I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I remember it
had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. I don't
need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the
wrap. I found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and
eliminates having to precision wind. Any ideas will be highly appreciated!

On 07/02/2013 10:18, Tom Gardner wrote:
I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I remember it
had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. I don't
need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the
wrap. I found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and
eliminates having to precision wind. Any ideas will be highly appreciated!


Can you get hold of a scrapped out electric golf bag buggy.

12V + geared down motor & speed control included.

Just need to fit a crank & you would have what you need.Run it off any
old 12V supply, battery charger etc.

Dennis wrote in
:

On 07/02/2013 10:18, Tom Gardner wrote:
I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they
are wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I
remember reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I
remember it had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's
about all. I don't need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or
perfect alignment of the wrap. I found that a basket weave works
great for tangle problems and eliminates having to precision wind.
Any ideas will be highly appreciated!


Can you get hold of a scrapped out electric golf bag buggy.

12V + geared down motor & speed control included.

Just need to fit a crank & you would have what you need.Run it off any
old 12V supply, battery charger etc.




Car windscreen wiper mechanism?

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On Feb 6, 7:18*pm, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. *Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. *I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. *I remember it
had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. *I don't
need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the
wrap. *I found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and
eliminates having to precision wind. *Any ideas will be highly appreciated!

Have a small pamphlet somewhere about how to build a coil winder for
making radio coils. Was a derivative of one that used to be sold by
all the big electronics suppliers prior to the '70s. Anyway, it used
a crank off the coil form shaft to drive a bell crank that drove an
arm that moved the wire back and forth, could be adjusted for any size
wire and could do the honeycomb style windings like you describe.
Just needs to be made bigger. Think I got it from Lindsay back a
number years, don't know if it's still in print. Only winder I've
seen that combined a tensioner, a form drive and a wire traverse all
off one crank handle. Was done with common hardware store parts, a
guy with a bunch of stuff in the racks could probably make one up
easily.

Hah! Amazon has it:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Universa.../dp/187808710X

Stan

Dennis fired this volley in
:

Just need to fit a crank & you would have what you need.Run it off any
old 12V supply, battery charger etc.

For that sort of application, a crank isn't usually the best. If the
reduction between spool and crank rpms is relatively large, a crank will
create a reciprocating motion with substantial dwell at both ends, with a
velocity that's sinusoidal in amplitude.

That'll result in the wire piling up at the ends of the spool, and being
shy in the middle.

You need a mechanism that will reverse more or less instantly (within the
limits of inertia, etc.), and for which the velocity is constant across
the width of the spool, so that the winding is more uniform. It should
move at an irrational ratio to the spool, and reverse in less than half a
turn of the spool.

If you're not up to making a dual-lead screw and toggling follower - like
on a casting reel - then a cam driving the traverse arm might be the way
to go.

Lloyd

On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:18:56 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I remember it
had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. I don't
need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the
wrap. I found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and
eliminates having to precision wind. Any ideas will be highly appreciated!

You could use a linear clutch on a shaft, limit switches to reverse
direction. Here's the kind I used on a project once.
http://www.wmberg.com/catalog/catpag...df/B05E020.pdf

Don't know about cheap or dirty, but it worked.

Pete Keillor

On 2/7/2013 7:03 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Dennis fired this volley in
:

Just need to fit a crank & you would have what you need.Run it off any
old 12V supply, battery charger etc.

For that sort of application, a crank isn't usually the best. If the
reduction between spool and crank rpms is relatively large, a crank will
create a reciprocating motion with substantial dwell at both ends, with a
velocity that's sinusoidal in amplitude.

That'll result in the wire piling up at the ends of the spool, and being
shy in the middle.

You need a mechanism that will reverse more or less instantly (within the
limits of inertia, etc.), and for which the velocity is constant across
the width of the spool, so that the winding is more uniform. It should
move at an irrational ratio to the spool, and reverse in less than half a
turn of the spool.

