I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for the fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white wire, a black wire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on both switches always has power. Each black wire only has power when the switch is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire. Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them to the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi? When I did this messing around with the switches, everything worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was always the constant power wire.

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 05:34:07 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for the fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white wire, a black wire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on both switches always has power. Each black wire only has power when the switch is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire.

Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them to the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi? When I did this messing around with the switches, everything worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was always the constant power wire.

If that's all you have - two runs of Romex jacketed cable coming into
the box, each one with it's Black and White going to one switch - then
No, you can't add anything to that box. You don't have a Neutral
available in the switch box to connect to the outlet, just Hots coming
in on the Whites, and Switchlegs leaving on the Blacks back to the
lights.

The light box at the other end has the Neutral stop there - but the
schmuck that roped the house was too cheap to use a length of
3-conductor Romex to make sure there was a Neutral in the switch-box
for just that purpose. Or for a Motion / Occupancy detector light
switch to meet the next "Energy Efficiency" mandate - the new ones
require a Neutral to operate properly.

And before you put something built like this back together the way it
was, get a roll of Red or Yellow electrical tape (or just Black if
that's all you have) and wind it around the White wires to identify
that they are NOT being used as neutrals in this instance.

The electrician who built the house should have re-colored the wires
like this, but there are a lot of lazy people out there who go by the
motto "Doesn't matter, the wire is colorblind." Yes, but the next
Electrician is NOT colorblind, and will make some dangerous
assumptions based on the color of the wire without checking.

If you try installing a receptacle at the switchbox by connecting the
neutral off one of the bare Ground leads, you've violated one of the
electrical safety Prime Directives - Safety Ground NEVER carries
return current.

That's assuming the house is new enough to have the 2W+Ground Romex -
if you have the old 2-wire and no ground stuff you can't even do that.

Look inside the box and make sure the house doesn't have flex conduit
in the walls and was wired by a moron who only had Black and White
wire. It happens...

(Been The "In Russia, you use whatever you can get, yes, I
understand - But this isn't Russia, it's Los Angeles. And we have
Inspections that this work will never pass, and I'll have to redo the
whole thing - You're fired.")

If so, you can get a fishtape and pull through a different colored
wire up to the ceiling light box for the Switchleg and turn the Black
into the Power feed and White into Neutral.

Otherwise, you're going to have to make a few holes in the wall and
re-run a 3-wire Romex to one of the light boxes, and then you'll have
a Neutral in the switch box to hook up the receptacle.

You might get lucky and find that both hot wires to the switches are
on the same circuit - then you could use one Hot to feed both
switches, and turn one of the White wires back into a real Neutral to
feed the receptacle - but don't count on it.

-- Bruce --

stryped wrote in
:

I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add
it to the current light switch box. This box currently has two
switches, one for the fan,light and one for the vanity light.
Each switch has a white wire, a black wire, and a ground. When
checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on both switches
always has power. Each black wire only has power when the switch
is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire.
Can I take these white wires off the switches, connect them to
the top and bottom "hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed
the switches from both terminals on the other side of the gfi?
When I did this messing around with the switches, everything
worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was always
the constant power wire.

Hire an electrician before you burn your house down, or electrocute yourself. You don't
understand enough about this to do it safely.

What Bruce said, although I wouldn't add a receptacle to a lighting
circuit.. keeping them separate is more sensible.

If there is an existing wall receptacle in the room (or in the bathroom wall
but facing into an adjacent space), I'd replace it with a GFCI version, and
extend the circuit from the GFCI to the conveniently placed location (up
near the countertop etc).
Receptacles downstream/after the GFCI receptacle have the same protection if
installed properly.

Otherwise, I'd add a 12-2 plus ground circuit from the service box and
terminate with a GFCI receptacle located in a convenient location (leaving a
pigtail at a convenient location on the protected side of the GFCI, nutted
and placed in a secured handy box will provide the convenience of easy
future expansion of the GFCI circuit).

--
WB
..........


