I had to remove a broken aluminum window from one of my garage walk
doors.

I found I could gently pry the frame out of the opening with just a thin
putty knife, but when I got it out, I found something that surprised me.

The sealant the manufacturer used had the properties of both a silicone
sealant, and a non-hardening, clear "goo" -- the gooey part acted like a
conventional putty, but the hardening part acted just like regular
silicone sealant.

The bead appeared to have been gunned onto the door, then allowed to cure
completely before screwing the frame onto the caulk. The "silicone" part
was just as strongly adhered to the door skin as you'd suspect regular
silicone would be (although it was a bit softer and more elastic that GE
Silicone), but the gummy part only adhered to the window frame by its
tackiness. It was a perfect sealant, in that it compressed fairly
easily, sealed well, but allowed the window to be removed easily for
repairs.

There was broken glass embedded in the sealant bead, and the bead had
been cut in a couple of places where the glass edges got it, so I scraped
it off the door.

I can use regular non-hardening "ribbon caulk" to re-do this, but I'm
fascinated by the sealant they used.

Has anyone here worked in a window or door manufactury and is familiar
with this stuff. I'd love to use it on future jobs, if I can find a
source. The manufacturer of the door is no help -- must be a "trade
secret".

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I had to remove a broken aluminum window from one of my garage walk
doors.

I found I could gently pry the frame out of the opening with just a thin
putty knife, but when I got it out, I found something that surprised me.

The sealant the manufacturer used had the properties of both a silicone
sealant, and a non-hardening, clear "goo" -- the gooey part acted like a
conventional putty, but the hardening part acted just like regular
silicone sealant.

The bead appeared to have been gunned onto the door, then allowed to cure
completely before screwing the frame onto the caulk. The "silicone" part
was just as strongly adhered to the door skin as you'd suspect regular
silicone would be (although it was a bit softer and more elastic that GE
Silicone), but the gummy part only adhered to the window frame by its
tackiness. It was a perfect sealant, in that it compressed fairly
easily, sealed well, but allowed the window to be removed easily for
repairs.

There was broken glass embedded in the sealant bead, and the bead had
been cut in a couple of places where the glass edges got it, so I scraped
it off the door.

I can use regular non-hardening "ribbon caulk" to re-do this, but I'm
fascinated by the sealant they used.

Has anyone here worked in a window or door manufactury and is familiar
with this stuff. I'd love to use it on future jobs, if I can find a
source. The manufacturer of the door is no help -- must be a "trade
secret".

LLoyd

Urethane window adhesive. Same stuff that is used to glue in auto glass.

The outer "shell" will harden up and be sort of like silicone (flexible,
no tacky feel) while the inner core will not fully cure and stays
semi liquid.

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-f...0-p-11379.aspx

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:jum9o6$qkq$1
@dont-email.me:

Urethane window adhesive. Same stuff that is used to glue in auto
glass.

The outer "shell" will harden up and be sort of like silicone
(flexible,
no tacky feel) while the inner core will not fully cure and stays
semi liquid.

No, just the opposite here. I've used urethane windshield sealer.

This stuff was "hard" in the core, and gummy on the surface, except right
where it was gunned on. Not just soft on the surface, but really
aggressively sticky, and the stuff would come off on your fingers. Yet,
the bead adhered strongly to the surface on which it was originally
applied.

This stuff is really "backwards" from any other sealant I've seen. ALL
the others skin over and either cure solid, or remain soft at the core.
This stuff is hard at the core and soft on the outside.

This is also milky-clear, just like regular silicone sealant.

LLoyd

Lexel, ma

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:37:04 AM UTC-6, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I had to remove a broken aluminum window from one of my garage walk
doors.

I found I could gently pry the frame out of the opening with just a thin
putty knife, but when I got it out, I found something that surprised me.

The sealant the manufacturer used had the properties of both a silicone
sealant, and a non-hardening, clear "goo" -- the gooey part acted like a
conventional putty, but the hardening part acted just like regular
silicone sealant.

The bead appeared to have been gunned onto the door, then allowed to cure
completely before screwing the frame onto the caulk. The "silicone" part
was just as strongly adhered to the door skin as you'd suspect regular
silicone would be (although it was a bit softer and more elastic that GE
Silicone), but the gummy part only adhered to the window frame by its
tackiness. It was a perfect sealant, in that it compressed fairly
easily, sealed well, but allowed the window to be removed easily for
repairs.