If you're not up to making a dual-lead screw and toggling follower - like
on a casting reel - then a cam driving the traverse arm might be the way
to go.

Lloyd


I can visualize that, good one!

On 2/7/2013 5:59 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Feb 6, 7:18 pm, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I remember it
had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. I don't
need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the
wrap. I found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and
eliminates having to precision wind. Any ideas will be highly appreciated!

Have a small pamphlet somewhere about how to build a coil winder for
making radio coils. Was a derivative of one that used to be sold by
all the big electronics suppliers prior to the '70s. Anyway, it used
a crank off the coil form shaft to drive a bell crank that drove an
arm that moved the wire back and forth, could be adjusted for any size
wire and could do the honeycomb style windings like you describe.
Just needs to be made bigger. Think I got it from Lindsay back a
number years, don't know if it's still in print. Only winder I've
seen that combined a tensioner, a form drive and a wire traverse all
off one crank handle. Was done with common hardware store parts, a
guy with a bunch of stuff in the racks could probably make one up
easily.

Hah! Amazon has it:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Universa.../dp/187808710X

Stan


Just enlarging the picture on the book cover is a big help, thanks!

On 2/7/2013 7:17 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:18:56 -0500, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I remember it
had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. I don't
need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the
wrap. I found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and
eliminates having to precision wind. Any ideas will be highly appreciated!

You could use a linear clutch on a shaft, limit switches to reverse
direction. Here's the kind I used on a project once.
http://www.wmberg.com/catalog/catpag...df/B05E020.pdf

Don't know about cheap or dirty, but it worked.

Pete Keillor


I don't instantly understand how it works, I will have to look into it.
Interesting!

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 2/7/2013 5:59 AM, Stanley Schaefer wrote:
On Feb 6, 7:18 pm, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I remember it
had a DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. I don't
need a PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the
wrap. I found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and
eliminates having to precision wind. Any ideas will be highly appreciated!

Have a small pamphlet somewhere about how to build a coil winder for
making radio coils. Was a derivative of one that used to be sold by
all the big electronics suppliers prior to the '70s. Anyway, it used
a crank off the coil form shaft to drive a bell crank that drove an
arm that moved the wire back and forth, could be adjusted for any size
wire and could do the honeycomb style windings like you describe.
Just needs to be made bigger. Think I got it from Lindsay back a
number years, don't know if it's still in print. Only winder I've
seen that combined a tensioner, a form drive and a wire traverse all
off one crank handle. Was done with common hardware store parts, a
guy with a bunch of stuff in the racks could probably make one up
easily.

Hah! Amazon has it:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Universa.../dp/187808710X

Stan


Just enlarging the picture on the book cover is a big help, thanks!


That book was from Lindsay Publishing, who recently closed their
doors when the owner retired.

In a wire mill I worked in, air cylinders and reversing valves were used for
welding wire spooling.
This method resulted in fairly neat, flat layers.. although not as precise
as the close-wound method commonly used for rolls of solder (for example).

Larger spools (2 ft to 5 ft dia) were traversed by other methods.

An AC motor which is capable of nearly instant reversing is the PSC
permanent split capacitor type, which are often used with gear reduction
boxes, and are capable of variable, regulated speed control when used with
the proper controllers.

Without a method of introducing a slight arc/bend in the steel wire (to
ensure that it clings to the spool) before it wraps on the spool, when the
wire tension is released, the wire will tend to jump off the spool unwinding
itself rapidly until all that's left is a continuous backlashed mess.

Spooling steel wire properly is a balance of sustained arc/bend and tension.
Tension (or lack of it) is commonly maintained by a dancer, which you're
probably familiar with.

--
WB
..........


