ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...d=pm_local_pop

Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop

Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you, believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN

In article ,
Ignoramus3314 wrote:

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rejects-critic
al-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop

Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'd be careful here. We have no idea what exactly in in HOTS, and are
instead being presented with argument by ridicule.

And I got off the train when they claimed that critical thinking cannot
be taught. Nonsense. It has been taught for millennia. The Ancient
Greeks called it Rhetoric, which was a core part of the Liberal
Education ever since, and it is taught to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric

Joe Gwinn

On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop

Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you, believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the
truth and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke

On 7/11/2012 1:04 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop


Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the
truth and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke




It's good to see you back playing the fool, Hawkie.

On 7/10/2012 6:31 PM, Ignoramus3314 wrote:
ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...d=pm_local_pop

Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education

This is *NOT* what it is being presented to be. It is *NOT* the case
that the Texas Republicans oppose children acquiring critical thinking
skills, and this deliberate misrepresentation by the idiot Post writer
shows a disgusting left-wing bias as well as an appalling lack of
comprehension on her part.

The opposition to the HOTS instruction rather has three sound bases:

1. Pedagogical appropriateness - there is a very lively debate among
educators as to the appropriate level to begin teaching HOTS. A
substantial part of the opposition is not due to any ideological
opposition to HOTS, but rather because it is thought that it is
being taught too early, to children who haven't achieved standard
subject mastery.

2. It *is* being included as part of an "outcomes-based education"
curriculum, and that is opposed by a lot of people as being a
dumbing-down of education.

3. While so-called "critical thinking" skills are supposed to be an
important part of HOTS, the program really is about so-called
"values clarification", which is left-wing code for discarding
traditional values simply because they *are* traditional values,
rather than the ethical relativism preached by leftists.


This smear by the Post has already generated a response in Wikipedia:

The Texas Republican Party expressed their opposition to the
teaching of certain HOTS by including the following item in their
2012 Party Platform [3]:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher
Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical
thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a
relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning)
which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining
parental authority."

However, the final wording of this item was evidently a 'mistake'
according to Republican Party of Texas Communications Director
Chris Elam who said, in an interview with talkingpointsmemo.com,
that the plank should not have included the phrase 'critical
thinking skills' and it was not the intent of the subcommittee to
indicate that the RPT was opposed to critical thinking skills".
When asked to clarify the meaning of the item he said, "I think the
intent is that the Republican Party is opposed to the values
clarification method that serves the purpose of challenging
students beliefs and undermine parental authority" [4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills

Less than a year. Everyone will say "Hey, lets
wait and see how this pans out", and no one will
spend discretionary money on anything at all.
The US economy will come to a stop.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Richard" wrote in message
m...

You see, if you take my money to pay other people's
bills, how long will it be before I can't pay MY bills?

Then I become one more of the dependents.

On 7/11/2012 11:04 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop


Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students.

Which is why the public schools should be dismantled.

"Hawke" wrote in message ...

On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you, believe
us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the truth
and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke

Here's a real deal example of how this works. An person I was communicating
with on another newsgroup once went to seminary, IIRC he was interested in
being a Priest or something like that. He learned from liberal Bible
scholars and came away not believing anything. In the discussion I
mentioned the book of Isaiah and he wanted me to research about the book of
Isaiah, he wanted me to find out some "real facts" about Isaiah that he had
learned by his critical thinking liberal professors.

But there was a complete FAIL of what he had learned from the liberal false
teachers. What the liberals taught about the book of Isaiah, written by 2
different authors many years apart with half of it much more recent, had
already been PROVEN WRONG by the finding of the nearly complete book of
Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The conclusion drawn by the "critical thinking" liberals was COMPLETELY
WRONG. Their "critical thinking" was wrong from the beginning, not just
after being proven wrong by the Dead Sea Scrolls. How many millions of
other libtarded "Critical Thinking" conclusions are also completely wrong
even though they may not have been proven wrong yet? Hint: their "CRITICAL
THINKING" was WRONG from the beginning, not just after being proven wrong.

So how com these "Critical Thinkers" want kids to question everything taught
to them by their parents but want them to believe everything their liberal
teachers tell them? Why doesn't every student have to prove that light
travels 186,000 miles per second? Because Liberals want to rewrite history,
they need to get people to stop accepting true history so they can sell
their lies.

The bottom line, these "Critical Thinkers" try to teach kids to reject truth
and accept liberal lies. Sorry you bought it.

RogerN

On 7/11/2012 11:40 AM, Richard wrote:
On 7/11/2012 1:04 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop



Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the
truth and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke




It's good to see you back playing the fool, Hawkie.




Sorry but I can't allow RogerN's ignorance and religious nonsense to go
unanswered. Whenever I see things that are clearly wrong I have to set
people straight. You always think I'm wrong but I'll match my facts with
yours any time you want.

Hawke

On 7/11/2012 2:45 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

This smear by the Post has already generated a response in Wikipedia:

The Texas Republican Party expressed their opposition to the
teaching of certain HOTS by including the following item in their
2012 Party Platform [3]:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher
Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical
thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a
relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning)
which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining
parental authority."

However, the final wording of this item was evidently a 'mistake'
according to Republican Party of Texas Communications Director
Chris Elam who said, in an interview with talkingpointsmemo.com,
that the plank should not have included the phrase 'critical
thinking skills' and it was not the intent of the subcommittee to
indicate that the RPT was opposed to critical thinking skills".
When asked to clarify the meaning of the item he said, "I think the
intent is that the Republican Party is opposed to the values
clarification method that serves the purpose of challenging
students beliefs and undermine parental authority" [4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills


Whatever the truth may be you can't blame a rational person for thinking
that in Texas they are opposed to teaching children to think critically.
That sounds just like something they would do in Texas. They wouldn't
teach the kids to think but they would teach them scripture. Sounds like
Texas to me.

