Does anyone know of a source of data for the traverse spacing, turns per mm
or mil, for the smallest wire gauges of say 45 to 50 SWG or 40 to 45 AWG.

If wire is 0.05 mm thick, say, then the traverse should lay down at
something marginally wider than that. I appreciate it is dependent on
drawing die imperfections/ enamel thickness/ chaffing etc but at least a
starting value and then suck it and see with a trial run or 2 with the
actual wire. Or a formula for the general case.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

N_Cook wrote in message
...
Does anyone know of a source of data for the traverse spacing, turns per
mm
or mil, for the smallest wire gauges of say 45 to 50 SWG or 40 to 45 AWG.

If wire is 0.05 mm thick, say, then the traverse should lay down at
something marginally wider than that. I appreciate it is dependent on
drawing die imperfections/ enamel thickness/ chaffing etc but at least a
starting value and then suck it and see with a trial run or 2 with the
actual wire. Or a formula for the general case.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




from the table at the top of
http://136.159.225.44/AlliedData2.pdf
then it would seem that for
35 AWG = 5.715 mil = 0.14mm ~= 38.5 SWG
increase is 17 percent
40 AWG = 3.145 mil = 0.8mm ~= 44.2 SWG
increase is 13 percent

46 AWG = 1.57 mil = 0.04 mm ~= 48.1 SWG
increase would be ?
that table only goes up to 40 AWG.
I would have expected the percentage increase would increase with finer
gauge wire. And there does not seem to be a straightforward AWG to SWG
conversion either


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:13:47 -0000, "N_Cook" wrote:

Does anyone know of a source of data for the traverse spacing, turns per mm
or mil, for the smallest wire gauges of say 45 to 50 SWG or 40 to 45 AWG.

If wire is 0.05 mm thick, say, then the traverse should lay down at
something marginally wider than that. I appreciate it is dependent on
drawing die imperfections/ enamel thickness/ chaffing etc but at least a
starting value and then suck it and see with a trial run or 2 with the
actual wire. Or a formula for the general case.

I am not sure if an allowance was made?
Looking at the table for travers on the Avo Douglas machine on page 21 of this
pdf:-
http://www.g1jbg.co.uk/pdf/avowave.pdf
Taking, for example, a 10 thou traverse, the table gives gears of 30,40 and
48,36 which fit precisely into the formula at the bottom of the table for 10
thou wire diameter. Similarly for 20 thou wire diameter.

--
Geo

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:35:33 GMT, Geo wrote:


I am not sure if an allowance was made?
but arguing with myself - there is a table of allowances on page 6 of the older
instuction manual which gives 0.2 though for 46 to 50 SWG.
http://www.g1jbg.co.uk/pdf/avocoil.pdf


--
Geo

On Feb 26, 9:47*am, Geo wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:35:33 GMT, Geo wrote:
I am not sure if an allowance was made?

but arguing with myself - there is a table of allowances on page 6 of the older
instuction manual which gives 0.2 though for 46 to 50 SWG.http://www.g1jbg.co.uk/pdf/avocoil.pdf

--
Geo

The big unknown is the thickness of the insulation in 1930 when the
manual was produced and the thickness of the insulation on the wire
that Norm is proposing to use. THe actual copper thickness should be
the same.

Geo wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:13:47 -0000, "N_Cook" wrote:

Does anyone know of a source of data for the traverse spacing, turns per
mm
or mil, for the smallest wire gauges of say 45 to 50 SWG or 40 to 45 AWG.

If wire is 0.05 mm thick, say, then the traverse should lay down at
something marginally wider than that. I appreciate it is dependent on
drawing die imperfections/ enamel thickness/ chaffing etc but at least a
starting value and then suck it and see with a trial run or 2 with the
actual wire. Or a formula for the general case.

I am not sure if an allowance was made?
Looking at the table for travers on the Avo Douglas machine on page 21 of
this
pdf:-
http://www.g1jbg.co.uk/pdf/avowave.pdf
Taking, for example, a 10 thou traverse, the table gives gears of 30,40
and
48,36 which fit precisely into the formula at the bottom of the table for
10
thou wire diameter. Similarly for 20 thou wire diameter.

--
Geo

Useful info there

You must have some excess traverse, for all the previous mentioned reasons
plus back tension variability , non linearity of traverse and dirt, as the
winding will eventually upset and overwind otherwise, just a matter of
gauging how much.

Following on from a previous discussion here on back tension etc, this is
now what I use on my ETA machine, mechanics much like the Douglas
For very fine wire I use a small PTFE
thru chassis terminal as final delivery point, passin wire thru the
where the pin was. ptfe squashed and
then mounted on adjustable metalwork
for the best angle/ work closeness. With as straight as run as possible
between
mandrel , PTFE and supply spool. To give some slack in the wire,
to allow for snatching/ uneven slip-clutch, by allowing the supply wire to
stretch ,
I mount the supply spool about 10 or 12 feet away with
slip clutch and adjustable weight and then a felt clutch
about 2 foot from the spool, far enough for up and down
motion along the spool. Felt clutch made from a strip of
felt wrapped a few turns around the wire and then held
in the clothes line notch of a sprung clothes peg , fixed
to a support.

Where I used to work and a had use of a Douglas the most accomplished, radio
man, had created a 3 way plot for this info. Gauge v back tension v traverse
and some allowance for diameter of former.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Geo wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:13:47 -0000, "N_Cook" wrote:

Does anyone know of a source of data for the traverse spacing, turns per
mm
or mil, for the smallest wire gauges of say 45 to 50 SWG or 40 to 45 AWG.

If wire is 0.05 mm thick, say, then the traverse should lay down at
something marginally wider than that. I appreciate it is dependent on
drawing die imperfections/ enamel thickness/ chaffing etc but at least a
starting value and then suck it and see with a trial run or 2 with the
actual wire. Or a formula for the general case.

I am not sure if an allowance was made?
Looking at the table for travers on the Avo Douglas machine on page 21 of
this
pdf:-
http://www.g1jbg.co.uk/pdf/avowave.pdf
Taking, for example, a 10 thou traverse, the table gives gears of 30,40
and
48,36 which fit precisely into the formula at the bottom of the table for
10
thou wire diameter. Similarly for 20 thou wire diameter.

--
Geo

I will go with that Avo/Douglas data, going on the conservative side
50 swg 20 percent
46 swg 8%
38 swg 6.5 %
30 swg 5%
25 swg , 4%

Incidently I think the ETA reversing mechanism may be better than the
Douglas one, for fine wire anyway. I seem to remember that if everything was
not just perfect then sometimes with the Douglas there would be too much of
a kick on the traverse arm and so break the wire, at reversal. I discovered
that the kick I was getting on my ETA one (in the right sense of slackening
rather than stretching, in both directions of traverse) was just due to a
slack end bearing of the leadscrew. The ETA uses a rubber rimmed cam that
engages with a flywheel to flip a synchronised? dogclutch across to engage ,
meshed I think, cleanly with the reverse set of cogs.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

In article ,
"N_Cook" wrote:

Does anyone know of a source of data for the traverse spacing, turns per mm
or mil, for the smallest wire gauges of say 45 to 50 SWG or 40 to 45 AWG.

If wire is 0.05 mm thick, say, then the traverse should lay down at
something marginally wider than that. I appreciate it is dependent on
drawing die imperfections/ enamel thickness/ chaffing etc but at least a
starting value and then suck it and see with a trial run or 2 with the
actual wire. Or a formula for the general case.

--


Haven't been on this board for a while so I'm late with this reply.
Maybe you sorted it out already.

There is no gap between wires. Wire manufacturers publish minimum,
nominal, and maximum diameters for every flavor of wire they make. Use
the maximum. Just divide the bobbin length (traverse length) by the
diameter to get turns per layer. Then the only space you'll have between
wires is the amount by which your wire deviates from the maximum.

If you don't have and can't get the spec, you're best off with a
toolroom micrometer measurement of the wire in hand. The operative
adjective here is "toolroom." A standard shop mic is woefully inadequate
for this task with wires that small.

In article ,
"N_Cook" wrote:

N_Cook wrote in message
...
Does anyone know of a source of data for the traverse spacing, turns per
mm
or mil, for the smallest wire gauges of say 45 to 50 SWG or 40 to 45 AWG.

If wire is 0.05 mm thick, say, then the traverse should lay down at
something marginally wider than that. I appreciate it is dependent on
drawing die imperfections/ enamel thickness/ chaffing etc but at least a
starting value and then suck it and see with a trial run or 2 with the
actual wire. Or a formula for the general case.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




from the table at the top of
http://136.159.225.44/AlliedData2.pdf
then it would seem that for
35 AWG = 5.715 mil = 0.14mm ~= 38.5 SWG
increase is 17 percent
40 AWG = 3.145 mil = 0.8mm ~= 44.2 SWG
increase is 13 percent

46 AWG = 1.57 mil = 0.04 mm ~= 48.1 SWG
increase would be ?
that table only goes up to 40 AWG.
I would have expected the percentage increase would increase with finer
gauge wire. And there does not seem to be a straightforward AWG to SWG
conversion either


We buy coil wire from MWS. Lots of good technical data on their website.
Note that the Allied table you linked is for bare copper. Coil wire is
insulated, which adds to the diameter.

http://www.mwswire.com/