Home Ownership (misc.consumers.house)

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  #1   Report Post  
ted
 
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Default HOA giving grief about fence

Hi,
Please help us in our new 'situation'. Our HOA is giving us grief over
our fence color. We painted our fence a light oak color stain TWO AND
HALF years ago. The HOA sent us a notice yesterday saying the color is
unacceptable. Our brick color is gray. They said the color of the
fence should go with the color of the brick. And they suggested GRAY
color for our fence.

I think this is ridiculous. First of all, why should I paint my fence
gray and make it look hidious.

We painted it oak color because that matched the original color of the
wood closely and we liked the way it looked against our brick. We
already told them why we chose the stain but they still want us to
change the stain to gray.

Can they wait until two and half years to complain about the stain
color of our fence? Do we have any rights over this? There are dozens
of houses in our neighborhood that didn't stain their fences and let
them rot for years. I don't know why the HOA targeted us. We are very
quiet people and never butt in anyone's business.

Please suggest what we should do. Thanks.
  #3   Report Post  
Jonathan Kamens
 
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Default HOA giving grief about fence

The HOA can do whatever the HOA charter, bylaws, etc. say it
can do. You agreed to abide by the rules of the HOA when you
bought the house. If you want to know what the HOA is
allowed to do, go read the documents; they can tell you
definitively. We can't.

I suppose it's possible that the HOA documents specify a
"statute of limitations" for HOA complaints against homeowner
changes, but I doubt it. In short, it seems likely that the
HOA can, in fact, tell you to change something 2 1/2 years
after the fact.

Perhaps the HOA waited 2 1/2 years to complain because they
were trying to be nice to you -- they waited to tell you to
repaint your fence until the old paint job was starting to
wear and could benefit from being redone. Stain doesn't last
forever.

As for why the HOA targeted you, perhaps the "dozens of houses
in [your] neighborhood that didn't stain their fences" aren't
in violation of HOA rules, at least not in the opinion of the
HOA board. After all, when unstained wood weathers, it turns
a grey that some people find attractive; the fact that the HOA
is suggesting that you paint your fence grey to match your
house lends credence to this theory.

It's also possible that there's a busy-body in your
neighborhood who makes it his/her business to file HOA
complaints about anyone he/she thinks is violating the rules.
In fact, there may be people on the HOA board who look for
violations.

It's also possible that you made an enemy in your
neighborhood. Just because you think you never bother other
people, doesn't mean everyone else in your neighborhood
thinks that.

Finally, I doubt you have any way of knowing that the HOA
"targeted" you; do you know for a fact that they haven't
attempted to enforce the HOA rules on others in your
neighborhood?

You wrote, "Please suggest what we should do." What you
should do is check with the HOA before making externally
visible changes to your property. You didn't, and they have
the right to demand that you bring your property into
conformance. I think what you should do is repaint your
fence.
  #4   Report Post  
Dave C.
 
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Default HOA giving grief about fence

And some people are stupid enough to claim that HOAs are a GOOD thing, that
should NOT be outlawed. Sheesh. -Dave


  #5   Report Post  
Jonathan Kamens
 
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Default HOA giving grief about fence

Please don't feed the troll.


  #6   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

I will newer figure out the Americans.
First they send armies all over the world to fight communism and then they buy
into a communistic housing.
Retards at minimum.
-Sub

  #7   Report Post  
Betsy
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

Having real estate lawyers for a father, grandfather, uncle and cousin, and
a DA cousin, I can tell you that you need an attorney that specializes in
real estate to sort this all out for you. Real estate law is complicated
and you can get yourself into a real mess if you are not careful. Good
luck.

"ted" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Please help us in our new 'situation'. Our HOA is giving us grief over
our fence color. We painted our fence a light oak color stain TWO AND
HALF years ago. The HOA sent us a notice yesterday saying the color is
unacceptable. Our brick color is gray. They said the color of the
fence should go with the color of the brick. And they suggested GRAY
color for our fence.