Hawke

On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:04 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop



Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students.

Which is why the public schools should be dismantled.

They should have dismantled them before you went to one. They wasted
their time on you. You didn't learn anything.

Hawke

On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message ...

On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you, believe
us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the truth
and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke

Here's a real deal example of how this works. An person I was communicating
with on another newsgroup once went to seminary, IIRC he was interested in
being a Priest or something like that. He learned from liberal Bible
scholars and came away not believing anything. In the discussion I
mentioned the book of Isaiah and he wanted me to research about the book of
Isaiah, he wanted me to find out some "real facts" about Isaiah that he had
learned by his critical thinking liberal professors.

But there was a complete FAIL of what he had learned from the liberal false
teachers. What the liberals taught about the book of Isaiah, written by 2
different authors many years apart with half of it much more recent, had
already been PROVEN WRONG by the finding of the nearly complete book of
Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The conclusion drawn by the "critical thinking" liberals was COMPLETELY
WRONG. Their "critical thinking" was wrong from the beginning, not just
after being proven wrong by the Dead Sea Scrolls. How many millions of
other libtarded "Critical Thinking" conclusions are also completely wrong
even though they may not have been proven wrong yet? Hint: their "CRITICAL
THINKING" was WRONG from the beginning, not just after being proven wrong.

So how com these "Critical Thinkers" want kids to question everything taught
to them by their parents but want them to believe everything their liberal
teachers tell them? Why doesn't every student have to prove that light
travels 186,000 miles per second? Because Liberals want to rewrite history,
they need to get people to stop accepting true history so they can sell
their lies.

The bottom line, these "Critical Thinkers" try to teach kids to reject truth
and accept liberal lies. Sorry you bought it.

RogerN


Here's the thing Roger. See, you look at everything you hear from what
you call liberals as being untrustworthy, and you constantly look to
find anything you can that is wrong. You're overly critical of any
information that comes from anywhere that you deem to be "liberal". But
when it comes to any scripture you are completely uncritical. You accept
all of it as if it is factual. You don't question it anywhere near the
way you question everything that comes from teachers or the media. You
start off by accepting whatever is written in religious texts as being
the truth and you start off denying everything else you read as being
lies. If you ever looked at scripture with the disbelief you do at what
liberals say you would have a lot less faith in your religion than you
do. No wonder you never question scripture. It would shake your faith.
Couldn't have that.


Hawke

On 7/11/2012 10:24 PM, Hawke wrote:


Sorry but I can't allow RogerN's ignorance and religious nonsense to go
unanswered. Whenever I see things that are clearly wrong I have to set
people straight. You always think I'm wrong but I'll match my facts with
yours any time you want.

Hawke

Sorry guy.
I don't keep a special set of "facts" like you do.


And maybe you didn't notice.
Count me among believers in regards to what you call
religious nonsense. It's right there on my web page.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/cross.htm

On 7/11/2012 10:24 PM, Hawke wrote:

Sorry but I can't allow RogerN's ignorance and religious nonsense to go
unanswered. Whenever I see things that are clearly wrong I have to set
people straight. You always think I'm wrong but I'll match my facts with
yours any time you want.

Hawke




All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes,.... All right and well,
not only some, but all, having a high opinion of himself; for this is to
be understood of a self-righteous man, who is pure in his own eyes,
though not cleansed from his filthiness, and so fancies every way he
walks in, and everything he does, is pure; this is owing to want of
knowledge of the impurity of his nature; was he sensible of this, he
would see that his best righteousness is as filthy rags and to his
ignorance of the spirituality of the law, which, was he acquainted with,
he would find, on comparing himself with it, that he and all he did was
polluted and unclean: some read the words, "all the ways of a pure man
are before his eyes": the eyes of the Lord, he sees them, and approves
of them; so Aben Ezra; and to this agrees the Septuagint version, "all
the works of an humble man are manifest with God"; and the Arabic
version, "all the works of an humble man are clean before God"; but the
former reading and sense seem best;

but the Lord weigheth the spirits; searches and tries the hearts; he
sees, knows, and observes the principles of all actions, and can as
exactly adjust the nature and quality of them, as a man, with a pair of
scales in his hands, can tell precisely the weight of anything put into
them; the Lord weighs the spirits, or hearts, from whence all actions
flow, by his omniscience, and accordingly judges of them by that, and
not by the outward appearance; and he weighs all actions by his law, in
the balance of the sanctuary, where they are found wanting, and come
greatly short of that purity and perfection pharisaical persons imagine
there is in them.

Gills


New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs
the motives.

On 7/11/2012 8:28 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 2:45 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

This smear by the Post has already generated a response in Wikipedia:

The Texas Republican Party expressed their opposition to the
teaching of certain HOTS by including the following item in their
2012 Party Platform [3]:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher
Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical
thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a
relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning)
which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining
parental authority."

However, the final wording of this item was evidently a 'mistake'
according to Republican Party of Texas Communications Director
Chris Elam who said, in an interview with talkingpointsmemo.com,
that the plank should not have included the phrase 'critical
thinking skills' and it was not the intent of the subcommittee to
indicate that the RPT was opposed to critical thinking skills".
When asked to clarify the meaning of the item he said, "I think the
intent is that the Republican Party is opposed to the values
clarification method that serves the purpose of challenging
students beliefs and undermine parental authority" [4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills


Whatever the truth may be you can't blame a rational person for thinking
that in Texas they are opposed to teaching children to think critically.

