There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic particles of
PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that the particles
embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces, and provide long
term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach kids
how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious. Even with
the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them are over the
maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them started out over 4
pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids. Competition air
pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to try
to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on the
process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel sheet metal
parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers with rollers, but
the club isn't going to pour more money into these pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for more
than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened beyond
whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease with
a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff might be
better.

Thanks!

Doug White

Doug White wrote:
There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic particles
of PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that the
particles embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces, and
provide long term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach
kids how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious.
Even with the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them
are over the maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them
started out over 4 pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids.
Competition air pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to try
to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on the
process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel sheet
metal parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers with
rollers, but the club isn't going to pour more money into these
pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for more
than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened beyond
whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease
with a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff
might be better.

Thanks!

Doug White

The surface finish is more critical than the lube you choose . And be damn
careful to maintain squareness and angles of contact . A surface that's in
full contact will have a lower per-unit pressure and feel lighter . Just
about any good quality gun oil will work just fine . IMO the moly-based
lubes are over-rated for most uses - they do have their place , and I like
'em in my wheel bearings .

--
Snag

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:47:35 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:




The surface finish is more critical than the lube you choose . And be damn

careful to maintain squareness and angles of contact . A surface that's in

full contact will have a lower per-unit pressure and feel lighter . Just

about any good quality gun oil will work just fine . IMO the moly-based

lubes are over-rated for most uses - they do have their place , and I like

'em in my wheel bearings .



--

Snag
I agree with Snag. If the surfaces are in full contact the pressures will be lower and will not squeeze out the lube. I might differ from him on using gun oil. Gun oil is pretty thin stuff so guns will work in freezing weather. You might try a thin grease in some guns and see what works best.

Dan

Doug White wrote:
There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic particles of
PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that the particles
embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces, and provide long
term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach kids
how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious. Even with
the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them are over the
maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them started out over 4
pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids. Competition air
pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to try
to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on the
process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel sheet metal
parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers with rollers, but
the club isn't going to pour more money into these pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for more
than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened beyond
whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease with
a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff might be
better.

it sounds like they're pieces of junk and should be treated as such.

grab a file, sandpaper and stone and work on the parts that should be
sliding until they're smooth. At that point, the lubricant you pick won't
even matter.

No joke about the file. I tossed one in the tool kit when I had to break
in a russian shotgun, and had to use it.

On Wed, 28 May 2014 15:47:35 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Doug White wrote:
There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic particles
of PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that the
particles embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces, and
provide long term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach
kids how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious.
Even with the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them
are over the maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them
started out over 4 pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids.
Competition air pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to try
to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on the
process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel sheet
metal parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers with
rollers, but the club isn't going to pour more money into these
pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for more
than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened beyond
whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease
with a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff
might be better.

Thanks!

Doug White

The surface finish is more critical than the lube you choose . And be damn
careful to maintain squareness and angles of contact . A surface that's in
full contact will have a lower per-unit pressure and feel lighter . Just
about any good quality gun oil will work just fine . IMO the moly-based
lubes are over-rated for most uses - they do have their place , and I like
'em in my wheel bearings .

Very well stated.

The normal method for most guys is to give em a lick and a promise
with a Dremal tool. And for a guy who has good control and knows his
techniques well..works fine. I personally set up triggers and sears
on a small industrial 12k rpm drill press and put my wheels in the
drill chuck..then use a raised flat block to lay my parts on and work
with the part absolutely flat..in good lighting, while wearing a
magnifying hood.

Also use a series of India stones, with the block as a guide to keep
things parallel and flat

Its little things like that that get one good triggers and not worry
about how long its going to take before they break in.

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Wed, 28 May 2014 14:02:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:47:35 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:




The surface finish is more critical than the lube you choose . And be damn

careful to maintain squareness and angles of contact . A surface that's in

full contact will have a lower per-unit pressure and feel lighter . Just

about any good quality gun oil will work just fine . IMO the moly-based

lubes are over-rated for most uses - they do have their place , and I like

'em in my wheel bearings .



--

Snag
I agree with Snag. If the surfaces are in full contact the pressures will be lower and will not squeeze out the lube. I might differ from him on using gun oil. Gun oil is pretty thin stuff so guns will work in freezing weather. You might try a thin grease in some guns and see what works best.

