Working with Silver
 

I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's
worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?

Working with Silver
 

Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's
worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?


I thought they got rid of all the Werewolves in Cleveland a couple
years ago. Except for that cross dressing one who ran for office in
West Cleveland, that is.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Working with Silver
 

Tom Gardner wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's
worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?


http://www.hurog.com/books/silver/silverbullet6.shtml

Looks like an oversized steel mold and some plaster would do the trick.

OR do it the easy way and cast small solid sections and turn them on a
lathe. Would likely result in a better round and truer weight and size.
I have turned solid copper bullets and once you have a pattern to grind
a tool from it works well. I used a plane blade and ground it to the
profile needed, then rough turned and finished with the custom blade.

--
Steve W.

Working with Silver
 

Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's
worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?


Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite
mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour.
Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.

Best Regards
Tom.

--
http://fija.org/

Working with Silver
 

"azotic" wrote in message ...

Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.



"lighter"

--
Jeff R.

Working with Silver
 

"Jeff R." wrote in message
u...

"azotic" wrote in message
...

Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.



"lighter"

--
Jeff R.

Right you are, senior moment.

Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/

Working with Silver
 

"azotic" wrote in message ...


"Jeff R." wrote in message
u...

"azotic" wrote in message
...

Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.



"lighter"

--
Jeff R.

Right you are, senior moment.

Best Regards
Tom.


....more of those every day, I'm finding...

:-|

--
Jeff R.

Working with Silver
 

....
Right you are, senior moment.

Best Regards
Tom.


...more of those every day, I'm finding...

I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will
get worse!

Karl

Working with Silver
 

You can't cast it directly into alum molds, the melting point of silver is
higher than that of aluminum.
The wax has a lot of shrinkage. Even with professional equipment, where the
wax is injected under pressure, you will still expect 5-7% shrinkage in the
final metal product. So casting wax into standard bullet molds will result
in a undersized bullet.
Turn machinable wax on the lathe to about 47 1/2 cal bullets and cast that.
30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy.
That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead.
If you were set up as a production caster, that might be a wholesale rate
for the casting alone, sans the monkeying around with the patterns.

Paul K. Dickman



"Tom Gardner" mars@tacks wrote in message
...
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I can
or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of doing
them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but what to
use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release to try. I
do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days. Unfortunately,
I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try the wet rag method.
Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth the trouble. I
should get better than two bullets to the ounce of silver. I do have a
couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of Sterling. I wonder which I
should use? I don't know if it makes a difference to Werewolves, does it?

Working with Silver
 

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
...
30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy.
That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead.
....

You're forgetting the "fun" part. Also the part about a challenge and
probably the acquiring a new skill. And reading between the lines, I
get the feeling that there's a favor-for-a-friend element.

Bob

Working with Silver
 

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:50:10 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
...
30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy.
That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead.
...

You're forgetting the "fun" part. Also the part about a challenge and
probably the acquiring a new skill. And reading between the lines, I
get the feeling that there's a favor-for-a-friend element.

Bob

I'll bet Tom is at the point in his life, like myself, where money is
no longer the prime motivator. I only do the stuff I want to do. if I
don't want to do it, there's not enough money in the world. If i do, a
few bucks over cost is fine.

Karl

Working with Silver
 

On Oct 1, 8:07*pm, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. *I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. *So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. *I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? *I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. *I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
* Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. *Any better ideas? *I did quote $30 each so it's
worth the trouble. *I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. *I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. *I wonder which I should use? *I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?

Do you have a vac pump? You could cast while pulling a vac from the
bottom. I used to do a lot of casting years ago. Still have both my
centrifugal and vac casting units but have done anything with them in
quite some time

Working with Silver
 

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:31:08 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

...
Right you are, senior moment.

Best Regards
Tom.


...more of those every day, I'm finding...

I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will
get worse!

Karl

I'd just forget about what he said if I were you.

Working with Silver
 

On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote:
//
Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite
mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour.
Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.