You're not a rational person if you believe that. The evidence doesn't
support the belief.

On 7/11/2012 8:32 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:04 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop




Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts
and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with
nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students.

Which is why the public schools should be dismantled.

They should have dismantled them

They never should have been put in place.

On 7/11/2012 8:41 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message ...

On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you, believe
us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts
and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with
nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the
truth
and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke

Here's a real deal example of how this works. An person I was
communicating
with on another newsgroup once went to seminary, IIRC he was
interested in
being a Priest or something like that. He learned from liberal Bible
scholars and came away not believing anything. In the discussion I
mentioned the book of Isaiah and he wanted me to research about the
book of
Isaiah, he wanted me to find out some "real facts" about Isaiah that
he had
learned by his critical thinking liberal professors.

But there was a complete FAIL of what he had learned from the liberal
false
teachers. What the liberals taught about the book of Isaiah, written
by 2
different authors many years apart with half of it much more recent, had
already been PROVEN WRONG by the finding of the nearly complete book of
Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The conclusion drawn by the "critical thinking" liberals was COMPLETELY
WRONG. Their "critical thinking" was wrong from the beginning, not just
after being proven wrong by the Dead Sea Scrolls. How many millions of
other libtarded "Critical Thinking" conclusions are also completely wrong
even though they may not have been proven wrong yet? Hint: their
"CRITICAL
THINKING" was WRONG from the beginning, not just after being proven
wrong.

So how com these "Critical Thinkers" want kids to question everything
taught
to them by their parents but want them to believe everything their
liberal
teachers tell them? Why doesn't every student have to prove that light
travels 186,000 miles per second? Because Liberals want to rewrite
history,
they need to get people to stop accepting true history so they can sell
their lies.

The bottom line, these "Critical Thinkers" try to teach kids to reject
truth
and accept liberal lies. Sorry you bought it.

RogerN


Here's the thing Roger.

**** off, you pompous condescending know-nothing. You don't know your
flabby doughy ass from your florid puffy face.

Not that I disagree with your description, George, but such language!
May I offer some alternatives to consider?
From the Bard himself...


He is deformed, crooked, old and sere,
Ill-faced, worse bodied, shapeless everywhere;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind;
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
The Comedy of Errors (4.2.22-5)

Thou whoreson, senseless villain!
The Comedy of Errors (4.4.24)

Dissembling harlot, thou art false in all!
The Comedy of Errors (4.4.100)

You abilities are too infant-like for doing much alone.
Coriolanus (2.1.36)

They lie deadly that tell you you have good faces .
Coriolanus (2.1.59)

You are not worth another word, else I'd call you knave.
All's Well that Ends Well (2.3.262)

I do desire we may be better strangers.
As You Like It (3.2.248)

The tartness of his face sours ripe grapes.
Coriolanus (5.4.18)

There is no more mercy in him than there is milk in a male tiger.
Coriolanus (5.4.30)

Away! Thou'rt poison to my blood.
Cymbeline (1.1.128)

O thou vile one!
Cymbeline (1.1.142)

You had measured how long a fool you were upon the ground.
Cymbeline (1.2.26)

They have a plentiful lack of wit.
Hamlet (2.2.198)

Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane,
Drink off this potion!
Hamlet (5.2.335-6)

Thou hast the most unsavoury similes.
1 Henry IV (1.2.75)

This sanguine coward, this bed-presser, this horseback-breaker, this
huge hill of flesh!
1 Henry IV (2.4.225-6)

'Sblood, you starveling, you elf-skin, you dried neat's tongue, you
bull's pizzle, you stock-fish! O for breath to utter what is like thee!
you tailor's-yard, you sheath, you bowcase; you vile standing-tuck!
1 Henry IV (2.4.227-9)

There’s no more faith in thee than in a stewed prune.
1 Henry IV (3.3.40)

Hang him, swaggering rascal!
2 Henry IV (2.4.66)

I scorn you, scurvy companion.
2 Henry IV (2.4.115)

Away, you mouldy rogue, away!
2 Henry IV (2.4.117)

Away, you cut-purse rascal! you filthy bung, away! By this wine, I'll
thrust my knife in your mouldy chaps, an you play the saucy cuttle with
me. Away, you bottle-ale rascal! you basket-hilt stale juggler, you!
2 Henry IV (2.4.120-22)

O braggart vile and damned furious wight!
Henry V (2.1.100)

Avaunt, you cullions!
Henry V (3.2.20)

Such antics do not amount to a man.
Henry V (3.2.28)

He is white-livered and red-faced.
Henry V (3.2.30)

They are hare-brain'd slaves.
1 Henry VI (1.2.38)

I had rather chop this hand off at a blow,
And with the other fling it at thy face.
3 Henry VI (5.1.51-2)

Thou mis-shapen dick!
3 Henry VI (5.5.35)

On 7/11/2012 9:59 PM, Richard wrote:
On 7/11/2012 10:24 PM, Hawke wrote:


Sorry but I can't allow RogerN's ignorance and religious nonsense to go
unanswered. Whenever I see things that are clearly wrong I have to set
people straight. You always think I'm wrong but I'll match my facts with
yours any time you want.

Hawke

Sorry guy.
I don't keep a special set of "facts" like you do.

I don't have a special set of facts. I go along with what is accepted as
fact by the experts and professionals. I don't rely on some people's
opinions as if they are facts though. Do you?