I think this is ridiculous. First of all, why should I paint my fence
gray and make it look hidious.

We painted it oak color because that matched the original color of the
wood closely and we liked the way it looked against our brick. We
already told them why we chose the stain but they still want us to
change the stain to gray.

Can they wait until two and half years to complain about the stain
color of our fence? Do we have any rights over this? There are dozens
of houses in our neighborhood that didn't stain their fences and let
them rot for years. I don't know why the HOA targeted us. We are very
quiet people and never butt in anyone's business.

Please suggest what we should do. Thanks.



  #8   Report Post  
steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

Typically HOAs require that external modifications to your property be
approved by a 'design review' committee. This usually requires you to
submit plans that include drawings, dimensions and color schemes for
fences, etc. It sounds worse than it is -- in my case our association
wants drawings, dimensions, and color schemes (3 copies so they can file
one and give the others to the committee for review.) There is no charge
for submitting plans for approval and the committee typically gives you
a decision very quickly.

If you already got approval then you should be ok, but if you didn't
then you may have to file for approval after the fact and make the color
changes they are asking for unless you can get the committee to sign off
on the color you prefer. The committee is probably made up of homeowner
volunteers from your community who have been appointed by the HOA Board
of Directors. I am afraid that there is typically no 'statute of
limitations' in these matters, so the fact that the fence has been up
for 2 1/2 years probably won't offer you any relaxation in what ever
rules may be in place.

If there is no committee then I am not sure who you should talk to at
your HOA to resolve the issue -- I hope this is not the case.

I don't see the need for a lawyer here. The community CC&R's probably
give the HOA complete power to rule on this kind of issue, and at any
rate the cost of the fence is probably less than what you would end up
paying to litigate the matter even if there was a case.

Try to keep things friendly with whomever you communicate with, it
maximizes your chance to get a good result.

The color scheme you used for the fence sounds very nice to me -- I hope
you are able to work things out. (Heck its not like you painted the
fence 'hard rock hotel' purple!!!)

Best of luck in resolving the issue,

steve




ted wrote:
Hi,
Please help us in our new 'situation'. Our HOA is giving us grief over
our fence color. We painted our fence a light oak color stain TWO AND
HALF years ago. The HOA sent us a notice yesterday saying the color is
unacceptable. Our brick color is gray. They said the color of the
fence should go with the color of the brick. And they suggested GRAY
color for our fence.

I think this is ridiculous. First of all, why should I paint my fence
gray and make it look hidious.

We painted it oak color because that matched the original color of the
wood closely and we liked the way it looked against our brick. We
already told them why we chose the stain but they still want us to
change the stain to gray.

Can they wait until two and half years to complain about the stain
color of our fence? Do we have any rights over this? There are dozens
of houses in our neighborhood that didn't stain their fences and let
them rot for years. I don't know why the HOA targeted us. We are very
quiet people and never butt in anyone's business.

Please suggest what we should do. Thanks.


  #9   Report Post  
Dave C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

HOAs can be a good thing, but if YOU cannot abide by their rules, then
don't ever buy into an HOA


How would anybody abide by their rules, when the HOAs just pull rules out of
their asses? Yeah, there's probably some language on the books that says
the HOA can force you to paint your fence. It's the asinine enforcement
that gets ya, though. Anybody who'd buy into an HOA needs professional
help, and NOT from someone the HOA refers them to. -Dave


  #10   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

Don't feed the troll?
And who is gone drink the blood of the women and children you have bring home on
the tips of your bayonets from your endless crusades against the communists and
terrorist only to join them in HOA and sing "God bless America"?
-Sub





"Jonathan Kamens" wrote in message
...
Please don't feed the troll.




  #11   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:17:27 GMT, "Dave C."
wrote:

How would anybody abide by their rules, when the HOAs just pull rules out of
their asses?