"stryped" wrote in message
...
I need to add a gfi outlet to my wifes bathroom. I want to add it to the
current light switch box. This box currently has two switches, one for the
fan,light and one for the vanity light. Each switch has a white wire, a
black wire, and a ground. When checking with a voltmeter, the white wire on
both switches always has power. Each black wire only has power when the
switch is turned on. I am assuming the white wire is the power wire. Can I
take these white wires off the switches, connect them to the top and bottom
"hot" terminal on the gfi outlet, then feed the switches from both terminals
on the other side of the gfi? When I did this messing around with the
switches, everything worked properly. I just thought that the black wire was
always the constant power wire.

Well , see an electrician, because a licensed electrician has to sign
off on the work in the long run, anway.

On Mar 25, 9:21*pm, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
What Bruce said, although I wouldn't add a receptacle to a
lighting
circuit... keeping them separate is more sensible.

Even then, to avoid overloading the panel, you have to do it the HARD
way and you should draw a brand new line of 12-3 straight from the
main panel (hopefully its already a 60 amp breaker, which means
there's plenty of room for extra devices). That way, you force
yourself to find out whether the light circuit is 277v or a high leg
or something other than 120v. (outside of the US of America
everything is 220v, so disregard)

Receptacles downstream/after the GFCI receptacle have the same protection if
installed properly.

Yes, that's the load side in series (you should specify that).

Otherwise, I'd add a 12-2 plus ground circuit from the service box and
terminate with a GFCI receptacle located in a convenient location (leaving a
pigtail at a convenient location on the protected side of the GFCI, nutted
and placed in a secured handy box will provide the convenience of easy
future expansion of the GFCI circuit).

Add all new devices from wiring DIRECTLY from the panel and that's
only if there's room. Adding branches on to these 20 amp breakers
that nearly everyone has aren't to be toyed with.

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:21:23 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

What Bruce said, although I wouldn't add a receptacle to a lighting
circuit.. keeping them separate is more sensible.


Yes, but if you know that receptacle is on the Light circuit, you
won't try using it for a hair dryer and trip the breaker & blackout
the room at the same time. That one can have the chargers for the
razor and the electric toothbrush.

If there is an existing wall receptacle in the room (or in the bathroom wall
but facing into an adjacent space), I'd replace it with a GFCI version, and
extend the circuit from the GFCI to the conveniently placed location (up
near the countertop etc).

Preferred, but Murphy never makes it that easy.

Receptacles downstream/after the GFCI receptacle have the same protection if
installed properly.

Which means coming out of the LOAD terminals of the GFCI to feed other
outlets that need to be protected, like the other bathroom or the Wet
Bar.

BUT you have to know where it goes, because you do NOT want to GFCI
protect certain things - like the Refrigerator in the kitchen. Trust
me, you don't want it to false trip while you're on vacation, and come
back to a refrig that's been off for over a week. Not Pleasant.

If it feeds the Fridge outlet next in the loop, do NOT protect
downstream - Leave the Romex leaving the box unprotected, bridged to
the LINE lugs. Install another GFCI outlet at the first outlet /past/
the Refrigerator, and you can use the LOAD lugs to feed any more
outlets past that.

Otherwise, I'd add a 12-2 plus ground circuit from the service box and
terminate with a GFCI receptacle located in a convenient location (leaving a
pigtail at a convenient location on the protected side of the GFCI, nutted
and placed in a secured handy box will provide the convenience of easy
future expansion of the GFCI circuit).

Don't get too fancy - Just one chunk of new Romex from the breaker box
to the bathroom, one new breaker (or swap out an existing single for a
twin if space is tight), one new GFCI receptacle, and Stop.

If you want to go anywhere past that, either do it now (run a 3-wire
Romex with two circuits from Panel to Bath 1, loop off a 2-wire Romex
to Bath 2) or wait and add on when you want to do it.

Every bathroom should have it's own dedicated GFCI circuit, but
builders are unflinchingly cheap - I had to split up a house that had
3 and a Half Baths, and all four were looped on One outlet circuit.
And they had three teenage girls with curling irons and blow driers
all trying to get ready for school at the same time...

They were SO happy when they suddenly had 4 separate dedicated
bathroom outlet circuits.

-- Bruce --