And maybe you didn't notice.
Count me among believers in regards to what you call
religious nonsense. It's right there on my web page.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/cross.htm


Let me look at it and then I'll tell you if I think it's religious
nonsense. By the way, I was raised in a religious home and learned what
most Christians do. But as an adult I educated myself on the "facts" and
found that most of what religion says is not factually true. Look at
Islam. Do you think it's full of facts? I don't, but I can assure you
that neither is Christianity.

Hawke

On 7/12/2012 10:42 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 9:59 PM, Richard wrote:
On 7/11/2012 10:24 PM, Hawke wrote:


Sorry but I can't allow RogerN's ignorance and religious nonsense to go
unanswered. Whenever I see things that are clearly wrong I have to set
people straight. You always think I'm wrong but I'll match my facts with
yours any time you want.

Hawke

Sorry guy.
I don't keep a special set of "facts" like you do.

I don't have a special set of facts.

Youdon't have *any* facts. What you have are primitive and juvenile
emotions.


And maybe you didn't notice.
Count me among believers in regards to what you call
religious nonsense. It's right there on my web page.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/cross.htm


Let me look at it and then I'll tell you if I think it's religious
nonsense. By the way, I was raised in a religious home and learned what
most Christians do. But as an adult I educated myself on the "facts"

No, you didn't.

On 7/12/2012 10:51 AM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/12/2012 10:42 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 9:59 PM, Richard wrote:
On 7/11/2012 10:24 PM, Hawke wrote:


Sorry but I can't allow RogerN's ignorance and religious nonsense to go
unanswered. Whenever I see things that are clearly wrong I have to set
people straight. You always think I'm wrong but I'll match my facts
with
yours any time you want.

Hawke

Sorry guy.
I don't keep a special set of "facts" like you do.

I don't have a special set of facts.

Youdon't have *any* facts. What you have are primitive and juvenile
emotions.

That's funny coming from you. Especially when it's your specialty to
simply ignore or snip out facts that show you are wrong. Your pretense
is that you don't get facts from me but the truth is you blow off every
fact I give you. I could tell you Washington was the first president and
you would still say I give no facts. Giving you facts is pointless, I'll
grant you that. They mean nothing to you.



And maybe you didn't notice.
Count me among believers in regards to what you call
religious nonsense. It's right there on my web page.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/cross.htm


Let me look at it and then I'll tell you if I think it's religious
nonsense. By the way, I was raised in a religious home and learned what
most Christians do. But as an adult I educated myself on the "facts"

No, you didn't.


Yeah I did. Got confirmed and everything. Now I know better so I am a
non believer. I'm sure you're a devout son of a bitch though. That would
show how irrational you are.

Hawke

On 7/11/2012 11:04 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:32 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:04 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop





Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE)
(mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the
purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts
and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with
nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students.

Which is why the public schools should be dismantled.

They should have dismantled them

They never should have been put in place.


Ask around and see how many people agree with that. As usual you espouse
a view that is anathema to nearly all Americans. Public education is
seen as a bedrock of American values. You oppose it. But then you are
the kind to oppose a glass of water to drink on a hot day. That's
because you're a tin foil hat kind of guy.

Hawke

On 7/12/2012 11:30 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/12/2012 10:51 AM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/12/2012 10:42 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 9:59 PM, Richard wrote:
On 7/11/2012 10:24 PM, Hawke wrote:


Sorry but I can't allow RogerN's ignorance and religious nonsense
to go
unanswered. Whenever I see things that are clearly wrong I have to set
people straight. You always think I'm wrong but I'll match my facts
with
yours any time you want.

Hawke

Sorry guy.
I don't keep a special set of "facts" like you do.

I don't have a special set of facts.

You don't have *any* facts. What you have are primitive and juvenile
emotions.

That's funny coming from you.

It's factual. I have frequently pointed out that you rely on juvenile
concepts like "fairness" that you cannot competently and coherently
define. You're like a kid - "fair" is whatever treatment you want for
yourself, "unfair" is treatment you don't want, such as being made to
eat your Brussels sprouts.



And maybe you didn't notice.
Count me among believers in regards to what you call
religious nonsense. It's right there on my web page.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/cross.htm


Let me look at it and then I'll tell you if I think it's religious
nonsense. By the way, I was raised in a religious home and learned what
most Christians do. But as an adult I educated myself on the "facts"

No, you didn't.


Yeah I did.

No, you didn't.

On 7/11/2012 11:05 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:41 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message ...

On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe
us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts
and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with
nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the
truth
and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke

Here's a real deal example of how this works. An person I was
communicating
with on another newsgroup once went to seminary, IIRC he was
interested in
being a Priest or something like that. He learned from liberal Bible
scholars and came away not believing anything. In the discussion I
mentioned the book of Isaiah and he wanted me to research about the
book of
Isaiah, he wanted me to find out some "real facts" about Isaiah that
he had
learned by his critical thinking liberal professors.

But there was a complete FAIL of what he had learned from the liberal
false
teachers. What the liberals taught about the book of Isaiah, written
by 2
different authors many years apart with half of it much more recent, had
already been PROVEN WRONG by the finding of the nearly complete book of
Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The conclusion drawn by the "critical thinking" liberals was COMPLETELY
WRONG. Their "critical thinking" was wrong from the beginning, not just
after being proven wrong by the Dead Sea Scrolls. How many millions of
other libtarded "Critical Thinking" conclusions are also completely
wrong
even though they may not have been proven wrong yet? Hint: their
"CRITICAL
THINKING" was WRONG from the beginning, not just after being proven
wrong.