Best Regards
Tom.


Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and
velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need
provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead,
especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm.

Working with Silver
 

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:28:34 -0400, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:

On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote:
//
Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite
mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour.
Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.

Best Regards
Tom.


Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and
velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need
provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead,
especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm.

Lube? Use pig fat to make them more deadly and scary to things other
than werewolves. wink

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

Working with Silver
 

"Tom Gardner" mars@tacks wrote in message
...
On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote:
//
Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite
mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour.
Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.

Best Regards
Tom.


Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and
velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need
provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead,
especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm.


It's only about 8% lighter than pure lead. Less depending on the alloys on
the lead
Paul K. Dickman

Working with Silver
 

On 10/1/2011 11:02 PM, Steve W. wrote:

http://www.hurog.com/books/silver/silverbullet6.shtml

Looks like an oversized steel mold and some plaster would do the trick.

OR do it the easy way and cast small solid sections and turn them on a
lathe. Would likely result in a better round and truer weight and size.
I have turned solid copper bullets and once you have a pattern to grind
a tool from it works well. I used a plane blade and ground it to the
profile needed, then rough turned and finished with the custom blade.


Yep. I'm gonna' turn them!

Working with Silver
 

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:50:10 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
...
30 bucks ain't nearly enough. A 230 grain bullet is nearly 1/2 oz troy.
That means you are only making 15 bucks in labor and supplies and overhead.
...

You're forgetting the "fun" part. Also the part about a challenge and
probably the acquiring a new skill. And reading between the lines, I
get the feeling that there's a favor-for-a-friend element.

Bob
Using wax in your lead mould should not require any mold release just
warm the mould a wee bit and they should slide tight out. Put a
knotted thread in the end of the pour and you have something to help
pull it out - easy enough to remove before using the "plug"

Working with Silver
 

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 21:07:35 -0400, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:

I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's
worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?

Nobody's brought up that if you are making solid rounds you MUST
make a blended alloy of the silver to make it a lot softer, got to get
it down in the hardness neighborhood of the regular FMJ Lead bullet -
that means No Fine, Sterling or Coin Silver hard alloys.

The bullets have to be able to conform to the barrel rifling as they
make their way into the barrel, or the slug will hang in the forming
cone and you'll blow up the gun barrel (or blow up the cylinder, or
spit the bolt out the back in their face, or something else equally as
catastrophic) if somebody actually tries to fire these rounds.

And no matter how many liability releases you get signed by the
recipient, he can't control who grabs the rounds and tries to actually
run them through a live weapon - after all the shouting, it's all on
you if something goes seriously wrong...

Not to mention that if you end up with an alloy that has some lead,
tin, cadmium, etc. in it to soften up the silver (think Pewter
alloys...) that will stretch the silver, too.

A nice Hollowpoint that breaks up on impact should spread enough high
silver content fragments around the impact area to neutralize any
werewolves you might happen across.

Lost Wax investment casting is probably the only way to go - way too
much trouble to make a permanent casting mold for a one-off.

Save the sprues and trimmings, and make a few single molds to use up
the last few bits.

-- Bruce --

PS: I'm Baaaaaaack. ;-P Might regret it later, but looks like the
Asylum's still in full swing and the Inmates are still in charge...

Working with Silver
 

On Sunday, October 2, 2011 9:28:34 AM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote:
//
Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite
mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine.

Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and
velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need
provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead,
especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm.

It's necessary to use non-pure silver if you want to cast it; otherwise
the stuff spits. Sterling is usually (7.5 percent?) copper added to the
silver, and that's enough to stop spitting (something to do with
dissolved oxygen, I hear).

The same jewelry-supply places that sell silver shot, will have a
line of appropriate waxes and ceramic moldmaking items.
Your dentist probably knows a local shop that casts precious metals,
already, and you might save time by getting them to do the hot parts.