You might be able to find out if you could pull your head out of
yours!
  #12   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"Betsy" -0 wrote in message
...
Having real estate lawyers for a father, grandfather, uncle and cousin, and
a DA cousin, I can tell you that you need an attorney that specializes in
real estate to sort this all out for you. Real estate law is complicated
and you can get yourself into a real mess if you are not careful. Good
luck.

So you buy your castle and you need good lawyer to live in it?
Only in America, having American HOA dream.
-Sub

  #13   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"steve" wrote in message
...
Typically HOAs require that external modifications to your property be
approved by a 'design review' committee. This usually requires you to
submit plans that include drawings, dimensions and color schemes for
fences, etc. It sounds worse than it is -- in my case our association
wants drawings, dimensions, and color schemes (3 copies so they can file
one and give the others to the committee for review.) There is no charge
for submitting plans for approval and the committee typically gives you
a decision very quickly.

If you already got approval then you should be ok, but if you didn't
then you may have to file for approval after the fact and make the color
changes they are asking for unless you can get the committee to sign off
on the color you prefer. The committee is probably made up of homeowner
volunteers from your community who have been appointed by the HOA Board
of Directors. I am afraid that there is typically no 'statute of
limitations' in these matters, so the fact that the fence has been up
for 2 1/2 years probably won't offer you any relaxation in what ever
rules may be in place.

If there is no committee then I am not sure who you should talk to at
your HOA to resolve the issue -- I hope this is not the case.

I don't see the need for a lawyer here. The community CC&R's probably
give the HOA complete power to rule on this kind of issue, and at any
rate the cost of the fence is probably less than what you would end up
paying to litigate the matter even if there was a case.

Try to keep things friendly with whomever you communicate with, it
maximizes your chance to get a good result.

The color scheme you used for the fence sounds very nice to me -- I hope
you are able to work things out. (Heck its not like you painted the
fence 'hard rock hotel' purple!!!)

Best of luck in resolving the issue,

steve



Have you ever try to enforce your righteous theories in the court of law?
Try it!
You may finally mature by doing so, child.
-Sub

  #14   Report Post  
Clark W. Griswold, Jr.
 
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Default HOA giving grief about fence

Bert Hyman wrote:

First of all, why should I paint my fence
gray and make it look hidious.


Because you chose to live in a development with a Home Owner's
Association.


And more importantly, you agreed to follow the HOA rules. You have read the HOA
rules, right?
  #15   Report Post  
frankg
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:24:58 GMT, "Subcomandante" wrote:


"steve" wrote in message
...
Typically HOAs require that external modifications to your property be
approved by a 'design review' committee. This usually requires you to
submit plans that include drawings, dimensions and color schemes for
fences, etc. It sounds worse than it is -- in my case our association
wants drawings, dimensions, and color schemes (3 copies so they can file
one and give the others to the committee for review.) There is no charge
for submitting plans for approval and the committee typically gives you
a decision very quickly.

If you already got approval then you should be ok, but if you didn't
then you may have to file for approval after the fact and make the color
changes they are asking for unless you can get the committee to sign off
on the color you prefer. The committee is probably made up of homeowner
volunteers from your community who have been appointed by the HOA Board
of Directors. I am afraid that there is typically no 'statute of
limitations' in these matters, so the fact that the fence has been up
for 2 1/2 years probably won't offer you any relaxation in what ever
rules may be in place.

If there is no committee then I am not sure who you should talk to at
your HOA to resolve the issue -- I hope this is not the case.

I don't see the need for a lawyer here. The community CC&R's probably
give the HOA complete power to rule on this kind of issue, and at any
rate the cost of the fence is probably less than what you would end up
paying to litigate the matter even if there was a case.

Try to keep things friendly with whomever you communicate with, it
maximizes your chance to get a good result.