There was broken glass embedded in the sealant bead, and the bead had
been cut in a couple of places where the glass edges got it, so I scraped
it off the door.

I can use regular non-hardening "ribbon caulk" to re-do this, but I'm
fascinated by the sealant they used.

Has anyone here worked in a window or door manufactury and is familiar
with this stuff. I'd love to use it on future jobs, if I can find a
source. The manufacturer of the door is no help -- must be a "trade
secret".

LLoyd

Lexel, maybe? Ace carries that, $11-12/tube. Only clear sealant I know that really sticks and stays rubbery. Silicone isn't as clear.

Stan

fired this volley in
:

Lexel, maybe? Ace carries that, $11-12/tube. Only clear sealant I
know that really sticks and stays rubbery. Silicone isn't as clear.

No... I've used the acrylic/styrene solvent-based sealants, also. They
are tough and rubbery. They do NOT stay "wet" and gummy on the air-
exposed surface. They skin over quickly, self-level well, and are great
sealants.

But you'd NEVER get a window back out of a steel door if you glued the
whole flange to the door with that stuff.

This sealant was cured on the door, still "wet" on the window side, and
very, very soft, so it complied almost like regular caulk when the window
was screwed together.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Lexel, maybe? Ace carries that, $11-12/tube. Only clear sealant I
know that really sticks and stays rubbery. Silicone isn't as clear.

No... I've used the acrylic/styrene solvent-based sealants, also. They
are tough and rubbery. They do NOT stay "wet" and gummy on the air-
exposed surface. They skin over quickly, self-level well, and are great
sealants.

But you'd NEVER get a window back out of a steel door if you glued the
whole flange to the door with that stuff.

This sealant was cured on the door, still "wet" on the window side, and
very, very soft, so it complied almost like regular caulk when the window
was screwed together.


Does the door have a label with the company name that you could use
to locate the OEM?

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...
fired this volley in
:

Lexel, maybe? Ace carries that, $11-12/tube. Only clear sealant I
know that really sticks and stays rubbery. Silicone isn't as clear.

No... I've used the acrylic/styrene solvent-based sealants, also. They
are tough and rubbery. They do NOT stay "wet" and gummy on the air-
exposed surface. They skin over quickly, self-level well, and are great
sealants.

But you'd NEVER get a window back out of a steel door if you glued the
whole flange to the door with that stuff.

This sealant was cured on the door, still "wet" on the window side, and
very, very soft, so it complied almost like regular caulk when the window
was screwed together.

LLoyd

May be they just brush on something that inhibits the cure of the sealant.
There are a lot of things that do this to silicone. Maybe it was not even
intentional?

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:


Does the door have a label with the company name that you could use
to locate the OEM?

The company desk "didn't know anything about the caulk..." That's the
"Florida Salute" -- _I_ don't know!

LLoyd

"anorton" fired this volley in news:8t-
:

Maybe it was not even
intentional?


That's a good point. It only takes about five minutes to remove and clean
up one of those windows (when it isn't broken). I have two such doors.
I'll check the other one, too.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:


Does the door have a label with the company name that you could use
to locate the OEM?

The company desk "didn't know anything about the caulk..." That's the
"Florida Salute" -- _I_ don't know!


As translated from the orignal German, "I KNOW NOTHINK!!!"

Did you ask them to ask production? Tell them you need the MSDS, so
you don't have to ask the EPA to get the information to safely dispose
of the materials without paying hazmat fees. ;-)

On Jul 24, 7:37*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
I had to remove a broken aluminum window from one of my garage walk
doors.

I found I could gently pry the frame out of the opening with just a thin
putty knife, but when I got it out, I found something that surprised me.

The sealant the manufacturer used had the properties of both a silicone
sealant, and a non-hardening, clear "goo" -- the gooey part acted like a
conventional putty, but the hardening part acted just like regular
silicone sealant.