Working with Silver
 

I'd use sterling as it is likely a prize for someone.
A fine one would turn black faster won't it and be more expensive.

You know best - isn't sterling stronger ? less denting if a key chain or
such.

Sound neat idea.
Martin

On 10/1/2011 8:07 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's worth
the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?

Working with Silver
 

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote:
//
Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite
mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour.
Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.

Best Regards
Tom.


Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and
velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need
provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead,
especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm.

How does the hardness compare with a copper jacket?

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Telemark: If it was easy, they'd call it snowboarding.

Working with Silver
 

On 2011-10-02, Tom Gardner mars@tacks wrote:
I have a request for 20 Silver bullets in .45 caliber. I don't think I
can or should cast them directly in my Aluminum molds. So, I thought of
doing them with the lost wax method. I can cast the wax in my molds but
what to use as a mold release? I do have a graphite spray mold release
to try. I do have some casting wax left over from my Silversmith days.
Unfortunately, I do not have a centrifugal casting machine so I'll try
the wet rag method. Any better ideas? I did quote $30 each so it's
worth the trouble. I should get better than two bullets to the ounce of
silver. I do have a couple of pounds of fine and a couple pounds of
Sterling. I wonder which I should use? I don't know if it makes a
difference to Werewolves, does it?

Probably not -- but it may make a difference to the rifling in
the weapon. I believe that fine is softer than Sterling (and, of
course, more expensive).

Out of curiosity -- for .45 ACP or for the Colt single action
revolver? The extra grip in the barrel might make a difference in the
cycling of a model 1911. Quite a few shots may be needed to tune the
load to the weight of the bullet and the different friction
characteristics in the barrel.

Is the weight going to match that of one of the commercially
available lead bullets? With or without jacketing?

And are you sure it isn't for someone to play Lone Ranger
instead of protection from supernatural critters?

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Working with Silver
 

Tom Gardner mars@tacks on Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:28:34 -0400 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 10/1/2011 11:08 PM, azotic wrote:
//
Silver at $30 a troy ounce, them be some pricey projectiles. A graphite
mold made on a cnc mill would work just fine. Cast all 20 in one pour.
Don't forget to adjust the propellant for the heavier projectile.

Best Regards
Tom.


Silver's lighter than lead, I'll do the math to match pressure and
velocity using the lighter slugs. I like your mold idea but I'll need
provisions for some lube I think. Silver's a lot harder than lead,
especially if I use Sterling, mayme I won't need lube...hmmmm.

I've heard of using some kind of sabot, because silver being
harder than lead, it doesn't engaged the lands as well.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

Working with Silver
 

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
...

Are these for display or use?

Will the customer accept silver plating?

jsw

Working with Silver
 

On 10/2/2011 3:31 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will
get worse!

My dad says his memory is improving with age. Why, it's getting so good,
he remembers things that never even happened!


Jon

Working with Silver
 

On Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:11:36 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 10/2/2011 3:31 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

I told my dad my memory was getting bad. He said don't worry, it will
get worse!

My dad says his memory is improving with age. Why, it's getting so good,
he remembers things that never even happened!


The older I get, the better I was.



--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

Working with Silver
 

Martin Eastburn wrote:

I'd use sterling as it is likely a prize for someone.
A fine one would turn black faster won't it and be more expensive.

Other way around. Sterling Tarnishes a whole lot more than fine, fine
hardly tarnishes at all.

FIn is usually softer, as cast, but both work harden a LOT.
jk

Working with Silver
 

On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:51:20 -0700, jk wrote:

Martin Eastburn wrote:

I'd use sterling as it is likely a prize for someone.
A fine one would turn black faster won't it and be more expensive.

Other way around. Sterling Tarnishes a whole lot more than fine, fine
hardly tarnishes at all.

FIn is usually softer, as cast, but both work harden a LOT.

I wonder if it would still work on vampires^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwerewolves if
you coated the silver bullets with EverBrite?

--
We are always the same age inside.
-- Gertrude Stein