So how com these "Critical Thinkers" want kids to question everything
taught
to them by their parents but want them to believe everything their
liberal
teachers tell them? Why doesn't every student have to prove that light
travels 186,000 miles per second? Because Liberals want to rewrite
history,
they need to get people to stop accepting true history so they can sell
their lies.

The bottom line, these "Critical Thinkers" try to teach kids to reject
truth
and accept liberal lies. Sorry you bought it.

RogerN


Here's the thing Roger.

**** off, you pompous condescending know-nothing. You don't know your
flabby doughy ass from your florid puffy face.


Man, you sure hate hearing the truth. It sure does rile you up, don't
it? You better stop reading my posts because your blood pressure might
not be able to handle it. Hearing opposing ideas really sets you off.
You better stick to only dealing with other nuts, uh, I mean
libertarians. Having people agree with you is what you need.
Disagreement seems to disagree with you.

Hawke

On 7/12/2012 11:34 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:04 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:32 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:04 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus3314" wrote in message
...

ROTFLMAO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html?tid=pm_local_pop






Or: http://goo.gl/PFCg6

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar
programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE)
(mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the
purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts
and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with
nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students.

Which is why the public schools should be dismantled.

They should have dismantled them

They never should have been put in place.


Ask around and see how many people agree with that.

As usual, you mistake majority sentiment with sound thinking, when in
fact they usually mean exactly the opposite. A majority of tens of
millions think McDonald's is good food, but it isn't.

There is no valid reason at all for government to be in the business of
operating schools. You idiot leftards don't even advocate that
government directly supply medical care, i.e., that government ought to
own and operate the hospitals and clinics and directly employ the
medical staff. Instead, leftards say that those things ought to be
privately provided, but paid for by government. So, why not the
schools? Why can't you ****ing morons ever be consistent? Get the
government *OUT* of the business of owning and operating schools and
employing the incompetent teachers, and instead let them give vouchers
to people to send their children to the private school of their choice.

On 7/12/2012 11:37 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:05 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:41 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 4:36 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message ...

On 7/10/2012 8:39 PM, RogerN wrote:
snip
I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe
us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts
and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with
nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students. They wash out the incorrect and irrational
things their uneducated parents taught them and replace them with the
truth
and with real facts. How dare they do that, right?

Hawke

Here's a real deal example of how this works. An person I was
communicating
with on another newsgroup once went to seminary, IIRC he was
interested in
being a Priest or something like that. He learned from liberal Bible
scholars and came away not believing anything. In the discussion I
mentioned the book of Isaiah and he wanted me to research about the
book of
Isaiah, he wanted me to find out some "real facts" about Isaiah that
he had
learned by his critical thinking liberal professors.

But there was a complete FAIL of what he had learned from the liberal
false
teachers. What the liberals taught about the book of Isaiah, written
by 2
different authors many years apart with half of it much more recent,
had
already been PROVEN WRONG by the finding of the nearly complete book of
Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The conclusion drawn by the "critical thinking" liberals was COMPLETELY
WRONG. Their "critical thinking" was wrong from the beginning, not
just
after being proven wrong by the Dead Sea Scrolls. How many millions of
other libtarded "Critical Thinking" conclusions are also completely
wrong
even though they may not have been proven wrong yet? Hint: their
"CRITICAL
THINKING" was WRONG from the beginning, not just after being proven
wrong.

So how com these "Critical Thinkers" want kids to question everything
taught
to them by their parents but want them to believe everything their
liberal
teachers tell them? Why doesn't every student have to prove that light
travels 186,000 miles per second? Because Liberals want to rewrite
history,
they need to get people to stop accepting true history so they can sell
their lies.

The bottom line, these "Critical Thinkers" try to teach kids to reject
truth
and accept liberal lies. Sorry you bought it.

RogerN


Here's the thing Roger.

**** off, you pompous condescending know-nothing. You don't know your
flabby doughy ass from your florid puffy face.


Man, you sure hate hearing the truth.

No, I love hearing the truth. What I hate is hearing your smarmy
juvenile bull**** lying. You're simply a liar.

On 7/11/2012 11:03 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:28 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 2:45 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

This smear by the Post has already generated a response in Wikipedia:

The Texas Republican Party expressed their opposition to the
teaching of certain HOTS by including the following item in their
2012 Party Platform [3]:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher
Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical
thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a
relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning)
which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining
parental authority."

However, the final wording of this item was evidently a 'mistake'
according to Republican Party of Texas Communications Director
Chris Elam who said, in an interview with talkingpointsmemo.com,
that the plank should not have included the phrase 'critical
thinking skills' and it was not the intent of the subcommittee to
indicate that the RPT was opposed to critical thinking skills".
When asked to clarify the meaning of the item he said, "I think the
intent is that the Republican Party is opposed to the values
clarification method that serves the purpose of challenging
students beliefs and undermine parental authority" [4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills


Whatever the truth may be you can't blame a rational person for thinking
that in Texas they are opposed to teaching children to think critically.

You're not a rational person if you believe that. The evidence doesn't
support the belief.


Most of the country sees Texas as a laughing stock. They are goofy. They
have a terrible record on the environment and on health care, and on
poor people. They suck. They do not act rationally. Now that I think of
it you should move there. An irrational thinker like you belongs in Texas.

Hawke

On 7/12/2012 11:39 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:03 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:28 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 2:45 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

This smear by the Post has already generated a response in Wikipedia:

The Texas Republican Party expressed their opposition to the
teaching of certain HOTS by including the following item in their
2012 Party Platform [3]:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher
Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical
thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a
relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (masterylearning)
which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining
parental authority."

