I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
news I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.


Faced with a simular situation once upon a time i found
that a shop vac removed most of the little buggers and
greatly reduced sliver removal tasks.

Best Regards
Tom.


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On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:18:36 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.

Becasue I'm forced to use miniscule chip loads, I get stuck with those
*&^%$ little needles all the time. I haven't found any really good
solution. I use a shop vac, chip brush & towels to grab the parts.
I'm afraid of using compressed air - I don't want to spread those
needles all over the place. A stero microscope comes in very handy
when I can't see them naked-eye to pull them out.

Hopefully someone knows of something better.


--
Email address is a Spam trap.

Bob La Londe wrote:
I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.




Shop vac first. If this is CNC work get a thick pair of nitrile gloves.
They will fit like a second skin and if you did get snagged they will
tear apart easily.

--
Steve W.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news
I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.
================================================== ====

I've never done this, just thinking out loud, so this is worth what you are
paying :-). Since you are removing the part there are no alignment or
repeatability issues so can you use a pair of pliers (channel locks with the
longest handles you have) or even one of those "grabber" wands with rubber
tips if the parts are light enough? You could put rubber tubing over the
plier jaws if you don't have any actual soft jaw pliers. Shop vac
everything you can, then lift the part out and go directly into the parts
washer for rinsing without touching it (or into a box and then into the
washer later but again, using pliers or gloves to handle the parts until
washed).

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles.

Yup, classic problem, I've had it, too. I don't think thin gloves will
really help, the needles will likely go right through. You may be able to
vacuum the work area first, then pass a magnet over the work and fixture to
pick up more. Then, wipe the part down with a paper towel with something
like LPS-1 on it to pick up the last needles.

I'd love to know what the pros do about this.

Jon

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 14:18:57 -0500, Bill wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:18:36 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.

Becasue I'm forced to use miniscule chip loads, I get stuck with those
*&^%$ little needles all the time. I haven't found any really good
solution. I use a shop vac, chip brush & towels to grab the parts.
I'm afraid of using compressed air - I don't want to spread those
needles all over the place. A stero microscope comes in very handy
when I can't see them naked-eye to pull them out.

Hopefully someone knows of something better.

I used barrier cream in the past. It kept the chips that haven't yet
embedded from doing so, and you just wash it off with water.

For the past 20 years, though, I've used the thin grloves that Steve
recommends. The tough, industrial nitrile gloves are a lot better than
the Home Depot painter's gloves.

But I just do fairly light hobby machining. When I worked in a job
shop, I used barrier cream and it actually did a pretty good job.

BTW, if you have embedded steel chips and you need an MRI, you're
screwed.

--
Ed Huntress

On 3/9/2018 1:49 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 14:18:57 -0500, Bill wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:18:36 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.
Becasue I'm forced to use miniscule chip loads, I get stuck with those
*&^%$ little needles all the time. I haven't found any really good
solution. I use a shop vac, chip brush & towels to grab the parts.
I'm afraid of using compressed air - I don't want to spread those
needles all over the place. A stero microscope comes in very handy
when I can't see them naked-eye to pull them out.

Hopefully someone knows of something better.
I used barrier cream in the past. It kept the chips that haven't yet
embedded from doing so, and you just wash it off with water.

For the past 20 years, though, I've used the thin grloves that Steve
recommends. The tough, industrial nitrile gloves are a lot better than
the Home Depot painter's gloves.

But I just do fairly light hobby machining. When I worked in a job
shop, I used barrier cream and it actually did a pretty good job.

BTW, if you have embedded steel chips and you need an MRI, you're
screwed.

Â* Look at the bright side - you won't have any embedded chips when you
come out !

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 15:33:23 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 3/9/2018 1:49 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 14:18:57 -0500, Bill wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:18:36 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.
Becasue I'm forced to use miniscule chip loads, I get stuck with those
*&^%$ little needles all the time. I haven't found any really good
solution. I use a shop vac, chip brush & towels to grab the parts.
I'm afraid of using compressed air - I don't want to spread those
needles all over the place. A stero microscope comes in very handy
when I can't see them naked-eye to pull them out.

Hopefully someone knows of something better.
I used barrier cream in the past. It kept the chips that haven't yet
embedded from doing so, and you just wash it off with water.

For the past 20 years, though, I've used the thin grloves that Steve
recommends. The tough, industrial nitrile gloves are a lot better than
the Home Depot painter's gloves.

