Thanks to all who answered. After checking (and choking) on the prices
for anything that looked like quality, I'm gonna go with the several
suggestions about a cross-handled spinner. They worked for me in my
day, and for my dad even earlier. My son's an engineer, and likes the
shiny techy stuff. I guess he should get a chrome plated wrench for
the shiny part.

For the techy part, I've decided to get him a Bosch Li-ion pistol grip
screwdriver, since that's another thing he has been wanting (and I can
afford that - barely).


On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:06:49 -0400, Joe wrote:

My son has been wanting a battery powered impact wrench (hence the
subject line). He'd prefer one with Li-ion battery pack - this is for
removing lug nuts from his cars, as well as other things.

He has a birthday coming up this weekend, and I'd like to get him one.
Anyone have any specific recommendations - besides to just get a good
pneumatic model (I've tried that route, but he wants portability, as
he does dirt-biking in the wilds of wherever)? I need a heads-up
pretty quick, so I can order it from Amazon, or whoever.

Thanks

On Jun 18, 6:52*pm, Joe wrote:
Thanks to all who answered. After checking (and choking) on the prices
for anything that looked like quality, I'm gonna go with the several
suggestions about a cross-handled spinner. They worked for me in my
day, and for my dad even earlier. My son's an engineer, and likes the
shiny techy stuff. I guess he should get a chrome plated wrench for
the shiny part.

For the techy part, I've decided to get him a Bosch Li-ion pistol grip
screwdriver, since that's another thing he has been wanting (and I can
afford that - barely).







On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:06:49 -0400, Joe wrote:
My son has been wanting a battery powered impact wrench (hence the
subject line). He'd prefer one with Li-ion battery pack - this is for
removing lug nuts from his cars, as well as other things.

He has a birthday coming up this weekend, and I'd like to get him one.
Anyone have any specific recommendations - besides to just get a good
pneumatic model (I've tried that route, but he wants portability, as
he does dirt-biking in the wilds of wherever)? I need a heads-up
pretty quick, so I can order it from Amazon, or whoever.

Thanks


I have a couple of Kawasaki units, one larger than the other. Both
work well. The larger one is fine for changing tires. Kawasaki tools
are not quite as pricey as some of the brands mentioned above. I would
also look at Craftsman, which are also in the $100 range. While not
quite as good as the top-tier Snap-Ons etc, they are more than
adequate for a DIYer.
If you really want some real-world opinions, visit your local
autocross event next Sunday. Go around 9:00 and you will see most
every competitor using one of these. Ask them for opinions on what
they are using.

In article ,
Joe wrote:

My son's an engineer, and likes the
shiny techy stuff.

Ah - enginerdus immaturus. With luck he'll grow out of that, if he
analyzes where it gets him as an enginerdus should.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Take a side trip to Home Depot or Lowe's and look at the
labels for air tools it takes a lot of volume!

A scuba tank doesn't have the volume you need unless it is
very high pressure - and that isn't worth it.

It would be overkill for air nail guns - low volume lowish pressure.

Martin

On 6/20/2012 9:30 PM, David Lesher wrote:
I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?

On 6/20/2012 7:30 PM, David Lesher wrote:
I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?



3,000 psi air into an impact wrench will cause one heck of an impact.

Martin Eastburn wrote:
Take a side trip to Home Depot or Lowe's and look at the
labels for air tools it takes a lot of volume!

A scuba tank doesn't have the volume you need unless it is
very high pressure - and that isn't worth it.

It would be overkill for air nail guns - low volume lowish pressure.

Martin

On 6/20/2012 9:30 PM, David Lesher wrote:
I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?




Well it works just fine with the air tools we use in the FD. We have an
air hammer, a body saw, couple of air/hyd jacks.
I have used it with an impact wrench and a cut off tool. No real problems.

With one of out tool bottles (2215 aluminum ISI 30 minute bottle) you
can run the cut off tool or wrench for around 10 minutes but then the
pressure drops off real fast. For us this isn't a problem as we have
spare bottles and a cascade fill station.

--
Steve W.

Bill wrote:
On 6/20/2012 7:30 PM, David Lesher wrote:
I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?



3,000 psi air into an impact wrench will cause one heck of an impact.

Take a look at the guns NASCAR uses. They run them off nitrogen bottles
at 250 psi.

--
Steve W.

In article , says...

On 6/20/2012 7:30 PM, David Lesher wrote:
I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?



3,000 psi air into an impact wrench will cause one heck of an impact.

3000 psi air into your lungs wouldn't do much good either.

Way back in 1681 something called a "pressure regulator" was invented.
You might want to google that term.

In article ,
David Lesher wrote:

I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?