However, the final wording of this item was evidently a 'mistake'
according to Republican Party of Texas Communications Director
Chris Elam who said, in an interview with talkingpointsmemo.com,
that the plank should not have included the phrase 'critical
thinking skills' and it was not the intent of the subcommittee to
indicate that the RPT was opposed to critical thinking skills".
When asked to clarify the meaning of the item he said, "I think
the intent is that the Republican Party is opposed to the values
clarification method that serves the purpose of challenging
students beliefs and undermine parental authority" [4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills


Whatever the truth may be you can't blame a rational person for thinking
that in Texas they are opposed to teaching children to think critically.

You're not a rational person if you believe that. The evidence doesn't
support the belief.


Most of the country sees Texas as a laughing stock.

Irrelevant. A rational person still *cannot* believe that Texas
Republicans oppose critical thinking ability. What they oppose is the
left-wing teachers' unions and "educrats" trying to sneak in
anti-western values under a fake name. Every right thinking person
opposes that.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:22:37 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 7/12/2012 11:15 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

It's one brilliant and insightful person's statement of universal truths.

You mean that you think that. But you do understand that these days Rand
is not thought of by most as you do. She's seen as kooky, far out, far
right, and old fashioned. Modern thinking is not what you get from her.
You get old ideas that don't fit well into a very much changed world. It
does appeal to a very small segment of society though that we call Tea
Party types and libertarians. The rest of us don't bother with her
tired, old, and discredited ideology.

Hawke

Her horse**** appeals to 14 year olds and older people who never grew
up intellectually. Bill Maher summarizes the mindset here.
http://samuel-warde.com/2012/06/bill...-being-a-dick/
Check the responses as well.

On 7/12/2012 11:46 AM, whoyakidding wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 11:22:37 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 7/12/2012 11:15 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

It's one brilliant and insightful person's statement of universal truths.

You mean that you think that. But you do understand that these days Rand
is not thought of by most as you do. She's seen as kooky, far out, far
right, and old fashioned. Modern thinking is not what you get from her.
You get old ideas that don't fit well into a very much changed world. It
does appeal to a very small segment of society though that we call Tea
Party types and libertarians. The rest of us don't bother with her
tired, old, and discredited ideology.

Hawke

Her horse**** appeals to 14 year olds

It doesn't. It appeals to inquisitive high school seniors and collegians.

On 7/12/2012 3:37 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Hawke wrote:


But it's just one person's point of view on those things. You have to
understand where Ayn Rand came from to know why she thought the things
she did. She was colored by her early exposure to a ruthless,
totalitarian government that made her anti government for the rest of
her life. It made her believe that individualism was far superior to ANY
kind of collective action. But that's not what the experience is for
people who have lived in the U.S. for a long time. We have an example of
the best government in the world. It has served our people well. Until
the last republican administration this country was the envy of the
world and we have always been a country that does big things by
collective action.

Fun fact:

Nope - urban legend.

Ayn Rand depended on Social Security

No.

"678.714.5764" wrote in message
news
On 7/12/2012 3:37 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Hawke wrote:


But it's just one person's point of view on those things. You have to
understand where Ayn Rand came from to know why she thought the things
she did. She was colored by her early exposure to a ruthless,
totalitarian government that made her anti government for the rest of
her life. It made her believe that individualism was far superior to ANY
kind of collective action. But that's not what the experience is for
people who have lived in the U.S. for a long time. We have an example of
the best government in the world. It has served our people well. Until
the last republican administration this country was the envy of the
world and we have always been a country that does big things by
collective action.

Fun fact:

Nope - urban legend.

Ayn Rand depended on Social Security

No.

Not an Urban legend.

This was published in the book "100 Voices: An Oral History of Ayn Rand" by
Scott McConnell, a generally favorable bio.

From one review:
"An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to the law
firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick, who had Ms. Rand as a client,
verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and
Medicare payments that Rand received under her married name of Ann O'Connor
(husband was Frank O'Connor).

Ms. Rand evidently did not want the checks delivered to her house. A bit
hypocritical, but her books were not bringing her an enormous income, and as
every senior knows medical bills are so expensive."

On 7/12/2012 5:51 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In ,
wrote:

That's because you have no sense of humanity. You see the poor and the
weak suffer and are not bothered by it. You are more offended when the
rich have something taken from them than if poor women are denied pap
smears and breast exams and wind up dying of cancer. It says a lot about
your values. They obviously are not what are called Christian values,
are they? In your book, wealth and privilege mean more than caring for
the least of us. The world is full of people like you. That is why it is
such a ****ty place. Things mean a lot more to you than people.

Hawke


Read "Atlas Shrugged" fool.

This is actually consistent with Hawke's point. Ayn Rand was as
anti-Christian as it gets. She despised Christianity and Christian
values of generosity and altruism.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...dont-mix_n.htm
http://online.worldmag.com/2011/06/1...-jesus-christ/
http://wepartypatriots.com/wp/2011/0...-christianity/



That didn't come across in the book.
I just finished it (second reading) last week.

On 7/12/2012 5:52 PM, Richard wrote:
On 7/12/2012 5:51 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In ,
wrote:

That's because you have no sense of humanity. You see the poor and the
weak suffer and are not bothered by it. You are more offended when the
rich have something taken from them than if poor women are denied pap
smears and breast exams and wind up dying of cancer. It says a lot
about
your values. They obviously are not what are called Christian values,
are they? In your book, wealth and privilege mean more than caring for
the least of us. The world is full of people like you. That is why
it is
such a ****ty place. Things mean a lot more to you than people.

Hawke


Read "Atlas Shrugged" fool.