But I just do fairly light hobby machining. When I worked in a job
shop, I used barrier cream and it actually did a pretty good job.

BTW, if you have embedded steel chips and you need an MRI, you're
screwed.

* Look at the bright side - you won't have any embedded chips when you
come out !

That can be true! However, you can imagine the consequences. g

Actually, there are three possible things that can happen, the first
with ferromagnetic or non-ferromagnetic metal and the other two with
ferromagnetic material. These are not counting the fact that any metal
is likely to blue the MRI image and can make it useless.

The first is heating, which depends on the frequency coupling of the
chip with the metal. It's very unlikely, but it has happened.

The second is polar alignment of the chips. Ouch. They can develop
quite a lot of torque under your skin.

The third is the result of extreme attraction of the chips to the MRI
magnets. It can literally rip them out of your skin.

Don't panic; all three are unlikely. But a chip in your eye that is
otherwise benign can blind you for life if subjected to the pull of an
MRI.

So take it seriously. And make sure they have metal detectors on hand
and use them if you tell them that you machine metal.

--
Ed Huntress

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 12:18:36 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:


However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do?



magnet in a plastic bag. Should be able to attract the steel needles to the plastic bag and then remove the magnet from the bag so you can dump the needles in to the trash.

Have not done this but ought to work.

Dan

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 14:34:34 -0500, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news
I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.
================================================= =====

I've never done this, just thinking out loud, so this is worth what you are
paying :-). Since you are removing the part there are no alignment or
repeatability issues so can you use a pair of pliers (channel locks with the
longest handles you have) or even one of those "grabber" wands with rubber
tips if the parts are light enough? You could put rubber tubing over the
plier jaws if you don't have any actual soft jaw pliers. Shop vac
everything you can, then lift the part out and go directly into the parts
washer for rinsing without touching it (or into a box and then into the
washer later but again, using pliers or gloves to handle the parts until
washed).

I've heard of duct tape being used for tiny cactus spines. Not a
preventive measure, but maybe it'd help get them out of your hide.

When I get steel slivers, they don't seem to bother me that long.
Stainless are bad, though.

Pete Keillor

On Fri, 09 Mar 2018 13:40:54 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote:

Can you use a few more exclamation points, Bob? I don't think we
quite grasp what you are exclaiming.


I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles.

Yup, classic problem, I've had it, too. I don't think thin gloves will
really help, the needles will likely go right through. You may be able to
vacuum the work area first, then pass a magnet over the work and fixture to
pick up more. Then, wipe the part down with a paper towel with something
like LPS-1 on it to pick up the last needles.

I think Pete clued us to the answer: duct tape gloves.


I'd love to know what the pros do about this.

They hire underlings to get =their= hands spiny.

--
Silence is more musical than any song.
-- Christina Rossetti

On Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:00:39 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 15:33:23 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 3/9/2018 1:49 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 14:18:57 -0500, Bill wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:18:36 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.
Becasue I'm forced to use miniscule chip loads, I get stuck with those
*&^%$ little needles all the time. I haven't found any really good
solution. I use a shop vac, chip brush & towels to grab the parts.
I'm afraid of using compressed air - I don't want to spread those
needles all over the place. A stero microscope comes in very handy
when I can't see them naked-eye to pull them out.

Hopefully someone knows of something better.
I used barrier cream in the past. It kept the chips that haven't yet
embedded from doing so, and you just wash it off with water.

For the past 20 years, though, I've used the thin grloves that Steve
recommends. The tough, industrial nitrile gloves are a lot better than
the Home Depot painter's gloves.

But I just do fairly light hobby machining. When I worked in a job
shop, I used barrier cream and it actually did a pretty good job.

BTW, if you have embedded steel chips and you need an MRI, you're
screwed.

* Look at the bright side - you won't have any embedded chips when you
come out !

That can be true! However, you can imagine the consequences. g

Actually, there are three possible things that can happen, the first
with ferromagnetic or non-ferromagnetic metal and the other two with
ferromagnetic material. These are not counting the fact that any metal
is likely to blue the MRI image and can make it useless.

The first is heating, which depends on the frequency coupling of the
chip with the metal. It's very unlikely, but it has happened.

The second is polar alignment of the chips. Ouch. They can develop
quite a lot of torque under your skin.

The third is the result of extreme attraction of the chips to the MRI
magnets. It can literally rip them out of your skin.

Don't panic; all three are unlikely. But a chip in your eye that is
otherwise benign can blind you for life if subjected to the pull of an
MRI.

