a thing.

we will need it to figure out the cut wires, disconnected wires, etc. i understand that having centroid do the actual work might be costly, and my friend isn't real bucks-up right now after buying the machine. any assistance, ideas, death threats, etc always welcome.

more as we dive into it.

TIA!
barry, KI7FGE
carson city, nv


I don't know anything about Centroid controls but as they're electronic
have you looked for evidence of failed or failing components such as
electrolytic capacitors and other components, also are there socketed
chips as over time oxide can creep along the pin surface and cause
signal degradation. Usually simple to cure by removing and refitting the
chips. I mention the electrolytics as a Samsung flat screen monitor I
have started to play up with flickering and fading so I replaced it and
then took the problem one apart to find that most of the electrolytic
caps in the power supply were bulging and some had leaked so I replaced
them at a cost of about £5 + shipping and an hour of my time and it was
back to as good as new.* Worth a good look.



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Old December 16th 18, 05:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,482
Default Centroid M-15 Grief

wrote in message
...
saw your post above regarding the plastic injection molding machine; my
friend just closed their shop after 24 years; i tried helping him sell his
(earlier)
machines but no interest - the equipment eventually went to scrap; sad to
see machinery go to the scrapper (read "China") - in this area we have one
other option as far as scrappers - use Western Metals Recycling (owned by
NUCOR) in Reno - they have a smelter in Utah where they send their scrap to
make into new metal, thus the scrap does not go to your "neighborly"
Chinese. these machines were too big for your use, tho.
*************

Yeah, I've found a number of machines that claim to be "working" and some
working under power for pretty reasonable prices. Dirt cheap compared to a
new machine in their size classes. The problem is they are all huge. They
would require a massive sacrifice of floor real estate in my shop, and just
wouldn't fit in some of my clients shops at all.

As it turns out the client I am currently working with came to the same
conclusion as I did. To get something "big enough" but not to big to fit he
was going to have to make his own injection machine. He's already
accumulating parts. I have some parts on hand myself. Stuff I bought
because it was a good deal. I didn't even have a plan for some of it. I
just had a couple dollars in my pocket and the stuff was even less. Various
heat controls, heat bands, even a couple cartridge heaters. The one many
thing I don't have handy is some DOM or seamless. (two different things) I
have plenty of rod stock for the piston, and I've even been playing with the
idea of a making a screw injection machine. I've wanted an excuse to make a
proper taper attachment for my lathe anyway.

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Old December 19th 18, 10:47 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,302
Default Centroid M-15 Grief

On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:36:57 -0800 (PST), "barry, KI7FGE"
wrote:

M-15


http://www.cncsnw.com/FieldGuide.htm

http://www.cncsnw.com/FieldGuide.htm

http://www.helmancnc.com/centroid-cn...free-download/
__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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