This is actually consistent with Hawke's point. Ayn Rand was as
anti-Christian as it gets. She despised Christianity and Christian
values of generosity and altruism.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...dont-mix_n.htm

http://online.worldmag.com/2011/06/1...-jesus-christ/
http://wepartypatriots.com/wp/2011/0...-christianity/



That didn't come across in the book.
I just finished it (second reading) last week.

It didn't come across in the book because it's not there. I don't doubt
that Rand was anti-religion, perhaps even militantly so, but it's not to
be found in 'Atlas Shrugged'.

"Hawke" wrote in message ...

On 7/11/2012 2:45 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills

Whatever the truth may be you can't blame a rational person for thinking
that in Texas they are opposed to teaching children to think critically.
That sounds just like something they would do in Texas. They wouldn't teach
the kids to think but they would teach them scripture. Sounds like Texas to
me.

Hawke

The problem is what you/they are calling it, it's not thinking critically,
it's better described as "liberal fantasy insanity". So the subject should
really read "Texas Republicans are opposed to liberal fantasy insanity".
Other suitable names for what liberals consider "critical thinking" include
stupidity, stinking thinking, lies, distortion, spin, BS, etc......

Like I explained to you about the book of Isaiah, liberals using their
"critical thinking" decided about half of Isaiah was written by a different
author at a much later date. They figured the fulfilled prophecies in
Isaiah must have been written after the fact because they couldn't handle
the truth, so they choose to make up their lie and believe it. But then the
book of Isaiah from the Dead Sea Scrolls was dated before the time the
liberals said part of Isaiah was written. So it ends up the conservatives
that didn't fall for the so-called "critical thinking" were right, and the
liberals and their revision were found out to be wrong.

But for you "critical thinkers": How is it that "critical thinkers" think
they know more about something that happened in history than the first hand
eye witnesses that were there? You claim the stories handed down through
the ages are wrong, how did those stories get believed by the people of the
day? In the future you will be right, many things that are taught today in
the liberal education system will be known to be wrong, if fact people are
already writing about the lies:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Lies-A...ed+in+sc hool

http://www.amazon.com/The-Patriots-H...ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/Conservative-C...ref=pd_sim_b_4

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Events-T...ref=pd_sim_b_6

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Histor...ref=pd_sim_b_7

http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Record...ref=pd_sim_b_8


RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
"Hawke" wrote in message ...

On 7/11/2012 2:45 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills

Whatever the truth may be you can't blame a rational person for thinking
that in Texas they are opposed to teaching children to think critically.
That sounds just like something they would do in Texas. They wouldn't
teach the kids to think but they would teach them scripture. Sounds like
Texas to me.

Hawke

The problem is what you/they are calling it, it's not thinking critically,
it's better described as "liberal fantasy insanity". So the subject
should really read "Texas Republicans are opposed to liberal fantasy
insanity". Other suitable names for what liberals consider "critical
thinking" include stupidity, stinking thinking, lies, distortion, spin,
BS, etc......

Like I explained to you about the book of Isaiah, liberals using their
"critical thinking" decided about half of Isaiah was written by a
different author at a much later date. They figured the fulfilled
prophecies in Isaiah must have been written after the fact because they
couldn't handle the truth, so they choose to make up their lie and believe
it. But then the book of Isaiah from the Dead Sea Scrolls was dated
before the time the liberals said part of Isaiah was written. So it ends
up the conservatives that didn't fall for the so-called "critical
thinking" were right, and the liberals and their revision were found out
to be wrong.

But for you "critical thinkers": How is it that "critical thinkers" think
they know more about something that happened in history than the first
hand eye witnesses that were there? You claim the stories handed down
through the ages are wrong, how did those stories get believed by the
people of the day? In the future you will be right, many things that are
taught today in the liberal education system will be known to be wrong, if
fact people are already writing about the lies:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Lies-A...ed+in+sc hool

http://www.amazon.com/The-Patriots-H...ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/Conservative-C...ref=pd_sim_b_4

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Events-T...ref=pd_sim_b_6

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Histor...ref=pd_sim_b_7

http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Record...ref=pd_sim_b_8


RogerN



So, assuming you are correct in your summary, does pushing back the date of
authorship completely disprove the theory that the book was written by
several people at different times? Or is more likely that the original
estimate of when various sections were written was incorrect?

I am not a biblical scholar and I do not ever intend to be one. But I just
googled this issue and it seems many (if not most) biblical scholars believe
it was written by many people at different times. They must have their
reasons. A critical thinker who was interested in the subject would evaluate
those reasons trying to see if they are valid or flawed, and whether they
are stronger or weaker than the evidence pointing in the opposite direction.
Your diatribe against those scholars makes me think that is not the approach
you took. I suspect you instead latch onto one shred of evidence that points
to what you want to believe. One of your lines above is very telling. You
say, "How is it that "critical thinkers" think they know more about
something that happened in history than the first hand eye witnesses that
were there?" That argument assumes the conclusion as its premise.
Hopefully, that is the kind of fallacy they would teach you to watch for in
a class on logic or critical thinking.

On 7/12/2012 11:38 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

``We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS)
(values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar
programs
that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE)
(mastery
learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the
purpose of
challenging the students fixed beliefs and undermining parental
authority.''

Then, they say

`We believe that because the Permanent School Fund is not paid by
taxpayers that the principle balance should be safeguarded''

I think that they meant "principal balance".

I'm not sure what they were teaching about (HOTS) but some of the
teachings,
in a nutshell, are "don't believe what your parents taught you,
believe us
instead", then they get students to stop believing established facts
and
push revisionist history and other lies. They simply brainwash the
sense
out of students and fill (indoctrinate, not educate) them with
nonsense.