The color scheme you used for the fence sounds very nice to me -- I hope
you are able to work things out. (Heck its not like you painted the
fence 'hard rock hotel' purple!!!)

Best of luck in resolving the issue,

steve



Have you ever try to enforce your righteous theories in the court of law?
Try it!
You may finally mature by doing so, child.
-Sub



Sub, I don't know what your problem is but I thought Steve's answer
was more factual and informative than your flaming remarks. Maybe you
need experience living in an HOA community to speak from experience.


  #16   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"Clark W. Griswold, Jr." wrote in message
...
Bert Hyman wrote:

First of all, why should I paint my fence
gray and make it look hidious.


Because you chose to live in a development with a Home Owner's
Association.


And more importantly, you agreed to follow the HOA rules. You have read the

HOA
rules, right?

Have you try to enforce them in the court of law?
-Sub

  #17   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"frankg" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:24:58 GMT, "Subcomandante"

wrote:


"steve" wrote in message
...
Typically HOAs require that external modifications to your property be
approved by a 'design review' committee. This usually requires you to
submit plans that include drawings, dimensions and color schemes for
fences, etc. It sounds worse than it is -- in my case our association
wants drawings, dimensions, and color schemes (3 copies so they can file
one and give the others to the committee for review.) There is no charge
for submitting plans for approval and the committee typically gives you
a decision very quickly.

If you already got approval then you should be ok, but if you didn't
then you may have to file for approval after the fact and make the color
changes they are asking for unless you can get the committee to sign off
on the color you prefer. The committee is probably made up of homeowner
volunteers from your community who have been appointed by the HOA Board
of Directors. I am afraid that there is typically no 'statute of
limitations' in these matters, so the fact that the fence has been up
for 2 1/2 years probably won't offer you any relaxation in what ever
rules may be in place.

If there is no committee then I am not sure who you should talk to at
your HOA to resolve the issue -- I hope this is not the case.

I don't see the need for a lawyer here. The community CC&R's probably
give the HOA complete power to rule on this kind of issue, and at any
rate the cost of the fence is probably less than what you would end up
paying to litigate the matter even if there was a case.

Try to keep things friendly with whomever you communicate with, it
maximizes your chance to get a good result.

The color scheme you used for the fence sounds very nice to me -- I hope
you are able to work things out. (Heck its not like you painted the
fence 'hard rock hotel' purple!!!)

Best of luck in resolving the issue,

steve



Have you ever try to enforce your righteous theories in the court of law?
Try it!
You may finally mature by doing so, child.
-Sub



Sub, I don't know what your problem is but I thought Steve's answer
was more factual and informative than your flaming remarks. Maybe you
need experience living in an HOA community to speak from experience.

Unless you have ever try to enforce your rights based on the CC&Rs and R&R in
the court of law you just blowing hat air. They are meaningless to you as a
homeowner. In contrast the association can fry you with them.
-Sub

  #18   Report Post  
Larry Bud
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

Having real estate lawyers for a father, grandfather, uncle and cousin, and
a DA cousin, I can tell you that you need an attorney that specializes in
real estate to sort this all out for you.


Obviously you're biased towards lawyers.

Just read the damn HOA documents and see what the statute of
limitations is, and whether or not they can dictate the color of a
fence.
  #19   Report Post  
Christopher Green
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

"Betsy" -0 wrote in message ...
Having real estate lawyers for a father, grandfather, uncle and cousin, and
a DA cousin, I can tell you that you need an attorney that specializes in
real estate to sort this all out for you. Real estate law is complicated
and you can get yourself into a real mess if you are not careful. Good
luck.


That would be true if you were determined to breach the CC&Rs and keep
the fence color over the HOA's objections, or if you had a suit-happy
HOA that threatened to file liens over every alleged violation.

If the OP is still interested in cooperating with the HOA, then
there's no reason to escalate it to lawyer involvement. But if the OP
wishes to make the case that the HOA is bound not to enforce the CC&Rs
against him, say because they have not enforced against other
homeowners with similar fences, then you're right, he needs
professional assistance.