The bead appeared to have been gunned onto the door, then allowed to cure
completely before screwing the frame onto the caulk. *The "silicone" part
was just as strongly adhered to the door skin as you'd suspect regular
silicone would be (although it was a bit softer and more elastic that GE
Silicone), but the gummy part only adhered to the window frame by its
tackiness. *It was a perfect sealant, in that it compressed fairly
easily, sealed well, but allowed the window to be removed easily for
repairs.

There was broken glass embedded in the sealant bead, and the bead had
been cut in a couple of places where the glass edges got it, so I scraped
it off the door.

I can use regular non-hardening "ribbon caulk" to re-do this, but I'm
fascinated by the sealant they used.

Has anyone here worked in a window or door manufactury and is familiar
with this stuff. *I'd love to use it on future jobs, if I can find a
source. *The manufacturer of the door is no help -- must be a "trade
secret".

LLoyd

Maybe this product:
http://www.novagard.com/swat/swat.html

On 07/24/2012 05:07 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"anorton" fired this volley in news:8t-
:

Maybe it was not even
intentional?


That's a good point. It only takes about five minutes to remove and clean
up one of those windows (when it isn't broken). I have two such doors.
I'll check the other one, too.

Call me naive, but I couldn't help but think that maybe they just had a
bad batch of sealant, like the problems that plagued GE Si II for awhile
(kept it from curing fully).

Jon

On Jul 24, 8:37*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
I had to remove a broken aluminum window from one of my garage walk
doors.

I found I could gently pry the frame out of the opening with just a thin
putty knife, but when I got it out, I found something that surprised me.

The sealant the manufacturer used had the properties of both a silicone
sealant, and a non-hardening, clear "goo" -- the gooey part acted like a
conventional putty, but the hardening part acted just like regular
silicone sealant.

A related question that's been on my mind for years, and since I'm
just getting retty to refurb 20 windows in my house...

Is there something better than old-fashioned glazing putty to seal
glass in wood sashes? I was thinking that maybe RTV silicone would do
better and last longer.

Any thoughts?

Is there something better than old-fashioned glazing putty to seal
glass in wood sashes? I was thinking that maybe RTV silicone would do
better and last longer.

Any thoughts?

If you're still using the old oil and whiting putty, then yes. I've used DAP for years. Usually lasts until the glass is replaced. Key thing is that the glass has to be CLEAN, no fingerprints, no oil, no paint, where the putty is supposed to stick to it. Same thing with the frame, old putty has to be scraped off down to bare wood. Then a coat of paint over the top keeps it good for 20 years or so. I did the 25 windows(plus storms) the folks had during a college break one year, lasted until they replaced them with vinyl 30 years later. A clean and polished putty knife helps, too. Flexible for application, sharp and rigid for chipping out the old stuff.

Stan

rangerssuck fired this volley in news:47f35f7d-
:

Is there something better than old-fashioned glazing putty to seal
glass in wood sashes? I was thinking that maybe RTV silicone would do
better and last longer.

The common wisdom is to use siliconized acrylic caulk.

You cannot paint RTV silicones, nor paint any surface to which they've
been previously applied unless you sand down to bare wood again.

The siliconized acrylics are paintable, last well, and are strong (once
thoroughly dry. They shrink somewhat more than glazing putty, and are a
bit more difficult to remove in the future, but work quite well.

----

On the comment about failed silicone -- yes, that might be it. I wish I
knew how to cause it to fail in just that way (if that's the case),
because it is a superior window-to-steel-door sealant in that condition.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
(snip)
On the comment about failed silicone -- yes, that might be it. I wish I
knew how to cause it to fail in just that way (if that's the case),
because it is a superior window-to-steel-door sealant in that condition.

LLoyd

I think different types of silicone are sensitive to different things, but
the usual culprits are sulphur compounds, oils, and amine compounds. you
could experiment with some things.

On Jul 25, 9:57*am, rangerssuck wrote:
On Jul 24, 8:37*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
I had to remove a broken aluminum window from one of my garage walk
doors.

I found I could gently pry the frame out of the opening with just a thin
putty knife, but when I got it out, I found something that surprised me..

The sealant the manufacturer used had the properties of both a silicone
sealant, and a non-hardening, clear "goo" -- the gooey part acted like a
conventional putty, but the hardening part acted just like regular
silicone sealant.