A: Cost - ask your local scuba shop. Because what it costs elsewhere
does not matter...It will be the cleanest, driest air you've ever run
through an air tool - but the cost will reflect that, to an extent.

B: As with any high pressure tank, a lot but you'll also lose a lot
of it making a nice cold regulator/tool (see also "why compressed air
cars are thermodynamically stupid.") Never forget that a high-pressure
compressed air tank is a missile waiting for the valve to be broken off,
and can punch right through concrete walls.

Tanks vary. Oddly enough, fill costs rarely do, so get a big one (unless
you find that fill costs vary locally - check locally...)

Sizes vary. In the US, they are typically rated by number of cubic feet
(held, compressed), while in europe they are often (same tanks) listed
by tank volume (not amount of compressed air held - but you can figure
that from volume and rated pressure; in bars, there, of course.)

The most common tank in the biz, which you have to be careful not to get
one of the elderly ones made with bad alloys, is a 77 cubic foot (STP)
mislabeled "aluminum 80" in commerce. Typically 3000-3300PSI.

Low-pressure steels have a common size of 72, another common size of 95,
and run about 2250 PSI.

High pressure steels use different valve (DIN - it's better than the
standard "yoke" at high pressures) and have a typical range from 80-120
cubic feet at 3500 PSI. Your local shop may or may not love or hate them
and may or may not charge more to fill them. Check first. Fire
departments (SCBA, no U) often use a composite tank rated up to 4500
PSI, but you don't want to take those underwater.

You'll need a regulator. All you need is the first stage, which knocks
the tank pressure down to something like 140 PSI, typically. This gets
moderately complicated since scuba regulators are life support equipment
and getting parts/service for one you'd like to adjust down to 90PSI and
not breathe through may be hard or easy, depending on your local
support. Go ask. You might get a deal on an old one nobody wants to bet
their life on; Or not.

C: When figuring useful capacity, figure that most regulators don't work
all that well below about 300PSI tank pressure, so consider that
fraction of the faceplate capacity lost - what the fraction is depends
on the tank starting pressure. So a low-pressure steel 95 might give 82
cubic feet usefully, and a high-pressure steel 120 might give 109 cubic
feet usefully. Maximum draw-off rate (CFM) is going to be limited, as
well (a tank simply opened with no regulator takes quite a number of
noisy minutes to drain, and regulators will only slow that down.)

Many fill stations will require a dive certification card to fill tanks
- those catering to the paintball crowd may not. Aside from the normal
DOT hydro test (often cheaper if not done through a scuba shop) every 5
years, you will also need a one-year visual inspection sticker (scuba
shop only) to get a fill at most shops. For a while, the suspect
aluminum 80s were also getting an extra charge for magna-fluxing - I
think at this point most shops simply won't inspect or fill them,
period. Fragmentation bombs suck. Beware of what you buy at a yard sale,
or go read enough to be able to spot a bad one (not "is it cracked?" but
"is it made with the bad alloy that can crack?") before you shop.

As such, for the impact wrench, I'll stick with my recommendation for
hammer-driven in most cases where a compressor is out of reach.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

I don't have stats, but my old fire department used to have a regulator. So
they could run air tools from a SCBA fireman's air bottle.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"David Lesher" wrote in message
...

I've wondered about a SCUBA tank, a regulator, and the usual
impact tools. But I've only wondered...not done any math so far.

a) What's it cost to refill such a tank?

b) What kind of potential energy does such a tank have? {i.e. volume,
pressure?}

c) Leading to: how long can you bang away on a bolt with a 0.5"
impact wrench? Run a air saw?


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Ecnerwal writes:

A: Cost - ask your local scuba shop. Because what it costs elsewhere

B: As with any high pressure tank, a lot but you'll also lose a lot

You'll need a regulator. All you need is the first stage, which knocks

C: When figuring useful capacity, figure that most regulators don't work

Many fill stations will require a dive certification card to fill tanks
- those catering to the paintball crowd may not.

As such, for the impact wrench, I'll stick with my recommendation for
hammer-driven in most cases where a compressor is out of reach.

Thanks to you & Mr. Young for useful responses.

Ideal would be a large steel tank unwanted by divers but useful
in this case. My specific goal would be for a boneyard cart; able
to power either an impact wrench or saw.

The regulator needed is a big issue; even if breathing-type ones were
around; would they have enough CFM possible?

Having used air, electric & hammer-powered tools, I gotta say the hammer
one is useful only when no other can be had, i.e. side of Rt 66.




--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Ecnerwal writes:

Never forget that a high-pressure compressed air tank is a
missile waiting for the valve to be broken off, and can punch
right through concrete walls.

You got that right....therein is a tale...I've told this before
elsewhere.....

{as told to me...when I arrived at the Lab..}

There exists {or did..} at NASA-LeRC, a building called the Prop
House. Sure it has some official name, Engine Power Research
Building maybe, but don't ever bother calling it that.