--
Chris Green
  #20   Report Post  
Betsy
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

No, I'm not really. I never knew that lawyers could have a bad reputation,
because I grew up with honest upright relatives, who wouldn't even take
divorce cases, and turned down more cases than they took, and forgot to bill
or to collect routinely.

However, I worked for an "accident attorney" when I was 23 and believe me,
my eyes were opened fast.

I still stand by my advice. Contract law and Real Estate law are
complicated things, and it is for precisely that reason that these attorneys
exist.

In the Law, wording is EVERYTHING. And you may not understand what the
legal definition of a word is, in your state, in your county. The HOA may
not have a leg to stand on, based on the document you signed. A lawyer may
be able to find you a loophole, if all else fails!

Do you remember Bill Clinton's defense when asked a pointed question?
"Depends on how you define IS". He knew whereof he spoke, as he was an
attorney!


"Larry Bud" wrote in message
om...
Having real estate lawyers for a father, grandfather, uncle and cousin,

and
a DA cousin, I can tell you that you need an attorney that specializes

in
real estate to sort this all out for you.


Obviously you're biased towards lawyers.

Just read the damn HOA documents and see what the statute of
limitations is, and whether or not they can dictate the color of a
fence.





  #21   Report Post  
John D
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

It might help if you could get all the neighbors within viewing distance of
the fence to sign a petition saying your fence color is ok with them. Than,
very nicely, ask the board to approve your fence color. Ass kissing and
groveling may be neccessary. It's the price of HOA liveing. Otherwise, paint
the fence whatever color they want.
"ted" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Please help us in our new 'situation'. Our HOA is giving us grief over
our fence color. We painted our fence a light oak color stain TWO AND
HALF years ago. The HOA sent us a notice yesterday saying the color is
unacceptable. Our brick color is gray. They said the color of the
fence should go with the color of the brick. And they suggested GRAY
color for our fence.

I think this is ridiculous. First of all, why should I paint my fence
gray and make it look hidious.

We painted it oak color because that matched the original color of the
wood closely and we liked the way it looked against our brick. We
already told them why we chose the stain but they still want us to
change the stain to gray.

Can they wait until two and half years to complain about the stain
color of our fence? Do we have any rights over this? There are dozens
of houses in our neighborhood that didn't stain their fences and let
them rot for years. I don't know why the HOA targeted us. We are very
quiet people and never butt in anyone's business.

Please suggest what we should do. Thanks.



  #22   Report Post  
v
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:54:42 -0500, someone wrote:

It might help if you could get all the neighbors within viewing distance of
the fence to sign a petition saying your fence color is ok with them.


Or it may turn out that some of these very same neighbors are the ones
who complained to the HOA.

-v.
  #23   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"v" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:54:42 -0500, someone wrote:

It might help if you could get all the neighbors within viewing distance of
the fence to sign a petition saying your fence color is ok with them.


Or it may turn out that some of these very same neighbors are the ones
who complained to the HOA.

-v.

In the socialistic driven clique the later is most likely.
-Sub

  #24   Report Post  
Linda
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

Hey Sub, Lay Off. Steve and Frank are right. And I HAVE tried
enforcing my CC&R rights and HAVE been successful. Diplomacy and a
little bit of legal research was the key for me. Anyone looking to
fight HOA's on something like this might consider:

1)Engage other community members-We formed a committee. We started
with four people and grew to about 35 in three weeks. Hold regular
meetings. If you don't know how to start just invite a few neighbors
who've had issues with your HOA over for cake, coffee, and a gripe
session.

2)Read ALL your community documents (Articles of Incorporation,
Bylaws, & Declarations) and look for ambiguous language (i.e.
"aesthetically pleasing" "reasonable length of time" "matching
colors", etc.), as well as how rules are enforced (fines, recourse you
may have, etc.). If you don't have these documents, your HOA is
required to give them to you, though there could be a charge if
you've already been sent them before. (this amountis often regulated
by State Statutes, so don't let them charge you 50 cents a page or
something).