A related question that's been on my mind for years, and since I'm
just getting retty to refurb 20 windows in my house...

Is there something better than old-fashioned glazing putty to seal
glass in wood sashes? I was thinking that maybe RTV silicone would do
better and last longer.

Any thoughts?

Consider using double back tape to hold the glass in place while the
sealant sets up.


Dan

" fired this volley in news:655a686a-
:

Consider using double back tape to hold the glass in place while the
sealant sets up.

DAN! Have you never used glazier's points? That's what they're for!

Lloyd

On Jul 25, 2:06*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
..

DAN! *Have you never used glazier's points? *That's what they're for!

Lloyd

Have you ever used double back tape? You just press the window in
place.

Dan

" fired this volley in news:96200ed8-
:

Have you ever used double back tape? You just press the window in
place.


And then it doesn't sit in against the frame where it should, leaving an
ugly gap on the inside surface that must also be caulked.

Glazier's points are cheaper, too.

I use lots of double-stick in the shop, including a very aggressive, thin
tape for mounting work on the mill that cannot be clamped -- but never
for anything that must fit tight to its mating surface.

LLoyd

On Jul 25, 2:40*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:


And then it doesn't sit in against the frame where it should, leaving an
ugly gap on the inside surface that must also be caulked.

I have not had that problem.

Glazier's points are cheaper, too.

But they do not work on aluminum frame windows.

I use lots of double-stick in the shop, including a very aggressive, thin
tape for mounting work on the mill that cannot be clamped -- but never
for anything that must fit tight to its mating surface.

Check with your glass supplier. They sell double back tape for use in
replacing windows.

Dan

LLoyd

" fired this volley in news:746a3411-
:

But they do not work on aluminum frame windows.

Dan... The poster asked about re-working wooden windows, and asked about
substitutes for glazing putty.

Not aluminum. Not PVC. Not even carved from Elk horn. Wood.

LLoyd

On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 12:13:04 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Jul 25, 2:40*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>
> And then it doesn't sit in against the frame where it should, leaving an
> ugly gap on the inside surface that must also be caulked.
>
I have not had that problem.

> Glazier's points are cheaper, too.
>
But they do not work on aluminum frame windows.

You can rip a thin strip of wood, glue it to the aluminum frame, and use the points.
It sounds like too much work, BUT the wood supports heavy (double-pane sandwich)
glass better than securing it with tape, and covers any and all blemishes/seams
in the aluminum joints. Especially for my tilt-out windows, with metal screws
that could contact the glass, that wood spacing is key. I bore holes in the wood
where the screws penetrate, of course.

On Jul 25, 5:14*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Dan... *The poster asked about re-working wooden windows, and asked about
substitutes for glazing putty.

Not aluminum. *Not PVC. *Not even carved from Elk horn. *Wood.

LLoyd

You are right. I was thinking of some thermopane windows I replaced.

Dan

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:37:04 AM UTC-10, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I had to remove a broken aluminum window from one of my garage walk
doors.

I found I could gently pry the frame out of the opening with just a thin
putty knife, but when I got it out, I found something that surprised me.

The sealant the manufacturer used had the properties of both a silicone
sealant, and a non-hardening, clear "goo" -- the gooey part acted like a
conventional putty, but the hardening part acted just like regular
silicone sealant.

The bead appeared to have been gunned onto the door, then allowed to cure
completely before screwing the frame onto the caulk. The "silicone" part
was just as strongly adhered to the door skin as you'd suspect regular
silicone would be (although it was a bit softer and more elastic that GE
Silicone), but the gummy part only adhered to the window frame by its
tackiness. It was a perfect sealant, in that it compressed fairly
easily, sealed well, but allowed the window to be removed easily for
repairs.

There was broken glass embedded in the sealant bead, and the bead had
been cut in a couple of places where the glass edges got it, so I scraped
it off the door.

I can use regular non-hardening "ribbon caulk" to re-do this, but I'm
fascinated by the sealant they used.

Has anyone here worked in a window or door manufactury and is familiar
with this stuff. I'd love to use it on future jobs, if I can find a
source. The manufacturer of the door is no help -- must be a "trade
secret".

LLoyd

Why not talk to 3M's tech people. They probably made it.
Karl