It was built before/during WWII to test engines (and props), for
things like P-51's and P-47's. Since that much umph can make big
messes, it had VERY sturdy walls and doors, vault-type. That way,
when Things Went Wrong, not everyone suffered.

As time went on, there were not many 2000 HP prop engines for
NACA^H^H NASA to test, so other work moved in.

One sunny day, Plant Protection decided it was fire drill time. Now,
in grade school, they pull the alarm, and time your exit. PP was
.....more dedicated.... They showed up in plain clothes, and threw
a few smoke grenades down the hall, and just waited.

So the erstwhile researcher was slaving away in his test
cell when the Evac Alarm went off. You do not ever ignore an
Evac Alarm -- even if you wanted to, you'd soon be deaf; and
fired. OSHA must have turned them down by now, but *^%*^& were
they loud!!

So, being smarter than the average PhD, our hero goes to the
door, feels it carefully [not hot], undogs it and cracks it.
Smoke POURS in. He slams the door, redogs it and goes to the
phone. He dials "17" {the emergency number on the antique
PAX...} only to discover... they can't hear him and he can't
hear them...that damned horn, you see, is mounted near the
phone.

The problem is, there's no other way out. The outside wall was
glass block, solid. He bangs on it with a hammer, no joy.

But the smoke is creeping in under the door. So he takes a
K bottle of CO2 or N2 and sets in on the counter, aimed it at
the block. He figures he'll shear off the valve with a hatchet,
the tank will punch its way out through the block, and he
escapes.

BUT.. he is no fool. He knows that he may well go deaf from the
noise of the 3000+psi gas escaping, and the cylinder can go
any way IT wants... so he delays, and attacks the glass block
with the hammer and screwdriver, as the smoke keeps coming.

He finally manages to punch a small hole through...

The rest of the building staff is standing across the road
waiting for the building to clear of smoke when they see
an arm waving....

When PP entered the cell in Scott Air Packs and saw the cylinder
and the hammer, and listened to what he'd planned.....errr.

Thereafter, PP showed up and pulled the alarm, no more smoke
grenades.

The End.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

In article ,
David Lesher wrote:

My specific goal would be for a boneyard cart; able
to power either an impact wrench or saw.

I suspect that a small gasoline/propane motor and compressor will do you
better service for less money. Pick something annoying like a hopped up
chainsaw engine (2-stroke) to get the weight down if that's an issue.
And/or dual-purpose the motor to give the cart drive power.

The regulator needed is a big issue; even if breathing-type ones were
around; would they have enough CFM possible?

Hard to be sure, but I suppose you could hook a different regulator to
the appropriate tank connection. Can't change the tank connection too
much and still get a fill at the usual fill stations. If you got your
own high pressure compressor you could build to suit, but that is a
large chunk of change to play with.

How many CFM you need for a particular tool is basically going to set a
lower limit on how far you can draw down the tank and still have it flow
adequately. The FD response indicates hope for 10 minutes or so of use,
at least with their tools. For intermittent use you could also futz
around with feeding a 150PSI tank from the high pressure regulator, and
feeding your tool 90PSI (or whatever) from that, with more weight to
drag and increased complexity/expense.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

David Lesher wrote:
Ecnerwal writes:

A: Cost - ask your local scuba shop. Because what it costs elsewhere

B: As with any high pressure tank, a lot but you'll also lose a lot

You'll need a regulator. All you need is the first stage, which knocks

C: When figuring useful capacity, figure that most regulators don't work

Many fill stations will require a dive certification card to fill tanks
- those catering to the paintball crowd may not.

As such, for the impact wrench, I'll stick with my recommendation for
hammer-driven in most cases where a compressor is out of reach.

Thanks to you & Mr. Young for useful responses.

Ideal would be a large steel tank unwanted by divers but useful
in this case. My specific goal would be for a boneyard cart; able
to power either an impact wrench or saw.

The regulator needed is a big issue; even if breathing-type ones were
around; would they have enough CFM possible?

Having used air, electric & hammer-powered tools, I gotta say the hammer
one is useful only when no other can be had, i.e. side of Rt 66.





Shame you were not clos by. I just scrapped out 50 SCBA bottles. Some
were brand new aluminum 2215s and I had regulators that fit them...

Do still have a couple steel Survive air tanks on hand (they make nice
bells when you cut the bottom out)

--
Steve W.

Ecnerwal writes:


I suspect that a small gasoline/propane motor and compressor will do you
better service for less money. Pick something annoying like a hopped up
chainsaw engine (2-stroke) to get the weight down if that's an issue.
And/or dual-purpose the motor to give the cart drive power.

Not allowed in the yard, alas.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433