Hooked up a new Teknosha P3 brake controller, and thought all was well.
Hooked it up to a loaded trailer today with electric brakes, and I get a "NO
TRAILER CONNECTED" message on the display. Manual controller does not send
any juice back to make brakes function. Had set the controller to 6.0 as
per directions. Seems electricity is not reaching wheels, or even past
coupler, which is just long enough if I don't make any turns. Have to
lengthen that a foot anyway.

Guess there is a loose frammel somewhere. 90% of the time, in my
experience, it is a loose or broken ground.

Do I just take a 12 V. battery back there, take the necessary parts off, and
hit it with some juice to see if the brakes are even hooked up? I just got
this trailer, and have not had the hubs off it, and don't even know if it
has brake shoes on it. If I do hit the wire with some juice, the brake
should just function, right?

I am reluctant to do much with the controller, as it says it is easy to
short it out, and it will fry it instantly, no refunds.

Guess the right way is to just jack it up, take the wheels off, take the
hubs off, and see what's there.

Do I adjust brakes like others, with a spoon or long screwdriver until they
just make contact, then back them off until they quit rubbing?

Right?

Shortcuts and diagnosing expertise welcomed.

Steve

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 21:23:56 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

Hooked up a new Teknosha P3 brake controller, and thought all was well.
Hooked it up to a loaded trailer today with electric brakes, and I get a "NO
TRAILER CONNECTED" message on the display. Manual controller does not send
any juice back to make brakes function. Had set the controller to 6.0 as
per directions. Seems electricity is not reaching wheels, or even past
coupler, which is just long enough if I don't make any turns. Have to
lengthen that a foot anyway.

Guess there is a loose frammel somewhere. 90% of the time, in my
experience, it is a loose or broken ground.

Do I just take a 12 V. battery back there, take the necessary parts off, and
hit it with some juice to see if the brakes are even hooked up? I just got
this trailer, and have not had the hubs off it, and don't even know if it
has brake shoes on it. If I do hit the wire with some juice, the brake
should just function, right?

I am reluctant to do much with the controller, as it says it is easy to
short it out, and it will fry it instantly, no refunds.

Guess the right way is to just jack it up, take the wheels off, take the
hubs off, and see what's there.

Do I adjust brakes like others, with a spoon or long screwdriver until they
just make contact, then back them off until they quit rubbing?

Right?

Shortcuts and diagnosing expertise welcomed.

Steve


Have you put an ohm meter on the trailer wiring yet? Find the pair
that comes off each wheel and check it for continuity, then hook em
together (in parallel and hook it to your controller. Zip cord,
telephone wire..just about anything will work for the test.

And make sure the wires from the brakes come back to the proper pins
on the connector, after you have determined that the brakes are indeed
working.

Oh..and put a 5 amp fuse in line with the hot wire for the controller
output. Or maybe a 8 amp? Anyone? Ive no idea of what amps trailer
brakes operate at. Ive got a 10 amp on mine..but its what I had on
hand once..shrug 2 brakes.


This might help....

http://www.etrailer.com/question-15680.html




Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

Steve B wrote:
Hooked up a new Teknosha P3 brake controller, and thought all was well.
Hooked it up to a loaded trailer today with electric brakes, and I get a "NO
TRAILER CONNECTED" message on the display. Manual controller does not send
any juice back to make brakes function. Had set the controller to 6.0 as
per directions. Seems electricity is not reaching wheels, or even past
coupler, which is just long enough if I don't make any turns. Have to
lengthen that a foot anyway.

Guess there is a loose frammel somewhere. 90% of the time, in my
experience, it is a loose or broken ground.

Broken ground or bad wiring.


Do I just take a 12 V. battery back there, take the necessary parts off, and
hit it with some juice to see if the brakes are even hooked up? I just got
this trailer, and have not had the hubs off it, and don't even know if it
has brake shoes on it. If I do hit the wire with some juice, the brake
should just function, right?

Yes to a point. You should hear it when they apply, but if they are
rusted or broken you might not.


I am reluctant to do much with the controller, as it says it is easy to
short it out, and it will fry it instantly, no refunds.

Guess the right way is to just jack it up, take the wheels off, take the
hubs off, and see what's there.

Yup, Also will tell you if the hubs are OK and show other problems.


Do I adjust brakes like others, with a spoon or long screwdriver until they
just make contact, then back them off until they quit rubbing?

Maybe. All depends on who made the brakes and which type they are. Some
adjust that way, others self adjust with a slider and some just wear out.


Right?

Shortcuts and diagnosing expertise welcomed.

Steve




--
Steve W.