So take it seriously. And make sure they have metal detectors on hand
and use them if you tell them that you machine metal.
Ed,
Years ago I had an MRI done on my head to look for a possible tumor.
When they found out I was a machinist they first had me get a cat scan
of my eyes. They told me that the MRI would drag magnetic slivers
right through my eye. Not fun.
Eric

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:18:36 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.


Greetings Bob,
I know what you mean about gloves. I just shudder thinking about a
leather glove dragging my fingers into the band saw. I showed a guy
recently how he would probably not be able to pull his hand away fast
enough if the blade caught a glove finger. Watching that old TIG glove
being pulled from his light grip convinced him. Anyway, I use 6 mil
nitrile gloves for the kind of work you are doing. I use snug fitting
gloves and make sure there are no moving parts to catch the gloves.
Splinters don't penetrate the gloves as easily as soft skin and if one
does get through it will usually come out with the glove being
removed.
Eric

On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:11:30 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:00:39 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 15:33:23 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 3/9/2018 1:49 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 14:18:57 -0500, Bill wrote:

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 10:18:36 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles. My hands are
paying the price. I never wear gloves around any of the machines. I
have work gloves for lifting, hauling toting and general labor, but they
never go anywhere any of the machine tools, saws, drill press etc, and
of course I have welding gloves for welding.

However, when I reach inside a machine to take out one of those steel
parts no matter how well I think I have blown it off those tiny steel
needles jump for my hands worse than a jumping cholla cactus leans
towards human flesh. I've mostly done aluminum int he past I don't
think I've ever gotten an aluminum sliver in my hand, but my hands have
dozens of tiny metal splinters in them right now.

What's a machinist to do? Making bigger chips isn't really an option.
Well for part of the job it is, and I do, but for a lot of the job it
just isn't.
Becasue I'm forced to use miniscule chip loads, I get stuck with those
*&^%$ little needles all the time. I haven't found any really good
solution. I use a shop vac, chip brush & towels to grab the parts.
I'm afraid of using compressed air - I don't want to spread those
needles all over the place. A stero microscope comes in very handy
when I can't see them naked-eye to pull them out.

Hopefully someone knows of something better.
I used barrier cream in the past. It kept the chips that haven't yet
embedded from doing so, and you just wash it off with water.

For the past 20 years, though, I've used the thin grloves that Steve
recommends. The tough, industrial nitrile gloves are a lot better than
the Home Depot painter's gloves.

But I just do fairly light hobby machining. When I worked in a job
shop, I used barrier cream and it actually did a pretty good job.

BTW, if you have embedded steel chips and you need an MRI, you're
screwed.

* Look at the bright side - you won't have any embedded chips when you
come out !

That can be true! However, you can imagine the consequences. g

Actually, there are three possible things that can happen, the first
with ferromagnetic or non-ferromagnetic metal and the other two with
ferromagnetic material. These are not counting the fact that any metal
is likely to blue the MRI image and can make it useless.

The first is heating, which depends on the frequency coupling of the
chip with the metal. It's very unlikely, but it has happened.

The second is polar alignment of the chips. Ouch. They can develop
quite a lot of torque under your skin.

The third is the result of extreme attraction of the chips to the MRI
magnets. It can literally rip them out of your skin.

Don't panic; all three are unlikely. But a chip in your eye that is
otherwise benign can blind you for life if subjected to the pull of an
MRI.

So take it seriously. And make sure they have metal detectors on hand
and use them if you tell them that you machine metal.
Ed,
Years ago I had an MRI done on my head to look for a possible tumor.
When they found out I was a machinist they first had me get a cat scan
of my eyes. They told me that the MRI would drag magnetic slivers
right through my eye. Not fun.
Eric

Jeez, yeah. I read about this when I was a medical editor. Apparently
that is the scariest prospect for a machinist getting an MRI.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 09 Mar 2018 13:40:54 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote:

I've been doing some pretty detailed machining in 4140 HT using HSM
methods and it results in millions of tiny little needles.

Yup, classic problem, I've had it, too. I don't think thin gloves will
really help, the needles will likely go right through. You may be able to
vacuum the work area first, then pass a magnet over the work and fixture to
pick up more. Then, wipe the part down with a paper towel with something
like LPS-1 on it to pick up the last needles.

I'd love to know what the pros do about this.

Jon

The pros use Flood coolant and it washes all the chips into the sump.


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