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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Working with Silver
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? |
#2
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Working with Silver
Tom Gardner wrote: I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? I thought they got rid of all the Werewolves in Cleveland a couple years ago. Except for that cross dressing one who ran for office in West Cleveland, that is. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#3
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Working with Silver
Tom Gardner wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? http://www.hurog.com/books/silver/silverbullet6.shtml Looks like an oversized steel mold and some plaster would do the trick. OR do it the easy way and cast small solid sections and turn them on a lathe. Would likely result in a better round and truer weight and size. I have turned solid copper bullets and once you have a pattern to grind a tool from it works well. I used a plane blade and ground it to the profile needed, then rough turned and finished with the custom blade. -- Steve W. |
#4
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Working with Silver
Tom Gardner wrote: I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour. Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. Best Regards Tom. -- http://fija.org/ |
#5
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Working with Silver
"azotic" wrote in message ... Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. "lighter" -- Jeff R. |
#6
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Working with Silver
"Jeff R." wrote in message u... "azotic" wrote in message ... Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. "lighter" -- Jeff R. Right you are, senior moment. Best Regards Tom. -- http://fija.org/ |
#7
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Working with Silver
"azotic" wrote in message ... "Jeff R." wrote in message u... "azotic" wrote in message ... Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. "lighter" -- Jeff R. Right you are, senior moment. Best Regards Tom. ....more of those every day, I'm finding... :-| -- Jeff R. |
#8
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Working with Silver
....
Right you are, senior moment. Best Regards Tom. ...more of those every day, I'm finding... I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will get worse! Karl |
#9
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Working with Silver
You can't cast it directly into alum molds, the melting point of silver is
higher than that of aluminum. The wax has a lot of shrinkage. Even with professional equipment, where the wax is injected under pressure, you will still expect 5-7% shrinkage in the final metal product. So casting wax into standard bullet molds will result in a undersized bullet. Turn machinable wax on the lathe to about 47 1/2 cal bullets and cast that. 30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy. That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead. If you were set up as a production caster, that might be a wholesale rate for the casting alone, sans the monkeying around with the patterns. Paul K. Dickman "Tom Gardner" mars@tacks wrote in message ... I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? |
#10
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Working with Silver
Paul K. Dickman wrote:
... 30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy. That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead. .... You're forgetting the "fun" part. Also the part about a challenge and probably the acquiring a new skill. And reading between the lines, I get the feeling that there's a favor-for-a-friend element. Bob |
#11
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Working with Silver
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:50:10 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote: Paul K. Dickman wrote: ... 30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy. That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead. ... You're forgetting the "fun" part. Also the part about a challenge and probably the acquiring a new skill. And reading between the lines, I get the feeling that there's a favor-for-a-friend element. Bob I'll bet Tom is at the point in his life, like myself, where money is no longer the prime motivator. I only do the stuff I want to do. if I don't want to do it, there's not enough money in the world. If i do, a few bucks over cost is fine. Karl |
#12
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Working with Silver
On Oct 1, 8:07*pm, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. *I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. *So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. *I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? *I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. *I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. * Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. *Any better ideas? *I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. *I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. *I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. *I wonder which I should use? *I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? Do you have a vac pump? You could cast while pulling a vac from the bottom. I used to do a lot of casting years ago. Still have both my centrifugal and vac casting units but have done anything with them in quite some time |
#13
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Working with Silver
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:31:08 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote: ... Right you are, senior moment. Best Regards Tom. ...more of those every day, I'm finding... I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will get worse! Karl I'd just forget about what he said if I were you. |
#14
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Working with Silver
On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote:
// Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour. Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. Best Regards Tom. Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead, especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm. |
#15
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Working with Silver
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:28:34 -0400, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote: // Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour. Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. Best Regards Tom. Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead, especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm. Lube? Use pig fat to make them more deadly and scary to things other than werewolves. wink -- Worry is a misuse of imagination. -- Dan Zadra |
#16
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Working with Silver
"Tom Gardner" mars@tacks wrote in message
... On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote: // Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour. Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. Best Regards Tom. Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead, especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm. It's only about 8% lighter than pure lead. Less depending on the alloys on the lead Paul K. Dickman |
#17
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Working with Silver
On 10/1/2011 11:02 PM, Steve W. wrote:
http://www.hurog.com/books/silver/silverbullet6.shtml Looks like an oversized steel mold and some plaster would do the trick. OR do it the easy way and cast small solid sections and turn them on a lathe. Would likely result in a better round and truer weight and size. I have turned solid copper bullets and once you have a pattern to grind a tool from it works well. I used a plane blade and ground it to the profile needed, then rough turned and finished with the custom blade. Yep. I'm gonna' turn them! |