On 8/13/2012 11:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
Hooked up a new Teknosha P3 brake controller, and thought all was well.
Hooked it up to a loaded trailer today with electric brakes, and I get a "NO
TRAILER CONNECTED" message on the display. Manual controller does not send
any juice back to make brakes function. Had set the controller to 6.0 as
per directions. Seems electricity is not reaching wheels, or even past
coupler, which is just long enough if I don't make any turns. Have to
lengthen that a foot anyway.

Guess there is a loose frammel somewhere. 90% of the time, in my
experience, it is a loose or broken ground.

Do I just take a 12 V. battery back there, take the necessary parts off, and
hit it with some juice to see if the brakes are even hooked up? I just got
this trailer, and have not had the hubs off it, and don't even know if it
has brake shoes on it. If I do hit the wire with some juice, the brake
should just function, right?

I am reluctant to do much with the controller, as it says it is easy to
short it out, and it will fry it instantly, no refunds.

Guess the right way is to just jack it up, take the wheels off, take the
hubs off, and see what's there.

Do I adjust brakes like others, with a spoon or long screwdriver until they
just make contact, then back them off until they quit rubbing?

Right?

Shortcuts and diagnosing expertise welcomed.

Steve



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

"Steve W." wrote

Guess there is a loose frammel somewhere. 90% of the time, in my
experience, it is a loose or broken ground.

Broken ground or bad wiring.

Started taking off the wiring today from the plug back.



Do I just take a 12 V. battery back there, take the necessary parts off,
and hit it with some juice to see if the brakes are even hooked up? I
just got this trailer, and have not had the hubs off it, and don't even
know if it has brake shoes on it. If I do hit the wire with some juice,
the brake should just function, right?

Yes to a point. You should hear it when they apply, but if they are rusted
or broken you might not.

Hit it with the juice from a battery charger today, had wifey listen from a
foot away, no sound, and she hears better than I want her to most times.



I am reluctant to do much with the controller, as it says it is easy to
short it out, and it will fry it instantly, no refunds.

Guess the right way is to just jack it up, take the wheels off, take the
hubs off, and see what's there.

Yup, Also will tell you if the hubs are OK and show other problems.

Ready to put it on jack stands tomorrow and pull the wheels and hubs and see
what's up on the inside, and apply power direct to the magnets.

Do I adjust brakes like others, with a spoon or long screwdriver until
they just make contact, then back them off until they quit rubbing?

Maybe. All depends on who made the brakes and which type they are. Some
adjust that way, others self adjust with a slider and some just wear out.

Will see that when I get the hubs off. Most common thing I have found is
faulty ground. This jumps from wheel to wheel, with brakes on only one of
the two axles. Will know more with it in the air, wheels and hubs off, and
I can see.

Will advise when I find the problemo.

Steve

"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

On 8/15/2012 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.


A screw connection (from connector to frame) and another (from frame to
brake)?

I'd prefer a wire to wire connection - ANY day.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

--
John G

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John G
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Most don't? Funny, I've worked on vehicles ranging from a 1937
Chevrolet through British and Japanese autos as well as trucks up to
50 tons and a mess of heavy equipment - bull dozers, earth movers,
cranes, etc. And I'll be damned if I can remember one that didn't use
the frame, or in the case of these new fangled things without a frame,
body, ground.

Cheers,
John B.

On 8/16/2012 6:48 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Most don't? Funny, I've worked on vehicles ranging from a 1937
Chevrolet through British and Japanese autos as well as trucks up to
50 tons and a mess of heavy equipment - bull dozers, earth movers,
cranes, etc. And I'll be damned if I can remember one that didn't use
the frame, or in the case of these new fangled things without a frame,
body, ground.

Cheers,
John B.

They didn't use microprocessors to control electrical things in 1937...

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John G
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Correct. And I recreated all sorts of wiring looms for autos for which
no harness was available back when I worked at the body shop.

Only the Brits, using "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" technology, use body
and frame grounds. Ask any Brit car owner how he likes it.
But be prepared to run. Some are _really_ fired up about it.

--
All of us want to do well. But if we do not do
good, too, then doing well will never be enough.
-- Anna Quindlen

John B. writes:


Most don't? Funny, I've worked on vehicles ranging from a 1937
Chevrolet through British and Japanese autos as well as trucks up to
50 tons and a mess of heavy equipment - bull dozers, earth movers,
cranes, etc. And I'll be damned if I can remember one that didn't use
the frame, or in the case of these new fangled things without a frame,
body, ground.

Try a 60's Morgan.....

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

"Richard" wrote

If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.
Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

Up until about 1998-99 most used chassis ground. However since then most
have switched over and run both ground and power lines to each item.
Cut's down on all the hash from bad connections causing the ECM to go nuts.
Plus many newer vehicles used switched ground to control items instead
of switching the hot side. That can be interesting when you try to wire
things in.