3)Look up your State Statutes, including State Senate Bills and House
Bills, which include recent amendments to statutes. It's all on the
Internet. I found something in the AZ Senate Bills that allows for a
special Appeals committee, where the homeowner is involved in choosing
two of the three committee members (one the homeowner chooses, one the
HOA chooses, and one is chosesn by both).

4)Do open petitions and letters to the community about your concerns
to get the word out.

5)Look up in your Articles of Incorporation and State Statutes how to
remove an abusive or incompetent Board member.

There's more, but that's a start--

Signed, "Not Full of Hot Air"
  #25   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"Linda" wrote in message
om...
Hey Sub, Lay Off. Steve and Frank are right. And I HAVE tried
enforcing my CC&R rights and HAVE been successful. Diplomacy and a
little bit of legal research was the key for me. Anyone looking to
fight HOA's on something like this might consider:

1)Engage other community members-We formed a committee. We started
with four people and grew to about 35 in three weeks. Hold regular
meetings. If you don't know how to start just invite a few neighbors
who've had issues with your HOA over for cake, coffee, and a gripe
session.

2)Read ALL your community documents (Articles of Incorporation,
Bylaws, & Declarations) and look for ambiguous language (i.e.
"aesthetically pleasing" "reasonable length of time" "matching
colors", etc.), as well as how rules are enforced (fines, recourse you
may have, etc.). If you don't have these documents, your HOA is
required to give them to you, though there could be a charge if
you've already been sent them before. (this amountis often regulated
by State Statutes, so don't let them charge you 50 cents a page or
something).

3)Look up your State Statutes, including State Senate Bills and House
Bills, which include recent amendments to statutes. It's all on the
Internet. I found something in the AZ Senate Bills that allows for a
special Appeals committee, where the homeowner is involved in choosing
two of the three committee members (one the homeowner chooses, one the
HOA chooses, and one is chosesn by both).

4)Do open petitions and letters to the community about your concerns
to get the word out.

5)Look up in your Articles of Incorporation and State Statutes how to
remove an abusive or incompetent Board member.

There's more, but that's a start--

Signed, "Not Full of Hot Air"



You must understand Linda,
I am beyond the Bolshevik approach to the HOA problems which you are proposing.
To me the bottom line is:
Am I landlord or not?.....
Am I free or not?......
Am I in servitude or not?......
If the answer is yes an abolishment of the HOA is the only answer.
Uplift yourselves above the bolshevism people!
Freedom is the all!
-Sub



  #26   Report Post  
Alan Beagley
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

The problem is that more and more newer homes are in subdivisions with
HOAs. Then the only choice is to buy older.

-=-
Alan


On 10/24/03 11:25 am Bill Seurer put fingers to keyboard and launched
the following message into cyberspace:

I am beyond the Bolshevik approach to the HOA problems which you are
proposing.
To me the bottom line is:
Am I landlord or not?.....
Am I free or not?......
Am I in servitude or not?......
If the answer is yes an abolishment of the HOA is the only answer.


If you don't like HOA then don't sign into one. Period.


  #27   Report Post  
Bill Seurer
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

Subcomandante wrote:

I am beyond the Bolshevik approach to the HOA problems which you are proposing.
To me the bottom line is:
Am I landlord or not?.....
Am I free or not?......
Am I in servitude or not?......
If the answer is yes an abolishment of the HOA is the only answer.


If you don't like HOA then don't sign into one. Period.

  #28   Report Post  
Doug Miller
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

In article , Alan Beagley wrote:
The problem is that more and more newer homes are in subdivisions with
HOAs. Then the only choice is to buy older.