"Tom Gardner" Mars@Tacks wrote in message
news
I get flat wire on 20" x 6", 12" core wooden spools. Sometimes they are
wound poorly or I need lighter spools for a repair machine. I remember
reading a post years ago about a traverse for winding. I remember it had a
DC motor with a pot to adjust speed but that's about all. I don't need a
PLC to adjust for height on the core or perfect alignment of the wrap. I
found that a basket weave works great for tangle problems and eliminates
having to precision wind. Any ideas will be highly appreciated!

On 2/7/2013 1:18 PM, Wild_Bill wrote:
In a wire mill I worked in, air cylinders and reversing valves were used
for welding wire spooling.
This method resulted in fairly neat, flat layers.. although not as
precise as the close-wound method commonly used for rolls of solder (for
example).

Larger spools (2 ft to 5 ft dia) were traversed by other methods.

An AC motor which is capable of nearly instant reversing is the PSC
permanent split capacitor type, which are often used with gear reduction
boxes, and are capable of variable, regulated speed control when used
with the proper controllers.

Without a method of introducing a slight arc/bend in the steel wire (to
ensure that it clings to the spool) before it wraps on the spool, when
the wire tension is released, the wire will tend to jump off the spool
unwinding itself rapidly until all that's left is a continuous
backlashed mess.

Spooling steel wire properly is a balance of sustained arc/bend and
tension. Tension (or lack of it) is commonly maintained by a dancer,
which you're probably familiar with.


This is spring wire, off the spool it wants to straighten out.

On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 06:03:38 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Dennis fired this volley in
:

Just need to fit a crank & you would have what you need.Run it off any
old 12V supply, battery charger etc.

For that sort of application, a crank isn't usually the best. If the
reduction between spool and crank rpms is relatively large, a crank will
create a reciprocating motion with substantial dwell at both ends, with a
velocity that's sinusoidal in amplitude.

That'll result in the wire piling up at the ends of the spool, and being
shy in the middle.

You need a mechanism that will reverse more or less instantly (within the
limits of inertia, etc.), and for which the velocity is constant across
the width of the spool, so that the winding is more uniform. It should
move at an irrational ratio to the spool, and reverse in less than half a
turn of the spool.

If you're not up to making a dual-lead screw and toggling follower - like
on a casting reel - then a cam driving the traverse arm might be the way
to go.

Lloyd
You would need the heart shapd cam like on the old shuttle type sewing
machines - the one with the bottom thread wound on a small diameter
spool about an inch long (wide between end flanges).

Gerry Miller fired this volley in
:

You would need the heart shapd cam like on the old shuttle type sewing
machines - the one with the bottom thread wound on a small diameter
spool about an inch long (wide between end flanges).


Correct. And, FWIW, that book cover depicting the "universal coil
winder" does not have a cam shaped to control the reversing velocity.
It's (appears to be), just a circular cam with variable offset to limit
the throw, depending upon the length of the coil.

That's simple, but a bad choice in terms of preventing the piling we
discussed earlier.

Lloyd

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 2/7/2013 1:18 PM, Wild_Bill wrote:
In a wire mill I worked in, air cylinders and reversing valves were used
for welding wire spooling.
This method resulted in fairly neat, flat layers.. although not as
precise as the close-wound method commonly used for rolls of solder (for
example).

Larger spools (2 ft to 5 ft dia) were traversed by other methods.

An AC motor which is capable of nearly instant reversing is the PSC
permanent split capacitor type, which are often used with gear reduction
boxes, and are capable of variable, regulated speed control when used
with the proper controllers.

Without a method of introducing a slight arc/bend in the steel wire (to
ensure that it clings to the spool) before it wraps on the spool, when
the wire tension is released, the wire will tend to jump off the spool
unwinding itself rapidly until all that's left is a continuous
backlashed mess.

Spooling steel wire properly is a balance of sustained arc/bend and
tension. Tension (or lack of it) is commonly maintained by a dancer,
which you're probably familiar with.


This is spring wire, off the spool it wants to straighten out.


Then you better hurry and rewind it all, while it's still winter! ;-)

On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 10:00:27 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

BIG SNIP


Hah! Amazon has it:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Universa.../dp/187808710X

Stan


Just enlarging the picture on the book cover is a big help, thanks!


That book was from Lindsay Publishing, who recently closed their
doors when the owner retired.


Hey Michael,

Yeah, but somebody else is selling them now. Looks like a neighbour,
cuz they are in the same city.

Brian Lawson.

Brian Lawson wrote:

On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 10:00:27 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

BIG SNIP


Hah! Amazon has it:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Universa.../dp/187808710X

Stan


Just enlarging the picture on the book cover is a big help, thanks!


That book was from Lindsay Publishing, who recently closed their
doors when the owner retired.

Hey Michael,

Yeah, but somebody else is selling them now. Looks like a neighbour,
cuz they are in the same city.


Some were on Ebay at higher prices, and some on Amazon. Over the
last few years the list of availible books got shorter. Maybe they will
be vailible again?

Do you have the URL for the new source?

On 2/7/2013 11:02 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 2/7/2013 1:18 PM, Wild_Bill wrote:
In a wire mill I worked in, air cylinders and reversing valves were used
for welding wire spooling.
This method resulted in fairly neat, flat layers.. although not as
precise as the close-wound method commonly used for rolls of solder (for
example).

Larger spools (2 ft to 5 ft dia) were traversed by other methods.

An AC motor which is capable of nearly instant reversing is the PSC
permanent split capacitor type, which are often used with gear reduction
boxes, and are capable of variable, regulated speed control when used
with the proper controllers.

Without a method of introducing a slight arc/bend in the steel wire (to
ensure that it clings to the spool) before it wraps on the spool, when
the wire tension is released, the wire will tend to jump off the spool
unwinding itself rapidly until all that's left is a continuous
backlashed mess.

Spooling steel wire properly is a balance of sustained arc/bend and
tension. Tension (or lack of it) is commonly maintained by a dancer,
which you're probably familiar with.


This is spring wire, off the spool it wants to straighten out.


Then you better hurry and rewind it all, while it's still winter! ;-)



You owe me one for that!

Hey Michael,

Sorry, but I don't know, or I would have included it with my first
reply. I do know when I read about the "new owner", it is a different
name, but located in the same city as the Lindsay's. That's why I
wrote that, but I don't know and can't now find what city Lindsay's
was in.. I did have a look back a few minutes ago, and found this in
my "Favorites" list as being "The new owner of Lindsay books", but
going to their site doesn't look right, and they appear quite
secretive about where they are located.

https://www.youroldtimebookstore.com/

Sorry I can't help further.

Brian Lawson.
XXXXXXXXXXXXX


On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 01:36:43 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Brian Lawson wrote:

On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 10:00:27 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

BIG SNIP


Hah! Amazon has it:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Universa.../dp/187808710X

Stan


Just enlarging the picture on the book cover is a big help, thanks!


That book was from Lindsay Publishing, who recently closed their
doors when the owner retired.

Hey Michael,

Yeah, but somebody else is selling them now. Looks like a neighbour,
cuz they are in the same city.


Some were on Ebay at higher prices, and some on Amazon. Over the
last few years the list of availible books got shorter. Maybe they will
be vailible again?

Do you have the URL for the new source?

Brian Lawson wrote:

Hey Michael,

Sorry, but I don't know, or I would have included it with my first
reply. I do know when I read about the "new owner", it is a different
name, but located in the same city as the Lindsay's. That's why I
wrote that, but I don't know and can't now find what city Lindsay's
was in.. I did have a look back a few minutes ago, and found this in
my "Favorites" list as being "The new owner of Lindsay books", but
going to their site doesn't look right, and they appear quite
secretive about where they are located.

https://www.youroldtimebookstore.com/

Sorry I can't help further.


Thanks for trying.

On 2/8/2013 1:47 PM, Brian Lawson wrote:
... where they are located.
...


Kankakee, IL