--
Steve W.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:39:20 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 8/16/2012 6:48 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Most don't? Funny, I've worked on vehicles ranging from a 1937
Chevrolet through British and Japanese autos as well as trucks up to
50 tons and a mess of heavy equipment - bull dozers, earth movers,
cranes, etc. And I'll be damned if I can remember one that didn't use
the frame, or in the case of these new fangled things without a frame,
body, ground.

Cheers,
John B.

They didn't use microprocessors to control electrical things in 1937...

No they didn't but on the other hand I just went out and looked at my
wife's Honda Fit and the negative battery cable runs directly from the
battery terminal to the car body and there is a separate cable to
connects the engine to the car body. The car, I might add has a
computer controlled transmission and engine.
Cheers,
John B.

On 8/16/2012 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:

No they didn't but on the other hand I just went out and looked at my
wife's Honda Fit and the negative battery cable runs directly from the
battery terminal to the car body and there is a separate cable to
connects the engine to the car body. The car, I might add has a
computer controlled transmission and engine.
Cheers,
John B.

well, there you go. now ya know.

But for trailers,
I'm still running wire to wire whenever possible.

It's(all) just that all (those) extra connection(s) from wire TO frame,
FROM frame to wire.

What are you recommending that we recommend, John?
At the other end?

Drill a hole in something and screw it?
Well, ok.
But i prefer to run wires.
And I solder sometimes too, dam it.


a tip for the gang?

Twist tops verses Press-In Clips.

Those press in clips s u c k.
Things just corrode away slowly and quickly, at the same time.
Dissimilar metal ain't the least of it.
You might get it working ok.
But that's where those things most often fail.
Wrap it and cap it.

If you are really serious solder it.

for the connection is blessed.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John G
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.
They most certainly do. Frame, chassis, or body - all the same thing
on a unit-body vehicle. Virtually NO return-wire ground systems on ANY
motor vehicle

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:39:20 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 8/16/2012 6:48 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Most don't? Funny, I've worked on vehicles ranging from a 1937
Chevrolet through British and Japanese autos as well as trucks up to
50 tons and a mess of heavy equipment - bull dozers, earth movers,
cranes, etc. And I'll be damned if I can remember one that didn't use
the frame, or in the case of these new fangled things without a frame,
body, ground.

Cheers,
John B.

They didn't use microprocessors to control electrical things in 1937...
"signal" grounds are wired. "power" grounds still use the chassis on
MOST vehicles today. Even most with CAN-BUSS controlled devices.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:03:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John G
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Correct. And I recreated all sorts of wiring looms for autos for which
no harness was available back when I worked at the body shop.

Only the Brits, using "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" technology, use body
and frame grounds. Ask any Brit car owner how he likes it.
But be prepared to run. Some are _really_ fired up about it.
I beg to differ with you. Body grounds were very common on every
American,Japanese, or German car I ever worked on as a professional
mechanic , and my current vehicles (OK, they are 10 years old) still
use chassis/body grounds for the majority of the circuits. Tearing the
wiring harness out of a friend's Miata, there were numerous "ground
points" where the black ground wires were screwed to the body/chassis
and a friend's F150 also used body grounds extensively - and one that
was connected to a patch of ferric oxide caused considerable problems
untill it was located (and the windsheild fixed to prevent more
rusting)

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 23:34:38 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:03:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John G
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Correct. And I recreated all sorts of wiring looms for autos for which
no harness was available back when I worked at the body shop.

Only the Brits, using "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" technology, use body
and frame grounds. Ask any Brit car owner how he likes it.
But be prepared to run. Some are _really_ fired up about it.
I beg to differ with you. Body grounds were very common on every
American,Japanese, or German car I ever worked on as a professional
mechanic , and my current vehicles (OK, they are 10 years old) still
use chassis/body grounds for the majority of the circuits. Tearing the
wiring harness out of a friend's Miata, there were numerous "ground
points" where the black ground wires were screwed to the body/chassis
and a friend's F150 also used body grounds extensively - and one that
was connected to a patch of ferric oxide caused considerable problems
untill it was located (and the windsheild fixed to prevent more
rusting)

Perhaps this came about since '85, when I retired from wrenching? I
don't recall seeing too many frame grounds and NO body grounds except
for a few on the firewalls, which mostly connected harness grounds
together.