Dan

Its still very hard to beat Tri-Flow and similar lubricants for guns,
particularly in cold weather.

Here are other suggestions

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=538248


--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:15:45 PM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:



Its still very hard to beat Tri-Flow and similar lubricants for guns,

particularly in cold weather.

Exactly what I was saying. Good lubricants for cold weather. But in this case using air pistols for target shooting, there is no need for a lubricant that is good for cold weather. So a light grease might last longer than a thin oil.

Dan

Gunner Asch wrote in
:

On Wed, 28 May 2014 15:47:35 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Doug White wrote:
There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic
particles of PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that
the particles embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces,
and provide long term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach
kids how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious.
Even with the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them
are over the maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them
started out over 4 pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids.
Competition air pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to
try to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on
the process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel
sheet metal parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers
with rollers, but the club isn't going to pour more money into these
pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for
more than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened
beyond whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease
with a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff
might be better.

Thanks!

Doug White

The surface finish is more critical than the lube you choose . And be
damn careful to maintain squareness and angles of contact . A surface
that's in full contact will have a lower per-unit pressure and feel
lighter . Just about any good quality gun oil will work just fine .
IMO the moly-based lubes are over-rated for most uses - they do have
their place , and I like 'em in my wheel bearings .

Very well stated.

The normal method for most guys is to give em a lick and a promise
with a Dremal tool. And for a guy who has good control and knows his
techniques well..works fine. I personally set up triggers and sears
on a small industrial 12k rpm drill press and put my wheels in the
drill chuck..then use a raised flat block to lay my parts on and work
with the part absolutely flat..in good lighting, while wearing a
magnifying hood.

Also use a series of India stones, with the block as a guide to keep
things parallel and flat

Its little things like that that get one good triggers and not worry
about how long its going to take before they break in.

Gunner

Unless you've got a jig, using a Dremel is great way to wreck the angles
& end up with an uneven surface. I've done a lot of trigger jobs (but
on real hardened sears & such), and have a full set of Arkansas stones &
slips, plus fixtures for 1911's & High Standards.

The rubbing parts on the Crosman are basically thick sheet metal. I
don't know yet if the factory makes any attempt to smooth the surfaces,
or just leaves them "as punched". Here's a photo of the mechanism:

http://www.airguns.pl/wiatrowka/wiat...-crosman-2300-
1.jpg

The pivots are in the pot metal frame, which doesn't help. I suspect
they will wear fairly quickly with regular class use. There are all
sorts of aftermarket triggers & sears for these pistols. You can buy
the pistol for ~ $140, so it's pretty absurd to then spend $50 on an
aftermarket trigger setup.

Doug White

Cydrome Leader wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:
There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic particles
of PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that the
particles embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces, and
provide long term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach
kids how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious.
Even with the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them
are over the maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them
started out over 4 pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids.
Competition air pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to
try to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on
the process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel sheet
metal parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers with
rollers, but the club isn't going to pour more money into these
pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for
more than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened
beyond whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease
with a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff
might be better.

it sounds like they're pieces of junk and should be treated as such.

They were all the Club could afford, but if they'd applied for a grant
before they dove into this, they probably could have gotten money for
much better pistols. There's actually a fair amount of money available
to start new shooting programs, especially for kids.

grab a file, sandpaper and stone and work on the parts that should be
sliding until they're smooth. At that point, the lubricant you pick
won't even matter.

I may bring some rubberized abrasive points & my Dremel. That will
polish things up quickly if the shape is OK.

No joke about the file. I tossed one in the tool kit when I had to
break in a russian shotgun, and had to use it.

I've worked on a number of Russian target pistols. At least on those,
the critical surfaces ae usually in good shape. Very often the rest of
them is a bit crude, especially if it won't show. Apparently they never
heard of Eli Whitney either. There's frequently a lot of hand fitting
involved, and parts are often far from interchangeable.

Doug White

On Thu, 29 May 2014 22:36:07 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote in
:

On Wed, 28 May 2014 15:47:35 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Doug White wrote:
There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic
particles of PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that
the particles embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces,
and provide long term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach
kids how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious.
Even with the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them
are over the maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them
started out over 4 pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids.
Competition air pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to
try to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on
the process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel
sheet metal parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers
with rollers, but the club isn't going to pour more money into these
pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for
more than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened
beyond whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease
with a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff
might be better.