RogerN


They do brainwash students.

Which is why the public schools should be dismantled.

They should have dismantled them

They never should have been put in place.


Ask around and see how many people agree with that.

As usual, you mistake majority sentiment with sound thinking, when in
fact they usually mean exactly the opposite. A majority of tens of
millions think McDonald's is good food, but it isn't.

There is no valid reason at all for government to be in the business of
operating schools. You idiot leftards don't even advocate that
government directly supply medical care, i.e., that government ought to
own and operate the hospitals and clinics and directly employ the
medical staff. Instead, leftards say that those things ought to be
privately provided, but paid for by government. So, why not the
schools? Why can't you ****ing morons ever be consistent? Get the
government *OUT* of the business of owning and operating schools and
employing the incompetent teachers, and instead let them give vouchers
to people to send their children to the private school of their choice.


If you weren't so ideologically wrapped up you would know why schools
are treated differently from health care. In the first place public
schools have been one of the first and most important services the
government provided. Aside from the post office schools were one of the
first things the government did in this country. By the way, that was
because that is what the public wanted. The government did not force
public education on the people. The people wanted it. We had your kind
of system when Jefferson and Adams got their education. It was
completely private and only the few got any. We wanted everyone to be
educated and the free market was not going to provide it for us.

It was determined long ago that a public that was literate would be a
big improvement over the mass illiteracy we had in the early 1800s. The
market was not providing a literate public so the government got
involved and started public schools. At the time just about everyone
thought this was a proper role of the government and was a great benefit
to the nation and the public. The majority of Americans still think that
and unlike McDonald's, this is a democratic country where what the
majority wants means something. So if the majority of Americans want
public education then that is what they get.

Health care is nothing like education. It's apples and oranges. So it's
natural to expect they won't be treated the same. Public education has
provided one of the most literate and well educated in the history of
the world. It worked. Our private health care system was failing as far
back as the 1960s. It wasn't working then and it is still failing. Every
year more people are priced out of the system. Without a national plan
to distribute health care to everyone we will continue to trail the rest
of the world.

Contrary to what ideologues believe, government does some things well
and some better than the free market. Health care delivery is one of
them. We already have the best doctors, nurses, hospitals, and medical
education system in the world. It is only logical that they continue
providing the medical care. The only logical thing is for the government
to deal with the payments part of the system. The rest of the world
knows this and so do most educated people. Only the ignorant don't know
that. That means you.

Hawke

On 7/12/2012 11:41 AM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/12/2012 11:39 AM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 11:03 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/11/2012 8:28 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 7/11/2012 2:45 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

This smear by the Post has already generated a response in Wikipedia:

The Texas Republican Party expressed their opposition to the
teaching of certain HOTS by including the following item in their
2012 Party Platform [3]:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of
Higher
Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification),
critical
thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a
relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE)
(masterylearning)
which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of
challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining
parental authority."

However, the final wording of this item was evidently a 'mistake'
according to Republican Party of Texas Communications Director
Chris Elam who said, in an interview with talkingpointsmemo.com,
that the plank should not have included the phrase 'critical
thinking skills' and it was not the intent of the subcommittee to
indicate that the RPT was opposed to critical thinking skills".
When asked to clarify the meaning of the item he said, "I think
the intent is that the Republican Party is opposed to the values
clarification method that serves the purpose of challenging
students beliefs and undermine parental authority" [4].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_...hinking_skills


Whatever the truth may be you can't blame a rational person for
thinking
that in Texas they are opposed to teaching children to think
critically.

You're not a rational person if you believe that. The evidence doesn't
support the belief.


Most of the country sees Texas as a laughing stock.

Irrelevant. A rational person still *cannot* believe that Texas
Republicans oppose critical thinking ability. What they oppose is the
left-wing teachers' unions and "educrats" trying to sneak in
anti-western values under a fake name. Every right thinking person
opposes that.


I'm sorry you don't know it, but every time someone tries to teach
traditional ways of thinking they are rejecting critical thinking. When
you teach children to follow customs, tradition, and religious tenets,
then you are not teaching them to think critically. You are teaching
them to accept what is passed on to them and to not question it. That is
done in Texas all over the place just like it's done in Madrassas in the
Middle East. They teach children to accept and believe not to think
critically. That is what religious people do. They do this all over
Texas. So don't bull**** us, okay. People in Texas that have positions
in education teach religion over critical thinking all the time. If you
don't believe that then you've never been to Texas.

Hawke

On 7/12/2012 11:36 PM, Richard wrote:
On 7/12/2012 1:41 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

Irrelevant. A rational person still *cannot* believe that Texas
Republicans oppose critical thinking ability. What they oppose is the
left-wing teachers' unions and "educrats" trying to sneak in
anti-western values under a fake name. Every right thinking person
opposes that.


That's not what he means, George.

By "critical thinking" he means he thinks he can be critical of what
YOU think...

At least that's what his actions say.


In religious settings they teach the children the doctrine of the
church, not how to think critically or to question what they are being
taught. Do you dispute that? I was raised in a Christian home and went
to Sunday school and was confirmed. They didn't teach us to question
what they were telling us. They told us to believe what they told us was
the word of god and was infallibly true. My friends in Catholic schools
were learning the same things there.

Critical thinking is just about as far away from the way they teach in
religious setting as you can get. It's no surprise that in places that
are dominated by very religious people that they teach their students to
accept religious dogma. They don't teach them to question it or to think
critically. If you can prove that is not true I'd like to see you try.

Hawke