If you want something that was well-made, that's your only choice anyway.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
  #29   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"Bill Seurer" wrote in message
...
Subcomandante wrote:

I am beyond the Bolshevik approach to the HOA problems which you are

proposing.
To me the bottom line is:
Am I landlord or not?.....
Am I free or not?......
Am I in servitude or not?......
If the answer is yes an abolishment of the HOA is the only answer.


If you don't like HOA then don't sign into one. Period.


In this famous and proudly (free?) country, there should newer be a document
submitted to you for signing which states:

"The covenants and restrictions in the declaration shall be enforceable
equitable servitudes" Cal. Civil Code 1354(a)"

Although you have no problem to sign such document and live like slave tied into
a servitude, I do. But, you are probably one of these idiots who will say:
"Search me without a warrant, I have noting to hide" too. You are probably the
obedient American Bolshevik.
-Sub


  #30   Report Post  
me
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"Subcomandante" wrote in message
...

"Bill Seurer" wrote in message
...
Subcomandante wrote:

I am beyond the Bolshevik approach to the HOA problems which you are

proposing.
To me the bottom line is:
Am I landlord or not?.....
Am I free or not?......
Am I in servitude or not?......
If the answer is yes an abolishment of the HOA is the only answer.


If you don't like HOA then don't sign into one. Period.


In this famous and proudly (free?) country, there should newer be a

document
submitted to you for signing which states:

"The covenants and restrictions in the declaration shall be enforceable
equitable servitudes" Cal. Civil Code 1354(a)"



Then don't sign it -- and don't move there -- why insist on making
yourself a victim?






  #31   Report Post  
JD
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , Alan Beagley

wrote:
The problem is that more and more newer homes are in subdivisions with
HOAs. Then the only choice is to buy older.


If you want something that was well-made, that's your only choice anyway.


That's quite a sweeping and often untrue statement.


  #32   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"me" wrote in message
...

"Subcomandante" wrote in message
...

"Bill Seurer" wrote in message
...
Subcomandante wrote:

I am beyond the Bolshevik approach to the HOA problems which you are

proposing.
To me the bottom line is:
Am I landlord or not?.....
Am I free or not?......
Am I in servitude or not?......
If the answer is yes an abolishment of the HOA is the only answer.

If you don't like HOA then don't sign into one. Period.


In this famous and proudly (free?) country, there should newer be a

document
submitted to you for signing which states:

"The covenants and restrictions in the declaration shall be enforceable
equitable servitudes" Cal. Civil Code 1354(a)"



Then don't sign it -- and don't move there -- why insist on making
yourself a victim?


You Bolsheviks will newer get it will you?
According to you any scam is a game. Huh?
My Social security card clearly states: "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES --
NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION".
Yet thanks to idiots like you, I must use it as my ID like it or not, law or
not.
When ever you will understand a morality of the business.
As long as you will sign CC&Rs, I must to sign them too, like it or not.
As long as you are willing to be a slave I must be one too.
It is called a society.
The only solutions is to educate 90% of American moron mongoloids to read the
constitution and then live by it words.
-Sub








  #33   Report Post  
v
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:06:27 GMT, someone wrote:


Yet thanks to idiots like you, I must use it as my ID like it or not, law or
not.
When ever you will understand a morality of the business.
As long as you will sign CC&Rs, I must to sign them too, like it or not.
As long as you are willing to be a slave I must be one too.


Crackpot nutcase.

Internet full of them.

-v.

  #34   Report Post  
Subcomandante
 
Posts: n/a
Default HOA giving grief about fence


"v" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:06:27 GMT, someone wrote:


Yet thanks to idiots like you, I must use it as my ID like it or not, law or
not.
When ever you will understand a morality of the business.
As long as you will sign CC&Rs, I must to sign them too, like it or not.
As long as you are willing to be a slave I must be one too.


Crackpot nutcase.

Internet full of them.

-v.

That is why you are participating?
-Sub

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