Thanks!

Doug White

The surface finish is more critical than the lube you choose . And be
damn careful to maintain squareness and angles of contact . A surface
that's in full contact will have a lower per-unit pressure and feel
lighter . Just about any good quality gun oil will work just fine .
IMO the moly-based lubes are over-rated for most uses - they do have
their place , and I like 'em in my wheel bearings .

Very well stated.

The normal method for most guys is to give em a lick and a promise
with a Dremal tool. And for a guy who has good control and knows his
techniques well..works fine. I personally set up triggers and sears
on a small industrial 12k rpm drill press and put my wheels in the
drill chuck..then use a raised flat block to lay my parts on and work
with the part absolutely flat..in good lighting, while wearing a
magnifying hood.

Also use a series of India stones, with the block as a guide to keep
things parallel and flat

Its little things like that that get one good triggers and not worry
about how long its going to take before they break in.

Gunner

Unless you've got a jig, using a Dremel is great way to wreck the angles
& end up with an uneven surface. I've done a lot of trigger jobs (but
on real hardened sears & such), and have a full set of Arkansas stones &
slips, plus fixtures for 1911's & High Standards.

Absolutely correct!!

The rubbing parts on the Crosman are basically thick sheet metal. I
don't know yet if the factory makes any attempt to smooth the surfaces,
or just leaves them "as punched". Here's a photo of the mechanism:

http://www.airguns.pl/wiatrowka/wiat...-crosman-2300-
1.jpg

The pivots are in the pot metal frame, which doesn't help. I suspect
they will wear fairly quickly with regular class use. There are all
sorts of aftermarket triggers & sears for these pistols. You can buy
the pistol for ~ $140, so it's pretty absurd to then spend $50 on an
aftermarket trigger setup.

Doug White

Ayup..very well stated.

Gunner

"Libertarianism IS fascism... Fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream"
Tala Brandeis
Owner at Tala Brandeis Associates"

Doug White wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:
There are a variety of greases & oils that have microscopic particles
of PTFE, Molydisulphide, etc. in them. The claim is that the
particles embed themselves in the pores of the metal surfaces, and
provide long term reduction in friction.

My pistol club bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T air pistols to teach
kids how to shoot. The triggers are heavy & generally atrocious.
Even with the trigger weight screws set to the minimum, most of them
are over the maximum weight Crosman says to expect. Many of them
started out over 4 pounds, which is ridiculous for 10 year old kids.
Competition air pistol triggers should be just over 500 grams.

As soon as the current pistol class is over, I have volunteered to
try to fix the triggers as best I can. There are YouTube videos on
the process, and basically you just polish up the stamped steel sheet
metal parts where they rub. There are aftermarket triggers with
rollers, but the club isn't going to pour more money into these
pistols.

I'm hoping the right lube will help maintain the trigger jobs for
more than a few shots. I don't think the surfaces are hardened
beyond whatever work hardening they get from stamping.

Any favorite lubes I shoudol consider? I have moly assembly grease
with a very high moly content, but I don't know if the PTFE stuff
might be better.

it sounds like they're pieces of junk and should be treated as such.

They were all the Club could afford, but if they'd applied for a grant
before they dove into this, they probably could have gotten money for
much better pistols. There's actually a fair amount of money available
to start new shooting programs, especially for kids.

I'm not saying throw them out and somebody made a stupid purchase, but
there's no shame in getting a little rough with them if that's what it
takes.

grab a file, sandpaper and stone and work on the parts that should be
sliding until they're smooth. At that point, the lubricant you pick
won't even matter.

I may bring some rubberized abrasive points & my Dremel. That will
polish things up quickly if the shape is OK.

No joke about the file. I tossed one in the tool kit when I had to
break in a russian shotgun, and had to use it.

I've worked on a number of Russian target pistols. At least on those,
the critical surfaces ae usually in good shape. Very often the rest of
them is a bit crude, especially if it won't show. Apparently they never
heard of Eli Whitney either. There's frequently a lot of hand fitting
involved, and parts are often far from interchangeable.

Doug White

Ha, never heard of Eli Whitney.

Oddly, in the end, the russian shotgun has the smoothest pump action of
anything I've ever handled. I'm not sure if it's because the parts are
loose or what, but it does feel nice. The workmanship is quite crude
otherwise, but it's a shotgun, so who cares.