#18
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Working with Silver
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:50:10 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote: Paul K. Dickman wrote: ... 30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy. That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead. ... You're forgetting the "fun" part. Also the part about a challenge and probably the acquiring a new skill. And reading between the lines, I get the feeling that there's a favor-for-a-friend element. Bob Using wax in your lead mould should not require any mold release just warm the mould a wee bit and they should slide tight out. Put a knotted thread in the end of the pour and you have something to help pull it out - easy enough to remove before using the "plug" |
#19
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Working with Silver
On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 21:07:35 -0400, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? Nobody's brought up that if you are making solid rounds you MUST make a blended alloy of the silver to make it a lot softer, got to get it down in the hardness neighborhood of the regular FMJ Lead bullet - that means No Fine, Sterling or Coin Silver hard alloys. The bullets have to be able to conform to the barrel rifling as they make their way into the barrel, or the slug will hang in the forming cone and you'll blow up the gun barrel (or blow up the cylinder, or spit the bolt out the back in their face, or something else equally as catastrophic) if somebody actually tries to fire these rounds. And no matter how many liability releases you get signed by the recipient, he can't control who grabs the rounds and tries to actually run them through a live weapon - after all the shouting, it's all on you if something goes seriously wrong... Not to mention that if you end up with an alloy that has some lead, tin, cadmium, etc. in it to soften up the silver (think Pewter alloys...) that will stretch the silver, too. A nice Hollowpoint that breaks up on impact should spread enough high silver content fragments around the impact area to neutralize any werewolves you might happen across. Lost Wax investment casting is probably the only way to go - way too much trouble to make a permanent casting mold for a one-off. Save the sprues and trimmings, and make a few single molds to use up the last few bits. -- Bruce -- PS: I'm Baaaaaaack. ;-P Might regret it later, but looks like the Asylum's still in full swing and the Inmates are still in charge... |
#20
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Working with Silver
On Sunday, October 2, 2011 9:28:34 AM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote: // Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead, especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm. It's necessary to use non-pure silver if you want to cast it; otherwise the stuff spits. Sterling is usually (7.5 percent?) copper added to the silver, and that's enough to stop spitting (something to do with dissolved oxygen, I hear). The same jewelry-supply places that sell silver shot, will have a line of appropriate waxes and ceramic moldmaking items. Your dentist probably knows a local shop that casts precious metals, already, and you might save time by getting them to do the hot parts. |
#21
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Working with Silver
I'd use sterling as it is likely a prize for someone.
A fine one would turn black faster won't it and be more expensive. You know best - isn't sterling stronger ? less denting if a key chain or such. Sound neat idea. Martin On 10/1/2011 8:07 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? |
#22
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Working with Silver
Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote: // Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour. Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. Best Regards Tom. Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead, especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm. How does the hardness compare with a copper jacket? -- Paul Hovnanian ------------------------------------------------------------------ Telemark: If it was easy, they'd call it snowboarding. |
#23
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Working with Silver
On 2011-10-02, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it? Probably not -- but it may make a difference to the rifling in the weapon. I believe that fine is softer than Sterling (and, of course, more expensive). Out of curiosity -- for .45 ACP or for the Colt single action revolver? The extra grip in the barrel might make a difference in the cycling of a model 1911. Quite a few shots may be needed to tune the load to the weight of the bullet and the different friction characteristics in the barrel. Is the weight going to match that of one of the commercially available lead bullets? With or without jacketing? And are you sure it isn't for someone to play Lone Ranger instead of protection from supernatural critters? Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#24
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Working with Silver
Tom Gardner mars@tacks on Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:28:34 -0400 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote: // Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour. Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile. Best Regards Tom. Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead, especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm. I've heard of using some kind of sabot, because silver being harder than lead, it doesn't engaged the lands as well. -- pyotr Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers does it take to change a lightbulb. |
#25
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Working with Silver
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message ... Tom Gardner wrote: ... Are these for display or use? Will the customer accept silver plating? jsw |
#26
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Working with Silver
On 10/2/2011 3:31 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will get worse! My dad says his memory is improving with age. Why, it's getting so good, he remembers things that never even happened! Jon |
#27
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Working with Silver
On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:11:36 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote: On 10/2/2011 3:31 AM, Karl Townsend wrote: I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will get worse! My dad says his memory is improving with age. Why, it's getting so good, he remembers things that never even happened! The older I get, the better I was. -- Worry is a misuse of imagination. -- Dan Zadra |
#28
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Working with Silver
Martin Eastburn wrote:
I'd use sterling as it is likely a prize for someone. A fine one would turn black faster won't it and be more expensive. Other way around. Sterling Tarnishes a whole lot more than fine, fine hardly tarnishes at all. FIn is usually softer, as cast, but both work harden a LOT. jk |
#29
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Working with Silver
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:51:20 -0700, jk wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote: I'd use sterling as it is likely a prize for someone. A fine one would turn black faster won't it and be more expensive. Other way around. Sterling Tarnishes a whole lot more than fine, fine hardly tarnishes at all. FIn is usually softer, as cast, but both work harden a LOT. I wonder if it would still work on vampires^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwerewolves if you coated the silver bullets with EverBrite? -- We are always the same age inside. -- Gertrude Stein |
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