But the Brits grounded each lamp/motor at the site, creating a
nightmare for the owners because the fenders/bonnets/doors developed
rust between parts and the oxidized contacts didn't permit proper
electrical flow. Watching a Brit car on a back road at night, you'd
think they were a Morse code billboard. blink, blink, b, b, blink

--
All of us want to do well. But if we do not do
good, too, then doing well will never be enough.
-- Anna Quindlen

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 21:10:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 23:34:38 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:03:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John G
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Correct. And I recreated all sorts of wiring looms for autos for which
no harness was available back when I worked at the body shop.

Only the Brits, using "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" technology, use body
and frame grounds. Ask any Brit car owner how he likes it.
But be prepared to run. Some are _really_ fired up about it.
I beg to differ with you. Body grounds were very common on every
American,Japanese, or German car I ever worked on as a professional
mechanic , and my current vehicles (OK, they are 10 years old) still
use chassis/body grounds for the majority of the circuits. Tearing the
wiring harness out of a friend's Miata, there were numerous "ground
points" where the black ground wires were screwed to the body/chassis
and a friend's F150 also used body grounds extensively - and one that
was connected to a patch of ferric oxide caused considerable problems
untill it was located (and the windsheild fixed to prevent more
rusting)

Perhaps this came about since '85, when I retired from wrenching? I
don't recall seeing too many frame grounds and NO body grounds except
for a few on the firewalls, which mostly connected harness grounds
together.

But the Brits grounded each lamp/motor at the site, creating a
nightmare for the owners because the fenders/bonnets/doors developed
rust between parts and the oxidized contacts didn't permit proper
electrical flow. Watching a Brit car on a back road at night, you'd
think they were a Morse code billboard. blink, blink, b, b, blink
I've been wrenching since 1968, and on just about any make you can
name - and ALL of them used a chassis return ground for MOST of the
circuits. Yes, on many makes there were a cluster of wires brought out
to one ground point where they screwed to the body - but even many
American vehicles grounded the tail lights - for instance, by bolting
them to the body, and the bulb socket grounded to the pot-metal lamp
housing. OK until it turned to dust. Or to the cadmium plated steel
lamp housing. Which sometimes rusted out. Or the socket rusted out.

But just about as many power wires corroded off at the socket, or
inside the harness - particularly where wires were joined together in
the harness, way back in the taped-up mess of wires. A whole lot
EASIER to find and repair a bad chassis ground than a bad wiring
harness - and you can take THAT to the bank!!!!

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 22:28:34 -0400, wrote:


I've been wrenching since 1968, and on just about any make you can
name - and ALL of them used a chassis return ground for MOST of the
circuits. Yes, on many makes there were a cluster of wires brought out
to one ground point where they screwed to the body - but even many
American vehicles grounded the tail lights - for instance, by bolting
them to the body, and the bulb socket grounded to the pot-metal lamp
housing. OK until it turned to dust. Or to the cadmium plated steel
lamp housing. Which sometimes rusted out. Or the socket rusted out.

But just about as many power wires corroded off at the socket, or
inside the harness - particularly where wires were joined together in
the harness, way back in the taped-up mess of wires. A whole lot
EASIER to find and repair a bad chassis ground than a bad wiring
harness - and you can take THAT to the bank!!!!
Like the '83 "K" cars with the door lock/power window harness crossing
under the dirver's floor mat and all the connections spot welded and
protected with a fold over of cloth friction tape - maybe OK in a
dessert environment but less than ideal in the snow/salt belt.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:48:59 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:25:37 +1000, John G
wrote:

John B. formulated on Thursday :
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:38:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:27:20 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote



If it's more than a single axle, remember, they are to be wired in
parallel, not series.

A battery and controller sitting by the wheel might help.

Wire it up and squeeze the tit.
See it the brake moves.

Check them all, If they all work, back track through the wiring to the
connector.

DON'T use the trailer frame for ground!

And a circuit tester with a light works better than volt meter.

Thanks for the tips. I woulda got the ground thing wrong.

Steve

Commercial trailers have been using the frame for ground for decades -
and it works if it is done PROPERLY. Harder to screw up a fround WIRE
than a frame, but also easier to damage the WIRE. Six of one, half
dozen of the other, in my books. I'll stick with a "chassis ground" -
same as used on the tow vehicle, and same as has been used for
decades.

Don't most automobiles uses a "frame ground" :-)
Cheers,
John B.

No.

Most don't? Funny, I've worked on vehicles ranging from a 1937
Chevrolet through British and Japanese autos as well as trucks up to
50 tons and a mess of heavy equipment - bull dozers, earth movers,
cranes, etc. And I'll be damned if I can remember one that didn't use
the frame, or in the case of these new fangled things without a frame,
body, ground.

Cheers,
John B.

My 2001 Ranger is frame grounded for most items. Shrug

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper