Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

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On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:18:02 +0000, tmackinator
wrote:

Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

You'll need to be more specific about which control you have. There
are motor/generator, thyratron, and solid state controls. And several
variations among those. The "modular" thyratron controls have two 1
minute timers, but I'm reluctant to spend time with the schematic
without knowing if I'm looking at the right one.

--
Ned Simmons

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:18:02 +0000, tmackinator
wrote:

Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

1. Bad transformer
2. Bad relay
3. Bad switch
4..and most likely...another device in the run that is dying 1 minute
after turn on.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 2012-11-26, tmackinator wrote:
Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

Which 10EE? There are at least three types, maybe four.

The first three with the same DC spindle motor

1) The old motor-generator style.

2) The type with tube electronics.

3) The type with sold-state electronics

The next one a factory retrofit

4) Three phase spindle motor with VFD controlling the spindle
motor.

I suspect that yours is (2) above -- and perhaps a burnt out
tube results in an unbalanced current draw, and triggers an overcurrent
as soon as the remaining tube filaments heat up. (Or, there could be a
thermal delay relay which waits until the filaments are expected to heat
up, and then switches on the DC power -- which could trip an overcurrent
sensor if there is a bad tube.

But it could be in any of them -- just less likely for me to
think of what is the probable mechanism.

More information likely from people who actually own such
machines. I just wish that I owned one. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

responding to
http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...he-560451-.htm
, tmackinator wrote:
news wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:18:02 +0000, tmackinator
wrote:

Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control
ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

You'll need to be more specific about which control you have. There
are motor/generator, thyratron, and solid state controls. And several
variations among those. The "modular" thyratron controls have
two 1
minute timers, but I'm reluctant to spend time with the schematic
without knowing if I'm looking at the right one.

--
Ned Simmons

Thanks for the reply, We have the Thyratron control with the two timers.It is
the last iteration of this design. I have since corrected the issue. What I
found was the the diodes in REC3 were both blown. When replaced with more
modern diodes of a proper rating, the spindle braking function was corrected
and surprisingly the control relay stayed latched also. We had replaced the
small c3j a while ago for a similar issue. The problem started when one
morning the lathe was switched on and went into full spindle speed immediatly.
That will really wake you up!

responding to
http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...he-560451-.htm
, tmackinator wrote:
BPdnicholsBP wrote:

On 2012-11-26, tmackinator

wrote:
Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the
control ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

Which 10EE? There are at least three types, maybe four.

The first three with the same DC spindle motor

1) The old motor-generator style.

2) The type with tube electronics.

3) The type with sold-state electronics

The next one a factory retrofit

4) Three phase spindle motor with VFD controlling the spindle
motor.

I suspect that yours is (2) above -- and perhaps a burnt out
tube results in an unbalanced current draw, and triggers an overcurrent

as soon as the remaining tube filaments heat up. (Or, there could be a

thermal delay relay which waits until the filaments are expected to
heat
up, and then switches on the DC power -- which could trip an
overcurrent
sensor if there is a bad tube.

But it could be in any of them -- just less likely for me to
think of what is the probable mechanism.

More information likely from people who actually own such
machines. I just wish that I owned one. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703)
938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. |
http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


Hi Don this is a repost of my reply to another response to my issue:Thanks for
the reply, We have the Thyratron control with the two timers.It is the last
iteration of this design. I have since corrected the issue. What I found was
the the diodes in REC3 were both blown. When replaced with more modern diodes
of a proper rating, the spindle braking function was corrected and
surprisingly the control relay stayed latched also. We had replaced the small
c3j a while ago for a similar issue. The problem started when one morning the
lathe was switched on and went into full spindle speed immediatly. That will
really wake you up! The lathe would switch off at about exactly a one minute
interval which I now suspect was caused by the filiment timer not sensing some
type of current draw due to the open diodes in rec3? BTW, we have two of
these machines, one tube type and one solid state type. These are just
excellent to use, they have spoiled me for other lathes!
--

On 2012-11-28, tmackinator wrote:
responding to

[ ... ]

Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the
control ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

Hi Don this is a repost of my reply to another response to my issue:Thanks for
the reply, We have the Thyratron control with the two timers.It is the last
iteration of this design. I have since corrected the issue. What I found was
the the diodes in REC3 were both blown. When replaced with more modern diodes
of a proper rating, the spindle braking function was corrected and
surprisingly the control relay stayed latched also.

Great!

We had replaced the small
c3j a while ago for a similar issue. The problem started when one morning the
lathe was switched on and went into full spindle speed immediatly. That will
really wake you up!

I hope that it did not have the maximum size chuck installed at
the time.

The lathe would switch off at about exactly a one minute
interval which I now suspect was caused by the filiment timer not sensing some
type of current draw due to the open diodes in rec3?

Sounds reasonable to me.

BTW, we have two of
these machines, one tube type and one solid state type. These are just
excellent to use, they have spoiled me for other lathes!

I'll bet. We had one at work -- one of the motor-generator
style, FWIW, with a bad tach, so spindle speed was a guess. Just tune
it by ear. :-)

Glad that it is now working for you.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:18:02 +0000, tmackinator
wrote:

responding to
http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...he-560451-.htm
, tmackinator wrote:
news wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:18:02 +0000, tmackinator
wrote:

Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control
ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

You'll need to be more specific about which control you have. There
are motor/generator, thyratron, and solid state controls. And several
variations among those. The "modular" thyratron controls have
two 1
minute timers, but I'm reluctant to spend time with the schematic
without knowing if I'm looking at the right one.

--
Ned Simmons

Thanks for the reply, We have the Thyratron control with the two timers.It is
the last iteration of this design. I have since corrected the issue. What I
found was the the diodes in REC3 were both blown. When replaced with more
modern diodes of a proper rating, the spindle braking function was corrected
and surprisingly the control relay stayed latched also. We had replaced the
small c3j a while ago for a similar issue. The problem started when one
morning the lathe was switched on and went into full spindle speed immediatly.
That will really wake you up!


That's the modular thyratron control I mentioned. Those old cartridge
diodes are hard to get hold of. In the 10EE I owned I replaced 4 of
them that were in a bridge configuration with a packaged full wave
bridge. I'm glad you were resourceful enough to get it going again.

You've probably already figured it oout, but the common thread in your
symtpoms, problems, and solution is they all appear to be related to
the motor field.

--
Ned Simmons

On 26 Nov 2012 23:06:10 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-11-26, tmackinator wrote:
Our monarch 10ee relay drops out 1 minute after puching the control ON button.
Any suggestions on what to look at?-TM

Which 10EE? There are at least three types, maybe four.

The first three with the same DC spindle motor

1) The old motor-generator style.

2) The type with tube electronics.

3) The type with sold-state electronics

The next one a factory retrofit

4) Three phase spindle motor with VFD controlling the spindle
motor.

I suspect that yours is (2) above -- and perhaps a burnt out
tube results in an unbalanced current draw, and triggers an overcurrent
as soon as the remaining tube filaments heat up. (Or, there could be a
thermal delay relay which waits until the filaments are expected to heat
up, and then switches on the DC power -- which could trip an overcurrent
sensor if there is a bad tube.

But it could be in any of them -- just less likely for me to
think of what is the probable mechanism.

More information likely from people who actually own such
machines. I just wish that I owned one. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

However..you only want ..seriously...#3

Maybe #1...but definately NOT #2

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie